If we define victory as the complete and utter inability for those with (or without) warped ideologies to cause harm, we will never win, nor will anybody else, ever.

What we can do is ensure that Iraq has a stable government in which most people can lead normal lives in relative freedom. This would be an obivous victory for the Iraqis, but would be a defeat for the terrorists in that we can remove the incentive for their random killings, and a victory for us for countless reasons. Yes, some of the terrorists will never get it, but we can at least remove the incentive some of them have of thinking they can beat the “great Satan” and make car bombings the exception to the rule.

I’m glad you applaud that statement, but you also used it as fodder for criticism. Things wil never be perfect in Iraq (they aren’t even perfect here), but we can’t let perfect be the enemy of better.

Whatever Reid says or doesn’t say in his proposal, he said to the world that we lost the war and excused his comment by distorting Gen. Petraeus’s comments. I neither know nor care whether or not Reid is giving up–I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that he’s hurting our efforts. I can’t reconcile a desire for victory with a declaration of defeat, no matter how detailed his plans.

And as far as “zero car bombs” goes, if you believe that victory in Iraq can be achieved only if not a single person in Iraq is willing and able to take innocent life, then there’s not a society on the planet that hasn’t lost the war…

I hate to say it, but I think you may be dodging again.

Accepting terrorist car bombings in Iraq in your definition of “victory” has nothing to do with establishing a zero murder rate, as you imply.

I applaud Bush’s statement, I think it’s one of the most realistic things he’s said in his entire time in office.

Reid didn’t just pull “no military solution” out of his hiney. According to the Aug 2006 Marine Corps assessment on the situation in al-Anbar province:

“The social and political situation has deteriorated to a point that MNF [Multi-National Forces] and ISF [Iraq Security Forces] are no longer capable of militarily defeating the insurgency in al-Anbar.”

The zeal of the vanguard remains relatively intact – there can be no realistic expectation that AQI will negotiate with the IG [Iraqi Government] or MNF short of accepting absolute surrender and ascension to power. The perceived indecisiveness and moral weakness of both the IG and MNF directly feed the resolve of AQI, as well as the grudging acceptance of AQI by the populace. As long as the status quo between the central government and the al-Anbar Sunni remains, AQI is an intractable problem.

Another realistic statement. You guys watch too much Rambo.

(Speaking of Rambo, did you see that police estimate Cho fired a round every 3 seconds for the last nine minutes of his rampage? And people here had the nerve to criticize the victims for their “lack of survival instinct.”)

Lee, sorry but I am not going to talk to you until you calm down, you are way too excited for me.

regards