Comments on: Facts, truth, and changing one’s mind http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/ Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:57:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Terrye http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58264 Terrye Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:27:43 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58264 I think Iraq will have to turn into Switzerland before some of these people will change their minds. I think Iraq will have to turn into Switzerland before some of these people will change their minds.

]]> By: Assistant Village Idiot http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58277 Assistant Village Idiot Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:05:15 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58277 <i>Man of La Mancha</i> does have a certain adolescent appeal not found in <i>Don Quixote</i>. We chose "The Impossible Dream" as our graduation theme song in 8th grade, I recall. There is rather an American cult of Follow Your Dream, as if that in itself were a noble act, regardless of the content of said dream, or the cost to yourself and others of getting there. Not to mention dreams that are never going to be fulfilled, leading to years of misery by those who won't accept that: athletes and entertainers of merely average talent, spouses of sociopaths... Man of La Mancha does have a certain adolescent appeal not found in Don Quixote. We chose “The Impossible Dream” as our graduation theme song in 8th grade, I recall. There is rather an American cult of Follow Your Dream, as if that in itself were a noble act, regardless of the content of said dream, or the cost to yourself and others of getting there. Not to mention dreams that are never going to be fulfilled, leading to years of misery by those who won’t accept that: athletes and entertainers of merely average talent, spouses of sociopaths…

]]> By: gcotharn http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58293 gcotharn Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:44:15 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58293 neo, I wonder if ... the constant necessity of making choices based on imperfect information ... is partly why it is difficult to "change false belief by facts"? Could the someone have an instinctive expectation that more facts exist to back their belief, if only they could get to those facts? Could a politically correct dulling of our logic muscle: of our skill at constantly asking ourselves "true or false?", "right or wrong?", contribute to an over-reliance on our instincts? neo,

I wonder if … the constant necessity of making choices based on imperfect information … is partly why it is difficult to “change false belief by facts”?

Could the someone have an instinctive expectation that more facts exist to back their belief, if only they could get to those facts?

Could a politically correct dulling of our logic muscle: of our skill at constantly asking ourselves “true or false?”, “right or wrong?”, contribute to an over-reliance on our instincts?

]]> By: Bugs http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58305 Bugs Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:37:42 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58305 <i>I think Iraq will have to turn into Switzerland before some of these people will change their minds.</i> You mean we have to teach them to yodel? I think Iraq will have to turn into Switzerland before some of these people will change their minds.

You mean we have to teach them to yodel?

]]> By: njcommuter http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58312 njcommuter Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:48:37 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58312 The problem is that too many people think that picketing the local USMC recruiting office is "marching into hell." If they only knew what the Marines know, and what each new generation of Marines learns, they would change their minds. Yes, there are a few veterans of Korea, Vietnam, and even WWII among the moonbats, but somehow they forget that the price must be paid again and again. The problem is that too many people think that picketing the local USMC recruiting office is “marching into hell.” If they only knew what the Marines know, and what each new generation of Marines learns, they would change their minds. Yes, there are a few veterans of Korea, Vietnam, and even WWII among the moonbats, but somehow they forget that the price must be paid again and again.

]]> By: Terrye http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58375 Terrye Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:01:37 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58375 Bug: Oh yes, and they will have to wear those funny little pants too. Bug:

Oh yes, and they will have to wear those funny little pants too.

]]> By: Beaman http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58378 Beaman Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:12:08 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58378 Many people place themselves into a political category which they cannot deviate from even if they know the reasoning behind a certain policy is wrong. How can a liberal, for example, suddenly praise American policy in front of his peers? Impossible for many. Unfortunately it usually leads to complete hypocritical behaviour and reasoning. Many people place themselves into a political category which they cannot deviate from even if they know the reasoning behind a certain policy is wrong. How can a liberal, for example, suddenly praise American policy in front of his peers? Impossible for many. Unfortunately it usually leads to complete hypocritical behaviour and reasoning.

]]> By: Good Ole Charlie http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58379 Good Ole Charlie Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:58:55 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58379 Egad... "Follow your dream"?!?? "Who knows what visions appear during the sleep of Reason?" Egad…

“Follow your dream”?!??

“Who knows what visions appear during the sleep of Reason?”

]]> By: Zhombre http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58386 Zhombre Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:58:02 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58386 "Facts are the enemy of truth." This was the motto of Dan Rather and CBS News when they tried to foist the alleged Texas Air Natl Guard memos on the public, no, when they attempted to elide over the inconvenient fact of forged memos in order to damage GWB. And the quote Charlie above refers to I think is this: http://www.artchive.com/artchive/G/goya/goya_sleep_of_reason.jpg.html “Facts are the enemy of truth.” This was the motto of Dan Rather and CBS News when they tried to foist the alleged Texas Air Natl Guard memos on the public, no, when they attempted to elide over the inconvenient fact of forged memos in order to damage GWB.

And the quote Charlie above refers to I think is this:

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/G/goya/goya_sleep_of_reason.jpg.html

]]> By: Good Ole Charlie http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58408 Good Ole Charlie Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:04:49 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58408 Zhombre: You are correct...I looked it up in Bartlett's. Us old folks still use Bartlett rather than Google and its ilk. Time Marches On, though Zhombre:

You are correct…I looked it up in Bartlett’s.

Us old folks still use Bartlett rather than Google and its ilk.

Time Marches On, though

]]> By: Thomas http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58413 Thomas Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:54:36 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58413 Assistant Village Idiot Says: February 19th, 2008 at 6:05 pm "Not to mention dreams that are never going to be fulfilled, leading to years of misery by those who won’t accept that" Now that people are living longer (70-80 easy) I'm guessing they'll blow their 20s doing that kind of stuff and grow up by 30.... Assistant Village Idiot Says:

February 19th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

“Not to mention dreams that are never going to be fulfilled, leading to years of misery by those who won’t accept that”

Now that people are living longer (70-80 easy) I’m guessing they’ll blow their 20s doing that kind of stuff and grow up by 30….

]]> By: Bugs http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58428 Bugs Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:35:54 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58428 From a poster at <a href="http://www.despair.com" rel="nofollow">Despair, Inc.</a>: <i>Get back to work. You aren't being paid to believe in the power of your dreams.</i> From a poster at Despair, Inc.:

Get back to work. You aren’t being paid to believe in the power of your dreams.

]]> By: Valjean http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58429 Valjean Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:36:05 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58429 Neo, <i>Man of La Mancha</i> was a horrendous -- though, alas, hardly unique -- bastardization of a great work. If all anyone remembers from Cervantes' classic is a deluded dreamer "tilting at windmills" they're sadly missing a brilliant, complex, and unbelievably rich story -- of which "impossible dreams" play a minor and largely metaphorical role. As for some implication that the book itself might give succor to jihadists, consider the following self-referencial quote: "If there is any objection to be made about the truthfulness of the history, it can only be that its author was an Arab, and it's a well-known feature of Arabs that they're all liars; but since they're such enemies of ours, it's to be supposed that he fell short of the truth rather than exaggerating it." 'Don Quixote', Part 1, Chapter 9 (... and check out those semicolons -- not to mention those uses of "its" and "it's"!) Neo,

Man of La Mancha was a horrendous — though, alas, hardly unique — bastardization of a great work. If all anyone remembers from Cervantes’ classic is a deluded dreamer “tilting at windmills” they’re sadly missing a brilliant, complex, and unbelievably rich story — of which “impossible dreams” play a minor and largely metaphorical role.

As for some implication that the book itself might give succor to jihadists, consider the following self-referencial quote:

“If there is any objection to be made about the truthfulness of the history, it can only be that its author was an Arab, and it’s a well-known feature of Arabs that they’re all liars; but since they’re such enemies of ours, it’s to be supposed that he fell short of the truth rather than exaggerating it.”

‘Don Quixote’, Part 1, Chapter 9

(… and check out those semicolons — not to mention those uses of “its” and “it’s”!)

]]> By: Zhombre http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58443 Zhombre Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:51:14 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58443 Charlie, I'm one of the old folks too and have a copy of Bartlett's on my shelf. But I've adapted to Google. And one thing about Cervantes I like to point out to the folks who are gaga over alternative energy sources like windmills, is that Don Quixote didn't tilt at internal combustion engines, which is to say wind power was a great technical innovation during the Middle Ages and some current alleged progressive thinking about energy is really quite reactionary. Charlie, I’m one of the old folks too and have a copy of Bartlett’s on my shelf. But I’ve adapted to Google. And one thing about Cervantes I like to point out to the folks who are gaga over alternative energy sources like windmills, is that Don Quixote didn’t tilt at internal combustion engines, which is to say wind power was a great technical innovation during the Middle Ages and some current alleged progressive thinking about energy is really quite reactionary.

]]> By: Bugs http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58549 Bugs Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:06:29 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58549 Been a while since I read the novel, but I definitely remember it as a satire. Seems like the doddering old DQ got filtered through the Romantic age and emerged as an individualistic hero. Been a while since I read the novel, but I definitely remember it as a satire. Seems like the doddering old DQ got filtered through the Romantic age and emerged as an individualistic hero.

]]> By: cas http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58588 cas Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:27:46 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2008/02/19/facts-truth-and-changing-ones-mind/#comment-58588 How about <i><b>this</b></i> cliche? "My mind is already made up, don't bother me with the facts" How about this cliche?
“My mind is already made up, don’t bother me with the facts”

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