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	<title>Comments on: Just wondering&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45862</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45862</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;All articles do not account for the fact that the Sunni tribal ousting of Al Qaeda is no indication that those tribes will help the central government in Iraq.&lt;/b&gt;

Since when did the detractors of Iraq start supporting centralized government? Do they treat domestic matters in the US with the same bias? No.

This stuff is meaningless given that people aren&#039;t worrying over the actual strength of the central government, they are just trying to find anything that they can use to undermine their political opponents.

The only thing that matters in the end is the soul. The loyalty of one person to another. The common bond forged through battle. And the unity of purpose forged through killing one&#039;s mutual enemies.

That is all that matters in the end. Centralized government came from this, it did not come from George Washington substituting the British with the US federal government as it now stands. Assuming he even wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>All articles do not account for the fact that the Sunni tribal ousting of Al Qaeda is no indication that those tribes will help the central government in Iraq.</b></p>
<p>Since when did the detractors of Iraq start supporting centralized government? Do they treat domestic matters in the US with the same bias? No.</p>
<p>This stuff is meaningless given that people aren&#8217;t worrying over the actual strength of the central government, they are just trying to find anything that they can use to undermine their political opponents.</p>
<p>The only thing that matters in the end is the soul. The loyalty of one person to another. The common bond forged through battle. And the unity of purpose forged through killing one&#8217;s mutual enemies.</p>
<p>That is all that matters in the end. Centralized government came from this, it did not come from George Washington substituting the British with the US federal government as it now stands. Assuming he even wanted to.</p>
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		<title>By: Elrond Hubbard</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45845</link>
		<dc:creator>Elrond Hubbard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45845</guid>
		<description>I have read Andrew Bolt&#039;s article, the Natan Sharansky piece, a recent Fred Kagan in the Weekly Standard, and the Times Online&#039;s &quot;Petraeus Curve&quot; article. All articles do not account for the fact that the Sunni tribal ousting of Al Qaeda is no indication that those tribes will help the central government in Iraq. The articles do not acknowledge that the Basra region is nearly completely under the control of Shiite militias that are fighting each other, that are implementing more fundamentalist strictures on, for instance, the role of women in society, and that oil revenue earned in this region will not go to the official Iraqi government, will not be available for reconstruction. In Baghdad, Shiites now control 3/4 of the city and Sunnis live behind concrete barriers and are protected by American forces. Violence in Baghdad is down yes, but because of this separation of these religious groups which used to be intermingled. Andrew Bolt and others cited by Neo recently who do not address these issues are the ones who are not facing reality.

In a recent blog entry of my own, I linked off to the Newscorp-Neocon articles cited by Neo here, and also liked to sources of my information:

http://elrondhubbard.blogspot.com/2007/11/that-good-news-from-iraq-you-keep-not.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read Andrew Bolt&#8217;s article, the Natan Sharansky piece, a recent Fred Kagan in the Weekly Standard, and the Times Online&#8217;s &#8220;Petraeus Curve&#8221; article. All articles do not account for the fact that the Sunni tribal ousting of Al Qaeda is no indication that those tribes will help the central government in Iraq. The articles do not acknowledge that the Basra region is nearly completely under the control of Shiite militias that are fighting each other, that are implementing more fundamentalist strictures on, for instance, the role of women in society, and that oil revenue earned in this region will not go to the official Iraqi government, will not be available for reconstruction. In Baghdad, Shiites now control 3/4 of the city and Sunnis live behind concrete barriers and are protected by American forces. Violence in Baghdad is down yes, but because of this separation of these religious groups which used to be intermingled. Andrew Bolt and others cited by Neo recently who do not address these issues are the ones who are not facing reality.</p>
<p>In a recent blog entry of my own, I linked off to the Newscorp-Neocon articles cited by Neo here, and also liked to sources of my information:</p>
<p><a href="http://elrondhubbard.blogspot.com/2007/11/that-good-news-from-iraq-you-keep-not.html" rel="nofollow">http://elrondhubbard.blogspot.com/2007/11/that-good-news-from-iraq-you-keep-not.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Doom</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45786</link>
		<dc:creator>Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 05:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45786</guid>
		<description>Ymarsakar,

Yes, I see this.  The thugs in the apartment complex to the west of my house, brought in secretly in agreements between Chicago and my town (some legitimate, some not) which has lead to an increased (and yet watered down) police presence.  Oh, do tell.  Oh, and the fact that our state has probably now become compellingly liberal (democratic) by the immigration of Chicago&#039;s public housing problems.  

Do tell, England?  Really.  It&#039;s right here.  Oh, and being punished in engineering courses for not toting the line (or at least being quiet, urhm, which I am not if also I am not really an activist radical if a radical (radical, really and in truth is a free-market, small government, economic fluidity (real), and a believer and God, therefore God given rights).  Do tell, England and police state.  My word, and I declare, and lots of things.  Hmm, I&#039;ll hush and move on.  I&#039;m getting the Vapors anyway.  :p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ymarsakar,</p>
<p>Yes, I see this.  The thugs in the apartment complex to the west of my house, brought in secretly in agreements between Chicago and my town (some legitimate, some not) which has lead to an increased (and yet watered down) police presence.  Oh, do tell.  Oh, and the fact that our state has probably now become compellingly liberal (democratic) by the immigration of Chicago&#8217;s public housing problems.  </p>
<p>Do tell, England?  Really.  It&#8217;s right here.  Oh, and being punished in engineering courses for not toting the line (or at least being quiet, urhm, which I am not if also I am not really an activist radical if a radical (radical, really and in truth is a free-market, small government, economic fluidity (real), and a believer and God, therefore God given rights).  Do tell, England and police state.  My word, and I declare, and lots of things.  Hmm, I&#8217;ll hush and move on.  I&#8217;m getting the Vapors anyway.  :p</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45740</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45740</guid>
		<description>I was wondering what your take on this link about Communism would be, Sergey.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/rejiggering-everythough-you-thought-you-knew-about-communism/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;

The reinvention of history is a topic that is very important to learn, in my view, since the Left uses the same methods with Vietnam that they used with the Soviet Union. Or rather, their dealings with the Soviet Union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering what your take on this link about Communism would be, Sergey.</p>
<p><a href="http://bookwormroom.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/rejiggering-everythough-you-thought-you-knew-about-communism/" rel="nofollow">Link</a></p>
<p>The reinvention of history is a topic that is very important to learn, in my view, since the Left uses the same methods with Vietnam that they used with the Soviet Union. Or rather, their dealings with the Soviet Union.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45725</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45725</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;History isn’t really all that good at evaluating alternatives to what actually happens. Most of the time, it’s difficult enough to understand what did happen, much less to understand the ramifications of what did not. The latter seems to be a matter for the alternative history science fiction writers, not the historians.&lt;/b&gt;

It is funny that you would mention that, Neo, given that I have read many of Eric Flint&#039;s alternative history novels, both science fiction and contemporal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>History isn’t really all that good at evaluating alternatives to what actually happens. Most of the time, it’s difficult enough to understand what did happen, much less to understand the ramifications of what did not. The latter seems to be a matter for the alternative history science fiction writers, not the historians.</b></p>
<p>It is funny that you would mention that, Neo, given that I have read many of Eric Flint&#8217;s alternative history novels, both science fiction and contemporal.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45717</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45717</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;I think the Viet Nam meme survives because of a fundamental, even philosophical, misunderstanding about the nature of war.&lt;/b&gt;

I have to categorically disagree with you about the Left misunderstanding war, Jeff.

The Left understands quite well how surprise and will works in war, because they have implemented many good tactics in their war against human progress in addition to warring against the Republican party. The Soviet Union organized such efforts, since they saw a use in useful idiots.

&lt;b&gt;For all unconventional forces, the support of the people is the center of gravity.&lt;/b&gt;

Obviously the Left understands that quite well, Jeff. It is why they have spent so long reprogramming universities to teach what they allow to be taught. It is why they try so hard to kick ROTC and the military off campuses. It is why they seek to subvert American politicians, policies, and the US Constitution. It is the people that matter, and the Left wishes so much to enslave the people to their will. The blacks were not enough for the Democrat party, in a way.

Their appearance of incompetence and ignorance over how to fight the Islamic Jihad is not so much ignorance as unwillingness. They are unwilling to unleash Leftist tactics upon the Islamic Jihad, much as they were unwilling to unleash Leftist tactics upon Communists and Nazis. That is, until the Nazis betrayed the Communists; the Left never forgave the Nazi jackbooted fascists that.

Still, the Left is not all that competent at conventional warfare or even active measures such as assassination, COIN, insurgency, or anything else concerning active operations for that matter. They may be able to grasp the basic tactics of defeating an enemy psychologically, but they still are not students of history nor of warfare. That is a distinct weakness, as we saw with AQ as the Marines slaughtered their way into Fallujah 2.

&lt;b&gt;The difference is in who best exploits opportunities.&lt;/b&gt;

As a concrete example of what I speak of, consider Valerie Plame. Is that not an opportunity exploited by the Left? How about Sandy Berger? How about Dick Clark when he authorized the clearance for Saudi Arabians to leave America after 9/11, without Presidential authorization? How about the UN and WMDs? Vietnam, even, as an excuse for anti-Americanism and pro-Soviet sentiments?

The Left may have their weaknesses and faults, Jeff, but I have never believed that they were ignorant of warfare tactics in unconventional warfare dealing with the civilian population.

Given a choice between assigning misunderstanding to the Left and active malice, I prefer the latter over the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I think the Viet Nam meme survives because of a fundamental, even philosophical, misunderstanding about the nature of war.</b></p>
<p>I have to categorically disagree with you about the Left misunderstanding war, Jeff.</p>
<p>The Left understands quite well how surprise and will works in war, because they have implemented many good tactics in their war against human progress in addition to warring against the Republican party. The Soviet Union organized such efforts, since they saw a use in useful idiots.</p>
<p><b>For all unconventional forces, the support of the people is the center of gravity.</b></p>
<p>Obviously the Left understands that quite well, Jeff. It is why they have spent so long reprogramming universities to teach what they allow to be taught. It is why they try so hard to kick ROTC and the military off campuses. It is why they seek to subvert American politicians, policies, and the US Constitution. It is the people that matter, and the Left wishes so much to enslave the people to their will. The blacks were not enough for the Democrat party, in a way.</p>
<p>Their appearance of incompetence and ignorance over how to fight the Islamic Jihad is not so much ignorance as unwillingness. They are unwilling to unleash Leftist tactics upon the Islamic Jihad, much as they were unwilling to unleash Leftist tactics upon Communists and Nazis. That is, until the Nazis betrayed the Communists; the Left never forgave the Nazi jackbooted fascists that.</p>
<p>Still, the Left is not all that competent at conventional warfare or even active measures such as assassination, COIN, insurgency, or anything else concerning active operations for that matter. They may be able to grasp the basic tactics of defeating an enemy psychologically, but they still are not students of history nor of warfare. That is a distinct weakness, as we saw with AQ as the Marines slaughtered their way into Fallujah 2.</p>
<p><b>The difference is in who best exploits opportunities.</b></p>
<p>As a concrete example of what I speak of, consider Valerie Plame. Is that not an opportunity exploited by the Left? How about Sandy Berger? How about Dick Clark when he authorized the clearance for Saudi Arabians to leave America after 9/11, without Presidential authorization? How about the UN and WMDs? Vietnam, even, as an excuse for anti-Americanism and pro-Soviet sentiments?</p>
<p>The Left may have their weaknesses and faults, Jeff, but I have never believed that they were ignorant of warfare tactics in unconventional warfare dealing with the civilian population.</p>
<p>Given a choice between assigning misunderstanding to the Left and active malice, I prefer the latter over the former.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45712</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45712</guid>
		<description>Also, Doom, it is not really new to the Left, what you have described. Look at Al Gore in his jet. Do you think that he is somehow solving a problem that he had nothing to do with promoting and creating? These people create problems such as social revolution, and then they come in and promise that they will protect you from the problems that the Left created.

The British disarmed their population and now they are promising protection with 24 hour camera surveillaince and all the apparatus of a police state.

It is the same old protection racket that thugs have engaged in for millenia, Doom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Doom, it is not really new to the Left, what you have described. Look at Al Gore in his jet. Do you think that he is somehow solving a problem that he had nothing to do with promoting and creating? These people create problems such as social revolution, and then they come in and promise that they will protect you from the problems that the Left created.</p>
<p>The British disarmed their population and now they are promising protection with 24 hour camera surveillaince and all the apparatus of a police state.</p>
<p>It is the same old protection racket that thugs have engaged in for millenia, Doom.</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45711</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45711</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Doom Says:
November 6th, 2007 at 9:57 pm

Am I the only one who realizes that the very people who bring up Vietnam as a failure and as an example of why policy should go one way or another are the very people who got us into Vietnam and then arranged it’s loss, while also ensuring our allies in the region also lost and were slaughtered?&lt;/b&gt;

Many of us have spoken about this facet. It is just too depressing and in need of revenge and justice to keep pounding, that is all. We can only speak about Diem&#039;s assassination by pro-Communist and anti-American journalists before we get sick of it.

&lt;b&gt;Chance, uncertainty, and the will of the enemy conspire to make the simplest things almost impossible.&lt;/b&gt;

Becareful Jeff, the more you threaten the Left&#039;s defense against sanity, the more they will be mean to you.

&lt;b&gt;Once many Iraqis got to experience the full blown flavor of extreme Islam, the romance was over.&lt;/b&gt;-logern Says: 

So this was why the Palestinians revolted against Arafat and other Islamic Jihadists and created democracy, right?

Logic just doesn&#039;t parse. Again, the difference is that there is no simply no belief nor faith in the US military to create liberty and freedom. To the Left, the military is a parasite that only gorges on the meat of freedom and civil rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Doom Says:<br />
November 6th, 2007 at 9:57 pm</p>
<p>Am I the only one who realizes that the very people who bring up Vietnam as a failure and as an example of why policy should go one way or another are the very people who got us into Vietnam and then arranged it’s loss, while also ensuring our allies in the region also lost and were slaughtered?</b></p>
<p>Many of us have spoken about this facet. It is just too depressing and in need of revenge and justice to keep pounding, that is all. We can only speak about Diem&#8217;s assassination by pro-Communist and anti-American journalists before we get sick of it.</p>
<p><b>Chance, uncertainty, and the will of the enemy conspire to make the simplest things almost impossible.</b></p>
<p>Becareful Jeff, the more you threaten the Left&#8217;s defense against sanity, the more they will be mean to you.</p>
<p><b>Once many Iraqis got to experience the full blown flavor of extreme Islam, the romance was over.</b>-logern Says: </p>
<p>So this was why the Palestinians revolted against Arafat and other Islamic Jihadists and created democracy, right?</p>
<p>Logic just doesn&#8217;t parse. Again, the difference is that there is no simply no belief nor faith in the US military to create liberty and freedom. To the Left, the military is a parasite that only gorges on the meat of freedom and civil rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45698</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45698</guid>
		<description>Jimmy.

You can be continually disturbed if you wish.  It&#039;s a free country.

But I think most of us would appreciate it if you kept your disturbance to yourself.  Your use of planted axioms and misrepresentations make discussions with you a dreary prospect.

Adios, my friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy.</p>
<p>You can be continually disturbed if you wish.  It&#8217;s a free country.</p>
<p>But I think most of us would appreciate it if you kept your disturbance to yourself.  Your use of planted axioms and misrepresentations make discussions with you a dreary prospect.</p>
<p>Adios, my friend.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmy</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45696</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2007/11/06/just-wondering/#comment-45696</guid>
		<description>I am continually disturbed by your comparisons to Viet Nam, as they seem to make the assumption that our actions there were ultimately justified or ligitmate from the outset.  Or that &quot;we could have won, if only...&quot;  And I have even greater difficulty beginning to believe that things are improving in Iraq upon learning that casulaities were greatest during this past year.  Or is it just &quot;get even&quot; time for those evil Democratic legislatures?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am continually disturbed by your comparisons to Viet Nam, as they seem to make the assumption that our actions there were ultimately justified or ligitmate from the outset.  Or that &#8220;we could have won, if only&#8230;&#8221;  And I have even greater difficulty beginning to believe that things are improving in Iraq upon learning that casulaities were greatest during this past year.  Or is it just &#8220;get even&#8221; time for those evil Democratic legislatures?</p>
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