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	<title>Comments on: Giving McCain a Vietnam history lesson</title>
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	<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/</link>
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		<title>By: gerbil</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-96935</link>
		<dc:creator>gerbil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 21:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-96935</guid>
		<description>Sorry to point this out &lt;a href=&quot;www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/96winter/record.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; but the U.S. Army WAR COLLEGE&lt;/a&gt; agrees with Conason.
By 1967, American planning was reduced to minimizing the humiliation a defeat would cause, and lying to the American public about how utterly the polcies of the Pentagon war planners were failing.
So, along came Tet, a tactical failure that was a strategic success, that proved to America that the Vietnamese would NOT surrender to American bombing, poisons, or superior firepower.
From there on, it was just desperation that caused Nixon to claim to have &#039;won&#039; Vietnam having just signed an agreement leaving the Vietnamese Army (north) in place while Americans ran away.
That&#039;s called &quot;losing&quot;, and the Conason is quite correct in his statement.
Maybe because he read what the War College had to say?
Most likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to point this out <a href="www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/96winter/record.htm" rel="nofollow"> but the U.S. Army WAR COLLEGE</a> agrees with Conason.<br />
By 1967, American planning was reduced to minimizing the humiliation a defeat would cause, and lying to the American public about how utterly the polcies of the Pentagon war planners were failing.<br />
So, along came Tet, a tactical failure that was a strategic success, that proved to America that the Vietnamese would NOT surrender to American bombing, poisons, or superior firepower.<br />
From there on, it was just desperation that caused Nixon to claim to have &#8216;won&#8217; Vietnam having just signed an agreement leaving the Vietnamese Army (north) in place while Americans ran away.<br />
That&#8217;s called &#8220;losing&#8221;, and the Conason is quite correct in his statement.<br />
Maybe because he read what the War College had to say?<br />
Most likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Trochilus</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76506</link>
		<dc:creator>Trochilus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76506</guid>
		<description>Victory . . . military victory . . . is never much more than a means to an uncertain end.  

It is true that many, including myself, have fervently wished for an unmistakable victory in Iraq, but hopefully not just for the sake of victory.  Nor do I want to see a real victory just because I want to be able to say, &quot;I told you so,&quot; to my liberal and other left-leaning friends and acquaintances . . . and even a few some paleo-leaning acquaintances.  

I wish it so because there will be a future for both the Iraqi people and for the American people, and for the freedom that we hold so dear.  I believe that future for the Iraqi people and for the American people, and for freedom, will be significantly improved if we are the clear victors.

In that regard, whether or not anyone supported the incursion when it happened in the spring of 2003, is now largely beside the point.  And I personally believe that was also true back in 2006 as well.

I did support the original incursion, but many did not on at least arguable grounds.   Some vehemently opposed the surge, even as late as late 2007, because they did not think it could possibly succeed.  They were obviously wrong.  Still others have been in denial about the success of the surge well into this year.  They were not only wrong back then; they are now stupid. 

Sadly, there were others among us opposed the surge because they quite plainly want our nation to be defeated and humiliated -- many of them on partisan grounds -- Bush hatred.  

Call me cynical, but I am not still not entirely certain where Barack Obama falls  on that scale.  He is either a lefty ideologue, or a lefty ideologue who is now in denial.  Either way, he had extremely bad judgment back in 2006, and has thereby undermined the fundamental justification for his run for the Presidency.

I anticipate seeing the televised images of him making an appearance before the American troops when he visits Iraq and Afghanistan, as they either politely but unmistakably &quot;sit on their hands&quot; or, perhaps treat him to a thin &quot;smattering&quot; of applause.    

And tehn, I hope that John McCain makes a surprise visit to both Afghanistan and Iraq about 48 hours later, and we all are treated to the YouTube clips of him being warmly treated to a well-deserved &quot;standing O&quot; and a lusty &quot;Hoo-Haa&quot; everywhere he goes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victory . . . military victory . . . is never much more than a means to an uncertain end.  </p>
<p>It is true that many, including myself, have fervently wished for an unmistakable victory in Iraq, but hopefully not just for the sake of victory.  Nor do I want to see a real victory just because I want to be able to say, &#8220;I told you so,&#8221; to my liberal and other left-leaning friends and acquaintances . . . and even a few some paleo-leaning acquaintances.  </p>
<p>I wish it so because there will be a future for both the Iraqi people and for the American people, and for the freedom that we hold so dear.  I believe that future for the Iraqi people and for the American people, and for freedom, will be significantly improved if we are the clear victors.</p>
<p>In that regard, whether or not anyone supported the incursion when it happened in the spring of 2003, is now largely beside the point.  And I personally believe that was also true back in 2006 as well.</p>
<p>I did support the original incursion, but many did not on at least arguable grounds.   Some vehemently opposed the surge, even as late as late 2007, because they did not think it could possibly succeed.  They were obviously wrong.  Still others have been in denial about the success of the surge well into this year.  They were not only wrong back then; they are now stupid. </p>
<p>Sadly, there were others among us opposed the surge because they quite plainly want our nation to be defeated and humiliated &#8212; many of them on partisan grounds &#8212; Bush hatred.  </p>
<p>Call me cynical, but I am not still not entirely certain where Barack Obama falls  on that scale.  He is either a lefty ideologue, or a lefty ideologue who is now in denial.  Either way, he had extremely bad judgment back in 2006, and has thereby undermined the fundamental justification for his run for the Presidency.</p>
<p>I anticipate seeing the televised images of him making an appearance before the American troops when he visits Iraq and Afghanistan, as they either politely but unmistakably &#8220;sit on their hands&#8221; or, perhaps treat him to a thin &#8220;smattering&#8221; of applause.    </p>
<p>And tehn, I hope that John McCain makes a surprise visit to both Afghanistan and Iraq about 48 hours later, and we all are treated to the YouTube clips of him being warmly treated to a well-deserved &#8220;standing O&#8221; and a lusty &#8220;Hoo-Haa&#8221; everywhere he goes!</p>
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		<title>By: Sergey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76504</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76504</guid>
		<description>USA has squandered an opportunity to win Vietnam war decidedly by refusing to bomb DMZ once, by a nuke. This will be enough for NV communists to give up. Irrational and exaggerated fear of nuclear escalation doomed American efforts. West routinely overestimates resolve of  their opponents. Do not repeate this mistake with Iran.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>USA has squandered an opportunity to win Vietnam war decidedly by refusing to bomb DMZ once, by a nuke. This will be enough for NV communists to give up. Irrational and exaggerated fear of nuclear escalation doomed American efforts. West routinely overestimates resolve of  their opponents. Do not repeate this mistake with Iran.</p>
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		<title>By: Americaneocon</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76495</link>
		<dc:creator>Americaneocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76495</guid>
		<description>Great posting! 

Conason, like the rest of the lefties, will never support defense of American interests by the use of force.

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great posting! </p>
<p>Conason, like the rest of the lefties, will never support defense of American interests by the use of force.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: njcommuter</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76494</link>
		<dc:creator>njcommuter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76494</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Our leaders chose a course of action that was politically doomed from the start, whatever the military situation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Balderdash.

Our leaders never put the case properly before the American people.  Summers treats this at length, because war is ultimately a political act.  &quot;War is the continuation of politics by other means.&quot;  (If you don&#039;t know the source of the quote, it&#039;s time to start reading.)  JFK&#039;s presidency was cut short, and LBJ didn&#039;t want to take &#039;Nam seriously--even as he became obsessed with it to the extent of picking routine bombing targets.

Civil Rights may save LBJ from the title of Worst President Ever, but they are the only thing that can.  The Cold War was part of the great struggle of the 20th century, and he nearly blew it because he didn&#039;t have the sense to realize that career military officers probably knew more about waging a war than he did.

And LBJ never had a clear strategic goal for military or foreign policy actions.  The man was a ddangerous politician within the US political system, but a child in the deadly waters of international politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Our leaders chose a course of action that was politically doomed from the start, whatever the military situation.</p></blockquote>
<p>Balderdash.</p>
<p>Our leaders never put the case properly before the American people.  Summers treats this at length, because war is ultimately a political act.  &#8220;War is the continuation of politics by other means.&#8221;  (If you don&#8217;t know the source of the quote, it&#8217;s time to start reading.)  JFK&#8217;s presidency was cut short, and LBJ didn&#8217;t want to take &#8216;Nam seriously&#8211;even as he became obsessed with it to the extent of picking routine bombing targets.</p>
<p>Civil Rights may save LBJ from the title of Worst President Ever, but they are the only thing that can.  The Cold War was part of the great struggle of the 20th century, and he nearly blew it because he didn&#8217;t have the sense to realize that career military officers probably knew more about waging a war than he did.</p>
<p>And LBJ never had a clear strategic goal for military or foreign policy actions.  The man was a ddangerous politician within the US political system, but a child in the deadly waters of international politics.</p>
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		<title>By: N. O'Brain</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76492</link>
		<dc:creator>N. O'Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76492</guid>
		<description>&quot;The most pertinent issue is not what McCain did or didn’t do during the war in Vietnam, but what he learned from that searing, incredibly bloody and wholly unnecessary failure of U.S. policy….he also seems not to have learned why that war itself was a tragic mistake—...&quot;


Thank you John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Baines Johnson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The most pertinent issue is not what McCain did or didn’t do during the war in Vietnam, but what he learned from that searing, incredibly bloody and wholly unnecessary failure of U.S. policy….he also seems not to have learned why that war itself was a tragic mistake—&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Baines Johnson.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince P</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76491</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76491</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So what constitutes “Aid and Comfort”? Does the Constitution require a formal war declaration? &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m no lawyer.. but to me &quot;Aid and Comfort&quot; mean whatever the politicians at the Dept of Justice want to ignore.

And former declaration is war is not required. our enemies are our enemies because they declare themselves to be , not solely because Congress has done its job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So what constitutes “Aid and Comfort”? Does the Constitution require a formal war declaration? </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m no lawyer.. but to me &#8220;Aid and Comfort&#8221; mean whatever the politicians at the Dept of Justice want to ignore.</p>
<p>And former declaration is war is not required. our enemies are our enemies because they declare themselves to be , not solely because Congress has done its job.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Bensky</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76490</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Bensky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76490</guid>
		<description>When there was a hot war in Vietnam but anyone could leave freely, few chose to do so. Then peace came, the peoiple&#039;s liberators arrived--and millions fled. 

That seems to me to be an adequate commentary on the &quot;peace&quot; crowd&#039;s efforts. And they&#039;re proud of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When there was a hot war in Vietnam but anyone could leave freely, few chose to do so. Then peace came, the peoiple&#8217;s liberators arrived&#8211;and millions fled. </p>
<p>That seems to me to be an adequate commentary on the &#8220;peace&#8221; crowd&#8217;s efforts. And they&#8217;re proud of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Good Ole Charlie</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76489</link>
		<dc:creator>Good Ole Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76489</guid>
		<description>I note that a writer above has correctly quoted the constitutional definition of Treason in the Constitution.  Rather than throw accusations around, we now can do a series of measurements: do certain actions (I think, except for rare cases, we can ignore &quot;levying war&quot;, but who knows?).

So what constitutes &quot;Aid and Comfort&quot;?  Does the Constitution require a formal war declaration?  Does a joint resolution meet the standard?  My understanding is that Iraq is basically authorized under this type of legislation.

Over to you lawyers - jailhouse or other - out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I note that a writer above has correctly quoted the constitutional definition of Treason in the Constitution.  Rather than throw accusations around, we now can do a series of measurements: do certain actions (I think, except for rare cases, we can ignore &#8220;levying war&#8221;, but who knows?).</p>
<p>So what constitutes &#8220;Aid and Comfort&#8221;?  Does the Constitution require a formal war declaration?  Does a joint resolution meet the standard?  My understanding is that Iraq is basically authorized under this type of legislation.</p>
<p>Over to you lawyers &#8211; jailhouse or other &#8211; out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince P</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76488</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/05/giving-mccain-a-vietnam-history-lesson/#comment-76488</guid>
		<description>I have no intention on hunting for it, but I read quotes by former NVA generals stating that were on the verge of surrendering the whole war until they noticed the Anti-war demostrations back in the US.  

They got hope from the demos that the US would falter politically and go home and so mentally they moved from a surrender mindset to an endurance mindset.

This is the exact same thing our Jihadi buddies are relying on..

And the treasonous vile Democrats and Leftists are giving them just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no intention on hunting for it, but I read quotes by former NVA generals stating that were on the verge of surrendering the whole war until they noticed the Anti-war demostrations back in the US.  </p>
<p>They got hope from the demos that the US would falter politically and go home and so mentally they moved from a surrender mindset to an endurance mindset.</p>
<p>This is the exact same thing our Jihadi buddies are relying on..</p>
<p>And the treasonous vile Democrats and Leftists are giving them just that.</p>
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