He should have said
‘Now watch this put…’

Grrr Kerry! I could tear him apart with my bare hands!!!!!The arrogant bastard!!!!

No, seriously to be a politician, you need charisma, or luck, Kerry has neither in the required amount.

You enter every discussion with an overt agenda. To do so as a therapist would be very destructive to your clients. My guess is that if you actually are a therapist you have got to be as incompetent as the government you support.

Why are liberals so hot to stifle everyone else’s freedom of speech?

The Army can use you, Mark.

It’s nice to see Mark enter every discussion with an open mind and no agenda, his opinions are always unpredictable and surprising. If we all could achieve such levels of dispassionate inquiry the world would be a far different place.

I just spent a number of posts dealing with him accusing me of saying something that he read into what I wrote, which was never there, and then he demanded I explain myself. He can’t read anything straight, it’s all twisted with by weight of his emotional baggage.

He has an interior dialog that he projects on others. It leaves you in a Kafka fog.

Or he has no integrity.

It it almost entirely a generational divide on Iraq.

The dippy old hipsters on the losing side of history (again).

I wish the Baby Boomers would get over Vietnam so we could fight the Mohammedans….

“divide is between right wing US christians and the rational world.” That’s the kind of response you can expect from the rigid, dogmatic atheists I despise. They give atheism, as well as rational thought, a bad name. What a maroon.

No offense to any of you, but the guy is no different than the fire-and-brimstone, the-word-of-God-is-what-I-say-it-is, religionists.

As for atheism - which has nothing to do with the discussion but seems to keep working its way in - I guess with any belief system, there are “live and let live” folks and there are “activists” who aren’t happy unless they’re changing the world to suit themselves. A sensible atheist might accept reality and just study Christianity and other religions as cultural artifacts rather than damning them as genocide-inducing mental illnesses. Ariel seems pretty sensible to me.

As to someone who’d disown their child… what are the chances that they’d disown them for acting against their wishes in some other way, chosing the wrong profession or the wrong spouse? If there is one “escape” the military is especially good for, it’s getting away from home in a way that can’t be undone by family bullying or histrionics or financial blackmail.

There aren’t a lot of those escapees in the military, but there are a few.

You nailed it. That’s why I pointed out his rigid, dogmatic version of Atheism, usually a sign of immaturity or extreme, suppressed anger. But to make such an irrational, hate-filled comment shows he has deeper problems. As I said earlier, I felt like a protagonist in a Kafka story, dealing with his projection of meaning onto anything I wrote.

Anyway, as an atheist I am ashamed of his type or kind or whatever word doesn’t have some secret-handshake meaning. I used to feel the same way about Madalyn Murray O’Hair. Oddly, she was a very nice person when you met her off the podium.

I will do my best to let it go know.

Put the crack pipe down and walk slowly away from the keyboard.

mark is a fine example of the left at it’s “best”. All full of stupidity, irrational anger bordering on the psychotic, hatred and presumptious assumptions. If anyone is in need of psychological help it is you, mark. Get some before you end up hurting yourself or others.

One other thing…

Riddle me this, mark.

Where in that article did it say that the son was a “right wing US christian”?

To do so as a therapist would be very destructive to your clients.

If fake liberals stopped going to the therapist every day, they might not have anything to complain about.

Cause they actually like goose stepping in jackboots.

I would also like to point out that the example, neo-neocon started off with is once again of a “liberal” throwing out and not speaking to someone he perceives as being “rightwing”. Since we were bombed on 9/11 and this whole debate started, I have yet to see a rightwing person, a Republican, or a war supporter refuse to speak to a Democrat. But I have seen LOTS of “liberals” striking out verbally and physically at Republicans (or war-supporters), and when that doesn’t work, striking us from their social lists.

I wonder if that’s out of frustration that they can’t martial enough facts to make a lucid argument, or if they actually *do* see us as baby-killers (like anti-abortionists see abortion-rights supporters) or why there is such an over-the-top reaction.

Finally, I’d like to point out that in the family being discussed, the son is not welcome in the “parent’s house”. What does that say about the mother? Has she been beat into submission by the maniac father, or does she, too, reject her soldier son? Is she related to Cindy Sheehan by any chance, if she does?

Interesting point though, but thankfully we can disagree on matters…

so Neoneo I hope you are not actually banning Mark from posting, I mean it is amusing at least.

LOL Maybe you could edit his posts like Yossarian in the beginning of Catch 22…
but just the ‘profanity’ (even though Im partial to it…) ma’am not the substantials…but it’s your universe, just giving you a maladroit mischievous troll’s perspective…I should change my name to Loki…hmmm to get in touch with my roots too…

The Army can use you, Mark.”
-George

Mark could use the Army. Not sure they’d take him, though.

that’s a good first step…at least you’re honest with yourself…

In general, the more eloquent and smart the blog, the more it draws screaming trolls. Some of the dis-agreers here are not trolls and can marshal a decent argument.

I leave it to my fellow commentators to list their “favorite” trolls.

We have such a wide choice…

BY MARK STEYN Sun-Times Columnist

My face time with John Kerry has been brief but choice. In 2003, I was at a campaign event in New Hampshire chatting with two old coots in plaid. The senator approached and stopped in front of us. The etiquette in primary season is that the candidate defers to the cranky Granite Stater’s churlish indifference to status and initiates the conversation: “Hi, I’m John Kerry. Good to see ya. Cold enough for ya? How ’bout them Sox?” Etc. Instead, Kerry just stood there nose to nose, staring at us with an inscrutable semi-glare on his face. After an eternity, an aide stepped out from behind him and said, “The senator needs you to move.”

“Well, why couldn’t he have said that?” muttered one of the old coots. Why indeed?

As a lifelong conservative I want to encourage you to hang in there. Though you may not agree with every conservative issue, your clear thinking is needed to win the GWOT, in which my son currently fights.

So I salute your bravery.

I always enjoy your posts, and I just have to ask…are you writing from Russia? Naturally, you don’t have to answer if this will get your head chopped off or some such, but I’d really like to know.

One reason I’m addicted to the internet is that the people posting on it are so far-flung.

Thanks for your reply.

It is unclear you understand his intended meaning. Right - that’s us alright. We’re just as dumb as the soljers stuk in Irak.

Is this a “father-son” divide?

I’m not certain, but it does seem to be a clear divide. What I’m unsure is entirely clear is if the younger generation has a more favorable view of military service than their parents *in general*. It may be more cases of individual disagreement, most young people *agreeing* with their parents.

As for Kerry’s gaffe. I don’t know how it could be taken out of context because the context is very clearly that he’s telling students to study hard and try to be smart so as to avoid this “thing”. If he mispoke the “thing” doesn’t matter all that much. The couplet is clearly saying work hard in college or this bad thing will happen to you. It could have been “digging ditches” or “flipping burgers”, but it’s a common sentiment and we’ve all heard it.

And what if Kerry really did mean to say “try to be smart, or you’ll be stupid and get us into Iraq like Bush?” Many people have pointed out that the couplet becomes, “work hard, be smart, or else become president of the United States.”

It was a stupid statement.

Google “Marcuse” + “repressive tolerance”.

Just utter bullshit passed off as legitimate discourse.

The guys out here are full of shit too.

Like all neoconservatives….

The gap, however, is between jewish war propagandists(Neo) and their Christian right supporters and the rest of the world…

Let’s see…from your own words…Sherlock Holmes would deduce that you are:

0) an aforementioned troll;

1) Too cowardly to further identify yourself;

2) Antisemitic Academic (most likely “Social Science” major;

3) Embittered atheist un-convert from mainstream religion;

4) Unacquainted with statistical methods;

5) Living off Mommy and Daddy.

How am I doing so far?

Doubt that it’s graduated yet. Still taking a half-load of political science and philosophy courses, going to frat parties every night, and living off of mommy and daddy’s largesse while learning Marxist tenets enough to complain about capitalism. Since it likes to be anonymous, probably doesn’t volunteer a lot in class, and pulls down a “C” average which is alright since everything is plagiarized off the internet.

Paul Bremer’s disbanding of the Iraqi Army and the Abu Ghraib incident made things a mess — although now that the Iraqis control that prison, the way the American handled it was like 5 star hotel by comparison — but show be a Left with any sense of perspective and I’ll sell you swamp land on the moon.

The initiation of the war was JUST and NECESSARY.

Without UN intervention, the onslaught from Turkey, Iran, and Arabia to redraw a Shia Caliphate or a Sunni Caliphate across the Middle East would have made the genocide in Rwanda look like a friendly Rubgy match.

Well thank you to neo-conservatives who said NO MORE of this anti-war capitulation to pathological dictators! Strange how the conservatives have come to champion the soul of liberalism — but who cares who does it as long as it is done.

Lincoln had to go through a lot of generals before he found U.S. Grant. Maybe Bush needs to think about that before swearing undying loyaly to Rumsfeld.

Just wondering what folks think, since the issue was brought up in a previous comment.

Without UN intervention, the onslaught from Turkey, Iran, and Arabia to redraw a Shia Caliphate or a Sunni Caliphate across the Middle East would have made the genocide in Rwanda look like a friendly Rubgy match.”
Isaiah Hunahun | Homepage | 11.05.06 - 4:02 pm | #

What a load of dribble. You are trying to say the US SAVED Iraq from invasion?

Oh my, you couldn’t make this stuff up.

Even neonut extraordinaire Ledeen is claiming he opposed the war now, despite the overwhelming evidence of all the ‘articles’ he wrote calling for it.

Ahhh neocons. You’d have to laugh if they weren’t such bloodthirsty murderous savages.

Then what are Islamofascist? Kitty cats? Your non-existing perspective renders your argument null and void — and I didn’t have to lift a finger. This is too easy :

We have that problem among Democrats who voted for the invasion when they thought it might be politically prudent to pretend to support these efforts. Now they, (Kerry as an example), like to carry as if they had always opposed invasion despite plenty of direct quotes saying they did once support it.

BTW: Whats a Ledeen?

Another silly neocon fantasy. That’s what.

BTW: Whats a Ledeen?
harry | 11.05.06 - 6:05 pm | #

I agree, I’m not excusing anyone who voted for or supported this trumped up war. Only a fool would have believed the pack of lies that was peddled in support of this illegal and immoral crime against humanity.

Ledeen is a leading neocon/zionist pundit who masquerades as a journalist. One of neo’s favourites I’d imagine. A warmonger.

Are they fighting for human freedom?

This isn’t difficult.

And of of course, that the invasion of Iraq was an “illegal and immoral crime against humanity.” is your opinion, shared by the likes of Kerry today, but not yesterday.

It would also seem that you are pretty selective with your outrage.

Why must the rhetoric be so redundant?

Supposition on your part in that they believed. I don’t accept that anyone blieved the rhetoric. Ordinary people the world over knew it was all lies.

It would also seem that you are pretty selective with your outrage.
harry | 11.05.06 - 7:12 pm | #

How so? I have no respect for anyone who supported the war but I have particular disgust for the architects and the promoters. I have nil respect for the Democrats but even that is more than I have for the Repub administration.

Are they fighting for human freedom?

This isn’t difficult.
Isaiah Hunahun | Homepage | 11.05.06 - 7:04 pm | #

Iraqis who don’t want your troops occupying their country are planting the ieds, and they probably see it as fighting for their freedom.

What are american troops fighting for?

Oil.

The term islamofascist is a puerile simplistic nonsense that deserves only scorn.

How are ordinary soldiers benefiting from the theft of Iraqi oil? Or am I being sarcastic because they aren’t there for the oil, the soldiers I mean, but simply have been duped into fighting for a neocon Imperialist land grab?

Supposition based upon what these same Democrats were saying at the time. Im not sure what information these so-called “ordinary people of the world” of yours were getting I was not privileged to, but when not only my nations leaders, (Democrat & Republican) were saying the same things echoed by other world leaders at the time, (Blair, Howard etc), then Id have to conclude they had a firm belife in what they were saying was true as they knew it.

The “ordinary people of the world had no special insight, they just got lucky in this case.

spotter | Homepage | 11.05.06 - 7:38 pm | #

I thought you said previously that we were fighting for Zionism or a Christian Empire or for the Bush Dynasty?

Fighting for resources is just and right. People have always fought for water, land, food and oil.

At least we are paying them top dollar for the oil we are stealing!

I think you have a personal problem masquerading as a political view….

Does one party have to be a fascist now?

I’m sure you think you’re very clever, but you sound like a not very bright 12 year old to me. In my experience people like you don’t understand the term fascist anyway.

The “ordinary people of the world had no special insight, they just got lucky in this case.
harry | 11.05.06 - 7:49 pm | #

No insight necessary. The evidence from the weapons inspectors and the reporting of years of cruel sanctions in the press outside the US was overwhelming. Few people believed Blair or Howard even in their respective constituencies.

I don’t believe for a second that Howard or Blair believed their own rhetoric and nor do I believe that any US politician did either.

In both Australia and Britain there was roughly 80% opposition to the war yet democracy failed and narrow commercial interest won out over the wills of the people.

The neocons have nil respect for democracy.

Does one party have to be a fascist now?

I’m sure you think you’re very clever, but you sound like a not very bright 12 year old to me. In my experience people like you don’t understand the term fascist anyway.

The “ordinary people of the world had no special insight, they just got lucky in this case.
harry | 11.05.06 - 7:49 pm | #

No insight necessary. The evidence from the weapons inspectors and the reporting of years of cruel sanctions in the press outside the US was overwhelming. Few people believed Blair or Howard even in their respective constituencies.

I don’t believe for a second that Howard or Blair believed their own rhetoric and nor do I believe that any US politician did either.

In both Australia and Britain there was roughly 80% opposition to the war yet democracy failed and narrow commercial interest won out over the wills of the people.

The neocons have nil respect for democracy.

Well maybe thye meant become ‘this ‘ president of the US, then it makes alot of sense, but then again…

Nahncee - Kery has used the joke b4, with its proper wordage, that was the point, that’s why ppl were sickened when Bush ran with it, but you know…you cant stop an oragutang from flinging shit.

Isahah - Where do you get your info that Iraq’s neighbors were poised to attack so the US got in there first?
That’s just more retrospective apologetic rationalization, kind of like WMDs. You mark my words sunshine, Turkey will invade the north soon, when it couldn;t have b4.

Spotter 7.38pm - Im afraid yours is the only staement that comes close to the realpolitik that the others think they are using to justify.

Critising Bush or this Administration does not make you a ‘bad’ conservative….If I were conservative I’d be more livid than I am now at them….

But I have to disagree with all on this point….Everyone, EVERYONE knew that there were no WMDs in Iraq…If you dont admit this to yourself well….you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.

Why not?

“Spotter” is now inducted into the Vast Left Wing Antisemitism Conspiracy. Congrats, Spotter. You join a long list of distinguished horrors, not excluding the Late Great Josef Visaronivich Djugashivilii (aka Stalin).

You might want to take a leaf from the writings of said J. V. Stalin and denounce rootless cosmopolitans while you’re at it.

Go for it, pal. Your use of the word “zionist” gave you away, comrade. It always does…

Saddam was punished for the Kuwait war. The UN was taking care of the Iraq population.

If Bush 43 had done a Bush 41 I would have supported it, but I knew in my gut it was wrong, so do you.

Wake up…

Why not?
harry | 11.05.06 - 8:11 pm | #

Ah, look I’m not going to engage your strawmen. You know its a strawman, I know its a starwman, why bother if you have an argument that will stand up?

Thanks but no thanks.

As for Saddam supporting terrorism. Bull.

I don’t know if youve ever heard of a ‘conservative’ guy called Adolph Shicklegruber, but he was a bit of a zionst himself….it’s all in his book…Mein Kampf….

Ah, so it is now “antisemitic” to mention zionism now? Sounds suspiciously like paranoia to me. I not that you’ve not commented on the antisemitism sp prevalent in neo’s writings and the blatherings of most of the commentors here.

You’re pathetic.

Ah, so it is now “antisemitic” to mention zionism now? Sounds suspiciously like paranoia to me. I not that you’ve not commented on the antisemitism sp prevalent in neo’s writings and the blatherings of most of the commentors here.

You’re pathetic.

You mean U.S. led International Coalition?

–and–

Iraq would have eventually imploded under sanctions. The absence of Saddam with international forces would have produced unmitigated violence. Would Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey just sat on the sidelines as refugees poured towards their borders? Isn’t it realistic to suppose that they would have stepped in?

Gray | 11.05.06 - 8:08 pm | #

If you say so. I suppose you have no problems with the mob and their just and right struggle.

Interesting view. Not surprising coming from a selfconfessed proponent of genocide I guess, but interesting nonetheless.

If and when the US is humbled economically and you are under threat, do you think you’ll have the same philosophy?

Not gonna happen, although you obviously wish it would:

The US economy is the strongest it has been in years! No other country is close….

and you are under threat, do you think you’ll have the same philosophy?

We are ‘under threat’.

I do have the same philosophy because I like bacon.

I’ll fight for bacon; pork products; bikinis; oil; funny pictures of Mohammed; free speech; freedom of religion; the right to charge interest on a loan…

Y’know, all the things that are ‘haram’ under the vicious yoke of the Musselman.

Spotter, are you a Mohammedan or just a mullah-sniffing sympathizer?

What’s the root of your big beef with America?

Aslo with regards to ‘Coalition,’ Blairs motives were very very complex…and honorable it will show. Despite what ‘Britishers’ think of Blair I think when you get to the bottom of it he is a decent man with decent principles, compromised as politicians are by the game they are in…ofcourse the overwhelming majority of politicians are…well..you know…

More Later

Goodnight.

Not gonna happen, although you obviously wish it would:

The US economy is the strongest it has been in years! No other country is close….

Well you just keep on drinking the kool aid gray. The US economy is a train wreck in the making.

The economy consists of more than stock market indices. In fact the high SMIs are a warning sign. Your $ is way overvalued and at risk.

But what would I know? You neocons have all the answers.

How are you going to pay off the biggest debt in human history when all you export these days is dollars?

To even talk of democracy with your current policies is sickening hypocrisy.

You are the biggest threat to the world. You represent an existential threat not only to the muslim world, but with the apocalyptic zealous mindset apparent in Washington and Tel Aviv, seemingly to the human species.

What the heck is an ‘antitheist’? Is that someone who believes there is a God but opposes him?

Why not just go ahead and be a Satanist? The chicks are hotter and better rituals :)….

So you’re just a mullah-sniffing sympathizer who hates America so badly that you hope the Musselman kills us.

Don’t you like bacon, or sausage? Or, y’know, religious freedom?

“So you’re just a mullah-sniffing sympathizer who hates America so badly that you hope the Musselman kills us.”

You are just a stinking contemptible redneck with an irrational fear syndrome and an unwarranted superiority complex.

Your economic (lack of) knowledge is proof of the latter.

Man, that is funny!

Is this an organized opposition? How would an organized religion know they are being opposed?

Do you guys have meetings and stuff?

Do you keep a little score sheet on how many of the 10 Commandments you have broken? ‘Cuz, it would be your moral duty to break them….

Then why aren’t you in favor of Our Current War with the Mohammedans–’cuz whomever wins; some organized religion loses!

Or do you not consider Islam an ‘organized religion’?

You are just a stinking contemptible redneck with an irrational fear syndrome

Hahaha! Yeah, why would I be afraid when people so obviously love stinking contemptible rednecks?

and an unwarranted superiority complex.

No. I earned this superiority complex fair and square! But really, what does my Scottish heritage have to do with this?

Your economic (lack of) knowledge is proof of the latter.

Economic growth at nominal levels with unemployment below what was previously considered the ‘frictional unemployment’ level.

It looks good by any measure notwithstanding how you feel about the economy. It doesn’t care how you feel–it just keeps chugging along making Americans rich….

Man, I’d sure like to get you on a waterboard and find out what you really believe.

Are you Scot? That would explain a lot when reading your posts.

Are you Scot? That would explain a lot when reading your posts.

Interesting argumentative technique, no? And entirely representative of the contemporary left-lib.

As a favor to everyone, including the spootster himself, here’s a shorter spoot: You’re all stupid and really really bad, and I’m not, nyah nyah. Feel free to copy and paste, spooter — I know you’re not worried about repeating yourself, after all.

When Gibson, was filming Braveheart, he asked one of the cast, a Highlander (no spotty, he’s not immortal), whether he wore something under that kilt, the Highlander’s reply “no, laddie, just your mother’s **** “. This from an extra, and no Gibson didn’t fire him.

I have an Angus in my family tree, as does my wife, unfortunately she inherited the Highlander backbone, I didn’t.

A stinking contemptible one!

I did some looking around on the “If America Knew” website that Spooter has listed as his homepage.

“If America Knew” is a website and organization run by some wierd old antisemitic bat named ‘Alison Wier’

She’s a David Duke wannabe and has some stuff published at National Vanguard–a white racial neo-nazi site.

The leftist/muslim/neo-nazi nexus is a fascinating one!

It’s bizarre!–in one breath the neo-nazis will denounce blacks and mexicans and in the next breath they will make common cause with the arabs ‘cuz they are killing jews.

The filthy leftists, at the same time, will embrace minorities and in the next breath will make common cause with the neo-nazis ‘cuz they support the arab minorities.

The amazing thing is watching a leftist who will make common cause with the neo-nazis denigrate rednecks and christians!

The only thing holding these groups together is antisemitism masquerading as ‘anti-zionism’.

Hey Spotter, are you just a filthy leftist or some kind of neo-nazi or white supremicist?

I can’t tell them apart anymore….

As for your economy, you should listen to actual economists, not politicians. You are getting poorer, not richer. And, faster than ever before. Heard of the national debt?

Gosh Sally, that is just so clever, my sides are splitting. You righties are so pleasant and rational in your discourse, of course. Hahaha.

Groups? I can see that you are in need of a group for your identity. I don’t need a crotch.

But I am curious as to how you would discern how anti-zionism disguises itself as antisemitism. That needs some explaining.

Let’s hear it.

Groups? I can see that you are in need of a group for your identity. I don’t need a crotch.

But I am curious as to how you would discern how anti-zionism disguises itself as antisemitism. That needs some explaining.

Let’s hear it.