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	<title>Comments on: Brian Baird comes out for giving the surge a chance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/</link>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-41236</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 07:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-41236</guid>
		<description>The bottom line is that Brian Baird got to see and talk to only the people that the Pentagon let him see and talk to.
He did not hire his own independent interpreters and go out and wander around somewhere on his own in Iraq, I can guarantee that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bottom line is that Brian Baird got to see and talk to only the people that the Pentagon let him see and talk to.<br />
He did not hire his own independent interpreters and go out and wander around somewhere on his own in Iraq, I can guarantee that.</p>
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		<title>By: Chapomatic</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40639</link>
		<dc:creator>Chapomatic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 04:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40639</guid>
		<description>[...] interesting discussion on Rep. Baird, who surprised some folks this week with an op-ed with conclusions that I generally [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting discussion on Rep. Baird, who surprised some folks this week with an op-ed with conclusions that I generally [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40586</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a thin line between what a Constitution might say and what the realities of the ground are. As we can see with Chavez&#039;s reign of terror. The Constitution makes it harder for people to go apeshit, yes, but it won&#039;t automatically turn a situation that has been engineered to be favorable to our enemies, into a situation favorable to us.

Our enemies have had a long experience with subverting and distorting the words of good men and women into the tools of tyranny and slavery, more experience than we have with beating back such darkness.

The International Red Cross was founded by a man that saw the carnage of the American Civil War first hand and the conditions on many other battlefields. Yet, look at the IRC now. An organization designed to standardize care and ensure that doctors would not be targeted, because it was already hard trying to save the lives of soldiers in tents full with the buzzing of flies and the crawling of maggots.

In fact, evil can do greater harm by hiding their motivations behind the mask of Goodness. Nobody is going to support Nazism, because it has been shown for what it is. Yet people will follow other organizations with the same intentions, such as the ACLU or CAIR, because they believe them to be good. Using a Constitution as justification for subversive actions can make such actions even more harmful, GC.

The forces of evil are very tricky, deceptive, and cautious. In some ways, we must think in the same ways if we are to face them and their allies.

This goes against the core of good men and women, who believe that honesty and transparency is the way to go. Yet there is no justification for refusing to use tools that might benefit others simply because those tools are distasteful. If necessary, I would even support the use of the Left, regardless of the amount of blood such tools acquired in Vietnam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a thin line between what a Constitution might say and what the realities of the ground are. As we can see with Chavez&#8217;s reign of terror. The Constitution makes it harder for people to go apeshit, yes, but it won&#8217;t automatically turn a situation that has been engineered to be favorable to our enemies, into a situation favorable to us.</p>
<p>Our enemies have had a long experience with subverting and distorting the words of good men and women into the tools of tyranny and slavery, more experience than we have with beating back such darkness.</p>
<p>The International Red Cross was founded by a man that saw the carnage of the American Civil War first hand and the conditions on many other battlefields. Yet, look at the IRC now. An organization designed to standardize care and ensure that doctors would not be targeted, because it was already hard trying to save the lives of soldiers in tents full with the buzzing of flies and the crawling of maggots.</p>
<p>In fact, evil can do greater harm by hiding their motivations behind the mask of Goodness. Nobody is going to support Nazism, because it has been shown for what it is. Yet people will follow other organizations with the same intentions, such as the ACLU or CAIR, because they believe them to be good. Using a Constitution as justification for subversive actions can make such actions even more harmful, GC.</p>
<p>The forces of evil are very tricky, deceptive, and cautious. In some ways, we must think in the same ways if we are to face them and their allies.</p>
<p>This goes against the core of good men and women, who believe that honesty and transparency is the way to go. Yet there is no justification for refusing to use tools that might benefit others simply because those tools are distasteful. If necessary, I would even support the use of the Left, regardless of the amount of blood such tools acquired in Vietnam.</p>
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		<title>By: gcotharn</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40569</link>
		<dc:creator>gcotharn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 02:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40569</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m kinda with ya.  But, if they bring down the government, they will do it according to provisions in the Iraq Constitution.  It will be legal and constitionally provided for action.  So that makes me feel a little bit better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m kinda with ya.  But, if they bring down the government, they will do it according to provisions in the Iraq Constitution.  It will be legal and constitionally provided for action.  So that makes me feel a little bit better.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40562</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40562</guid>
		<description>I think Krauthammer might be underestimating the finicky political situation in Iraq, one where alliances and coalitions form the power base. I don&#039;t think it is going to matter what leader is there, if that leader lacks a power base. And you get power bases by doing what Massoud and Karzai did, which is to lead revolutionary or guerrila wars and win them.

I don&#039;t want to hear talk about bringing down the government, because the last time that happened was with Diem. I am not confident the US has the intel, the intelligence, or the wisdom to know what is safe or unsafe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Krauthammer might be underestimating the finicky political situation in Iraq, one where alliances and coalitions form the power base. I don&#8217;t think it is going to matter what leader is there, if that leader lacks a power base. And you get power bases by doing what Massoud and Karzai did, which is to lead revolutionary or guerrila wars and win them.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to hear talk about bringing down the government, because the last time that happened was with Diem. I am not confident the US has the intel, the intelligence, or the wisdom to know what is safe or unsafe.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Douglas</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40557</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40557</guid>
		<description>Great article...I wish more Democrats could think so clearly!

Here&#039;s my post on Markos Moulitas&#039; Trojan Horse pragmatism:

http://burkeanreflections.blogspot.com/2007/08/trojan-horse-pragmatism-markos.html

Have a great weekend!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article&#8230;I wish more Democrats could think so clearly!</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my post on Markos Moulitas&#8217; Trojan Horse pragmatism:</p>
<p><a href="http://burkeanreflections.blogspot.com/2007/08/trojan-horse-pragmatism-markos.html" rel="nofollow">http://burkeanreflections.blogspot.com/2007/08/trojan-horse-pragmatism-markos.html</a></p>
<p>Have a great weekend!</p>
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		<title>By: AMac</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40555</link>
		<dc:creator>AMac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40555</guid>
		<description>You might be interested to read a brief account of Rep. Baird&#039;s meeting with Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker in Baghdad last week.  Wes Morgan has embedded with the U.S. military under the auspices of  Bill Roggio of &lt;a href=&quot;http://billroggio.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Fourth Rail&lt;/a&gt;, about the best journalism/blogging site for learning about operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://billroggio.com/archives/2007/08/touring_with_gen_pet.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Morgan&#039;s account:&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;My final event of the day before leaving the embassy was unexpected – Gen. Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker were briefing a delegation of three Congressmen, and they permitted me... to sit in. [One of them,] Washington Democrat Brian Bird (sic), stunned me with his knowledge of the situation in Iraq, reasonable perspective on the surge and Iraqi political process, and above all his suggestions for Petraeus&#039; September visit to DC and how he could make sure that the American people understand the message of his report.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might be interested to read a brief account of Rep. Baird&#8217;s meeting with Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker in Baghdad last week.  Wes Morgan has embedded with the U.S. military under the auspices of  Bill Roggio of <a href="http://billroggio.com/" rel="nofollow">The Fourth Rail</a>, about the best journalism/blogging site for learning about operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.</p>
<p><a href="http://billroggio.com/archives/2007/08/touring_with_gen_pet.php" rel="nofollow">Morgan&#8217;s account:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>My final event of the day before leaving the embassy was unexpected – Gen. Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker were briefing a delegation of three Congressmen, and they permitted me&#8230; to sit in. [One of them,] Washington Democrat Brian Bird (sic), stunned me with his knowledge of the situation in Iraq, reasonable perspective on the surge and Iraqi political process, and above all his suggestions for Petraeus&#8217; September visit to DC and how he could make sure that the American people understand the message of his report.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: gcotharn</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40552</link>
		<dc:creator>gcotharn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40552</guid>
		<description>Xanthippas: you may feel deservedly honored to be taken seriously in this comments section, as opposed to being dismissed out of hand. However, the honor of being taken seriously means you will be seriously challenged.

You wrote:
&lt;i&gt;This soldier’s idea of “progress” is one of increased security, but the progress in even this field has been sporadic and limited geographically, at best.&lt;/i&gt;

First:  it is nice of you to admit that &quot;progress&quot; is happening!

Second:  progress in war is almost always sporadic.  &quot;Sporadic&quot; &quot;progress&quot; does not constitute a reason to surrender.

Third:  &quot;limited geographically&quot; is an invalid measure of progress in a desert nation with  unevenly distributed population.

Moving on...
You wrote:
&lt;i&gt;Progress in bringing long-term stability to the country via some political reconciliation among the warring parties? It’s not happening, and even venerable neo-cons like Charles Krauthammer agree with that.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m guessing you are referencing today&#039;s Krauthammer column, which I found at NRO.  While Krauthammer says national political reconciliation is not happening at this exact moment, he also asserts that it could happen in the future - if the Maliki government is replaced.  Maybe you had  read a Dowdified quote on another blogsite, and had not read Krauthammer&#039;s entire context.  Krauthammer:

&lt;i&gt;Serious people like Levin argue that with a nonfunctional and sectarian Baghdad government, we can never achieve national reconciliation. Thus the current military successes will prove ephemeral.

The problem with this argument is that it confuses long term and short term. In the longer run, there must be a national unity government. But in the shorter term, our assumption that a national unity government is required to pacify the Sunni insurgency turned out to be false. The Sunnis have turned against al Qaeda and are gradually switching sides in the absence of any oil, federalism, or de-Baathification deal coming out of Baghdad. 
[...]
We should have given up on Maliki long ago and begun to work with other parties in the Iraqi Parliament to bring down the government, yielding either a new coalition of less sectarian parties or, as Pollack has suggested, new elections.

The choice is difficult because replacing the Maliki government will take time and because there is no guarantee of ultimate political success. Nonetheless, continuing the surge while finally trying to change the central government is the most rational choice because the only available alternative is defeat — a defeat that is not at all inevitable and would be both catastrophic and self-inflicted. 
 &lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xanthippas: you may feel deservedly honored to be taken seriously in this comments section, as opposed to being dismissed out of hand. However, the honor of being taken seriously means you will be seriously challenged.</p>
<p>You wrote:<br />
<i>This soldier’s idea of “progress” is one of increased security, but the progress in even this field has been sporadic and limited geographically, at best.</i></p>
<p>First:  it is nice of you to admit that &#8220;progress&#8221; is happening!</p>
<p>Second:  progress in war is almost always sporadic.  &#8220;Sporadic&#8221; &#8220;progress&#8221; does not constitute a reason to surrender.</p>
<p>Third:  &#8220;limited geographically&#8221; is an invalid measure of progress in a desert nation with  unevenly distributed population.</p>
<p>Moving on&#8230;<br />
You wrote:<br />
<i>Progress in bringing long-term stability to the country via some political reconciliation among the warring parties? It’s not happening, and even venerable neo-cons like Charles Krauthammer agree with that.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing you are referencing today&#8217;s Krauthammer column, which I found at NRO.  While Krauthammer says national political reconciliation is not happening at this exact moment, he also asserts that it could happen in the future &#8211; if the Maliki government is replaced.  Maybe you had  read a Dowdified quote on another blogsite, and had not read Krauthammer&#8217;s entire context.  Krauthammer:</p>
<p><i>Serious people like Levin argue that with a nonfunctional and sectarian Baghdad government, we can never achieve national reconciliation. Thus the current military successes will prove ephemeral.</p>
<p>The problem with this argument is that it confuses long term and short term. In the longer run, there must be a national unity government. But in the shorter term, our assumption that a national unity government is required to pacify the Sunni insurgency turned out to be false. The Sunnis have turned against al Qaeda and are gradually switching sides in the absence of any oil, federalism, or de-Baathification deal coming out of Baghdad.<br />
[...]<br />
We should have given up on Maliki long ago and begun to work with other parties in the Iraqi Parliament to bring down the government, yielding either a new coalition of less sectarian parties or, as Pollack has suggested, new elections.</p>
<p>The choice is difficult because replacing the Maliki government will take time and because there is no guarantee of ultimate political success. Nonetheless, continuing the surge while finally trying to change the central government is the most rational choice because the only available alternative is defeat — a defeat that is not at all inevitable and would be both catastrophic and self-inflicted.<br />
 </i></p>
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		<title>By: The Den Mother</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40544</link>
		<dc:creator>The Den Mother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40544</guid>
		<description>&quot;What devoted professional in any field will quit before forced to admit abject defeat?&quot;

I think you&#039;re asking the wrong question.  Try this one:  What devoted professional in any field would beg for more of a chance to spin his/her wheels, at considerable risk to both him/herself and others, with no possibility of success?  The quote is not from someone who is saying he doesn&#039;t want to quit.  It&#039;s from someone who sees that he &lt;i&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; just spinning his wheels, that there &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a chance to succeed, and that the risk to himself and his colleagues is worth the continued effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What devoted professional in any field will quit before forced to admit abject defeat?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re asking the wrong question.  Try this one:  What devoted professional in any field would beg for more of a chance to spin his/her wheels, at considerable risk to both him/herself and others, with no possibility of success?  The quote is not from someone who is saying he doesn&#8217;t want to quit.  It&#8217;s from someone who sees that he <i>isn&#8217;t</i> just spinning his wheels, that there <i>is</i> a chance to succeed, and that the risk to himself and his colleagues is worth the continued effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40542</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/08/24/brian-baird-comes-out-for-giving-the-surge-a-chance/#comment-40542</guid>
		<description>I would recommend reading Doug L&#039;s Star Wars article, Neo. They give you a good glimpse into the psychology of victory, defeat, and how it affected the Left during Vietnam. One of your specialties, I believe ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would recommend reading Doug L&#8217;s Star Wars article, Neo. They give you a good glimpse into the psychology of victory, defeat, and how it affected the Left during Vietnam. One of your specialties, I believe ; )</p>
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