For instance, I get to hear my wife tell me how the police followed her home from the grocery store, or they stopped her for driving while black just a bit too close to the Stanford Law School.

When we’re out together, some very odd things happen — things that no white couple or black couple will ever experience.

There’s much we don’t agree on. Affirmative action is a good example.

And there’s much we do agree on. Barack Obama’s speech this morning is a fine example.

Before that speech, I thought the Jeremiah Wright controversy meant the end to Obama’s prospects. Now I feel as if Clinton’s prospects are over. My wife agrees.

Also, you suggest that he should have gone to a different church. This whole speech is about taking ownership of ourselves, both the good and the bad, so to switch to a politically less controversial place of worship would be a classic example of old-politics that he’s trying to separate from.

That church has helped make him who he is, if he believes in who he is than he should be able to take responsibility for that church, for better or worse, and he just has.

Also - nyomythus - you comment had neither substance or tact.

Obama has been around Wright for TWENTY years and not once, not one single time did he ask himself if such abrasive, racist rhetoric might not be compatible with his own beliefs?

Obama says he profoundly disagrees with Wright yet also gave the man an advisory role in his campaign, releasing him only after the press started raising uncomfortable questions.

Obama is turning out to be a classic race-pimp, sidestepping the racial rhetoric only when necessary. Need proof? Notice the tone of his language on this speech; clipped and well enunciated. Now compare that to when Obama is addressing a majority black audience and the ethnic ’street patois’ appears.

Yet Wright was released from the Obama campaign. Why would Obama do that if in truth Wright is only partially controversial? Presumably the man would have at least one small bit of good advice to offer.

Or maybe you just weren’t a good American….

I wish Obama and his followers would defend the US for a change rather than defending themselves.

Sorry. But not good enough. It answers nothing.

He raised his children under this spiritual mentor and then plays the role of a healer? I don’t buy it for a second.

I heard a lot of “let me tell you whats wrong with America” rather than urging me to build upon all the good.

Of course Obama is our new fixer; all he sees around him are problems.

Are you saying you don’t belong to a church for a lot of different reasons–reasons like the congregation, the service, and all the other people who make it up?

Rev. Wright’s comments have been blown out of proportion. A few comments over the years out of hours of sermonizing. Obama addressed them–forcefully. Those of you still looking to nitpick would be looking to nitpick if he had left the church months or even years ago.

The real message of his speech: move on. America needs us to.

I am so quoting this in my LiveJournal - comedy gold FTW!

A 40 MINUTE DEMAGOGIC rant about race from this lightweight Chicago Democratic Party Machine politician?

Who the hell could be swayed by this?

However, as to the middle, my gut instinct right this moment is that Obama managed to repair the issue with his speech. Which is a shame, because I find his association with Wright extremely problematic for all the reasons others have pointed out, and pretty words don’t change that. There’s something rather weird with both Obamas–neoneo, your profile of Michelle Obama was very well-done and right on, I thought, and I’ve seen another good profile of Barack somewhere else which unfortunately I can’t remember where that is at the moment, doggone it. (Possibly at the Jawa Report.) But what it comes down to, I think, is that a lot of people *want* to believe Obama, or perhaps believe *in* Obama (the Obamessiah), so they will. As long as he makes the slightest gesture in their direction, they’ll meet him more than halfway just to allow themselves to keep believing. Of course, I could be wrong, but that’s my gut instinct right now. *Sigh.*

How?? Please elaborate.

If my minister said such things in ANY context I would question his sanity, hell if anyone I knew said such things it would scare me.

Listen the the speeches, the crowd is doing quite a bit of cheering, if Obama picked this church for its members than he must have realized he was surrounded by nutcases…or he agreed with them.

Sorry. Can’t do it. What I heard was not a call for America to become great; what I heard was a call for America to become good enough according to black people and other minorities.

Obama’s basic tenet - which differs only in its expression, not in its essence - is that America is a bad place and American’s are bad people and only by enacting liberal Democrat policies can they be redeemed.

This makes me want to become a better American by voting for John McCain.

Since I am not a Democrat (an affiliation I ended six years ago) I will not be voting for him. I have no personal animus towards the man - after all, I do not know him. He’s a Leftist lawyer, which is precisely the wrong person to have as POTUS in these dangerous times. As a Christian who supports Israel’s right to defend itself, I note the prevalence of anti-Jewish people on his policy advisory staff. He has chosen to associate himself with men who have ties to Islamic terror groups. This is not a good thing. As a citizen who has taken it upon himself to read the Qur’an and some English translations of some of the more authoritative ahadith, I can say with utter certainty that I know this enemy more profoundly than Obama and his advisers do. I am also more well-read in the intellectuals who buttress the Left’s architecture than Obama is. I trust my own counsel more than I trust his.

I’m way beyond the race card. It was never a factor in my life, since my school days, my time in the Army, my time as a Jesuit seminarian who actually, when attached to Loyola of Chicago, did volunteer work in South Chicago, and my time in undergraduate and graduate studies. And I have been, a few times, treated unfairly because I am white, but it never embittered me against black Americans. They are just “Americans” to me and I take individuals, one at at time. So, there is no “healing” that I need from a snake oil salesman.

I judge Sen. Obama on the issues, his voting record, and what little of his policy prescriptions he has allowed us to be privy to. I have to be faithful to my principles, therefore there is no one in the Democratic Party I can vote for at this time, unless it was Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut (if the party now owned by Dean, Soros, and the Netroots would allow him to remain).

Right on neo, this is not a comparable justification for Wrights comments, also this is a coldblooded political exploitation. Sorry grams … but sonny boy has an appointment with destiny, didn’t mean to kick you in the eye, you understand.

What is Obama’s moral character? ASK HIS PREACHER.

Which is funny since it’s folks like him who keep badgering the rest of us about it.

Would I be presuming too much to say you are a Russian expat? And that would mean you know Russia a lot better than I do. Therefore, I have a question for you: Why is Russia now such an ally of Iran? I mean, what can Tehran promise to Putin about Chechnya? Is Iran THAT influential? Why doesn’t Moscow see that Iranian nukes are just as threatening as the rest of the world does? And finally, why is Russia actually helping Iran get nuclear weapons’ capability?

This is a guy who has absolutely nothing in common with blacks living there except his skin color. His accent and education would pretty much guarantee he would not be passed by a cab in the rain. But he becomes a machine politician in Chicago and goes to a huge black nationalist church in the hood. What gives? Either he has some real issues with his upbringing or he figures to use the crookedest political machine in the US as a springboard.

We have absolutely no clue as to who the real Obama is. Maybe he doesn’t either.

How?? Please elaborate.[/i]

As I said previously, I *suspect* that there are a lot of people in the middle who want to believe Obama, or maybe believe *in* Obama, and if they perceive him as giving them the slightest little bit of a reason, they’ll meet him more than halfway. They’ll hear what they want to hear out of his speech–whatever it takes for them to allow them to believe him.

I can’t really put it any better than that–it’s just a gut feeling and could be wrong. Personally I hope my feeling *is* wrong. As I said, I think that it doesn’t matter what pretty words he puts on his association with Wright, the fact that he specifically chose this guy–a guy who, fer cryin’ out loud, repeats to his congregation the conspiracy story that the US fabricated the AIDS virus specifically to kill black people???–is inexcusable. (And ditto what others have said about choosing to expose his *daughters* to such hatemongering.) We’ll see. I think there’s a saying somewhere that first impressions are almost always wrong….

The odds say that vitually every person of every race would pet a stray Golden Retriever before we would pet a stray Pit Bulldog.

Why is that? Its about playing odds based on experience to stay safe in this life. Its there no matter what race or color you happen to be.

How dare people like Rev Wright have the audacity to snarl his teeth at me and then Barak points out the racist in me for being repulsed by it.

That dog wont hunt.

Why? He’s still using a family member’s putative private (or else why “whispered”?) thoughts in service of his political career. And as has been said before, the thoughts are not equivalent: Wright’s diatribes are based on past wrongs, BO’s grammy’s are on present experience. I thought the pit bull/golden retriever analogy of SteveH was particularly apt.

This was simply a “You still owe me, Whitey” speech cloaked in flowery prose. If the garbage in your neighborhood isn’t picked up, what’s to prevent you and your neighbors—who are presumably as disturbed about it as you are—from cleaning it up yourselves? No jobs in the ‘hood? Maybe if you stopped painting graffiti on businesses and breaking their windows, you’d have a few more employers deciding to locate there. Trouble with “inferior” schools? Try growing up in a town of 7,000 in New Mexico with an education budget of about 1/100 of that of Chicago’s worst district.

Stop being a victim and suck it up.

If I were Barack, I would have operatives frenetically scanning blogs this morning, and leaving positive, feel-good blog comments about my speech. My operatives might have names like “Mr. Thorne” and “Kelly Pierce”. It would be important for my operative’s to be fast, and to get their comments in earlier than other commenters, so as to have maximum impact. My operatives would list some concrete reasons Barack’s speech was wonderful, even if Mr. Thorne and Kelly Pierce did not.

I clearly have no idea if Mr. Thorne and Kelly Pierce and friends are real or not. Just sayin … my horse manure antennae are activated.

That is the purpose and motivation for the speech. He’s saying what he has to say because he’s forced to say it to save himself. So it’s all highly suspect to me.

That Obama brought his kids to Rev Wright’s Church tells me much, much more — without the doubt cast by ulterior political motives.

Neo, I thought this blogpost was outstanding. I do not think Sen. Obama transcends race. I think his subtle yet pervasive message is: vote for me or you are racist. Today was more of the same. What is the following, if not an assertation of “vote for me or you are racist”:

the legacy of discrimination—and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past—are real and must be addressed. […] It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

I already know my dreams don’t have to come at the expense of someone else’s dreams, thank you very much. Barack’s standard stump speech message is “Americans don’t realize the ‘other’ is just as human as we are.” His standard stump speech, reduced to it’s essence: You are all racists. Vote for me and be saved. I will heal America. Of course, he says it so beautifully, so charismatically, so soothingly: you are all racists, look into the spinning watch… or whatever it is hypnotists use.

Ugh. I’m too disgusted. Need less politics; more children and dogs and flowers and beauty.

I grew up in the 50’s and 60’s, I remember the Civil Rights marches. I remember Martin Luther King. This man is not King. In fact his mentor makes a point in judging people by the color of their skin and not the content of their character.

I went through the hippy phaze when I was in school and I can remember rent a cops following me through stores, and I am white. Well sort of. I look white, let’s put it that way.

Obama is not making some great race speech, where white people get to admit once again that they suck, Obama is trying to win the White House. That is all. He would not be having this little chat with us if he could have avoided.

Now I know that his fan club will drool and swoon, but I am not sure that it would work for most people. After all most of those Independents were at work, did not hear the speech, will only hear snippets…but they will remember Wright’s God DAMN America!!! That is hard to forget.

Btw, that church had a door, Obama should have walked out of it.

Obama: “America is damned, but vote for me and together we can fix it!”

God damn both of them.

As a commenter said, over at Sister Toldjah: “I love Shakespeare at times like this….

‘…it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.’”

No matter how many words are thrown at the TV cameras the bottom line is BEHAVIOR. Obama didn’t disassociate himself from Wright. Instead he re-embraced Wright and became an apologist for Wright. You’re either on the bus or you’re off the bus – and Obama is definitely still on the Wright bus.

For example, SKIN COLOR is due to the bodies response to the sun. Human who were exposed more to sun have darker skin over time to protect their skin, while those who were less exposed (or lived in colder climates) had lighter skin so they could absorb UV light easier to produce Vit-D. This is EVOLUTION and has nothing to do with race. You have more DNA in your genes that deal with HEIGHT than with skin color!

Also for those say “white america” will always keep “our group” down, history shows America is one of the most forgiving and accepting countries on EARTH. We have leaders of every race, creed, and national origin!

In 1941 Japan attacked America, we locked some up in camps, and fought a WAR against them that killed over 1 million Americans. Yet within 10-20 years after the WAR they were seen not only as our friends, but Allies! Also, we dropped two Atomic Bombs on their country and they forgave us and needed some help to rebuild their country, but they are not blaming us 50 years later for their problems like Obama’s pastor is!

Those in groups (white, black, brown, etc…) who blame another group (white, black, brown, etc…) should look in the mirror and see their OWN actions (or lack of action) are holding themselves back more than anything else!

I may vote for Obama, but not if he plays the “Victim” Card, which his own life has proved is not valid. If you work hard, stop blaming other, and realize skin color is (and should be!) meaniless, you will succeed in LIFE.

Case Closed!

Presidential???? This speech was presidential? Presidential my ass.

On the contrary, Obama’s speech was very reminiscent of certain former Presidents. Specifically, Clinton and Carter.

Yes, and guess what? Both Carter and Clinton were both Presidents! Imagine that? So what is your point? That they weren’t?

Obviously a foreigner, making reference to “your country.” I haven’t read anything worthy of disgust here. Nor do we exhibit ignorance.

“Bacal” please let us know when you are ready to show us the more erudite and thoughtful side of yourself.

I believe I misunderstood your post. You were critizing someone who said the speech was not Presidential by comparing it to Carter and Clinton. Sorry. If so I actually find the speech better than Carter or Clinton.

And to many here who call Obama an empty suit I am sure you still will even if he becomes President and serves 8 years.

I know I still think Bush is an empty suit.

Just incredible.

I knew about Barack Obama’s pastor months ago and researched other influences in his life. These people matter because all of them have played a role in the formation of his mind. From his Marxist mother, to his mentor in his teenage years, a member of the Communist Party USA, Frank Davis, to his Columbia University professor mentor, who was a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization, to Mr. Rezko, who himself has connections with Islamic terror groups. There are the policy advisers lined up for him by George Soros.

You ask why this should matter? And you suggest that a double standard that is perhaps racist is being applied here?

All of this matters because his campaign and his speeches have been devoid of substance. So, the responsible voter goes in search of who this man is and what he stands for. There is no malice in doing this. Some of us have, after all, graduated from college long before the regime of political correctness.

Oh come on. His Marxist mother! Love that. Does that mean he will rule like a communist leader? Didn’t Arnold Schwarzenegger have a Nazi father and a good friendship with Kurt Waldheim? Yet Arnold is no closer to being a Nazi than you are.
Arnold too was an empty suit. And guess what? Despite a few policies I disagree with he is doing alright.
My college education taught me the simple fact that one cannot and should not be accused of guilt by association [or family, no less]. I don’t think Obama will become some kind of anti-semitic communist monster, which I assume in the extreme you are proposing here.
But sure, his life is fair game. What politician’s life isn’t?

I do think that Obama has a unique perspective being both white and black. He can’t alienate one part or the other (hence the grandma story). So he has the credibility to address BOTH sides.

I did like that he addressed that white people have anger and issues as well, and that these are real issues. Too many black politicians and leaders play into the ‘white people have it made’ mantra that makes me ill.

Did he make this speech to save his political ass, yes. Did he throw his minister under the bus, yes. Is he a typical hypocritical politician, yes. But at least he showed that he can be the president of American, not black America. He’s a candidate, not a black candidate. He’ll address issues, not black issues.

At least if he wins, we’ll have that.

I saw a great summary of His speech over at another blog, Ace of Spades HQ
http://minx.cc/?post=258029

“SteveL:

Ok, let me see if I understood this speech correctly:

1. I was in church when Wright said some bad things.

2. I didn’t like the bad things he said.

3. I never, ever spoke up about how I felt about the bad things.

4. I continued to go to the church even after he said the bad things.

5. All of which is irrelevant because my grandmother used some racial epithets.

Did I get it right?”

This may be a useful to point out that virtually all American blacks are both white and black. I’ve had grad students from Africa, and believe me, they look nothing like Obama or (especially) Wright.

Another useful point, greater dissemination of which would materially ameliorate race relations in this country: American blacks were sold into slavery by their brethren in Africa, not captured by white men. American slavery was a white and black crime against other blacks.

And a third one. America was born with slavery in place, and thus is in exactly the same position as a child born with a veneral disease. Blame the European imperial powers that started the practice, not the country that fought a bitter civil war to end it.

For the record, hope feels a lot better.

I’m not practicing “guilt by association.” In his own book and in his own statements he credits his mother with developing his mind AND HIS WORLDVIEW.

Having been a student of the history of ideas, and also having studied HOW it is that people often (not always) arrive at the ideas they hold, you cannot minimize the role that influential adults have in the framework for how you think about the world.

Do some introspection about YOUR life and how you came to see the world the way you do. I guarantee you that you will find that a parent, or a teacher, or a mentor, or a professor, or any combination of these, as well as your own explorations, played a large role in your ideological template. If you think that you or anybody else are immune to these influences, then I think you need to go back to the beginning and re-examine the process by which you arrive at that conclusion.

As a former Leftist, I’ve deconstructed pretty much the entire process by which I arrived at my affinity for Marxism. I’ve looked at it all within myself and I can indeed point to every person, book, personal experience, and class that enticed me down the path I took.

Don’t lecture me about applying critical inquiry to political candidates. And your vituperative response is very revealing about your character and mind.

What a brilliant insight. Tell that to your especially dark skinned grad students from Africa. It may materially ameliorate them.

Uh huh.. I bet those gals like Medea Benjamin really know how to debase themselves the way you like it. And no anger there.. right?

My grandfather and grandmother were communist supporters at one time in the 1930’s. They had lived through the Depression. My grandfather was a strong believer in equality for men, women and minorities and he hated the wars of the 20th century. He didn’t like the contradictions of capitalism and thought the government could do better for the people. [FDR’s programs helped him get back on his feet]. He was a great man who, yes, influenced me. My grandmother became a devout Methodist who - God bless her - also had a strong belief in equality, caring for the poor and hoped one day for universal health care. She, yes, influenced me.
While I see communism as a great failure that killed millions I cannot deny that some people during the Depression looking for other governmental solutions looked toward communism. It was the wrong solution to be sure.
However, my grandparents were not Stalinists - which I am certain someone would call them if they didn’t know them and wanted to throw slurs my way.
That is partly my point.

Don’t worry about it. He wasn’t talking about you, specifically.

I believe I misunderstood your post. You were critizing someone who said the speech was not Presidential by comparing it to Carter and Clinton.

Not quite. I was, indeed, responding to someone who said the speech was not presidential. However, my point was that being presidential is not necessarily a good thing; it depends on which President you are being likened to. If Obama’s speech is reminiscent of the dishonest sophistry of Clinton or the mealymouthed platitudes of Carter, then Obama is not exactly covering himself with glory.

If so I actually find the speech better than Carter or Clinton.

I wish I could say the same.

Yes, it might “feel a lot better” to avoid the hard work of critical thinking, and just let oneself get caught up in an emotional wave of hero worship when a charismatic candidate like Obama comes along. It also feels better to eat ice cream and chocolate and french fries than it does to do the hard work of making sensible, healthy food choices. That doesn’t make healthy eaters cynics. It just makes them people who realize that indulging their feelings isn’t the best way to get optimal results.

Barack Obama pimped out his grandmother to save his own political career.

Nixon pimped his dog, Checkers.

Obama went way lower than that.

He makes me sick. His supporters drink waaaay too much KoolAid.

At this point I think a simple intelligence test could consist of just one question, “Are you an Obama supporter?”

if the person answers “yes,” they should not be allowed to operate heavy machinery.

Go Obama!

Let me translate what Mrs Whatsit just wrote:

“I’m smarter than you.”

Now we just need to know if Mrs Whatsit thinks Bush and Cheney and Rove are eligible for the same ‘critical thinking’ she speaks of.

What a brilliant insight. Tell that to your especially dark skinned grad students from Africa. It may materially ameliorate them.

Thank you for underscoring the point that reading comprehension is not within the grasp of all.

My metaphor clearly likened slavery to a venereal disease, not the blacks. In fact, I’d often made that comment to them. Fortunately, they were a good deal brighter than some, and took the point.

“Ameliorate?” Big words are tough, but I believe you were going for “placate.”

In any case, at least in my experience, Africans don’t have the same chip on their shoulders about slavery, as is only right: they were involved in it up to their eyeballs, and can hardly point the finger at anyone else.

As Hugh Thomas points out in The Slave Trade, the biggest single obstacle Britain faced in trying to abolish the slave trade was …African chieftains, who made a fortune from it.

“We all have our perspectives. Mine is influenced by more than 20 years as one half of an interracial couple. I’m Anglo, and my wife is Afro, which means I have experiences most Anglos don’t.”

Mister Thorne, you assume a superior attitude. Because you know what other “Anglos” — a racist, obfuscating, and hostile term — do not know, you are in a position to preach.

Your post shows zero awareness of the many worlds you refuse to acknowledge. You don’t need to teach. You need to learn.

Expand your vision, Mister Thorne. Talk to me about Korean immigrants, with a history of their own oppression, including mass rape under the Japanese, coming to this country, working like dogs to set up businesses, and being disrespected, insulted, beaten, robbed, and having their stores burned down by African Americans — people they never enslaved, never harmed, never even met before they arrived on theses shores.

Talk to me, Mister Thorne, about Jews, Italians, and Portugese who saw a city they built, Newark, NJ, go up in flames because African Americans were angry at white supremacy, a legacy that oppressed these Jews and other immigrants as well.

Talk to me, Mister Thorne, about how white police officers, or even black police officers, feel when they listen to the lyrics of African American hit songs that call police officers “pigs” and recommend their *murder.*

Talk to me, Mister Throne, about New York City cab drivers who aren’t racist, who didn’t even arrive in this country until a few years ago, but who have been stiffed for rides by African American male customers.

Talk to me about innocent people mugged, raped, murdered, in African American crime.

Talk about Jews who have faced disrimination, about Jews who have faced even a pogrom in this country — Crown Heights — and yet still manage to love America.

Learn about the Irish, who were as dogs when they first escaped the potato famine, and yet still learned to love America.

Talk about Joe Dimaggio, who was denounced as a “Wop” and a “greaser” and a “Dago” when he played ball for the Yankees — and Italians still learned to love America.

The problem is not that non-black Americans — forget your hostile, racist word “Anglo” — don’t know about black suffering. We are force fed a constant diet of how much blacks have suffered.

The problem is that people like you, like Jeremiah Wright, insist that black people *own* suffering, and that black people can never transcend suffering, and can never love America.

Black people don’t own suffering. Plenty of non-black people have suffered as well.

Black people *can* transcend suffering. Frederick Douglass was a very great man. Martin Luther King was a very great man. Harriet Tubman was a very great woman. Suffering did not hold them back; suffering did not force them to take crack and go on welfare.

Black people *can* love America.

Jeremiah Wright says “God **** America.”

Marion Anderson, a black woman, sang “God bless America.”

If you’re asking whether I think critical thinking ought to be applied to a Republican candidate, or if, instead, I think that rationality ought to be reserved for Democratic candidates, while Republicans should be chosen based on feelings — well, actually, I think that’s a pretty silly question. Tell me what you found in my previous post that sounded partisan to you, other than my unwillingness to follow Obama blindly based on what feels good. Republican candidates can be charismatic too — think Reagan, for instance. Would you argue that voting for Reagan was a fine thing to do, as long as it “felt better” than “cynicism”?

As for being smarter than Chartreuse, haven’t met her, don’t know, expressed no opinion on the subject. I just disagreed with her point of view and said so. If you think that amounts to declaring that I’m smarter than she is, then I guess your post disagreeing with mine should be translated in exactly the same way.

I believe it’s called “realism.” I don’t see much cynicism on this board. Arguably the most cynical person involved is Obama himself, who apparently calculated (correctly, it seems) that his supporters could be kept onside no matter what he’d done.

For the record, hope feels a lot better.

And feelings are paramount, right?

“This was one of the most “presidential” speeches I have ever heard a candidate give in my life, if not THE most. It challenges every American to be better”

What a load of bs…

I hang out with racists and black nationalists… but their anger is real and ergo you need to understand its roots… and elect me and give me all my progressive spending programs… to make it go away…

Anyway, I know the anger is real… you can hear it in their hate speech. I also know the roots. I just don’t think it justifies either.

It’s just so typical… liberal fascism…

Talk to me about Obama who is trying to transcend all of this.
Yes, Black people *can* love America.
Black people *can* transcend suffering.

I see Obama’s life as an example of that.

So what is your point?

Black people can wear flag lapel pins and recite the Pledge of Allegiance - but Obama doesn’t, and won’t.

Does that help?

If I were Obama I might be a bit worried right about now, this thing isn’t going away anytime soon and the RNC commercial production crew is waiting in the wings.