The war did cause the communists to know we were serious about resisting their expansion, and I think limited their expansion elsewhere. If we had won perhaps more people in Vietnam would thank their ancestors practically every day for their decision to emigrate there. Instead over a million people were killed in that region after the war, and had to live under those regimes for 30+ years. If the Nazis had won, there is a very good chance they would not still be in power in France, that does not somehow make their occupation acceptable.

The cultural shift would have happened anyway around some other event because the boomers were coming of age and were going to change the culture dramatically, but the JFK assassination was the marking point of the dividing line.

Actually, that’s exactly what you did say at the time.

“… it’s still a nice fantasy sometimes. I know we could never “really” abandon them to their fates.”

Nice to know you realize their fates and ours are intertwined. And just what’s your problem with the French, anyway? Get over it.

As for Vietnam, considering the millenium of enmity between China and Vietnam, maybe we shouldn’t have been so eager to assume that the “Chinese backed Communists” would be such a threat to us. After all, most of NV’s aid was from Russia, who had their own problems with China. And they won, and now look – they want to be capitalists. So what was the war about if not poorly thought out policy options based on foolish ignorance of geography and history?

You said: “As for the day dream of Germany invading France, don’t you think that might have repercussions for the USA if they did?”

Yeah, probably. But it’s still a nice fantasy sometimes. I know we could never “really” abandon them to their fates.

But you bring up another point that I find interesting. You said: “Look at how people talk of the Vietnam War, for example. It still makes many powerful people blush with embarrassment that we lost it, instead of wondering why we were there, and if there is anything reasonable we could have done differently.”

The reason we were there was because Kennedy and Johnson were unwilling to abandon Southern Vietnam to the Chinese backed communists. The reason we lost was because they didn’t have the stomach for a real war and they tried to control the scale of it. Unfortunately, when you go at things piecemeal, and place limitations on your military that prevent them from winning (do not bomb in the north? do not go into Cambodia when that is where the enemies supply line is?) is it any surprise we lost?

While I don’t agree with the way the war was waged, and I am definitely not a fan of Kennedy or Johnson, I think what they “wanted” to do was the right thing. We shouldn’t have abandoned the south to the communists any more than we should abandon the French to the Germans.

What should we have done? Well, we only had two choices: do nothing or… go to war to win. Sanctions and Diplomacy weren’t going to do a damn thing in that situation.

“Limited Warfare” is the worst option and always will be. Anytime you try to limit the scope of conflict, the best option for your opponent is to escalate matters. This is for two reasons: 1) you’re not prepared for it. 2) It’s not what you want.

As for the comment:

-America wasn’t (and, as far as I can tell, mostly still isn’t) in “a very privileged” part of history — just in “a relatively decent and sane” part.-

Well, if the rest of the world is sunk in Hobbesian brutality, isn’t it a bit of a “privilege” to inhabit a “decent and sane” part of it? Quibble with the word if you like, but I thank my ancestors practically every day for their decision to emmigrate here. I can’t begin to list the places I’m glad I DON’T live, even if I had a comparable socio-economic position there. Pakistan, Uganda, Kazahkstan, India, China,Brazil…I’ll take my privileges gladly.

America wasn’t (and, as far as I can tell, mostly still isn’t) in “a very privileged” part of history — just in “a relatively decent and sane” part.

Which isn’t going to keep a lot of people from whingeing about You Spoiled Americans Just Don’t Get The World’s Angst, of course.

Anyhoo. I was too young to see, let alone remember, the Kennedy assassination. But I’m just barely old enough to remember it (and the murders of MLK and RFK, five years later) casting a long dark shadow over American politics in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The assassinations of the 1960s did, indeed, induce radical despair in a way that’s difficult to recapture now without either memory or considerable historical imagination.

Yes, you’re right about the mental priorities of people, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, but when one begins to make statements about philosophy, politics, or policy, presumably one is trying to think rationally, and this means making an effort to think in ways that might not be the same old same old of everyday. Otherwise, who would care to listen?

Is it only the Left that rants about what we should do in the rest of the world? I think not. Some ‘conservatives’ would like to bomb the hell of some places, invade others, subsidize politicians in still others, and pressure yet others on their family planning policy. I don’t begrudge them the right to try to do that, I just don’t like their policies.

As for the day dream of Germany invading France, don’t you think that might have repercussions for the USA if they did? If Iraq was a threat, well, then…?

Either we decide to think straight when we think, or we just rant and rave. Take your pick.