Comments on: Gaza: where are the good choices? http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/ Tue, 22 May 2012 20:08:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Lee http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36582 Lee Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:50:53 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36582 Well, it looks like the Palestineans chose (b) for us. Hamas pretty much controls Gaza, with Fatah trying to hold the West Bank. Oh well, you get what you vote for, right, Alphie? Well, it looks like the Palestineans chose (b) for us. Hamas pretty much controls Gaza, with Fatah trying to hold the West Bank.
Oh well, you get what you vote for, right, Alphie?

]]> By: The Thomas Chronicles » Folks, it’s time to hit the panic button… http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36563 The Thomas Chronicles » Folks, it’s time to hit the panic button… Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:40:41 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36563 [...] more coverage, you can check out these commentaries here and here and here and here and [...] [...] more coverage, you can check out these commentaries here and here and here and here and [...]

]]> By: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36548 Tom Grey - Liberty Dad Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:58:35 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36548 As Ymar said, (b) is wrongly phrased -- and I find you wrong so seldom, I feel it important to point out. Because the "unguided violence" meme is how those who supported anti-war protests in Vietnam excuse themselves. "(b) leave illiberal democracy and/or violence to take its unrestricted <b>anti-American, anti-human rights</b> course and at least know what you’re dealing with and try to respond defensively to it." To cease fighting is to accept losing, is to accept the victory of the anti-human rights enemy. Whether Soviet support commie N. Viet liars (Paris???) & murderers, or French educated Chinese supported commie Cambodian killers, or Iranian supported (and rich Saudis?) terrorists and suicide murderers. I fear Tel Aviv will go mushroom (1 in 10 chance in 5 years after Iran gets a nuke). Here are some more alternatives: d) evacuate Israel. Let them all (6m?) become Guest Workers in America (and learn English). e) evacuate the women and children (800k?) of Gaza (and sick & old) -- to Europe, Israel, and the US, temporarily. Until a peace agreement is signed. Czechoslovakia got peace with Germany after sending some 2-3 mil. Sudetenland Germans back to Bavaria (though they had wanted to stay in Germany or Austria after WW I; the Great War was not for democracy). As Ymar said, (b) is wrongly phrased — and I find you wrong so seldom, I feel it important to point out. Because the “unguided violence” meme is how those who supported anti-war protests in Vietnam excuse themselves.

“(b) leave illiberal democracy and/or violence to take its unrestricted anti-American, anti-human rights course and at least know what you’re dealing with and try to respond defensively to it.”

To cease fighting is to accept losing, is to accept the victory of the anti-human rights enemy. Whether Soviet support commie N. Viet liars (Paris???) & murderers, or French educated Chinese supported commie Cambodian killers, or Iranian supported (and rich Saudis?) terrorists and suicide murderers.

I fear Tel Aviv will go mushroom (1 in 10 chance in 5 years after Iran gets a nuke). Here are some more alternatives:
d) evacuate Israel. Let them all (6m?) become Guest Workers in America (and learn English).
e) evacuate the women and children (800k?) of Gaza (and sick & old) — to Europe, Israel, and the US, temporarily. Until a peace agreement is signed.

Czechoslovakia got peace with Germany after sending some 2-3 mil. Sudetenland Germans back to Bavaria (though they had wanted to stay in Germany or Austria after WW I; the Great War was not for democracy).

]]> By: sergey http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36540 sergey Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:20:36 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36540 When I have seen on TV recent Gaza debauch, I can't but remember pictures and news from Groznuy some years ago. Chechnya was just like this. At first, Russia attempted option (c), but failed because of demoralized army and lack of popular support at home - almost all Russian liberal intelligentsia was anti-war. Then, after troops withdrawal and peace agreements, de facto option (b) was tried. It failed too, because no single point of agreements was fulfilled by Chechen rebels (honestly, no one expected them to comply, and Khasavyurt treaty was only face-saving device). Elected president Aslan Maschadov had no more power in Chechnya than Abbas in Gaza, and real power was in hands of terrorist warlords like Basaev. The rebel republic evolved into anarchy of rival gangs: in absence of law and order every "democracy" pretty quickly degenerates into just that. Containment also failed, the cancer began spread and metastasizing. And at last, after Second Chechen war, the option (a) was adopted. It works, at least much better than the earlier options. The lesson is that: if you have guts, choose option (c), but understand that it means classical colonialism in old British style, and it can be successful only combined with classical Victorian moral, White Men's Burden, jingoism and total refutation of neo-liberal ideology in all its aspects, including multiculturalism, PC, human rights idolatry and pacifism. All these idеe fixe should be completely discarded. Brace for decades of colonial wars, punitive expeditions, and resurrection of imperialism with all its cultural consequences. If you have no guts for this, agree to the option (a), as Russia had to. Neo-liberalism still must be thrown to dogs, but not to such extent, and anti-American elements in media and academia still must be labeled traitors as they are, ostracized and silenced, just as commies in USA at the dawn of Cold War. When I have seen on TV recent Gaza debauch, I can’t but remember pictures and news from Groznuy some years ago. Chechnya was just like this. At first, Russia attempted option (c), but failed because of demoralized army and lack of popular support at home – almost all Russian liberal intelligentsia was anti-war. Then, after troops withdrawal and peace agreements, de facto option (b) was tried. It failed too, because no single point of agreements was fulfilled by Chechen rebels (honestly, no one expected them to comply, and Khasavyurt treaty was only face-saving device). Elected president Aslan Maschadov had no more power in Chechnya than Abbas in Gaza, and real power was in hands of terrorist warlords like Basaev. The rebel republic evolved into anarchy of rival gangs: in absence of law and order every “democracy” pretty quickly degenerates into just that. Containment also failed, the cancer began spread and metastasizing. And at last, after Second Chechen war, the option (a) was adopted. It works, at least much better than the earlier options.
The lesson is that: if you have guts, choose option (c), but understand that it means classical colonialism in old British style, and it can be successful only combined with classical Victorian moral, White Men’s Burden, jingoism and total refutation of neo-liberal ideology in all its aspects, including multiculturalism, PC, human rights idolatry and pacifism. All these idеe fixe should be completely discarded. Brace for decades of colonial wars, punitive expeditions, and resurrection of imperialism with all its cultural consequences.
If you have no guts for this, agree to the option (a), as Russia had to. Neo-liberalism still must be thrown to dogs, but not to such extent, and anti-American elements in media and academia still must be labeled traitors as they are, ostracized and silenced, just as commies in USA at the dawn of Cold War.

]]> By: Not_Ever_A_Neocon http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36539 Not_Ever_A_Neocon Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:55:39 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36539 Interestng it wouldn't let me post the youtube links. <a HREF="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2286446340522429676&total=84&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2" rel="nofollow">Video_Links</a> Interestng it wouldn’t let me post the youtube links.

Video_Links

]]> By: Huan http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36504 Huan Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:13:30 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36504 Let the Palestinians in Gaza suffer until they crave the peace and prosperity Israel offered. Then and only then simulataneously smash Hamas in "Palestine", Hezbolla in Lebanon, and Syria as well. This is all results of Iran's play and the way to deal with Iran is to smash their fingers in the Eastern Mediterranean. Let the Palestinians in Gaza suffer until they crave the peace and prosperity Israel offered.
Then and only then simulataneously smash Hamas in “Palestine”, Hezbolla in Lebanon, and Syria as well.
This is all results of Iran’s play and the way to deal with Iran is to smash their fingers in the Eastern Mediterranean.

]]> By: Next Stop Lauderdale http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36502 Next Stop Lauderdale Sat, 16 Jun 2007 03:13:24 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36502 You know, maybe like the Sunni, Shia and Kurds that a 3 state in "Palestine" should be considered. Israel, Gazastine and Trans-Jordanastine. This might squelch the debate for a continuous corridor and a split of Jerusalem. Further it would divide the "opposition" and their primary "hate" would focus on eachother. Also, maybe the world whould have what they want. Israel not being the "oppressors" of the Palestinians and then the world can see that the "oppressors" were maybe the best thing that ever happened to them. I say all this with a bit of toungue in cheek, but I can't help wondering how the world is going to rationalize this little example of the Palestinian Homeland. .......... steve You know, maybe like the Sunni, Shia and Kurds that a 3 state in “Palestine” should be considered. Israel, Gazastine and Trans-Jordanastine.

This might squelch the debate for a continuous corridor and a split of Jerusalem. Further it would divide the “opposition” and their primary “hate” would focus on eachother. Also, maybe the world whould have what they want. Israel not being the “oppressors” of the Palestinians and then the world can see that the “oppressors” were maybe the best thing that ever happened to them.

I say all this with a bit of toungue in cheek, but I can’t help wondering how the world is going to rationalize this little example of the Palestinian Homeland. ………. steve

]]> By: J. Baker http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36500 J. Baker Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:54:19 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36500 badeagle.comIf allowed, Israel can take care of herself, God willing. The problem is that Israel, like the rest of the West, seems bent on cultural suicide and is unwilling to face the enemy head on. Just witness last years war. In Europe multiculturalism and PC is destroying the West ability to defend itself against a growing Muslim internal population. In the US, we have a growing Mexican separatist movement in the Southwest with complicity of the Mexican government and some of our own officials seem hell bent on increasing the ranks of the Reconquistadors. Did anyone happen to notice that the Mayor of LA, a former MEChA member, was in a meeting in Mexico when the police controversially ran the protestors out of the park recently in LA? One of the things I find most interesting about the Treaty of Hidalgo that ended the Mexican- American War of 1848 is that the natives are mentioned in the third person. Seems much of that land we stole from Mexico was actually still owned by a number of tribes who did not consider themselves Mexican, either. Not saying we were innocent at all, we treated a lot of people bad, just that the Mexican claim was based mostly off of an old Spanish land grab. I am quickly becoming a paleo-con. I could care little about Gaza. (I do feel sorry for the children, though.) I think we have a bigger problem at home than most neo-cons seem to realize. Especially those not in the southwest. http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004848.htm http://www.badeagle.com/html/brown_father.html http://historicaldocuments.com/TreatyofGuadalupeHidalgo.htm badeagle.comIf allowed, Israel can take care of herself, God willing. The problem is that Israel, like the rest of the West, seems bent on cultural suicide and is unwilling to face the enemy head on. Just witness last years war. In Europe multiculturalism and PC is destroying the West ability to defend itself against a growing Muslim internal population. In the US, we have a growing Mexican separatist movement in the Southwest with complicity of the Mexican government and some of our own officials seem hell bent on increasing the ranks of the Reconquistadors. Did anyone happen to notice that the Mayor of LA, a former MEChA member, was in a meeting in Mexico when the police controversially ran the protestors out of the park recently in LA?
One of the things I find most interesting about the Treaty of Hidalgo that ended the Mexican- American War of 1848 is that the natives are mentioned in the third person. Seems much of that land we stole from Mexico was actually still owned by a number of tribes who did not consider themselves Mexican, either. Not saying we were innocent at all, we treated a lot of people bad, just that the Mexican claim was based mostly off of an old Spanish land grab.
I am quickly becoming a paleo-con. I could care little about Gaza. (I do feel sorry for the children, though.) I think we have a bigger problem at home than most neo-cons seem to realize. Especially those not in the southwest.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004848.htm

http://www.badeagle.com/html/brown_father.html

http://historicaldocuments.com/TreatyofGuadalupeHidalgo.htm

]]> By: War Against Iran | Ocean Guy http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36499 War Against Iran | Ocean Guy Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:35:40 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36499 [...] In a post that mirrors some thoughts I had while composing this, Neo-neocon has clearly… succinctly laid out our choices when faced with unstable, even violent governments. They are our choices in Iraq, Israel’s [...] [...] In a post that mirrors some thoughts I had while composing this, Neo-neocon has clearly… succinctly laid out our choices when faced with unstable, even violent governments. They are our choices in Iraq, Israel’s [...]

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36498 Ymarsakar Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:30:21 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/06/15/gaza-where-are-the-good-choices/#comment-36498 I think you'll lke this out of topic picture about Ballet, Neo. And the side story that goes with it. http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2007/06/15/i-knew-her-when/ I think you’ll lke this out of topic picture about Ballet, Neo. And the side story that goes with it.

http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2007/06/15/i-knew-her-when/

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