Comments on: Condescension and leaving the political fold http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/ Mon, 21 May 2012 07:53:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: NYCnative http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-328847 NYCnative Sat, 10 Mar 2012 08:53:41 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-328847 oops.. that was boast of kicking the Jews into the sea.. but you get the picture.. and not leave them to be wolves, but leave them TO the the wolves.. sorry. typing too fast.. One addition to my comment is the question to those who blame Bush for rushing to war and making stuff up.. what WAS he supposed to do after he and the UN itself called for Saddam to disclose or disarm? How could we not hold him to account, especially after 9/11? He couldn't, WE couldn't, plain and simple, he could not back down. It was what needed to be done and I feel was long over due. In the Iraq Liberation Act CLINTON signed into law the reasons for Saddams removal were clear, and YES, the attempted assassination of a US President, Bush 1 WAS reason enough.. So what it was his father, it doesn't change the facts, father or not, it was just one of the reasons. They all were reason enough for me. I don't think GWB should have went back to the UN to authorize use of force.. he had all the authority he needed and HE did go to Congress.. If use of force isn't going to war, using the force of the US military, I don't know what use of force would be. I never liked Hillary but I did appreciate the fact that she didn't shy away from her vote, stating clearly that she based her decision on advice from her own husbands people and not only on what was given to her by GWB. For once she did the right thing. oops.. that was boast of kicking the Jews into the sea.. but you get the picture.. and not leave them to be wolves, but leave them TO the the wolves.. sorry. typing too fast..

One addition to my comment is the question to those who blame Bush for rushing to war and making stuff up.. what WAS he supposed to do after he and the UN itself called for Saddam to disclose or disarm? How could we not hold him to account, especially after 9/11? He couldn’t, WE couldn’t, plain and simple, he could not back down. It was what needed to be done and I feel was long over due. In the Iraq Liberation Act CLINTON signed into law the reasons for Saddams removal were clear, and YES, the attempted assassination of a US President, Bush 1 WAS reason enough.. So what it was his father, it doesn’t change the facts, father or not, it was just one of the reasons. They all were reason enough for me. I don’t think GWB should have went back to the UN to authorize use of force.. he had all the authority he needed and HE did go to Congress.. If use of force isn’t going to war, using the force of the US military, I don’t know what use of force would be. I never liked Hillary but I did appreciate the fact that she didn’t shy away from her vote, stating clearly that she based her decision on advice from her own husbands people and not only on what was given to her by GWB. For once she did the right thing.

]]> By: NYCnative http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-328841 NYCnative Sat, 10 Mar 2012 08:29:32 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-328841 Although my family were Conservatives, I began hanging out with liberals, musicians, artists in my younger years. I was not following politics but ended up helping evacuate the WTC during the 93 bombing and believed my country was doing everything it could to keep us safe. All we heard throughout the 90s from Clinton was how dangerous Saddam was and what a threat he was to the US and the world. I knew enough about the containment policy to understand that it was a failed policy, that shooting at our planes was an act of war and wished the US would stop the madness of trying to protect the entire Middle East from him and finally do what we should have done after the 1st Gulf War. After 9/11 I realized that war was being waged against us the entire time yet we refused to accept it and did nothing about it. What happens "over there" sure does affect us here at home. I can understand people wanted to go the sanctions, hoping that would work. I watched as both parties signed off on Afghanistan and how the UN for one of the ony times I can remember agreed unanimously that Saddam should disclose or disarm. After giving that kind of demand, why would they then refuse to "use force"? Of course people have selective memories... Most of the countries were actually doing business with Iraq under the radar. The oil for food program was one of the biggest FAILED policies of all time and THAT was about to be voted on to end because the rhetoric about how that policy itself was starving little children. No mention that Saddam was the one starving little children with his defiance and tyrannical rule. I watched as the left, the Democrats gave aid and comfort to the enemy by spinning their decision to use force to condemn GWB! He must have lied! Forget about the fact that the UN itself was one entity that documented the stockpiles of WMD being there in the first place. Never-mind that more than one intelligence agency warned Saddam may use them. I didn't vote for GWB the first time but I woke up from my liberal sleep and finally began to see the Democrats for what they really were and they have proved to me every chance they get that they are the ones who would do anything, slander anyone for political gain. It began with the chad fiasco. Even though I didn't vote for Bush, I saw how the Democrats only wanted to recount the votes in selective areas but not the areas in which it looked as though the recount could give Bush additional votes. The should have asked for a Statewide recount, that I would have agreed with. I've come full circle, back to the fold of my families politics and will never again be fooled by those who say they work for the little guy, the working man and the CHILDREN of course. If the label NeoCon fits because I agreed with taking out Saddam, then by all means, I am the same as you.. A Neo NeoCon. If only we had stayed united after 9/11. Iran is the biggest exporter of terrorism, they are the ones financing Hamas, Hezzbolah, were killing our troops in Iraq and boost about pushing the Israelis into the sea, murdering innocent women and children. If we stayed united we would have shown the world that we were serious, that we will finish what we started and Iran wouldn't be so bold, they may have gone the way of Libya, giving up their dreams of becoming a nuclear power. Maybe the people of the Middle East would trust that we wouldn't leave them to be wolves, to the brutal evil doers and maybe one day realizing the dream of being free.. Liberty and loving freedom is in the hearts of all men.. too bad we couldn't be the one country on the planet to help that along. Could you imagine if we started by taking out Saddam after kicking him out of Kuwait? Security does not end at our borders. We are not the "policemen of the world" when we stand with allies and against despots, it is our heads that they want in the end. How could we have let the pre 9/11 mentality rule the day once more? It is a sad day when we don't realize that the war will NOT end just because the American people have grown tired and sick of fighting in foreign lands.. that is what the enemies of freedom are counting on. Although my family were Conservatives, I began hanging out with liberals, musicians, artists in my younger years. I was not following politics but ended up helping evacuate the WTC during the 93 bombing and believed my country was doing everything it could to keep us safe. All we heard throughout the 90s from Clinton was how dangerous Saddam was and what a threat he was to the US and the world. I knew enough about the containment policy to understand that it was a failed policy, that shooting at our planes was an act of war and wished the US would stop the madness of trying to protect the entire Middle East from him and finally do what we should have done after the 1st Gulf War.

After 9/11 I realized that war was being waged against us the entire time yet we refused to accept it and did nothing about it. What happens “over there” sure does affect us here at home. I can understand people wanted to go the sanctions, hoping that would work. I watched as both parties signed off on Afghanistan and how the UN for one of the ony times I can remember agreed unanimously that Saddam should disclose or disarm. After giving that kind of demand, why would they then refuse to “use force”? Of course people have selective memories… Most of the countries were actually doing business with Iraq under the radar. The oil for food program was one of the biggest FAILED policies of all time and THAT was about to be voted on to end because the rhetoric about how that policy itself was starving little children. No mention that Saddam was the one starving little children with his defiance and tyrannical rule. I watched as the left, the Democrats gave aid and comfort to the enemy by spinning their decision to use force to condemn GWB! He must have lied! Forget about the fact that the UN itself was one entity that documented the stockpiles of WMD being there in the first place. Never-mind that more than one intelligence agency warned Saddam may use them.

I didn’t vote for GWB the first time but I woke up from my liberal sleep and finally began to see the Democrats for what they really were and they have proved to me every chance they get that they are the ones who would do anything, slander anyone for political gain. It began with the chad fiasco. Even though I didn’t vote for Bush, I saw how the Democrats only wanted to recount the votes in selective areas but not the areas in which it looked as though the recount could give Bush additional votes. The should have asked for a Statewide recount, that I would have agreed with. I’ve come full circle, back to the fold of my families politics and will never again be fooled by those who say they work for the little guy, the working man and the CHILDREN of course. If the label NeoCon fits because I agreed with taking out Saddam, then by all means, I am the same as you.. A Neo NeoCon.

If only we had stayed united after 9/11. Iran is the biggest exporter of terrorism, they are the ones financing Hamas, Hezzbolah, were killing our troops in Iraq and boost about pushing the Israelis into the sea, murdering innocent women and children. If we stayed united we would have shown the world that we were serious, that we will finish what we started and Iran wouldn’t be so bold, they may have gone the way of Libya, giving up their dreams of becoming a nuclear power. Maybe the people of the Middle East would trust that we wouldn’t leave them to be wolves, to the brutal evil doers and maybe one day realizing the dream of being free.. Liberty and loving freedom is in the hearts of all men.. too bad we couldn’t be the one country on the planet to help that along. Could you imagine if we started by taking out Saddam after kicking him out of Kuwait?

Security does not end at our borders. We are not the “policemen of the world” when we stand with allies and against despots, it is our heads that they want in the end. How could we have let the pre 9/11 mentality rule the day once more? It is a sad day when we don’t realize that the war will NOT end just because the American people have grown tired and sick of fighting in foreign lands.. that is what the enemies of freedom are counting on.

]]> By: Ron http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-319466 Ron Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:06:35 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-319466 I stumbled upon your blog a few years ago and am so pleased that I did. As I read through the negative comments . . . all I sense is hatred, jealousy and envy. And most of these people are Godless. While I can understand the problems one may have with religion . . . God IS THERE. A first cousin, by marriage, went out of her way to tell me that GWB is a stupid man. Excuse me, Is he still President (in 2012)? After which I said to her, God is laughing at all the stupid things that are being said and at the way humans are behaving. When I mentioned God, there was this "hollow" "vacant" look in her eyes. Wishing you good health and a long life (we need you out there). I enjoy your posts immensely. Oh, and not because I agree with everything you write but because you make me think. And for that, I thank you! I stumbled upon your blog a few years ago and am so pleased that I did.

As I read through the negative comments . . . all I sense is hatred, jealousy and envy.

And most of these people are Godless. While I can understand the problems one may have with religion . . . God IS THERE.

A first cousin, by marriage, went out of her way to tell me that GWB is a stupid man. Excuse me, Is he still President (in 2012)? After which I said to her, God is laughing at all the stupid things that are being said and at the way humans are behaving. When I mentioned God, there was this “hollow” “vacant” look in her eyes.

Wishing you good health and a long life (we need you out there). I enjoy your posts immensely. Oh, and not because I agree with everything you write but because you make me think. And for that, I thank you!

]]> By: JIM http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-312696 JIM Fri, 03 Feb 2012 09:42:02 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-312696 Bush wasted trillions on a War in the FOG of Cheney antics. It was all useless, and caused no good, to America. But, I am glad, Osama is ( DEAD ON ARRIVAl of SEAL T/ 6). You seem bright, and a very good observer of the world. Ron Paul seems to bug people, in select circles. But, I wonder if so many are clueless whey so many IRAQ combat Vets support RON PAUL ?? Bush wasted trillions on a War in the FOG of Cheney antics.
It was all useless, and caused no good, to America.
But, I am glad, Osama is ( DEAD ON ARRIVAl of SEAL T/ 6).
You seem bright, and a very good observer of the world.
Ron Paul seems to bug people, in select circles.
But, I wonder if so many are clueless whey so many IRAQ combat Vets support RON PAUL ??

]]> By: Roy Conant http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-259424 Roy Conant Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:57:18 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-259424 Oh, I did and mostly I found a litany of tired red herrings used by folks who, rather than critiquing and critically assessing, are content to ridicule someone who is. For example: “America has been very good to you, Joe. If you like Russia so much, why don’t you just move there?” To which I might well reply to the neo-cons today (who, by the way are mostly bigoted, white, and well-off): "This is America today, love it or leave it." As though a trite litany of the mindless euphemisms employed by the reactionaries of my youth (those mostly distraught by the passage of the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts) are really useful in any analysis. But, perhaps you learned otherwise in your family counseling classes... My suggestion would be that you engage in a disciplined analysis of your discourse and from there attempt to employ some dialectical discursive analysis. But, like most neo-cons and neo-con apologists, I rather suspect you won't... :-) P.s. I'm posting this dialogue to my Facebook account for the amusement of my FB friends from across the political spectrum -- Hope you don't mind... lol Oh, I did and mostly I found a litany of tired red herrings used by folks who, rather than critiquing and critically assessing, are content to ridicule someone who is. For example: “America has been very good to you, Joe. If you like Russia so much, why don’t you just move there?”

To which I might well reply to the neo-cons today (who, by the way are mostly bigoted, white, and well-off): “This is America today, love it or leave it.”

As though a trite litany of the mindless euphemisms employed by the reactionaries of my youth (those mostly distraught by the passage of the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts) are really useful in any analysis. But, perhaps you learned otherwise in your family counseling classes…

My suggestion would be that you engage in a disciplined analysis of your discourse and from there attempt to employ some dialectical discursive analysis. But, like most neo-cons and neo-con apologists, I rather suspect you won’t… :-)

P.s. I’m posting this dialogue to my Facebook account for the amusement of my FB friends from across the political spectrum — Hope you don’t mind… lol

]]> By: neo-neocon http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-259423 neo-neocon Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:43:48 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-259423 Roy Conant: well, I guess you didn't look very hard. On the right sidebar, under "categories," the very first one is called "A mind is a difficult thing to change: my change story." <a href="http://neoneocon.com/category/a-mind-is-a-difficult-thing-to-change/" rel="nofollow">Click on it</a>, scroll down to the bottom, and start reading the explanatory tome in chronological order. Roy Conant: well, I guess you didn’t look very hard.

On the right sidebar, under “categories,” the very first one is called “A mind is a difficult thing to change: my change story.” Click on it, scroll down to the bottom, and start reading the explanatory tome in chronological order.

]]> By: Roy Conant http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-259420 Roy Conant Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:28:29 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-259420 It's funny how one side castigates the other for essentially irrational and inexplicable political beliefs. While asserting you have left the fold and have been ostracized, you provide no concrete analysis of the events and circumstances of your conversion. Can it be your conversion was motivated by an inability to articulate and rationalize a discomfitting cognitive dissonance between who you really are and who you professed to be? If so, welcome to the world of the neo-cons whose bluster and bravado, loneliness, and inability to find or embrace innovative solutions to persistent problems cause them to solve their social/political schizophrenia by finding common cause with subsuming themselves in the quaking jelly of fearful reactionaries whose solutions lie in a mythically ideal and non-existent past. When I began reading your blog about becoming a neo-neocon, I thought I might find a disciplined dialectic.... It’s funny how one side castigates the other for essentially irrational and inexplicable political beliefs. While asserting you have left the fold and have been ostracized, you provide no concrete analysis of the events and circumstances of your conversion. Can it be your conversion was motivated by an inability to articulate and rationalize a discomfitting cognitive dissonance between who you really are and who you professed to be?

If so, welcome to the world of the neo-cons whose bluster and bravado, loneliness, and inability to find or embrace innovative solutions to persistent problems cause them to solve their social/political schizophrenia by finding common cause with subsuming themselves in the quaking jelly of fearful reactionaries whose solutions lie in a mythically ideal and non-existent past.

When I began reading your blog about becoming a neo-neocon, I thought I might find a disciplined dialectic….

]]> By: John Romeo http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-249995 John Romeo Mon, 06 Jun 2011 14:22:44 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-249995 An Individual changes sides only when they act against their own best interest. Everyone is on a different side of most issues. Left and Right are narratives of grouping. We the people are each sovereign nations of one. We have a constitution because we disagree, not because we agree. If you read the constitution you will not see one word in the document about political parties; left or right; conservative or liberal. This is because we are all on one side: The side of individual liberty. Therefore, with respect to politics, I am only on the side of a constitutional government limits power. Since Presidents, members of Congress, and Judges all swear to uphold the constitution and don't, make them all Benedict Arnolds. Changing your view makes you a good American. Forcing your view on others is tyranny. Is your friend a friend when they want to force you to accept the government takeover of the banks, GM and Healthcare and trillions of dollars of debt. A wise old line from a blues song says, "If you watch your good friends real carefully your enemies can't do you no harm." John Romeo An Individual changes sides only when they act against their own best interest. Everyone is on a different side of most issues. Left and Right are narratives of grouping. We the people are each sovereign nations of one.

We have a constitution because we disagree, not because we agree. If you read the constitution you will not see one word in the document about political parties; left or right; conservative or liberal.

This is because we are all on one side: The side of individual liberty. Therefore, with respect to politics, I am only on the side of a constitutional government limits power.

Since Presidents, members of Congress, and Judges all swear to uphold the constitution and don’t, make them all Benedict Arnolds. Changing your view makes you a good American. Forcing your view on others is tyranny.

Is your friend a friend when they want to force you to accept the government takeover of the banks, GM and Healthcare and trillions of dollars of debt. A wise old line from a blues song says, “If you watch your good friends real carefully your enemies can’t do you no harm.”

John Romeo

]]> By: South San Diego http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-247965 South San Diego Tue, 24 May 2011 07:17:15 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-247965 Hey, I can do <b>bold lettering</b> too! Hahahahahaha. Hey, I can do bold lettering too! Hahahahahaha.

]]> By: South San Diego http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/28/condescension-and-leaving-political/#comment-247961 South San Diego Tue, 24 May 2011 07:00:50 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/03/condescension-and-leaving-political.html#comment-247961 Commissars? Hahahahahaha. Red-baiting is so 20th century! Dude, the Modern Era ended with the Cold War. Now why on Earth would we listen to you, the "powers that be", the SEIU fossils, or the North Koreans who constitute the oppressor class? Some self-reflective speculation there, Ymarsaker! We are the free workers - you see us in the Solidarność movement against the Communists, in the streets of Seattle against the corporatists, in kibbutzes and anarchist collectives, in womens/worker/immigrant cooperatives. We make decentralizing (and yes, money-making) tools like Facebook, Twitter, and the blog system that you use. We simply tire of middle-class neo-Modernists prancing around our neighborhoods pretending to know us better than we do, beating us upside the head with ideology... and irresponsibly retreat to their comfortable worlds while we clean up their mess. If any ax-grinding is gonna take place today, this surely would be the most obvious. We are young, glib, versatile, multilingual, ideologically flexible, and rightfully pissed off about the irresponsible Boomers (both hippies and teabaggers) who continue to hog the microphone and want to turn my century into another ideological fight. Look you of the upper/middle classes: we hold you in high regard and enjoy you... but we don't trust you. Nothing personal... we learn from experience. Stop consuming us to validate yourselves. And pay attention. Commissars? Hahahahahaha. Red-baiting is so 20th century! Dude, the Modern Era ended with the Cold War. Now why on Earth would we listen to you, the “powers that be”, the SEIU fossils, or the North Koreans who constitute the oppressor class? Some self-reflective speculation there, Ymarsaker!

We are the free workers – you see us in the Solidarność movement against the Communists, in the streets of Seattle against the corporatists, in kibbutzes and anarchist collectives, in womens/worker/immigrant cooperatives. We make decentralizing (and yes, money-making) tools like Facebook, Twitter, and the blog system that you use.

We simply tire of middle-class neo-Modernists prancing around our neighborhoods pretending to know us better than we do, beating us upside the head with ideology… and irresponsibly retreat to their comfortable worlds while we clean up their mess. If any ax-grinding is gonna take place today, this surely would be the most obvious.

We are young, glib, versatile, multilingual, ideologically flexible, and rightfully pissed off about the irresponsible Boomers (both hippies and teabaggers) who continue to hog the microphone and want to turn my century into another ideological fight.

Look you of the upper/middle classes: we hold you in high regard and enjoy you… but we don’t trust you. Nothing personal… we learn from experience. Stop consuming us to validate yourselves. And pay attention.

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