November 27th, 2007

Sanity Squad interviews Fatima Bhutto

Late last night the Sanity Squad interviewed the articulate and controversial Fatima Bhutto, younthful and US-educated niece (and harsh critic) of Benazir Bhutto and many others on the Pakistani political scene. Tune in and give a listen as Dr. Sanity, Siggy, Shrink, and I take turns questioning Ms. Bhutto, who was speaking from Karachi.

13 Responses to “Sanity Squad interviews Fatima Bhutto”

  1. michael weiss Says:

    a spoiled antiwestern western girl
    also in persia there was a young Intelligencia who wanted to copy the western intelligencia in criticizing the west – they even had the chance to take part in a real antiwestern revolution
    they had a western antiwestern vision: egalitarian, democratic and material security for everybody
    many had to pay for their naiv allying but the most intelligent of this intelligencia could manage to escape to the west – they never took responsibility for their role – and managed to give the blame to the west

  2. Sissy Willis Says:

    Congratulations on a great “get.”

    I’m looking forward to your next interview probing the nature and depth of Ms. Bhutto’s expressed admiration for Chavez and Hezbollah.

    Perhaps The Sanity Squad can help her see the light.

  3. Truth Says:

    Fatima Bhutto, younthful and US-educated

    You can say same about Benazir Bhutto too, or Ahmad Galabi, and others.

    But the disastrous things here these “the articulate and controversial …., younthful and US-educated” folks have a lot of things that make them entrusted and corrupt politician, we didn’t know is it coincident or that how US politics works choosing folks like them?

    Let face it, she have a history of most corrupted PM in Pakistan, even more some Pakistani accusing here Islamic fundamentals had supported and were close to here government when she was in power.
    What here nice talking of course supports her.

    she was exiled from her country for embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars from the government, Pakistani prez Benazir Bhutto didn’t seem that awesome of a leader

  4. Truth Says:

    Has Washington Found its Pakistani Chalabi?

  5. Ymarsakar Says:

    Neo, did you notice how people often talk about how elections are going to be “unfree” when in fact the very movements they create, like the one that brought the Ayatollah to power in Iran, don’t allow ANY elections at all?

  6. Ymarsakar Says:

    People educated here in the US do seem to pick up this socialist idea that “democracy” is the ultimate bread and butter of human progress. They never learn about military operations, the use of violence, and assassination methods. Funny how that works.

  7. Ymarsakar Says:

    What route we take, whether Empire, Spartan, democratic, representative democratic, Roman Republic, or so forth is really based upon whether there actually IS any internal threat going on. If there is such a threat, then martial law can be justified. If there is not, then something else is going on. If the policies of the government itself in Pakistan created this “threat”, then that is simply another layer to the game. Because then you are getting into justified rebellion and such.

    Democratic republics are notoriously weak to defeating actual internal enemies to the people. Even the United States, for all its power and stability, has problems with internal dissent and treason. It just takes more than treason to take down such a powerful republic. No matter how many documents you leak, it won’t defeat the US military. However, if you can actually leak enough stuff in Pakistan, then the Taliban can indeed defeat the Pakistani military, if only simply by evading them.

    Pakistan’s at the point where the Taliban, with their own power base amongst the 150 million Pakistanis, can indeed achieve power. Especially since the Taliban just came from having power and knowing what it takes to rule over a large piece of territory.

    If the Pakistanis want more money, all they have to do is to invite the US Marines and Army across the border. Look what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq in terms of how much money the US has spent. The US ain’t going to spend much money unless they got a reason to. And if Pakistan wants more money, then they had better raise the stakes. They don’t want to raise the stakes, then that’s too bad for them since the terrorists will.

    The gap between the rich and the poor? I just heard her admit that the economy is moving forward so that means we need to mobilize the Revolution to redistribute it. Now that’s a great way to pave the way for a power vacuum. I may not know how well she could redistribute to make the gap smaller, but I do know the Taliban is certainly better at redistribution than any democracy.

    I think she equals civilization and high living standards with democracy. Or rather, one leads to the other. Yet in the United States, what provided prosperity was security, not democracy. Only by securing things through the Civil War, American Revolution, War of 1812, and so forth did the US economy gain the reach and security it needed to expand and invest in schemes.

    Tremendous country of terrorist supporters up in the Afghanistan border. They just can’t be dealt with with democracy. It didn’t work in Iraq and it still has problems in Afghanistan because terrorists keep trying to invade them.

    How the hell do you have the luxury to search for a new candidate when half of your nation’s people are plotting to kill the other half when there is a power vacuum?

    Her idea of social networking is interesting. While a grassroots network based upon bottom up approaches is far better than a top down aristocratic approach, she seems to think that money and funding is the only thing that such networks need. That is just not true. Especially when there are millions of people that have been organized enough so that they could be ordered into the streets to protest the CartoonJihad in Pakistan. There were a shatload of regions in Pakistan’s tribal areas in the North/West in which protests were organized. Organized, and that implies an organization around there capable of pushing out that much street power at a moment’s notice.

    Ya, that “outside pressure” sounds amazingly like Jimmy Carter redux in Iran.

    That luxury of what? The luxury of no lesser evils? That isn’t a luxury in the first place. They don’t have the luxury of even taking the time to DECIDE who is the lesser evil. Not if they create enough sense of weakness and instability and uncertainty in Pakistan. By that time, the decision will already have been made for them.

    The only way to stop state and ethnic violence is to be more violent than them. Will she support the military power and discipline required for such? No. Power comes not come from votes. Power comes from people. Unfortunately people can be swayed by lots of things, including assassination, terrorism, corruption, and intimidation.

    Benazir Bhutto soft on Islamic Jihad is something I can easily believe. Innocent civilians= human shields = fighting terror. Hold on, Neo just said the same thing.

    The verdict is still OUT on Chavez? What the heck… How can any analyzer of social society and government power, such as a person believing they can decide what is best for Pakistan, be “incapable” of analyzing Chavez’s character and policy trends? How is that possible. If you can’t read Chavez and see where he is going to a certain 90%, then how the hezzbollah are you going to tell us things about Musharaff?

    Power comes from the people and being able to predict and know what leaders are, is part of the power of the people. For leaders are people as well.

    These “edumacation” things are simply trappings of civilization. It has nothing to do with security, except Chavez’ security. Again, focusing on these social democracy of higher living standards is a ridiculous philosophical position to take when your goal is ostensibly to create a better life for people. It doesn’t matter what schools Chavez creates, how many families he pays off, or what social networks he creates. Those are only the means to control. They are the fruits of liberty and security, not the cause of it.

    Decentralized state? Revolution? Unless you got a George Washington and an army somewhere we don’t know about, I don’t think Bhutto understands the reality of a “revolution”.

    Anti-corruption policies are important, I agree. Anti-chaos and improved uses of violence against internal and external enemies, those are far more important and critical. It wasn’t as if the American nostalgic life was all that pristine. There was a heck load of corruption in the steel and railroad businesses.

    She’s right, the tribes in the “north’ are really tribal. The cities and urban centers are far less tribal. What that actually means is that she has a huge multi million guerrilla army sitting on her northern border that she hasn’t even planned to deal with. Terrorism won’t stay there once the central rule in the cities break down because of “revolution”. Distributed leaders also mean easier assassination targets and easier ways to create political dissension.

    Did anyone ever wonder why feudalism just simply sucked in compared to Rome’s military model, both Republic and Empire? It is because those feudal aristocrats were not always equal in terms of duty and competence. They would rather fight amongst themselves than protect their people. This is the exact same social dynamic amongst numerous bureacrats and politicians in a place like urban Pakistan.

    Heck, just look at the Democrats here in the mighty and civilized United States. Things don’t get more harmonious the more chaotic and poor the country, like Iraq.

    The language of the West is the language of Thermopylae, Marathon, Belisarius, Sherman, MacArthur, Jackson, Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, etc.

    There is just no way you can “reduce” the Islamics by making every political faction your enemy, including the foreign United States. Even the mighty Untied States recognized this with the Sunnis. You can’t break all of the insurgency, but you can break most of it away from the terrorists, which is just as good.

    Re-energized the Islamic Movement in Pakistan, through Musharaff’s bombing and attacking of them? Not particular powerful? The Taliban influx into the tribal regions of Pakistan increased the organization quite well. Either Musharaff did something or the Taliban would do him in. Which they actually did try via failed assassination attempts.

    She simply does not understand from whence true power comes from. Beng able to manipulate such power, is also beyond her ability and extension.

    Blindly? US intel was very probably telling Musharaff where valid targets were, which being on Pakistan’s side of the border was off limits to the US. What else do people think The One, the only survivor of the SEAL SF team that was going deep recon, was doing?

    Let me tell a piece of reality. While Bhutto, here, may be against killing 16 year olds, I can assure you that terrorists have no compunctions about killing anyone. The verdict about “who is behind that” (bombing assassination) is still out? So, so long as the verdict is still out, it is okay with the public sentiment? Well okay, with enough intimidation I can assure you that any verdict will ALWAYS be “still out”, indefinitely.

    Islamic militancy is solved with dialogue, talking, etc. Violence breeds more violence. Think about the blowback that occurs with killing 16 year olds. What the heck does she know about the source of violence and power?

    I can certainly understand how someone that believes the source of democracy comes from satisfying the living standards of the people at the bottom, would believe that terrorism can be solved by talking with them over how to solve their problems. Certainly that is a humanitarian goal that can be justified.

    However, she confuses the source of democracy from the cause of liberty and security. First you have to get liberty and secure that liberty before you can have the luxury to be rich and prosperous. First you have to kill your enemies before you can secure anything. The world is how it is, I didn’t make it that way but I sure want to be here while terrorists die.

  8. Bill Says:

    Maybe Fatima is finally happy now. The aunt she hated so much is out of her way. Maybe, she thinks she’ll get to be somebody now, which is probably waht drove a jealousy of her aunt in the frist place.

  9. Bill Says:

    Oh, and P.S.

    It seems like every little rich kid like Fatima always thinks they know everything about the world, just because they went to college. “Big deal”, Fatima!

    Lots of people here in the U.S. and abroad are college educated!

    By the looks of you from the most recent photos taken of your immediate family, you look like you have serious attitude problems. Like your whole family is pissed off at the whole world, or about something, but not all that upset.

    You made money off of criticizing your aunt.

    Maybe, she did support the Taliban as you pointed out, but so did the U.S. at the time. What great choices did you have then, either the Taliban, or the Soviets?

    So simple, huh?

    I think Musharrif and your aunt were just trying to figure out how to keep your government stable in light of the developing fanatical Islamist movement.

    Maybe, instead of criticizing the leadership of your country as an unexperienced, spoiled girl like Paris Hilton partying abroad, you ought to begin offering some kind of positive leadership and role model to your people. Maybe, that would help a little more than just going around writing critical, and political BS books just to make a few bucks of off your estranged relationship to your great aunt.

  10. Ymarsakar Says:

    Maybe, she did support the Taliban as you pointed out, but so did the U.S. at the time. What great choices did you have then, either the Taliban, or the Soviets?

    The US supported the Northern Alliance far more than it ever wanted to associate with religious fanatics. Besides, Arab nationalities and Islamic cliques have been used as proxy fighters by the Soviets ever since Israel was formed after WWII.

    Bhutto did not have to extend Taliban control of Afghanistan in order to empower Pakistan, but those were her choices.

    Just as it was the choice of Massoud to recommend that the US do more than just try to kill Osama Bin Laden.

  11. KHWAJA AFTAB ALI, Florida, U.S.A. Says:

    Yes, Fatima is the only hope for Pakistan from Bhutto family- she is the real Bhutto by blood and intellect. I am a regular reader of her articles and it’s hard to believe that she can have this oservation and intellect to write these articles. Her writings are based on very facts and concern of the welfare of masses. But before she walks in to the real field of politics, she has a lot of chalenges to face. Intellectual like Dr. Mubasher Hasan could be a very dependable guide but do not have enogh votes which counts in democracy and the people who have votes are not dependable at all. So please Fatima, take care of yourself first and then politics. We do not want to lose you for nothing. You can lead but lead the nation carefully and wisely. All the best, An unknown founder of PPP and a former PRO, Iranian Embassy, Saudi

  12. Khwaja Aftab Ali, IP Attorney Says:

    We the founder workers of PPP salute to your very right decision that Bhuttos may not need to lead the party but guide the party with their charisma and intellect for the betterment of the masses in Pakistan. They have their own life to enjoy and this is their right any how. In case of Fatima , she might be ready to marry and PPP particularly and Pakistan generally can not afford any other mr. percentage. But Bhuttos will remain a simble of freedom and hope for the poor oppressed people and a light for lower middle class educated youth in Pakistan for years to come. Please, Fatima keep up with your good work and do not forget the poor masses. And when ever you have time, do your best for the masses. All the best for your private life. KHWAJA AFTAB ALI, Florida, U.S.A.

  13. zubair Says:

    keep it up fatima the next generation is with you

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.


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