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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s withdrawal proposal a withdrawal from reality</title>
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	<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/</link>
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		<title>By: Michael McNeil</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-78568</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael McNeil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-78568</guid>
		<description>&#8220;Truth&#8217;s&#8221; timetable is defective.  The &#8220;Highway of Death&#8221; incident took place on the night of February 26-27, 1991, G.H.W. Bush&#8217;s unilateral proclamation of cease-fire (which occurred when it did largely as a result of the spectacle of carnage along that road) &lt;a href=&quot;http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE3DC103BF932A35750C0A967958260&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;didn&#8217;t occur&lt;/a&gt; until the night of Wednesday, Feb. 27, Washington time &#8212; nor, contrary to &#8220;Truth&#8217;s&#8221; explicit assertion, was it immediately accepted by Saddam Hussein.  The upshot is that the &#8220;Highway of Death&#8221; happened while the fighting was still very much raging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&ldquo;Truth&rsquo;s&rdquo; timetable is defective.  The &ldquo;Highway of Death&rdquo; incident took place on the night of February 26-27, 1991, G.H.W. Bush&rsquo;s unilateral proclamation of cease-fire (which occurred when it did largely as a result of the spectacle of carnage along that road) <a href="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE3DC103BF932A35750C0A967958260" rel="nofollow">didn&rsquo;t occur</a> until the night of Wednesday, Feb. 27, Washington time &mdash; nor, contrary to &ldquo;Truth&rsquo;s&rdquo; explicit assertion, was it immediately accepted by Saddam Hussein.  The upshot is that the &ldquo;Highway of Death&rdquo; happened while the fighting was still very much raging.</p>
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		<title>By: Good Ole Charlie</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77465</link>
		<dc:creator>Good Ole Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77465</guid>
		<description>Truth:

So you are White Man, Kimo Sabe?

You may not know the reference....sorry.

Where are you?  You-rope? What country?

Just curious...mebbe Canada?

I might add that a &quot;Ex-UN Assistant Secretary-General Heading The UN Humanitarian Mission In Iraq&quot; as a credential rates as laughable.

&quot;All Piss, No Power&quot; my Maine father-in-law would say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth:</p>
<p>So you are White Man, Kimo Sabe?</p>
<p>You may not know the reference&#8230;.sorry.</p>
<p>Where are you?  You-rope? What country?</p>
<p>Just curious&#8230;mebbe Canada?</p>
<p>I might add that a &#8220;Ex-UN Assistant Secretary-General Heading The UN Humanitarian Mission In Iraq&#8221; as a credential rates as laughable.</p>
<p>&#8220;All Piss, No Power&#8221; my Maine father-in-law would say.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77429</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77429</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Calls are now being made to have Western leaders who caused this genocide sit trial in the War Criminals Tribunal. Is this possible and do you support such calls?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I do. I think it has become known as the Pinochet tactic. Pinochet has done us all a favour by being vulnerable and being caught -- even though he was released. It was a signal to everybody from Bush, Albright to Hussein; men and women alike who make decisions that constitute crimes against humanity have got to watch out. They&#039;re not free to travel, they&#039;re not free to do these things. They will be -- and must be -- prosecuted.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;So you think President Bill Clinton should be tried?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Absolutely. He is the commander-in-chief and he approved the bombing of Iraq, for example, in December 1998. There was no justification for this, no UN resolution. It is a breach of international law. It is outrageous and it is, of course, a crime against humanity. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;b&gt;Death For Oil&lt;/b&gt;
Dennis Halliday, Ex-UN Assistant Secretary-General Heading The UN Humanitarian Mission In Iraq.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/071800-102.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><b>Calls are now being made to have Western leaders who caused this genocide sit trial in the War Criminals Tribunal. Is this possible and do you support such calls?</b></i></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I do. I think it has become known as the Pinochet tactic. Pinochet has done us all a favour by being vulnerable and being caught &#8212; even though he was released. It was a signal to everybody from Bush, Albright to Hussein; men and women alike who make decisions that constitute crimes against humanity have got to watch out. They&#8217;re not free to travel, they&#8217;re not free to do these things. They will be &#8212; and must be &#8212; prosecuted.</p></blockquote>
<p><i><b>So you think President Bill Clinton should be tried?</b></i></p>
<blockquote><p>Absolutely. He is the commander-in-chief and he approved the bombing of Iraq, for example, in December 1998. There was no justification for this, no UN resolution. It is a breach of international law. It is outrageous and it is, of course, a crime against humanity. </p></blockquote>
<p><b>Death For Oil</b><br />
Dennis Halliday, Ex-UN Assistant Secretary-General Heading The UN Humanitarian Mission In Iraq.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views/071800-102.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/views/071800-102.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Truth</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77407</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77407</guid>
		<description>Good Ole Charlie,

Looks we got more and more people knowledgeable about 1991 war and &quot;Sand Death&quot; here

So Good Ole Charlie your intelligence makes you saying Iraqis killed in &quot;‘Highway of Death’ Slaughter&quot; due to Hot Sand in the desert?? 
Well done, what about your friends telling about &quot;aerial “smart-bomb” was it so “smart-bomb” no Iraqis killed? 

Let us draw the picture for you here from your words and from you moths:

Most Iraqi death in 1991 by our intelligence guys here was by hitting the head and the tail of the Iraqi military convoy, so Iraqi solders run for their survival on the hot sand in the desert and they died!! This was nothing to do with US military actions in that time.

The point I made and been clear here to these intelligence guys Iraq accepted cease fire US agreed, the aerial “smart-bomb” bombardment came after the agreement which cause Iraqi death so here is the war crime isn&#039;t? 
This is the concerns not how the scenario was and why is it a&quot;&#039; Highway of Death Vehicles’ Slaughter&quot; or was &quot;‘Highway of Death’ Slaughter&quot; of Iraqis or  due to Hot Sand in the desert?? 
Understood folks? Stick to the point we don’t need more knowable stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Ole Charlie,</p>
<p>Looks we got more and more people knowledgeable about 1991 war and &#8220;Sand Death&#8221; here</p>
<p>So Good Ole Charlie your intelligence makes you saying Iraqis killed in &#8220;‘Highway of Death’ Slaughter&#8221; due to Hot Sand in the desert??<br />
Well done, what about your friends telling about &#8220;aerial “smart-bomb” was it so “smart-bomb” no Iraqis killed? </p>
<p>Let us draw the picture for you here from your words and from you moths:</p>
<p>Most Iraqi death in 1991 by our intelligence guys here was by hitting the head and the tail of the Iraqi military convoy, so Iraqi solders run for their survival on the hot sand in the desert and they died!! This was nothing to do with US military actions in that time.</p>
<p>The point I made and been clear here to these intelligence guys Iraq accepted cease fire US agreed, the aerial “smart-bomb” bombardment came after the agreement which cause Iraqi death so here is the war crime isn&#8217;t?<br />
This is the concerns not how the scenario was and why is it a&#8221;&#8216; Highway of Death Vehicles’ Slaughter&#8221; or was &#8220;‘Highway of Death’ Slaughter&#8221; of Iraqis or  due to Hot Sand in the desert??<br />
Understood folks? Stick to the point we don’t need more knowable stories.</p>
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		<title>By: James Edwards</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77394</link>
		<dc:creator>James Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77394</guid>
		<description>Charlie,

Call me a racist all you like, but name calling isn&#039;t an argument. Feel free to define &quot;racist&quot; if you are making some kind of point. I am a European and a white man, and I love my people and my race. If you&#039;ve got a problem with that, that&#039;s your problem not mine.

As for Versailles, everyone knows it came at the end of WWI. Keynes predicted at the time it would lead to WWII, among others, I&#039;m sure. De Toqueville predicted the world wars 80 years before WWI. 

The blockades run by the Allies against the Germans long after the VT contributed greatly as well.

Whether the Germans &quot;started&quot; WWI or not, we had no business getting involved. Washington wanted us to stay out of Europe&#039;s wars, and we would have done well to heed him.

One day we&#039;ll bring adult discussion back into politics. This isn&#039;t the year, but it&#039;s coming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie,</p>
<p>Call me a racist all you like, but name calling isn&#8217;t an argument. Feel free to define &#8220;racist&#8221; if you are making some kind of point. I am a European and a white man, and I love my people and my race. If you&#8217;ve got a problem with that, that&#8217;s your problem not mine.</p>
<p>As for Versailles, everyone knows it came at the end of WWI. Keynes predicted at the time it would lead to WWII, among others, I&#8217;m sure. De Toqueville predicted the world wars 80 years before WWI. </p>
<p>The blockades run by the Allies against the Germans long after the VT contributed greatly as well.</p>
<p>Whether the Germans &#8220;started&#8221; WWI or not, we had no business getting involved. Washington wanted us to stay out of Europe&#8217;s wars, and we would have done well to heed him.</p>
<p>One day we&#8217;ll bring adult discussion back into politics. This isn&#8217;t the year, but it&#8217;s coming.</p>
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		<title>By: Good Ole Charlie</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77393</link>
		<dc:creator>Good Ole Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77393</guid>
		<description>Truth:

Give Iraqis a little credit for intelligence.

Once the head of the column is blocked off by air power and the end of the column is sealed off from retreat, you don&#039;t have to be Napoleon to realize that the middle is next.

And so it&#039;s &quot;Let&#039;s get the hell out of here&quot; time.  So away we go with our bare feet over the sands. (Remember: bare feet have more traction in sands).

So burned out vehicles are in order.  However, I was struck by the relative lack of burned corpses in the photographs.  There were some visible, but none were formless ash: you could see what they were.

Can&#039;t recall tracks in the sand...but obviously, a majority had sense enough to take French Leave.  And live to loose another day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truth:</p>
<p>Give Iraqis a little credit for intelligence.</p>
<p>Once the head of the column is blocked off by air power and the end of the column is sealed off from retreat, you don&#8217;t have to be Napoleon to realize that the middle is next.</p>
<p>And so it&#8217;s &#8220;Let&#8217;s get the hell out of here&#8221; time.  So away we go with our bare feet over the sands. (Remember: bare feet have more traction in sands).</p>
<p>So burned out vehicles are in order.  However, I was struck by the relative lack of burned corpses in the photographs.  There were some visible, but none were formless ash: you could see what they were.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t recall tracks in the sand&#8230;but obviously, a majority had sense enough to take French Leave.  And live to loose another day.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77378</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77378</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Most of them in combat priorto the fabled Highway, but there was substantial desertion prior to the start of combat,&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

First you need to know that I am not ruing for some one, if some info looks to you not right that&#039;s ok, the here different version of story as assume where the truth is laying in between them.

But to your knowledge with &quot;was substantial desertion prior&quot; Saddam forces (Republican grads and Saddam Special forces) were on Iraqi land standing in the back of all Iraqi military forces they killed any one trying come back leaving the war lines that&#039;s why you know better here most Iraqi solders are surrendered to US forces instead goes back to Iraq.

That not first time in Saddam wars, same scenario done by that Abed Hammeed who is one of Saddam closest guy (he is in US hand till now in Iraq God knows!!) who was on other side of the Arab River (Shat Al-Arab) in mid 1980  with in command of Saddam special forces who shooting any Iraqi trying to flee war lines more over he is the guy he intruded the cut of Ears of those who refuses to go back to their military units during the 13 years of sanction.

In mean time I hope with your knowledge that US Military was hired by Kuwaitis and Saudis to push Saddam military out I guess you got paid well from Kuwaitis and Saudis money for your wide  knowledge of 1991 war!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><b>Most of them in combat priorto the fabled Highway, but there was substantial desertion prior to the start of combat,</b></i></p>
<p>First you need to know that I am not ruing for some one, if some info looks to you not right that&#8217;s ok, the here different version of story as assume where the truth is laying in between them.</p>
<p>But to your knowledge with &#8220;was substantial desertion prior&#8221; Saddam forces (Republican grads and Saddam Special forces) were on Iraqi land standing in the back of all Iraqi military forces they killed any one trying come back leaving the war lines that&#8217;s why you know better here most Iraqi solders are surrendered to US forces instead goes back to Iraq.</p>
<p>That not first time in Saddam wars, same scenario done by that Abed Hammeed who is one of Saddam closest guy (he is in US hand till now in Iraq God knows!!) who was on other side of the Arab River (Shat Al-Arab) in mid 1980  with in command of Saddam special forces who shooting any Iraqi trying to flee war lines more over he is the guy he intruded the cut of Ears of those who refuses to go back to their military units during the 13 years of sanction.</p>
<p>In mean time I hope with your knowledge that US Military was hired by Kuwaitis and Saudis to push Saddam military out I guess you got paid well from Kuwaitis and Saudis money for your wide  knowledge of 1991 war!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77370</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77370</guid>
		<description>truth.
I am operating under the assumption that you know better than you speak, so I not attempting to inform you of reality.  Except to say that many people, perhaps not as many as I thought, know better.
The bombers hit the front and back of the column, the column stalled, the drivers mostly got out and ran--good idea--and most of the vehicles hit were empty.  As you know.

The half million--that&#039;s about five times more than reality, as you know.
Most of them in combat priorto the fabled Highway, but there was substantial desertion prior to the start of combat, more prior to ground combat, and the gone guys were initially counted as dead. But they weren&#039;t. As you know.
And now you know I know.
Waste your time at a group home where you have some chance of making an impact.
But if you run into somebody who&#039;d like to try us on, tell them your side of the story.  Might save a lot of grief.  Hell, give them a video.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>truth.<br />
I am operating under the assumption that you know better than you speak, so I not attempting to inform you of reality.  Except to say that many people, perhaps not as many as I thought, know better.<br />
The bombers hit the front and back of the column, the column stalled, the drivers mostly got out and ran&#8211;good idea&#8211;and most of the vehicles hit were empty.  As you know.</p>
<p>The half million&#8211;that&#8217;s about five times more than reality, as you know.<br />
Most of them in combat priorto the fabled Highway, but there was substantial desertion prior to the start of combat, more prior to ground combat, and the gone guys were initially counted as dead. But they weren&#8217;t. As you know.<br />
And now you know I know.<br />
Waste your time at a group home where you have some chance of making an impact.<br />
But if you run into somebody who&#8217;d like to try us on, tell them your side of the story.  Might save a lot of grief.  Hell, give them a video.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77292</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77292</guid>
		<description>neo-neocon 
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;mostly populated by dead vehicles,&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;I don’t think “everybody” knows it at all. I would bet most of my friends don’t know it, for instance. I think the math works out very well;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

neo with all due respect your words not right.
Yes it turned to be a line of Iraqi military and civilian’s dead vehicles all along the road from north Kuwait to Basra South Iraq.

But those vetches how they came along that high way? 
Are they empty when they bombed? 
Did they have people driving them and other retreated after Iraq accepted cease fire?

So where is those almost o.5 Million or more Iraqi solders their family just waiting for loves ones never returned back.

Why I call it war crimes because at the time of ‘Highway of Death’ Slaughter&quot; Saddam accepted cease fire on condition to withdrawal Iraqi military from Kuwait GWB father accepted the cease fire and then while Iraqi army retreated back to Basra in long lines along the high way, US start there aerial “smart-bomb” (its not smart bombing targeting along lines without any enemy fires, asked you military experts is just a game show).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo-neocon<br />
<i><b>mostly populated by dead vehicles,</b></i><br />
<i><b>I don’t think “everybody” knows it at all. I would bet most of my friends don’t know it, for instance. I think the math works out very well;</b></i></p>
<p>neo with all due respect your words not right.<br />
Yes it turned to be a line of Iraqi military and civilian’s dead vehicles all along the road from north Kuwait to Basra South Iraq.</p>
<p>But those vetches how they came along that high way?<br />
Are they empty when they bombed?<br />
Did they have people driving them and other retreated after Iraq accepted cease fire?</p>
<p>So where is those almost o.5 Million or more Iraqi solders their family just waiting for loves ones never returned back.</p>
<p>Why I call it war crimes because at the time of ‘Highway of Death’ Slaughter&#8221; Saddam accepted cease fire on condition to withdrawal Iraqi military from Kuwait GWB father accepted the cease fire and then while Iraqi army retreated back to Basra in long lines along the high way, US start there aerial “smart-bomb” (its not smart bombing targeting along lines without any enemy fires, asked you military experts is just a game show).</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77284</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2008/07/12/obamas-withdrawal-proposal-a-withdrawal-from-reality/#comment-77284</guid>
		<description>neo.
You may be right.
Problem is, worrying about it validates the meme that we shouldn&#039;t kill our enemies.
So, truth may convince fewer people than I thought that he&#039;s a liar and more people than I thought that the Highway of Death (see Falaise Gap) is a war crime.
Could be the math works out better than I thought.
Means I have to get busy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neo.<br />
You may be right.<br />
Problem is, worrying about it validates the meme that we shouldn&#8217;t kill our enemies.<br />
So, truth may convince fewer people than I thought that he&#8217;s a liar and more people than I thought that the Highway of Death (see Falaise Gap) is a war crime.<br />
Could be the math works out better than I thought.<br />
Means I have to get busy.</p>
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