Comments on: Bhutto’s back http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/ Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:54:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: vanderleun http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44608 vanderleun Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:47:19 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44608 My Bhutto's back and you're gonna be in trouble! (Hey-la-day-la my Bhutto's back) You see Bhutto comin' better cut out on the double! (Hey-la-day-la my Bhutto's back) You been spreading lies that Bhutto was untrue! (Hey-la-day-la my Bhutto's back) So look out now cause she's comin' after you! My Bhutto’s back and you’re gonna be in trouble!
(Hey-la-day-la my Bhutto’s back)
You see Bhutto comin’ better cut out on the double!
(Hey-la-day-la my Bhutto’s back)
You been spreading lies that Bhutto was untrue!
(Hey-la-day-la my Bhutto’s back)
So look out now cause she’s comin’ after you!

]]> By: DC http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44617 DC Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:24:23 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44617 Bhutto the best looking head of state ever? That’s a long time, what about Cleopatra? Also you don’t get much of a look at female Muslim heads of state so how do we really know? Queen Elizabeth II is a head of state, here’s an old image of a young Queen: http://www.raabcollection.com/_images/inventory/manuscripts/large_Elizabeth8357.jpg Bhutto the best looking head of state ever? That’s a long time, what about Cleopatra? Also you don’t get much of a look at female Muslim heads of state so how do we really know? Queen Elizabeth II is a head of state, here’s an old image of a young Queen:
http://www.raabcollection.com/_images/inventory/manuscripts/large_Elizabeth8357.jpg

]]> By: Cappy http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44619 Cappy Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:03:19 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44619 I dunno. That babe in Ukrania is pretty hot. I dunno. That babe in Ukrania is pretty hot.

]]> By: Lee http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44627 Lee Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:21:35 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44627 Well, it's already started... Seems a suicide bomber has already tried to take her out. She apparently was uninjured. Well, it’s already started…
Seems a suicide bomber has already tried to take her out. She apparently was uninjured.

]]> By: Donald Wolberg http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44631 Donald Wolberg Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:48:51 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44631 Pakistan is one of those fasciating case studies that forever generate theses and dissertations in political science, history and economics. If one looks at the progress of the much more complex situation in India, one needs to ask why Pakistan has failed so badly in comparison. India, as the largest democracy, despite the scores of languages, amazing disparate social structure, maze of religions, number of political parties, even the number of terror acts and political assasinations survives and indeed thrives. the contrast is stark and disturbing. Pakistan is one of those fasciating case studies that forever generate theses and dissertations in political science, history and economics. If one looks at the progress of the much more complex situation in India, one needs to ask why Pakistan has failed so badly in comparison. India, as the largest democracy, despite the scores of languages, amazing disparate social structure, maze of religions, number of political parties, even the number of terror acts and political assasinations survives and indeed thrives. the contrast is stark and disturbing.

]]> By: camojack http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44638 camojack Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:37:49 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44638 <i>"It’s a plan that sounds as good as Benazir looks—and that’s pretty good, since Benazir is undoubtedly the best-looking female head of state ever"</i> She looks a <b>lot</b> like my ex-wife...but she's probably much more stable, emotionally. “It’s a plan that sounds as good as Benazir looks—and that’s pretty good, since Benazir is undoubtedly the best-looking female head of state ever”

She looks a lot like my ex-wife…but she’s probably much more stable, emotionally.

]]> By: sergey http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44641 sergey Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:22:53 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44641 Bhutto was a nice public face for the most corrupt gang of treasury looters in history. The unique case when the ruling class did pretty nothing except looting and demagogy. What is not unique that in this country only military have some sense of discipline, honor and patriotism. Every other institution of state is rotten through and throuth, like it was in Chile before Pinochet. Bhutto was a nice public face for the most corrupt gang of treasury looters in history. The unique case when the ruling class did pretty nothing except looting and demagogy. What is not unique that in this country only military have some sense of discipline, honor and patriotism. Every other institution of state is rotten through and throuth, like it was in Chile before Pinochet.

]]> By: sergey http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44643 sergey Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:07:12 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44643 The contrast between Pakistan and India can be explained only by inherent traits of Muslim tribal culture. Both countries were under British rule applied uniformly, but India was able to use advantages of common law and Western administrative methods, but Pakistan was not. Workable democracy needs long radius of trust. In Muslim or tribal societies people can trust only blood relatives, so corruption is not an anomaly, but the way of life. All civil servants take bribes, and the higher rank of bureaucracy, the higher sums are. The whole state machine becames a mechanism of looting. Only military stay away from this scum due to discipline and sense of honor. The contrast between Pakistan and India can be explained only by inherent traits of Muslim tribal culture. Both countries were under British rule applied uniformly, but India was able to use advantages of common law and Western administrative methods, but Pakistan was not. Workable democracy needs long radius of trust. In Muslim or tribal societies people can trust only blood relatives, so corruption is not an anomaly, but the way of life. All civil servants take bribes, and the higher rank of bureaucracy, the higher sums are. The whole state machine becames a mechanism of looting. Only military stay away from this scum due to discipline and sense of honor.

]]> By: Die Realität http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44648 Die Realität Fri, 19 Oct 2007 11:33:46 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44648 Hey there! We would like to invite you to participate in our transatlantic blogsphere, and ad your blog soo to the blogroll. it seems you allready know some of the participants (your blogroll). your blog's not only looking beautiful, but really professional in it's analysis of difficult themes. united we stand! bye. Blogteam from Switzerland "Die Realität" Hey there!

We would like to invite you to participate in our transatlantic blogsphere, and ad your blog soo to the blogroll.

it seems you allready know some of the participants (your blogroll).

your blog’s not only looking beautiful, but really professional in it’s analysis of difficult themes.

united we stand!

bye.

Blogteam from Switzerland
“Die Realität”

]]> By: Americaneocon http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44653 Americaneocon Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:53:57 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44653 One irony, really, of Pakistan under Musharraf, is that some are arguing for a stronman in his mold in Iraq - maybe there's great stability in a regime like that. Yet, Bhutto's return, with the bombing, shows how frightening genuine reform democracy is to the al Qaeda barbarians. So maybe a strongman, from the terrorist' perspective, is seen as actually the most compliant, especially if the military in a regime like Pakistan's becomes infiltrated with coddlers of the forces of nihilist terrorism. Interesting, in any case... Also, I'm passing along this link on the regrouping of neoconservatism: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-heilbrunn19oct19,0,1500804.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions A great morning read, with promising implications! One irony, really, of Pakistan under Musharraf, is that some are arguing for a stronman in his mold in Iraq - maybe there’s great stability in a regime like that.

Yet, Bhutto’s return, with the bombing, shows how frightening genuine reform democracy is to the al Qaeda barbarians. So maybe a strongman, from the terrorist’ perspective, is seen as actually the most compliant, especially if the military in a regime like Pakistan’s becomes infiltrated with coddlers of the forces of nihilist terrorism.

Interesting, in any case…

Also, I’m passing along this link on the regrouping of neoconservatism:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-heilbrunn19oct19,0,1500804.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

A great morning read, with promising implications!

]]> By: sergey http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44655 sergey Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:45:53 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44655 No foreign force can install strongman of this kind by its own choice. The man must be popular with army, as was Napoleon or Pinochet, or Mustafa Kemal: initially at last army is his only power base. But Iraqi army cease to exist after toppling Saddam, and even if it didn't, its reputation among general population excludes its using as a political force. No foreign force can install strongman of this kind by its own choice. The man must be popular with army, as was Napoleon or Pinochet, or Mustafa Kemal: initially at last army is his only power base. But Iraqi army cease to exist after toppling Saddam, and even if it didn’t, its reputation among general population excludes its using as a political force.

]]> By: Xanthippas http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44664 Xanthippas Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:43:43 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44664 <i>The thrust of Peters’ column is to explain that, although Musharraf is far from perfect, his rule has amassed a better record than Bhutto’s, and that civilian leaders are not automatically to be preferred to military ones.</i> Peters is a fool. Yes, civilian leaders are <i>automatically</i> preferable to military leaders, because you can kick the civilians out. See, modern Pakistan for an example of how military rule works. Or alternatively, Burma. Americaneocon, Musharref has been a strong man, but has he been a particularly effective one? Yes military regimes are stable, by virtue of the fact that they repress rival political movements. But they are highly unstable when they finally collapse; democracy is inherently more stable than military dictatorship. As to corruption, I recommend an article in the most recent Atlantic for an example of how easily corruption has permeated the Pakistani military. Remember, power corrupts, regardless of whether you're wearing a suit or a uniform. As to Americaneocons points about the militants fear of democracy, I agree with that completely. They fear it because they know that a true democratic Pakistan will deal with them considerably more harshly than Musharref has while at the same time sapping them of the moderate Muslims who might be inclined to support them against the dictatorship. The thrust of Peters’ column is to explain that, although Musharraf is far from perfect, his rule has amassed a better record than Bhutto’s, and that civilian leaders are not automatically to be preferred to military ones.

Peters is a fool. Yes, civilian leaders are automatically preferable to military leaders, because you can kick the civilians out. See, modern Pakistan for an example of how military rule works. Or alternatively, Burma.

Americaneocon, Musharref has been a strong man, but has he been a particularly effective one? Yes military regimes are stable, by virtue of the fact that they repress rival political movements. But they are highly unstable when they finally collapse; democracy is inherently more stable than military dictatorship.

As to corruption, I recommend an article in the most recent Atlantic for an example of how easily corruption has permeated the Pakistani military. Remember, power corrupts, regardless of whether you’re wearing a suit or a uniform.

As to Americaneocons points about the militants fear of democracy, I agree with that completely. They fear it because they know that a true democratic Pakistan will deal with them considerably more harshly than Musharref has while at the same time sapping them of the moderate Muslims who might be inclined to support them against the dictatorship.

]]> By: sergey http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44696 sergey Sat, 20 Oct 2007 08:48:27 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44696 "Democracy is inherently more stable than military dictatorship". Only if democracy is possible, which is not the case in Pakistan and majority of Muslim societies. "you can kick the civilians out". Sometimes the kicking out requires military coup or, worse, civil war. In Turkey military is the only guard of secularism, just as in Egypt and Algeria. Without military grip on the government these states would pretty soon became islamist, as it happened in Gaza. IMHO, it is much more easy to wipe out of the map any Muslim country than make it democratic. “Democracy is inherently more stable than military dictatorship”. Only if democracy is possible, which is not the case in Pakistan and majority of Muslim societies.
“you can kick the civilians out”. Sometimes the kicking out requires military coup or, worse, civil war. In Turkey military is the only guard of secularism, just as in Egypt and Algeria. Without military grip on the government these states would pretty soon became islamist, as it happened in Gaza.
IMHO, it is much more easy to wipe out of the map any Muslim country than make it democratic.

]]> By: warren currier http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44708 warren currier Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:55:59 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44708 She's back because she loves the spotlight and she's greedy for more billions of usd. Only Musharraf and the rmy can provide her the protection she'll need to stay alive until she leaves on her next holiday, which should be soon. She's a greedy bitch who has ruined her family name while plundering the nation's wealth. Pakistan needs to continue to rebuild its foreign reserves (with her far away from the till) and get busy building their economy along with preparing for more earthquakes, floods, draughts, food shortages. If you hold a true election today neither she nor Mush wins. She’s back because she loves the spotlight and she’s greedy for more billions of usd.

Only Musharraf and the rmy can provide her the protection she’ll need to stay alive until she leaves on her next holiday, which should be soon.

She’s a greedy bitch who has ruined her family name while plundering the nation’s wealth.

Pakistan needs to continue to rebuild its foreign reserves (with her far away from the till) and get busy building their economy along with preparing for more earthquakes, floods, draughts, food shortages.

If you hold a true election today neither she nor Mush wins.

]]> By: warren currier http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44709 warren currier Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:01:25 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44709 a correction: "Only Musharraf and the army can provide her the protection..." a correction:

“Only Musharraf and the army can provide her the protection…”

]]> By: Islam skeptic http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44742 Islam skeptic Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:17:09 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44742 <i>It’s a plan that sounds as good as Benazir looks</i> It might <i>sound</i> good, but in reality it <i>is not</i> good, considering the fact that it doesn't take into account the actual nature of Islam, as "the reconciliation of the values of Islam and the West" and "a moderate and modern Islam that marginalizes religious extremists" are impossibilities. It’s a plan that sounds as good as Benazir looks

It might sound good, but in reality it is not good, considering the fact that it doesn’t take into account the actual nature of Islam, as “the reconciliation of the values of Islam and the West” and “a moderate and modern Islam that marginalizes religious extremists” are impossibilities.

]]> By: Ymarsakar http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44753 Ymarsakar Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:28:57 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-44753 <b>“Democracy is inherently more stable than military dictatorship”.</b> Democracy when it is just starting off, has many many wars and deaths that it causes. For America alone, people died because of the difference between a republic and a monarchy. Then plenty more died when the Native Americans allied with the British in Canada to attempt to push Americans back. We're not even mentioning what came afterwards. What people know as "democracy" in this day and age is in actuality the Golden Age secured by two American nuclear bombs, the American military umbrella, and the American military supremacy on land, air, and sea. Economic might and control also plays a part, since people would much rather take money from America than fight in wars that might get them killed. Wars are begun because people on one side or the other wanted something, after all. When America says no, you can't take over your neighbor's country, other methods must be used. Like the UN and oil for food. Can't war your way to power and wealth, then might as well bribe folks. And if the US will actually give you money for talking about democracy, then that's good too. Even Europe would still be fighting, democracy or not, without the United States keeping the peace on that continent. “Democracy is inherently more stable than military dictatorship”.

Democracy when it is just starting off, has many many wars and deaths that it causes. For America alone, people died because of the difference between a republic and a monarchy. Then plenty more died when the Native Americans allied with the British in Canada to attempt to push Americans back. We’re not even mentioning what came afterwards.

What people know as “democracy” in this day and age is in actuality the Golden Age secured by two American nuclear bombs, the American military umbrella, and the American military supremacy on land, air, and sea. Economic might and control also plays a part, since people would much rather take money from America than fight in wars that might get them killed. Wars are begun because people on one side or the other wanted something, after all. When America says no, you can’t take over your neighbor’s country, other methods must be used. Like the UN and oil for food. Can’t war your way to power and wealth, then might as well bribe folks. And if the US will actually give you money for talking about democracy, then that’s good too.

Even Europe would still be fighting, democracy or not, without the United States keeping the peace on that continent.

]]> By: blog http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-48831 blog Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:37:11 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-48831 <strong>hello...</strong> usefull... hello…

usefull…

]]> By: Just to do, and die « Likelihood of Success http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-51079 Just to do, and die « Likelihood of Success Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:30:42 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2007/10/18/bhuttos-back/#comment-51079 [...] have been an inevitability. . . .Whatever you may think of Bhutto’s politics (my recent take is here), it’s impossible to argue with her [...] […] have been an inevitability. . . .Whatever you may think of Bhutto’s politics (my recent take is here), it’s impossible to argue with her […]

]]>