Home » Has this special counsel/prosecutor thing gotten out of hand?

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Has this special counsel/prosecutor thing gotten out of hand? — 12 Comments

  1. It is confusing apples and oranges to compare Bill Clinton to Scooter Libby. The former president obviously committed perjury when he claimed not to have engaged in sex with Monica Lewinsky. Nobody was concerned about the color of her dress or the exact dates of the sexual encounters. Libby was asked nitpicky details that anyone could easily forget.

  2. We have no way of evaluating the Juanita B charges at this point. With the background of the Whitewater slanders as a guide I have to consign them to the dustbin of politically motivated slander.

    Also in the that dustbin next to the Whitewater charges are the charges about Cheney and Halliburton a bunch of stuff about Al Franken and a radio station.

    The whole Paula Jones/Lewinsky phenomenon was an attempt to bring down an elected President and diverted the attention of the whole country, especially the media, from real issues like the growth of terrorism.

    When you look at the failures of the media and the Congress to even attempt to put pressure on al Queda when it was growing you get a sense of the seriousness of the diversion. Clinton mentioned terrorism in nearly every speech he gave as President and yet was prevented from doing anything about it. The press yammered on about “Wag the Dog” as if they knew anything at all, which they don’t. Except that sex sells.

    Idiots like Bob Barr and Cindy Sheehan are allowed to set the nations agenda because they and the media treat everything as a personal game. How else could somebody like George W Bush get even nominated by the Republican party?

  3. The fear of embarrassment argument doesn’t make a bit of sense. In most areas of the country, Scooter Libby would have no fear of being convicted. Unfortunately, we must remember that his trial will take place in Washington, DC. The twelve jurors will likely be predominantly black. There’s an ugly truth that few are willing to confront: black racism is alive and well in large cities like Detroit and Washington, DC. A white Republican may be in serious jeopardy because of the color of his skin.

  4. I find myself agreeing that the special prosecutor idea has jumped the shark. It seems their investigations all turn out to be an inquisition looking for a crime. In the Clinton case and the Plame case, it devolved into wandering around hell’s half acre looking for something – anything – that could be used to bring charges.

    I’m terribly amused by the hypocrisy on both sides of the political aisle, too. All of a sudden, prosecuting perjury is the most important thing in the world to many Democrats, and no big deal to many Republicans. Seems like a switch from a few years ago.

    For the record, I feel the same way about both. Republicans went way overboard with Clinton, and Democrats are doing the same with the Libby indictment.

    I’m sick of all of this crap. Aren’t we in a war or something?

  5. I am sick of all of these special prosecutors and non-scandals. I just wish we could just erase all that stuff from the public discourse and really get down to the ideas that drive politics and policy.

  6. OK, I’m oversimplifying, but it seems to me that Libby lied about telling the truth. Clinton lied about trying to rig a trial.

  7. “You may also recall that the motive for Clinton’s lie in that case about his relations with Lewinsky–which, unlike Libby’s alleged lies, did not even involve official conduct–was clearly and indisputably the desire to avoid personal embarrassment.”

    Not to be contrary for the sake of contrariness Neo but, that statement could hardly be further from the truth. In addition to questions about Juanita Broadrick as pointed out by michael b, qeustions about that woman, Ms. Lewinski were posed in order to establish a pattern of conduct – a pattern that, if proved, would substantiate the Paula Jones lawsuit. So his motivation for lying was the most common of anyone in a courtroom: trying to beat the rap.

    Also, Joe Wilson may say he’s going to sue, but its just more posturing on his part. Paula Jones’ attorneys had to prove to a judge initially that they had a reasonable probability of building a case with merit – which they did. The Supreme Court business was just a diversion attempt by Clinton’s attorneys that didn’t work. Wilson hasn’t very much chance of finding a court that will hear him.

  8. Hi Neo,

    I guess I more less agree with you on this, except for the following.

    In 1993, in the wake of Anita Hill, congress passed a law stating that any person who is on trial for sexual harrassment must provide a list of all sexual partners in the last xx years. Bill Clinton signed that law into affect, in effect, catching himself in a law he approved. I would have had an ounce of sympathy for the guy, if he had later said that was a bad law and should be repealed. Its still on the books, I believe.

    Joe Wilson will have a hard time suing the president, as discovery will show everything he did, and when he told lies. None of the things that the White House said about him have since been discredited. The main point of the investigation was about White House officials telling the truth about his wife’s identity. Proving any sort of damages for that would be tough.

    James

  9. I think eventually both sides will reach an agreement not to pursue it anymore- it’s too dangerous. It will be like the price wars between Coke and Pepsi. It didn’t take long before both sides realized it would ruin them, so one company re-raised the price, and the other followed suit.

  10. I think your analysis is accurate, even if I’m not a lawyer nor interested specifically in law.

    The United States should not believe in the illusion that just because people are in legal trouble at the White House, means that the government is more honest and accountable.

    Unfortunately, all too many citizens do. And that is why it will keep going. Just like all too many citizens like big punitive damages.

    In a normal world, the consequences of these actions would bite us very soon. But this is not a normal world, this world has far too much Order in it to be normal. Therefore the consequences are delayed… by decades even. Far past the time when those “decision makers” are in their prime.

    The previous generation, like vietnam, then tends to offload the consequences of their actions onto the next generation.

    Which is not very just nor healthy.

  11. Can one plead the 5th if there is no under-lying crime for which self-incrimination may be a consideration? Or to avoid embarrassment?

  12. “You may also recall that the motive for Clinton’s lie in that case about his relations with Lewinsky–which, unlike Libby’s alleged lies, did not even involve official conduct–was clearly and indisputably the desire to avoid personal embarrassment.”

    Yes, clearly and indisputably. But other critical things were – clearly and indisputably – involved as well, and there’s the rub. Additionally, it’s no mere sophistry or prudery to note this, despite the memory hole repetition promulgated by the MSM and others that it was, merely, “all about sex”.

    Juanita Broaddrick’s physical assault and rape plays a critical role.

    And what was at work in SCOTUS’s 9-0 decision, the civil case, the Grand Jury’s investigation and Clinton’s 200+ “I don’t recall” responses, etc. was, in addition to “the desire to avoid personal embarrassment,” was also about avoiding discoveries, such as Juanita Broaddrick, which were sought to help substantiate and help forward the civil suit per se (hence also the questioning vis-a-vis Lewinsky). Forget the remainder, ascribe everything else as secondary or prudery or partisanship, etc., but Juanita Broaddrick’s assault and rape as supportive evidence and as an episode in and of itself should not have been categorized and dismissed under the rubric of, with everything else, “it was all about sex”.

    A tangled web, yes, and one the congress, the courts and the public will ultimately decide, but some considerations do deserve more weight than others.

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