November 26th, 2006

“Obsession”–the Left has theirs, as well

Fox News has been doing some interesting and rather gutsy things of late, not by blogosphere standards but by network standards. First, there was the Glenn Beck airing of “Exposed,” and now a recent showing of a broadcast featuring the film “Obsession.”

Some of the footage in the two works is similar or the same. Much or most of it is familiar to those who read blogs But apparently this sort of thing is news to many people.

Taking a look at it last night, I watched footage of radical jihadist Islamists ranting against the US, Israel, the Jews, and the West in the fashion I’ve come to consider typical of the genre, and it struck me that their message is the worst and most blatant example of imperialistic ambition I’ve ever seen.

Of course, I wasn’t around when Alexander was setting about his conquests, nor even for Hitler, and both were determined to have the world fall under their dominion and sway. Nor, as far as I know, were they especially secretive about their ambitions.

But there are a few things about radical Islamist jihadists that make them potentially even more dangerous. As the program pointed out, the pool of willing jihadists is potentially larger–there are more countries and people involved available for recruitment. Nazism, although theoretically appealing to any person on earth, was in fact a more local German/Austrian phenomenon; the exceptions never constituted a real movement in other countries.

Islamist jihadists have been from the start a pan-Islamic movement, and Islam covers a lot of territory already. They also have a beachfront among the Muslim population of the Western world, and can attract a certain number of followers there for perpetrating inside jobs. In addition, of course, there is the fact that the movement is based on, and feeds off, a religion rather than a “mere” political movement, and therefore is not really of this world–which gives it a far more powerful draw, and far more powerful weapons to use: eternal reward, and war for the glory of God.

But its blatant and domineering imperialism, whose goal (among other things) it to destroy human freedom and all the wonders of the Enlightenment, is minimized or virtually ignored by the Left for the most part (or even tacitly supported, as a foil to Western imperialism, capitalism, whatever “ism” offends the Left) because of its third world origins. The Left follows the rules of the PC Commandments (and if you don’t recall them, now would be a good time for a quick review).

Islamist jihadist imperialist ambitions don’t fit into the Left’s preconceived and rather rigid notions of what’s dangerous or even what’s possible. Nothing in the third world can threaten us, by definition, and everything bad about it is caused by us, by definition. And so the clear and forthright, unashamed, unrepetant threats, ambitions, and raw hatred being expressed on a daily basis in the world of the jihadi are not taken seriously, except as responses to Western crimes, both real and imaginary.

[CORRECTION: It’s been pointed out to me that Glenn Beck’s “Exposed” was aired on CNN, not Fox.}

72 Responses to ““Obsession”–the Left has theirs, as well”

  1. Morton Doodslag Says:

    To be correct (and in doing so revealing something all the more shocking and all the more gutsy), Glenn Beck’s excellent broadcast was not a product of FoxNews, but CNN HEADLINE NEWS…

    The world is clearly a place of wonders and sometimes perhaps miracles — and among these we may soon need to add flying pigs, and ticker tape parades for people seem to be waking up to our Muslim Menace… Finally.

  2. snowonpine Says:

    From what I have seen of Islam it derives a lot of its power from giving a religious imprimatur to and encouraging all the dark and violent human impulses and tendencies that Christianity and Judaism try to eliminate, rein in or redirect.

  3. Ymarsakar Says:

    Some of the footage in the two works is similar or the same. Much or most of it is familiar to those who read blogs But apparently this sort of thing is news to many people.

    Wow, Neo, Imagine that. I wonder how this could have happened!? Sometimes subtle works on the people of this world, although I think a hammer is preferable to what we got right now. Infestation time. Also, I sent you a response to your podcast in email form before Thanksgiving, and also posted it on my blog. I say this to make sure you know it is there, not because of any demand for a response.

    it struck me that their message is the worst and most blatant example of imperialistic ambition I’ve ever seen.

    Urg, don’t you ah, mean anti-imperialistic ambition? *looks over shoulder for the commissar*

    Morton is correct, I believe. However, even Glen told us up front he was not a real “journalist” hehe. That he had bias. Ooo, fair and balanced. It is just funny, I think. The journalists that graduated from journalism school are like Putin, deny everything and obfuscate. Where Fox News just presents everything openly, like a commercial. You KNOW what you are getting. And if you don’t like it, plenty of other fish around.

    Glenn did a wonderful job beating down on the journalist bozos that inhabit the press.

  4. justaguy Says:

    Pure comedy, Neo. Thanks for a great laugh.

    Which western countries are under occupation by the muslim fundamentalist armies? Which western countries are being bombed, destabilised and threatened by nuclear weapons under control of islamic fundamentalists?

    Which islamic fundamentalist is Dick Cheney’s/Bushco’s daddy?

  5. gcotharn Says:

    Bravo. Keep sounding the alarm. Only a very small percentage of Americans currently understand Jihadi motivations.

    On 9/11/01, I was one of the Americans who looked at the towers and asked “Why in the world are they attacking us?” I had barely a clue – but I did have a curiousity to find out the answer to my question, and I did have an Internet connection. When I fully understood why Jihad attacked America, I was instantly in such a minority as to be labeled a “zealot.”

    Our minority is growing. I don’t want to overemphasize blogposts such as this, but I’m certain they make a difference. Smart people – previously uninformed – will read this blogpost with fresh eyes. They will watch “Obsession.” They will gradually (maybe too slow for my taste), inevitably spread the word. Their friends will say: “If Charlotte Smith, level-headed as she is, believes Jihad is coming to America… maybe there is something to that opinion…”

    I’m almost finished with “The Looming Tower”, by Lawrence Wright. It is outstanding. It is not a book of Wright’s opinions. It is a book of facts which are arranged into a coherent narrative. It is the culmination of 5 years of research – begun on 9/11/01, when Wright walked into his magazine’s offices and requested/demanded that he be assigned to research who the attackers were, and why they attacked the twin towers.

  6. Ymarsakar Says:

    I’m looking at the officers in France getting their arse kicked and asking for the equipment the US has in Iraq. Helicopters and humvee assault vehicles. If France won’t go to the quagmire, the quagmire will come to Fwance.

    What other countries has the honest readers of Neo, seen gone afire with Islamic occupation?

  7. Steve Says:

    It’s true that the comments of many lefties on the WOT are weird. However, there are others (like me) who think the typical right-wing description of the conflict, and its resolution, is overly facile and silly.

    Today I had CNN on, and, after about a half hour on Michael Richard’s self-abasement for using the “N-word”, there were interviews with the Commandant of the Marine Corps, and General William Odom, former NSA director under Reagan. They both basically said that the Marines and the Army are overstretched, are not far from a breaking point, and moreover are not fullfilling their other missions (including training missions) because of the Iraq War.

    And that gets us back to the bottom line, and what I have been saying for a long time: we do not have the people to win in Iraq (even if that were possible), we do not have the people to extend the WOT, and therefore the endless wakeup calls and sabre rattling add up to nada.

    As to the global threat of Jihadis: frankly, they may practice terrorism in the West, but there’s no way they can conquer the West. Or Europe. Or, for that matter, Israel. They don’t have the troops, the weapons, or the leadership.

  8. Ymarsakar Says:

    One of the isolationist bills the North Dakota guy tried to pass was a bill categorizing Hollywood as the “raging volcano of war fever”. This was back in WWII, before Pealr Harbor but after Poland Division.

    Warner Brothers took the cake in pro-war movies.

    For one thing, it is natural for steve to hear things that reaffirms the isolationist tendency. It is a loop. The second thing, it is CNN.

    So, double loop.

    As to the global threat of Jihadis: frankly, they may practice terrorism in the West, but there’s no way they can conquer the West. Or Europe. Or, for that matter, Israel. They don’t have the troops, the weapons, or the leadership.

    As the French saw it first hand. Isolationism doesn’t pay. Chirac thought he was holding the enemy at bay with his sabotage of US at the Un. Ah contraire mon ami.

    Steve’s arguments are not persuasive. Probably about as persuasive as the North Dakota guy talking about waging hollywood war fever or Chirac talking about balancing the US.

  9. Steve Says:

    Yma: Saying that an argument is not persuasive is not persuasive. You have to explain why you (for example) have a greater insight into the US force requirements than a former General and NSA leader under Reagan, as well as the current Commandant (!) of the Marine Corps.

    After that, you have to explain how you will utilize our given forces and to what ends.

    As to the issue of what the Jihadis can do to us, let’s get some realistic scenarios going. Do you think a few tens of thousands of guys in the Middle East can topple Europe, or the US, then, let’s explain exactly how.

    Of course, they may get their hands on a nuclear weapon, explode it, and kill a few hundred K Americans or Europeans. In that case, whoever launched it will be nuked in return (and we will also probably get over our PC treatment of Arabs and Muslims). But, (A) we aren’t going to first strike nuke anyone, not even Iran, and (B) using nukes is frankly a sign of defeat, because it means we cannot defeat our enemies by conventional means, and (C) a barbaric nuking of the USA will not be equivalent to conquering the USA.

    As I have been saying for some months now, we do not have sufficient ground forces in our armed forces. Until or unless we get them, we will win no more wars.

  10. justaguy Says:

    France has fallen to the muslims? Geeeez I was there inspecting my real estate a few weeks ago and nobody told me.

    They’ve disguised it well. I didn’t detect any change at all. Sneaky buggers.

  11. justaguy Says:

    France has fallen to the muslims? Geeeez I was there inspecting my real estate a few weeks ago and nobody told me.

    They’ve disguised it well. I didn’t detect any change at all. Sneaky buggers.

  12. Kerko Says:

    Please… history is obviously not your strong point

  13. Ymarsakar Says:

    If saying an argument wasn’t persuasive, isn’t persuasive, then what do you call saying

    They both basically said that the Marines and the Army are overstretched, are not far from a breaking point, and moreover are not fullfilling their other missions (including training missions) because of the Iraq War.

    Why don’t you look at your own positions and get them strack, because I’m not here to persuade isolationists not to be islolationist. If you haven’t convinced yourself of that after 9/11, and the Paris riots, then well that is that.

    After that, you have to explain how you will utilize our given forces and to what ends.

    Read blackfive and this guy.

    Link

    I’m not going to say that they are going to say this or that, they can speak for themselves. But I will say that I agree with blackfive and Co, except Jimbo.

    Do you think a few tens of thousands of guys in the Middle East can topple Europe, or the US, then, let’s explain exactly how.

    you understand how a coup de tat works right? And do you see what goes on in places like Paris?

    In that case, whoever launched it will be nuked in return (and we will also probably get over our PC treatment of Arabs and Muslims).

    Who, the isolationists, will they get over their belief that the Islamic Jihad isn’t an existential threat? The question is, did Putin assassinate the ex spy? If you don’t know who put out a hit on someone, how are you going to know who gave nukes to terroists?

    They’ll be talking about US getting fooled on WMDs all day to sunday. Heck, good enough for Americans, good enough for them.

    Until or unless we get them, we will win no more wars.

    For some reason, even if you had 50 million troops at your disposal steve, I don’t really think your basic philosophy, isolationism, and tactics will change all that much.

    The belief that all you need are some numbers in a draft, is interesting. Because if you can’t win with the weapons the US has right now, then you are a general who should be fired. A general that lacks will and fight with what he has, ain’t gonna get that fight when you give him more assets.

  14. Ymarsakar Says:

    We’ve been over this before steve, you should already remember this.x

  15. Kerko Says:

    The US is not ‘at war’, in anything but the newspapers, you should realize this then think about why it isn’t…

  16. Kerko Says:

    Neither is France…despite your hysteria…though I’m sure the Champs Elysee should be naplamed if only to calm the steel of nutjobs…

  17. justaguy Says:

    We’ve always been at war with Oceania.

  18. Sally Says:

    Steve: Do you think a few tens of thousands of guys in the Middle East can topple Europe, or the US, then, let’s explain exactly how.

    There are something under 2 billion muslims in the world, and, as Israel has seen lately, the jihadis among them aren’t just guys. “Oh,” say the apologists and various other forms of human ostrich, “but not all muslims are crazed suicide killers, after all!” And no, they’re not. But just 1% of them would represent between ten and twenty million — crazed suicide killers. And with the most rapidly expanding population on the planet, they could easily replace many times that number in a year.

    “Oh, but the number of willing participants in suicidal or even other terrorist operations is just a small fraction of 1%, after all,” say the same types, even with their mouths full of sand or worse. And yes, they are — so far. But have a look at the kind of “teaching” that goes on in Palestinian schools, and Pakistani madrasas, and in increasing numbers of mosques throughout the Islamic Ummah, in which the role-model of the killer-”martyr” is upheld as not just a great hero for the family and community (because, don’t forget, there’s lots more where he came from), but as the surest, quickest path to eternal sexual indulgence for prolonged, frustrated adolescents.

    Now, of course, some of these apologist or ostrich types like to pull there heads out briefly from time to time in order to adopt an affected air of coolness at any of this — e.g., “Of course, they may get their hands on a nuclear weapon, explode it, and kill a few hundred K Americans or Europeans” (you have to like that little “few hundred K” touch, don’t you?). And if human beings were robots, it might be true that a few hundred K or even a few M wouldn’t have much affect other than us lobbing some nukes back (and offing a few hundred K, etc. muslims). But, being human, terrorism actually does work on us — it creates, as its name implies, a cultural climate of fear, which in this case is precisely a fear of Islam — i.e., a fear of arabs and muslims. It’s not a fear we like to acknowledge, partly because we feel a bit ashamed of it, and partly because we get it mixed up with a neurotic sense of cultural guilt. And so, consciously or otherwise, many adopt various euphemisms for the fear: e.g., a new-found religious “sensitivity”, or a multi-culti desire not to “give offence”. This is already having a significant impact on our media, our arts, and our educational institutions. And, as increasing numbers of muslims with their explosive birth rates pour into Europe, especially, this impact grows and spreads — significant areas of French cities, for example, are already effectively out of reach of French law.

    So how is a culture conquered? Traditionally, with an invading army — i.e., with troops, weapons, and leadership. And, as Steve says, right now Islam lacks all three. But this is not a traditional form of conflict.

  19. Sally Says:

    (continued):

    Cultures can collapse and be effectively conquered in other ways than through direct invasion. We need to come to terms with this new form of quasi-ideological warfare backed by state-supported terrorism and see it for the existential threat it is. Those who can only remember the past are condemned to misunderstand — and lose — the present.

  20. Holmes Says:

    Only one culture will survive this confrontation, and the radical muslims know it. They’re fighting for their right to rape and honour kill in the name of Allah.

    They only continue to be primitive murderous brutes if we let our culture down. Hold your culture up–doing that may be the only thing that lets your grandchildren live free.
    Steve | 11.26.06 – 11:16 am | #

    Steve wrote that in a previous thread. I think Steve hasn’t figured out what his position is on this whole thing.

  21. justaguy Says:

    And, as increasing numbers of muslims with their explosive birth rates pour into Europe, especially, this impact grows and spreads — significant areas of French cities, for example, are already effectively out of reach of French law.

    Rubbish. More American cities are more dangerous than any cities in France. You are falling for ultrarightwing fantasist propaganda.

    Palestinian kids don’t need to be taught who their oppressors are. They’re the ones shooting at them, breaking their bones, denying them medicines, dropping cluster bombs on them and stealing their land, water, taxes and livelihoods. And using your tax dollars to do it.

  22. Sally Says:

    Palestinian kids don’t need to be taught who their oppressors are. They’re the ones shooting at them, breaking their bones, denying them medicines, dropping cluster bombs on them and stealing their land, water, taxes and livelihoods.

    What, you mean Hamas? I don’t remember them dropping cluster bombs, but….

    justa, by the way, is an example of one facet of Islamist propaganda — this is the attempt to play upon the neurotic guilt complex of the West’s liberal-left. He’s not very good at it, since he’s such a repetitive and one-sided one-note, but his very crudity makes the technique all the more apparent.

  23. JonBuck Says:

    Justaguy:

    Tell that to the thousands of French cops who have been injured over the past year. Tell that to the woman who was burned alive when “youths” set the bus she was in on fire.

    Tell that to the 40% of British Muslims who want Shari’a Law.

    With every word you say you further prove Neo’s point.

    Unless you consider CNN, the BBC, and the other institutions who report on these problems “ultrarightwing”.

  24. Cranky Greg Says:

    You got that right.

  25. Anonymous Says:

    justaguy: Which western countries are under occupation by the muslim fundamentalist armies?

    The Nazi’s weren’t occupying Poland in 1938, but there was plenty of Nazi imperialism. However, you’ve mischaracterized the conflict; Islamists don’t represent a national force, so Islamist imperialism won’t be nationalist in nature or effect. Permanently occupying a French ghetto, for example, denying access to police and giving themselves a base from which to conduct further operations, counts as occupation.

    Which western countries are being bombed, destabilised and threatened by nuclear weapons under control of islamic fundamentalists?

    Lots, if you count airliner attacks, bombed railways, bombed subways, truck bombs, suicide bombers, etc., etc.

    Steve: frankly, they may practice terrorism in the West

    Nuclear terrorism? They don’t need to conquer us, just destroy us.

    Back to justaguy: … muslims with their explosive birth rates …

    Come on, tell me that wasn’t intentional! :-D Ha-ha

  26. Kerko Says:

    Cutting edge stuff…you should be aware of the hierarchies of the dialectic that you are tampering with. Ultra right wing or is it ultraviolent…..hate….beautifullllll

  27. strcpy Says:

    Unfortunately the vast majority of people simply have to learn through experience.

    For many 9/11 was enough to do so. I think the last election, and most likely one or two more, will do the domestic learning (dems are not going to change, third parties are not going to be the answer, be active in primaries). Though at some point people just give up – I hope it doesn’t happen in this case. Primaries require actual personal effort.

    Further, I think something really really really bad is going to have to happen to get enough to finally be willing to finish it. Too much of the above is persuasive – after all it says things are great just we are screwing up (that is – it is all in our hands to make the world bliss). So – when a sympathetic country finally falls, or a nuclear bomb goes off in a western world – where are our leftist going to go with this type of thing? The French riots weren’t enough – they didn’t give them the respect they deserved -so what is? Until they have absolutely no choice but to sign on they will not (and even then, some percentage will *never* sign on).

    Until then maybe they are right. Maybe we need to pull all the troops back, reduce it to a police action, and treat the whole thing like we did on 9/10 (after all, it worked so well before then). Until we have 100% proof that the other side is total failure it is an attractive alternative to a long term hard fought conflict/war.

  28. Kerko Says:

    1. America is uniquely evil.
    2. America is never justified in defending itself.
    3. Illiterate people from poor societies are superior to Americans.
    4. The Earth would be better off without human beings.
    5. Making a profit is always immoral.
    6. Differences between individuals or groups are unfair.
    7. For Designated Victim Groups, strong feelings excuse all behavior.
    8. Policies informed by Judæo-Christian principles are inherently suspect.
    9. Conservatives are hypocrites; liberals are sincere.
    10. There are no acts of God; there are only acts of Government.

    Yes at last something to bite….even if it had to be manufactured some could sleep better at night…ideally

  29. Kerko Says:

    Yes the US presence in Iraq at 9/10 is probably the only thing that did go to plan…

  30. Kerko Says:

    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003438513

    Sod damn liberal MSM…no wonder things aren’t going flags of our fathers…how could it? This is Vietnam…again…

  31. Zeno Says:

    I’m convinced leftism is a form of mental disease, a reflex of a malaise sweeping the West, perhaps a symptom of its decadence… And this is a former leftist speaking… So, at leastt there is hope – it’s not terminal. But at what price revelation will come for those poor souls? Some see the light only when it’s too late.

  32. Anonymous Says:

    Muslims have grievances, and some of them are legitimate. You’d starve the radicals of support if you addressed the grievances that deserve addressing.

    Instead, by killing tens of thousands of innocent people, you’re giving Osama & co. precisely what they want. State warfare is terrorism on a large scale. Seventy-five to eighty-five percent of fatalities in contemporary wars are civilian; a quarter of those are children.

    It doesn’t make sense to attack a rootless, decentralized network of religious radicals by turning a country on its head and casting tends of thousands of ordinary people into despair.

    You’re not going to reform Muslim culture through war. If the enemy does have “roots,” they’re conceptual: the religious and secular arguments used to recruit. Strategize around those. What cultural grievances are the radicals leveraging for their religious movement? Which of them are legitimate? How might they be addressed?

  33. Kerko Says:

    “I’m convinced leftism is a form of mental disease, a reflex of a malaise sweeping the West, perhaps a symptom of its decadence…?”

    Yes we need the straw men to stand up to be killed in order to reinforce to ourselves that we are right…don’t you agree anon?

  34. Sally Says:

    It should go without saying that “legitimate grievances” should be addressed, period. That is, they should be addressed simply because they’re legitimate, not because someone or some group is threatening us. “Addressing” announced or imagined grievances because we’re under threat is simply appeasement, no more and no less. And it hasn’t, doesn’t, and won’t work — instead, it simply invites an extension and elaboration of “grievances” backed by more and greater threats. But an eagerness to appease — often in the form of a Stockholm Syndrome-type of growing alignment with what it’s hoped is the “militants” view of things — is just the reflex response of the contemporary left, as well as too much of the frightened liberal middle. Such a reflex, for example, would go a fair way toward explaining the hostility toward Israel, or the thinly-veiled anti-semitism that we find on the contemporary left. Such a reflex, after all, plays right into the hands of the terrorist collaborators among us.

  35. Tatterdemalian Says:

    “Which western countries are under occupation by the muslim fundamentalist armies?”

    Spain, France, Britain

    “Which western countries are being bombed, destabilised and threatened by nuclear weapons under control of islamic fundamentalists?”

    Israel, Spain, France, Britain, Germany, Australia, Phillipines, India, Turkey, Egypt, Thailand, Lebanon

  36. Tatterdemalian Says:

    All of Islam’s legitimate grievances were addressed, and reparations paid for them, in the 1970s. Since then, the left has been addressing all their illegitimate ones, which is why Islam is now demanding redress for grievances that can charitably be termed “just plain fucking insane.”

  37. Sally Says:

    You’re not going to reform Muslim culture through war.

    That’s now up to the muslims. The culture’s got to BE reformed, and either they do it or we’ll HAVE to do it, as the cultures of nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were reformed.

  38. Anonymous Says:

    1. America is uniquely evil.

    These are rules? This is pure propaganda – and crap at that. America isn’t ‘uniquely’ evil – we’ve seen this type of behavior before in other imperialist nations with global designs and we call it ‘fascism.’
    I don’t think ‘evil’ is a word the left uses at all – good and evil? Thats your doorstep, Neo….

    2. America is never justified in defending itself.

    Nonsense. America is absolutely justified in defending itself – but it isn’t defending itself. It’s attacking, robbing, politically and economically interfering in the democratic aspirations of third world countries (and many others, really).
    9/11? A stateless criminal attack preceeded by too many U.S government attacks to even mention.

    3. Illiterate people from poor societies are superior to Americans.

    ???? This is what the left thinks? LOL. No – the left thinks that America isn’t culturally superior to these nations to the extent that we demonstate by violating their basic rights.

    4. The Earth would be better off without human beings.

    Dumb ones, yes. That by the way is a joke – certainly like this ‘rule’, which has to be.

    5. Making a profit is always immoral.

    No -making a profit through criminal and immoral practises is always immoral.

    6. Differences between individuals or groups are unfair.

    Thats a ‘left’ position? Are you sure?

    7. For Designated Victim Groups, strong feelings excuse all behavior.

    You could say the same about the so-called U.S ‘patriots’. Or you might not. You might laugh when you read such rubbish.

    8. Policies informed by Judæo-Christian principles are inherently suspect.

    Policies informed by Judeo-Christian principles are not above introspection and scrutiny and not always superior to other values.

    9. Conservatives are hypocrites; liberals are sincere.

    I’ll give you that one. Generally speaking, very true.

    10. There are no acts of God; there are only acts of Government.

    Acts of God? Meaning ‘natural occurances’? Sure there is. But they are based in science not religon – that what most would like to see Government based on – leave the religon, like sex, in your own home.

  39. Sergey Says:

    Those who cite their grievances as justification of murder, are terrorists and must be killed. Dead do not have grievances, at least on the Earth. May be, they still have some, in Hell, but this is not our problem. So deliver to Hell everybody who is hellbound, and we shall never hear again about their grievances.

  40. Fred Beloit Says:

    Anonymous, to which oppressed country of non-fascists are you planning to relocate? If I felt the way you do about the US, I’d get the hell out too. Well, have a good trip and may you find many like-minded people there with whom to share your feelings. Bye.

  41. grackle Says:

    As to the global threat of Jihadis: frankly, they may practice terrorism in the West, but there’s no way they can conquer the West. Or Europe. Or, for that matter, Israel. They don’t have the troops, the weapons, or the leadership.

    The commentor is resigned to the terror, is willing to let the Jihadists and their sponsoring Islamofascists states do all the terror the Jihadists want to perform – as long as the terrorists do it and not the Islamofascist states’ conventional military forces.

    Presumably the only thing that would impress the commentor is if Iran, Syria and North Korea made full-scale, conventional military invasions of the US. Lacking this they are all free to do anything they want to do – murder, counterfeit US currency, sponsor 9/11-type terrorism by their proxies, give WMD to their terrorist auxiliaries to be used in the West – anything at all as long as they are careful to not invade US territory with a conventional force.
    The Left has painted itself in a corner – they’ve slandered the US and to perpetuate the slander they must stick to the line that the US is criminal in its action and Imperialistic in its intent. This means to them that no US military actions must EVER occur unless the US is invaded. That’s the ONLY circumstance in which they would contemplate the US EVER taking action against a terror-sponsoring Islamofascist state. REAL Imperialists from the pages of history, for instance an ancient Roman Consul, would laugh in their hyperbolic faces.

    After that, you have to explain how you will utilize our given forces and to what ends.

    Actually our forces in Iraq are doing fine with the present level of troops. They are training the Iraqis, killing a lot of terrorists and are suffering low levels of casualties. So, even though the explanation was not asked of me, I say the US should simply keep utilizing the US military as it has done so far – which is what the US Generals in Iraq also want to do.

    As to the issue of what the Jihadis can do to us, let’s get some realistic scenarios going. Do you think a few tens of thousands of guys in the Middle East can topple Europe, or the US, then, let’s explain exactly how.

    “Tens of thousands”? Tens of MILLIONS would be more accurate. How? A few cheap, low tech EMP missiles would be all that would be needed. Easy to manufacture and impossible to defend against with convention anti-ballistic missile defenses. Most of England could easily be “wiped off the map” with such weapons. And it leaves the real estate relatively untouched while millions of the people under an EMP umbrella would die. Neat, effective, low tech and untraceable. If it ever happens I hope it happens in the commentor’s neighborhood.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_bomb
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43956

    … whoever launched it will be nuked in return … a barbaric nuking of the USA will not be equivalent to conquering the USA

  42. grackle Says:

    … whoever launched it will be nuked in return … a barbaric nuking of the USA will not be equivalent to conquering the USA.

    The problem is that a nuke would not be traceable to the country of origin, so the actors would easily avoid retaliation, or so they probably think. The commentor hastens to point out that to nuke the USA is not equivalent to conquering the USA. Someone needs to explain to the commentor that if the US is nuked, “conquering the USA,” in the sense of his use of the term, becomes unnecessary.

    Muslims have grievances, and some of them are legitimate. You’d starve the radicals of support if you addressed the grievances that deserve addressing.

    For the Left, terrorists are NEVER culpable for their actions. To the Left the terrorists are simply heroes with justifiable grievances fighting against an Imperial Amerika.

    State warfare is terrorism on a large scale.

    Here we have the heart of the Leftist argument. The terrorists aren’t the terrorists – the US is the terrorists. Simple, no? PC commandment #1. America is uniquely evil.

    It doesn’t make sense to attack a rootless, decentralized network of religious radicals by turning a country on its head and casting tends of thousands of ordinary people into despair.

    The commentor thinks the US went into Iraq to attack a “network of religious radicals.” No, the “religious radicals” are mainly attacking EACH OTHER in Iraq, not the US. Religious war has broken out in Iraq amongst different Muslim religious sects, which I don’t find compelling for the US. Let’s watch it happen, perhaps side with one side or another if it doesn’t cost too much in US casualties. Frankly dear readers, the more religious radicals that kill each other in Iraq, the better – I’ve had just about enough of “religious radicals.” But to clear up the obvious confusion: The US went into Iraq not to attack “rootless” radicals but to topple Saddam. Now the US is trying to leave a viable government in Iraq before the US leaves. PC Commandment #2. America is never justified in defending itself.

    You’re not going to reform Muslim culture through war. If the enemy does have “roots,” they’re conceptual: the religious and secular arguments used to recruit. Strategize around those. What cultural grievances are the radicals leveraging for their religious movement? Which of them are legitimate? How might they be addressed?

    To the commentor it’s simply a matter of addressing “grievances.” Which is only reasonable, given PC Commandment # 7. For Designated Victim Groups, strong feelings excuse all behavior.

  43. Zeno Says:

    What’s a “legitimate grievance” as opposed to an “unlegitimate” one? And why should the US (or anyone for that matter) answer for such “grievances”?
    I invite Anonymous to live for a while in the Third World, maybe he will understand that his caricatural views are just that, caricatures, and only possible because he lives a sheltered life in the US of A.

  44. Ymarsakar Says:

    People think argument is a Western strength, but when you look at who we are arguing with over here, it is less a strength and more like a diversion for the barbarians.

  45. Anonymous Says:

    “Those who cite their grievances as justification of murder, are terrorists and must be killed”

    Sergey – do you truly believe that?

  46. Anonymous Says:

    I’m Canadian – not that it matters, loving your country doesn’t have anything to do with what we’re talking about….

    But if you need to know why the U.S is the most hated country in the world – the true reasons – then there you are.

    I’m sure you don’t though – which is another reason why you are so hated….

  47. Anonymous Says:

    “Anonymous, to which oppressed country of non-fascists are you planning to relocate? If I felt the way you do about the US, I’d get the hell out too. Well, have a good trip and may you find many like-minded people there with whom to share your feelings. Bye.”

    It also needs to be said there is a difference between U.S domestic policies and it’s foreign policy – the foreign policy being that which quite adequetely fits the definition of fascism.

    And I’m sure you can find a few Americans who think that your not far away from fulfilling it domestically
    too…

  48. Sally Says:

    I’m Canadian….

    But if you need to know why the U.S is the most hated country in the world – the true reasons – then there you are.

    I’m sure you don’t though – which is another reason why you are so hated….

    Canadians are a mixed lot, like everyone, but they have a kind of hothouse “national culture” maintained and policed by their tax supported broadcasting corporation. In that culture, “being liked” is one of the most important virtues, and Canadians who buy into that culture tend to look upon “being disliked”, not to mention “being hated”, as just about the most frightening thing that can happen to them — they’d sooner learn to pray facing Mecca and embrace Sharia (as one the provinces came close to doing a while back) than contemplate the possibility that “the world” might not like them. It’s part of an unfortunate stereotype of the meek, do-as-you’re-told Canadian, which, as Anonymouse above indicates, has an all too real basis in reality.

  49. Sally Says:

    Stay sleeping anony — it’s what you do best.

  50. grackle Says:

    It also needs to be said there is a difference between U.S domestic policies and it’s foreign policy – the foreign policy being that which quite adequately fits the definition of fascism.
    And I’m sure you can find a few Americans who think that your not far away from fulfilling it domestically

    The above rhetoric reveals a lack of rigorous thinking, an ignorance of history and is coupled with a grim dependence on hyperbole.

    By definition Fascists would oppose democratic government and capitalist economics. The US does neither. In fact the US has FOSTERED democratic governments in Afghanistan and Iraq and democratic reforms in nations around the globe. Some Fascism, eh? But if you are fixated on Amerika as the source of all ills it makes perfect sense and the propaganda sloganeering that has been around since the 1930s comes spewing forth.

    From Wikipedia:

    Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic; in the examples given, by way of a strong, single-party government for enacting laws and a strong, sometimes brutal militia or police force for enforcing them.

    Any fair-minded reader at all familiar with history would acknowledge that the US hasn’t the total control it takes to be Fascistic. Trying for total control of “political, social, cultural, and economic” life is more what the LEFT likes to do and is exactly what the Islamofascists do, which is why ‘Islamofascists’ is the proper term for them; ‘Islamo-neo-fascists’ would be the more accurate term but ‘Islamofascist’ is unwieldy enough. And of course there is no “single-party” system in America, either, another disqualification for US Fascism-hood.
     

  51. grackle Says:

    By definition Fascists would oppose democratic government and capitalist economics. Grackle.
    Fascism is the ultimate in crony capitalism. It was called corporatism before the fascist label came into vogue.
    The US has always opposed real democracy outside its borders.

    Here the commentor attempts to imply that the US is an example of “Corporatism.” A favorite Lefty term, “crony capitalism,” is employed with relish. Marx and Lenin would be proud.

    Note to commentor: “Corporatism” refers to a system where corporations have control over a nation’s economic and social life. That is certainly NOT true of the US. If it WERE true of the US the US steel industry would still employ many millions rather than the shadow of a workforce that now exists. Most of the mills in the Steel Belt have been closed for many years.

    Seems to me that if America had real “corporatism,” those once-powerful corporations could have easily avoided the overseas competition that brought them down. Numerous other examples could be cited. It’s a competitive world market, as our auto manufacturers(who may go down the US steel industry’s path) are presently finding out again. You could just as easily say “crony communism,” or “crony socialism,” or even “crony Fascism.” From Boy Scout troops to terrorism groups, cronies, in fact, seem to be a feature of ALL systems. It’s like opposing someone for sneezing while at the same time denying virtually everyone sneezes.

    I’m surprised that the commentor would find fault with the idea that Fascism opposes democratic government. It is so self-evident in a casual reading of history that it seems ridiculous to claim otherwise. But if one is extremely fixated on America’s “evilness,” history is ignored. I wonder if the commentor thinks that Hitler and Mussolini were holding elections every 2 years.

    Once again: The US has FOSTERED democracy and democratic reforms throughout the world. I guess the Iraqi constitution and parliament don’t exist and the elections with the purple fingers and proudly smiling faces never occurred for the commentor. A 78% turnout in the face of threats from the terrorists, it was. The rest of us saw those faces, though not on the MSM. Information is no longer in a PC straightjacket.
     

  52. Anonymous Says:

    Interesting: two progressive anonymous Canadian commentators. Buddy, don’t know how long you’ve been reading their stuff, but watch out — the American exceptionalism on display here is addictively entertaining. No sense of irony, whatsoever!
    :)

    .

  53. troutsky Says:

    Hey , wasn’t Glen Beck the guy warning us of aluminum tubes from Niger?

  54. Sergey Says:

    Yes, I do believe that crazy murderers must be killed. This is the only way to prevent them from new atrocities and deter their imitators. We dit it in Chechen republic and will do everywhere if needed.

  55. Sergey Says:

    May be, you have heard that yesterday chief Al-Qaeda emissary to North Caucasia, Abu Khamsa, was killed by Russian special forces in Khasavyurt, small Dagestan town near Chechen border. US charged $5 mln bounty for his head.

  56. Sally Says:

    … two progressive anonymous Canadian commentators.

    Hey, now that’s ironic!

  57. Ariel Says:

    “Progressive” and “communist” were synonymous during most of the 20th Century. Recycling a term tied to one of the two most murderous ideologies of that century is ironic.

  58. Anonymous Says:

    Sally, if anybody in this community is blinded by American exceptionalism, it’s you. You may look up a definition of the concept, but you’ll never actually see it.

  59. Sergey Says:

    What is wrong with American exceptionalism, Anon? It is completely justified. You can name any other efficient democracy that survived for two centures? Or any other country comparable by GDP per capita? Or any other state or even group of states with comparable scientific, technologic or cultural impact? I can not. And I am Russian.

  60. Ariel Says:

    Now most of that was just silly. “Black is white”, etc, was just an absurd conclusion.

    If you haven’t read the history of the Communist movement from 1917 on, you wouldn’t know that progressive was used extensively as a cover word or overtly in the various movements, as you seem not to know. I was pointing out the poor choice of terms, which also seems to have escaped you.

    “Ideeologies are murderous.” So did you sleep through the entire 20th Century or what?

    Ideology: the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program. Would fascism be an ideology? Would Communism?

    Quote Susan Sontag: “Communism is fascism with a human face.” No, she is not saying they siegheiled, or sang ”
    Springtime for Hitler” instead of the Internationale, but that in the end Communism was no better.

  61. bugs Says:

    justaguy

    Yeah, commies and islamists are just a scare tactic. Sort of like Nazis back in…wait a minute

  62. Sally Says:

    Islam is the new socialism.

    justa’s speaking for himself when he says that, but he’s inadvertently revealing something that explains quite a bit about much of the contemporary left.

  63. Ariel Says:

    Justa,
    Guess you just can’t read can you? Never said anything about socialism, only the unfortunate choice of the word “progressive” because of how the communists used it, a lot.. If you can’t tell the difference between socialism and communism, then you have a real problem dealing with the world as it is. Noticed you skipped a lot of other things like ideology, guess the definition was just too much sophistry too.

    You know, you make a lot of things up and then say other people say them. The sophistry, unsubstantiated assumptions, and just plain old lying about other people is all out of your mouth and on your head. A real shame.

    Now you can just spew out nastiness or condescension, doesn’t matter to me. You can twist what I’ve said until it’s just another one of your lies. Makes no difference to me either. People that can read can see what your doing.

    By the way, little Susan was a leftist. But then you didn’t know that did you? Because you’re too busy being confused about socialism and communism, and putting words in other people’s mouths so you can prove yourself superior. Hate to tell you, but it doesn’t work that way.

  64. Ymarsakar Says:

    It must drive Neo nuts to have Sergey and me on her blog commenting. Sergey who looks at things in a Russian manner, and I who look at things in an Asian, Sun Tzu-Japanese manner.

    Both coming up with more or less the same conclusions.

    Kill, Kill, Kill, is the mantra.

  65. Anonymous Says:

    What is wrong with American exceptionalism, Anon? It is completely justified.

    Sergey, I know you’re Russian, I’ve read many of your contributions. It goes without saying that Americans have a lot to be proud of and their country is exceptional in many ways. American exceptionalism is a problem when it blinds its advocates and shuts down the discussion. I’d be hard pressed to find a single popular thread in this community where that doesn’t happen. The USA may be exceptional in some ways, but it’s also a lot like other countries.

    If you’re genuinely interested in the problem, please do watch this video. It’s an hour long talk by Howard Zinn, on “The Uses of History and the War on Terrorism.” I linked to it from one of my comments a few days back.

  66. Ymarsakar Says:

    The Arabs indoctrinate their children on the belief that Jews drink their blood and will take out their eyes. Thus creating a fake enemy in order to maintain a vise grip. The proof that people who talk about the “uses of war” are mistaken is that they are tunnel visioned and aren’t paying attention to the real threats. Demonstrated by their focus on the US, but ignoring everyone else. As if the US is all that matters in terms of world power.

  67. Sally Says:

    Sally, do you ever contribute to an argument or is it 100% epithets 100% of the time.

    First there has to be an argument before anyone can contribute to it, justa. But that said, your assertion about Islam being the new socialism was actually an interesting and entirely plausible thesis — though not in a way you intended, which is why my quoting it was a distinct “contribution”.

  68. justaguy Says:

    Sally, when you understand what irony really is, then you may use it. Until then don’t. You just end up sounding childish.

    I suggest an Oxford dictionary, the Americans don’t do irony.

  69. Anonymous Says:

    The Arabs indoctrinate their children on the belief that Jews drink their blood and will take out their eyes. The proof that people who talk about the “uses of war” are mistaken is that they are tunnel visioned and aren’t paying attention to the real threats. Demonstrated by their focus on the US, but ignoring everyone else. As if the US is all that matters in terms of world power.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!

    Just watch the video, for Christ’s sake.

  70. Sally Says:

    Poor anony. He’s a Canadian, and one of the ones who do as they’re told, but don’t like to think of themselves that way. So they tend to fasten on people that their own state media have told them, repeatedly, are modern day saints, though secular of course. And watching a Howard Zinn video is all it takes for him — he simply believes. Like any other fundamentalist, he can’t understand how anyone could hear the word of a Zinn, or a Chomsky, or a Michael Moore, or even a Nader, and not be a fellow believer. Hence his despair and gnashing of teeth.

    Not all Canadians are like him.

  71. Sergey Says:

    Zinn, like Chomsky, is one of these usefull idiots, non-repenting Marxists. I never will listen, watch or read anybody who is stipid enough to believe this crap after 100 000 000 people perished in result of implementing these ideologies. It is utterly immoral and distasteful to defend such ideas now. I would propose to ban this activity by law, just as Holocost denial was banned, and its propagandists imprisoned in Europe recently.

  72. Anonymous Says:

    Ok, that’s a bit disappointing. I was looking forward to the Russian pov.

    Well, this anonymous commentator is splitting. The conversation’s not exactly rewarding, is it?

    If you guys put as much effort into having civil online conversations as you do into shutting them down, this forum could have been interesting.

    Neo-neocon, you write well and could have a better audience. You’re stuck with this combative crowd because you’re working through your envy via a public diary, and trapping yourself inside it, I might add. There’s lots of room to move yet. You might consider forgiving “the left” and expressing some graditude for what they’ve contributed to your life and what they contribute to your country.

    Peace

    .

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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