August 7th, 2008

Hillary the undead?

It seems that Barack Obama neglected to drive a stake into Hillary’s heart on the way to his triumphal world tour.

Does it matter? Can Hillary manage to wrest away the superdelegates so vital to Obama’s nomination? Those who consider her a combination of Machiavelli, Lucrezia Borgia, and Lady Macbeth consider it a distinct possibility.

I beg to differ. Obama is still leading in the polls. And even if he weren’t, the consequences of the Democratic Party abandoning the first African-American nominee they’ve ever had would be more catastrophic than a loss.

But if McCain wins 2008, stay tuned for Hillary in 2012.

32 Responses to “Hillary the undead?”

  1. FredHjr Says:

    I think any maneuvering and scheming by Hillary Clinton behind the scenes will do more harm than good to the Party of Jackasses. If you think Chicago 1968 was violent, wait until you see how the Left responds to a coup that wrests the nomination away from Obama. Truly, I would not want to be in Denver to witness that.

    I think the nation needs to have a period of time, whether over the course of one election or over several years, of a decision/confrontation with the Left about whether or not the United States is to move in the direction of European-style socialism. The Gramscian “long march through the institutions” now seems to be paying off, long after the demise of the Soviet Union and socialism being discredited over most of the planet. Even Western Europe is slowly coming to the realization that socialism does not work. But the people of Western Europe are paralyzed on account of the realization that most of them, one way or another, are dependent upon the government teat. I think most know the truth about this, but they are in so deep that there may be no going back. And that’s a lesson we need to pay heed to: there really is such a thing as a point of no return.

  2. expat Says:

    Check ot Best of the Web Today over at WSJ Opinion Journal. It seems like Bill is in Africa telling folks to be monogamous, That’s really going to bring the Black vote back to Clinton. I’ll be waiting for Jesse Jackson’s reaction.

  3. harry McHitlerburtonstein the COnservative Extremist Says:

    “It seems like Bill is in Africa telling folks to be monogamous…”

    Oh, that’s rich!

    More “do as I say, not as I do.”

    Is it true that Hillary has not released her delegates?

    How come she’s not actively supporting him? I dont see that.

    Also:

    Is there any truth to the rumor that George Clooney is planning to host a fundraiser for Barack Obama in Switzerland next month?

    Just sorting thru my e-mail. You know how that goes.

  4. Occam's Beard Says:

    Obama fatigue is setting, as predicted (albeit even earlier than predicted).

    He’s got to come up with a new shtick, one that will appeal to normal people while keep the left-wing crazies on board. Good luck with that.

    It’s hard to see how the Dems can save this situation. If they keep Obama, they lose. If they drop Obama, they lose.

    And they’re in this mess solely because of their penchant for identity politics, which has turned to bite them on the butt, and their embrace of proportional representation. If they’d had a winner-take-all, Electoral College-type system, they’d be home and dry. If you listen carefully, you can hear God chuckling.

    Good times, good times.

  5. Gringo Says:

    While Obama may be tanking, the more that he opens his mouth without benefit of a teleprompter, in spite of the press being in the tank for Obama, handing over the nomination to Hillary would be a mess for the Democrats. Blacks, representing twenty plus percent of the Democratic electorate would either go for McCain or sit it out.

    At the same time, recall polls of several months ago that said that regardless of who won the Democratic nomination, a considerable percentage of the Democratic Party electorate was planning to either sit it out or vote Republican.

    The Democrats are in a tight spot. Chicago 1968 may later be considered a lovefest compared to Denver 2008.

    This is perhaps why Obama has been preaching UNITY for a while. He knows that the storm could hit the sails at any moment.

    If I were Hillary, I would do what Nixon did in 1964. Campaign faithfully, if perhaps less faithfully than did RMN, and come back in 2012. Very few see McCain as a two term president. I don’t, and I am voting for him. Too old to last 8 years.

  6. Occam's Beard Says:

    I can think of only one scenario that would extricate the Democrats from their self-made mess. But it’s too horrible to contemplate, and I pray to God does not come to pass, for the sake of our social fabric.

  7. maneocon Says:

    Can’t stand Hillary. But she is not as arrogant as Obama.

    If Obama looses in 2008, the Clinton camp will exert full revenge on the Democratic party and the press. They will completely reshape the Dem leadership. It would be a cathartic experience. And long overdue.

    Even if he wins, he will be major failure – like Jimmy Carter. This man is not fit to be the president. He thinks he is because he is black. And that Whites owe him that. But he needs to earn it through substance on policy and convictions.

  8. camojack Says:

    As I recall, she only suspended her campaign… 😉

  9. Vince P Says:

    She declared a hudna.

  10. physicsguy Says:

    There will be hell to pay if Obama looses either in Denver or in the election. The race baiting chickens will come home to roost either way. Anyone remember Watts and Newark??

    The Obama campaign has more than once thrown down the gaunlet: a vote for McCain is a racist vote, so any loss by BHO has to be due to racism. The Long Hot Summer will be repeated in November, or we will have 4 years of a a totally inept president.

  11. Dennis Says:

    Normally, I am person who believes that we as a country can solve almost any problem we set our minds. But I am beginning to think that we will have a race war no matter who wins.
    If McCain wins there will be a widespread believe that Obama was cheated out of the Presidency. If Obama wins many of his followers will believe they have the right and power to take what the please from others and they will be protected from any reaction by the government.
    It is that danger and the ultimate result of a candidacy that uses the race card. You only exacerbate the “us” and “them” mentality of those who use “victimhood” as their excuse for violent action.
    One can see the roots of “Facism” and Nationalist Socialism rearing its ugly head. The desire to brand anyone who disagrees with Obama as a racist. The attempt at extorting those with violence if they contribute to Republicans or the name calling needed to make those who challenge a pariah and less than human. The list goes on. One only needs to look at a desire to have a salute, somewhat akin to those who needed to show solidarity with Hitler. All the trappings are there.
    Far too much of “You will do this or you will do that….” I am beginning to wonder if we are voting for or against a dictator.

  12. Rather Read Says:

    If McCain wins there will be a widespread belief that Obama was cheated out of the Presidency.

    That’s why I hope McCain wins by a large margin.

  13. Elise Says:

    It’s also possible to read the scenario of Clinton putting her name in nomination combined with Obama advocating full recognition for Michigan and Florida as a joint effort to unify the Democrats. Clinton would get a roll call vote (I loved that whole “The great state of Alabama casts all its however many votes for the next President of the United States” drama) which would showcase just how well she’d done; her supporters would get to see her treated as a legitimate contender; Michigan and Florida would get respect; and Obama would be seen as the legitimate winner and someone who gave Clinton her due.

    Of course, if you want to be truly Machiavellian, you could then go on to argue that this *is* the plan cooked up by Clinton and Obama but that Clinton plans to double-cross Obama and steal the nomination. And then argue that Obama knows this and is planning to double-double-cross Clinton … And so on.

    I think the nomination is Obama’s. A while back I predicted it could go to Clinton if Obama shifted enough positions to alienate his young, fervent, idealistic base. So far they seem to have absorbed all his pivots and – since there are only two weeks until the convention and Obama is scheduled to be on vacation for one of them – there’s not much opportunity for him to shift position enough to truly alienate them before Denver.

    As for the worry that African-American Democrats will be outraged if Obama isn’t the nominee, I find that amusing. When stories popped up about Democratic women being outraged if Clinton wasn’t the nominee, the response was that they should get over it; that if they truly supported Clinton’s positions the only decent, mature thing to do was to support whoever won the nomination; and the reminder that how they felt didn’t matter because they had no place else to go – it wasn’t like they were going to vote Republican. Surely the same holds true for African-American Democrats.

  14. I R A Darth Aggie Says:

    Is there any truth to the rumor that George Clooney is planning to host a fundraiser for Barack Obama in Switzerland next month?

    Yes. $1,000 to hear Clooney speak, $10,000 if you want a seat a dinner. Elite, effete, and out of touch? Check!

  15. Occam's Beard Says:

    Surely the same holds true for African-American Democrats.

    You’re right, it should. Whether it will or not is another question. It’s not the pols I’m thinking of, but the brothers in the ‘hood who’ve been eyeing that big screen TV for some time, and will jump at any excuse. It’s not as if it’s never happened before.

  16. huxley Says:

    I too am encouraged that Obama appears to have peaked and is averaging a couple gaffes each week.

    Nonetheless…McCain is not all that great a candidate either and Republicans are facing a perfect storm of an unpopular two-term president, an unpopular war, and economic difficulties that give Democrats a substantial advantage.

    RCP shows Obama winning the electoral college comfortably. InTrade favors Obama over McCain: 60% – 36%.

    Unless Obama really starts to tank, I expect November to be close.

  17. Artfldgr Says:

    Hillary shmillary… who cares?

    South Ossetia started shelling georgian places. georgia starts to invade ossetia to stop it. Russian troops who ammassed (conviently) just over the boarder have crossed with heavy machinery. two russian planes reported down. Russians have shelled civilian locations in georgia.

    things sketchy…

    lets see how the reletivists paint this one.

    this was done because they were gonig to shell iran soon to knock out the nuclear reactor (like syrias). that would have started the iran conflict which would have shut russias ability to ship weapons and destabilize the middle east and africa, its two largest natural resources competitors (USA is not a competitor thanks to our socialists).

    this will or should have a large effect on the election. by doing so, they just bumped mccain up, whether they realize it or not.

    the questino is how far will russia go.

    russia also threatened military action over poland and czech republic.

    so i guess they took the billion plus a year we have been giving them, and broke their treaties, and built up new weapons to start another round of the “great game”

    also, the billionaire from georgia who was vocal against russia died last night… they are investigating that he was assasinated like litvenenko (at least now his money will not be used to aid georgia against russia).

    such a small country, and the only thing it has that russia cares about is location. a pipeline of energy.. and a land mass to move weapons thorugh.

    there are reports that the russians ahve caused heavy casualties.

    the premise for this is that russia gave out citizenships to people residing in another country, and now are claiming to be defending her people.

    i guess they should give out passports to everyone in brighton beach, and then when their people start a situation (like they did here), they can then claim to be protecting the succession of russians from ny.

    wackos… but now lots of dead people…

    make talking about hitlery not so important.

    lets see if the most imperial country (takig all its neighbors, carving up europe, grabbing islands in pacific, etc), has lost that urge or is this the start of a new push?

  18. Artfldgr Says:

    “All day today, they’ve been bombing Georgia from numerous warplanes and specifically targeting (the) civilian population, and we have scores of wounded and dead among (the) civilian population all around the country,” President Mikhail Saakashvili told CNN in an exclusive interview.

    ==============

    Asked whether Georgia and Russia were now at war, he said, “My country is in self-defense against Russian aggression. Russian troops invaded Georgia.”

    ==============

    “Clearly they don’t really have boundaries in their activities,” said Georgian Foreign Minister Eka Tkeshelashvili, in an interview with CNN. She said Russian aircraft had bombed “several villages” in Georgia outside of the South Ossetian territory.

    ==============

    Alexander Lomaia, the secretary of Georgia’s National Security Council, said Georgian troops were responding proportionately to separatist mortar and artillery attacks on two villages — attacks he said followed the cease-fire and call for negotiations by Saakashvili.

    ==============

    Saakashvili said the Russian invasion of South Ossetia was pre-planned.

    “These troops that are in Georgia now — they didn’t come unexpectedly,” the president told CNN. “They had been amassing at the border for the last few months. They claimed they were staging exercises there and as soon as a suitable pretext was found, they moved in.”

    Georgia, located on the Black Sea coast between Russia and Turkey, has been split by Russian-backed separatist movements in South Ossetia and another region, Abkhazia.

    ===============

    so will the US be the only country that has this super high behavior standard for war? where is russias smart bombs, and where is the care the leftists say that communists ahve in protecting civilians? they are doing what is in prior conflicts, attacking civilians as a means of breaking the resolve of the enemy.

    nothing has changes, except that the US is willing to try to fight hamstrung in a way that no one else is. it should become clearer as the days roll foward until georgia settles.

  19. Artfldgr Says:

    Russia is claiming that the land of georgia is russian land.

    this can get out of hand..

    other russian reports are claiming a trap (thoguh who had war games next door and have more than one brigade ready to go in hours?)

    this could get scary since russia is describing that they have been tricked… meanwhile they dont want free states to join nato.

    this just in, holbrooke blames russia…

    this will have profound effects on the presidential elections since obama is a communist.

  20. Sergey Says:

    Saakashvili is adventurist and psychopat. He lies as easy as he breathe. Thousands civilians were killed during night bombardment of Tzhinvali by Georgian troops, that were using heavy artillery, tanks and ungiuded rockets “Grad”. Hopefully, failure of Georgian attack will spell political death of Saakashvili.

  21. Artfldgr Says:

    i agree sergey, however, it was dirty of the russians to give passports and citizenship to foreigners in another country, no?

    also from reports it was the insurgents that attacked first… that baited the response of georgia, that then let the already ammassed russian army move in.

    georgia is the one that called for a three hour stay for civilians to leave, russia ignored that. and it was russia that then went outside the conflict area bombing georgian civilian areas.

    ultimatly, georgia is a soverign state, and ossetia is part of georgia, it was never recognized by any state, not even russia, so it is part of georgia.

    the purpose of it all is to create a vise grip for the other two states with troops closer to their borders.

    then again we can look at all the players, and ALL of them went to teh same school system with the KGB… (though this was all predicted about a year ago as this is the last chance to do anything under this president)

    the big question will be whether this is another annexation, something that russia has done for 100 years over and over.

    georgia, ajerbaijan, armenia, are the land bridges for soviet sales of weapons, and since its the leaders doing it, its soviet sales. putin celebrates stalin, the list goes on.

    though things in US politics will get interesting. here is an excerpt from a post that covers the candidates statements as to things.

    seems like obama is out of his depth.


    McCain has capitalized on this opportunity. Here’s a brief statement from the Senator:

    Russia should immediately and unconditionally cease its military operations and withdraw all forces from sovereign Georgian territory. What is most critical now is to avoid further confrontation between Russian and Georgian military forces. The consequences of Euro-Atlantic stability and security are grave. The government of Georgia has called for a cease fire and for a resumption of direct talks on South Ossetia with international mediators. The U.S. should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to call on Russia to reverse course. The U.S. should immediately work with the E.U. and the OSCE to put diplomatic pressure on Russia to reverse this perilous course that it has chosen.

    As that concise and specific statement demonstrates, successful politicians aren’t just lucky either. They’re informed and resolute. When the world goes kablooey, as it does from time to time, the difference between gibberish about world citizenship and the “consequences of Euro-Atlantic stability and security” comes into sharp focus. Here is the vague hash Obama has come up with in response to Russian aggression:

    I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full-scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected.”

    Obama called for direct talks among all sides and said the United States, U.N. Security Council and other parties should try to help bring about a peaceful resolution.

    Forget all the ads, the videos, the talking points, and the accusations. Here’s what it comes down to: In a geopolitical crisis, you have one candidate with a handle on the specific players and their intentions, and ideas on specific ways to move forward: then you have another candidate who says parties “should try to help bring about a peaceful resolution.” There’s your choice.

  22. Sergey Says:

    The massive attack on Tzhinvali was launched by Georgian troops in midnight, after Saakashvili before that proposed cease-fire and negitiations. This is an act of barbaric aggression, massacre bordering with genocide. Without Russian help, Ossetins had zero chance counter this assault. And Russia has obligation to defend its citizens, and will not dodge this obligation. Now, heavy fighting is going on at southern suburbs of Tzhinvali beetween Russian and Georgian troops. The only solution is withdrowal of Georgian troops that invaded the city last night. And do not believe a single word of Saakashvili: he is a habitual liar.

  23. Elise Says:

    It’s not the pols I’m thinking of, but the brothers in the ‘hood who’ve been eyeing that big screen TV for some time, and will jump at any excuse. It’s not as if it’s never happened before.

    I wasn’t thinking of the politicians or of opportunists who – whatever their race – seize upon any excuse – election, hurricane, or sports victory – to engage in criminal behavior. I was thinking of voters.

  24. Occam's Beard Says:

    Fair enough, but the nightmare scenario for Dems would be to withdraw support from Obama and have inner cities across the nation explode in riots long before any voting takes place.

    That would not only cost them this election, but a lot of future support both from blacks – for stabbing Obama in the back, as they would see it – and from whites, for whom the whole fiasco from primary through convention to riots would leave a very bad taste in their mouths. It could result in the Democratic Party going the way of the Whigs.

    And that scenario is practically a given if Obama doesn’t get the nomination. Their only way forward is to give Obama the nomination and take their medicine.

  25. Artfldgr Says:

    hows this sergey, russia can have ossetia, and they will let go of Chechnya, and Ingushetia?

    the reports were an attack by insurgents first… and its not genocide… they called for a cease fire for civilians to leave…

    the kicker though is that russia wouldnt let others in over the chechnya incident, claiming its internal to them. and yet, they dont do the same the other way around.

    Ossetia is part of georgia, its claims to being separate were not recognized by anyone, not even russia.

    if russia says its ok for ossetia to break away from georgia, then EVERY AREA THAT WISHES TO BREAK AWAY FROM RUSSIA MUST BE ALLOWED TO DO SO PEACEFULLY…

    anything else is just hypocricial… and given the russians history, as denoted by their own archives and records, this was orchestrated. period.

    if you like i can drill back through things and show that russia has never let this strategic land area alone.

    cant have it both ways…
    if osettia goes, then everyone wanting to leave the russian country has to be allowed to go.

    if russia claims as it does on chechnya, and igushetia, then it cant get in the way of sovereignty.

    which is it?

    so far the death toll is not even 50% so crying genocide is not valid.

    Without Russian help, Ossetins had zero chance counter this assault.

    and with the help prevented by the russians chechnya has no chance…

    so whats the point… all i see is heads i win tails you lose logic from russian leadership (not the people, they are impotent).

    The only solution is withdrowal of Georgian troops that invaded the city last night. And do not believe a single word of Saakashvili: he is a habitual liar.

    no… the only solution is for russia to withdraw and respect georgias borders, and break off this act of war. they had no right giving out passports to nationals of another country, then lay claim to them. they have no right to mount a counterstrike over territorial borders, and if it wants her borders to be respected, she has to respect other borders.

    U.N. Secretary of State Richard Holbrooke gets it too: “They have two goals. To do a creeping annexation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and, secondly, to overthrow Saakashvili, who is a tremendous thorn in their side.”

    the other goal is to have troops in situe which keeps pressure to comply on the local states who fear similar manipulations. like giving out passports.

    russia opposes sanctions against iran, but charges over boarders at whim when it suits her.

    note that many occupied countries, had russians force migrated to them so that such incidents like this would be able to play out. thats how far they pre thought all this. each previously occupied country ended up with an innoculation of people, and now they are a source of destabilization in each of these countries. they also are a pool of people who can be affected and are often used (even here in the US).

    i do agree that the way this started was really stupid, but that doesnt mean that the rules go south, and russia gets to pick and choose which ones it follows when its convenient for her.

    this isnt just the result of something that happened the past few years, its the result of practices put in place in the last century as a matter of policy.

    saakashvili was probably very wrong with his actions… he was hamfisted and heavy handed.

    they orchestrate history, not react to history…

    it serves a lot of purposes in tactical outcomes in favor of russia and iran. ultimately this is why it happened, and i wouldnt be surprised if saakashvili is doing his part for russia. its possible given other things dont in history. including the overwhelming desire to control both sides of an issue to control outcomes.

    we shall see what will happen, but ultimately the reason is to keep that land bridge open. its critical that they do this. its critical that they also press the global warming thing so that the US doesnt put crude into the market and drive the market price down as others are forced to follow.

    right now there is a lot of work at stake in the middle east and in africa and ultimately russia is desperate to not allow them to get better. and sell their resources on the open market driving down prices.

    its going to get a lot hotter before it gets better.

  26. huxley Says:

    Their only way forward is to give Obama the nomination and take their medicine.

    Looks that way to me. No doubt Hillary will play her hand as best she can to preserve her power and prospects in the party, but unless Obama utterly melts down–unlikely but not impossible–that deal is done.

  27. Sergey Says:

    Ossetia break away from Georgia after bloody civil war ignited by Gergian president Gamsahurdia, where Georgians attempted genocide of Ossetians. Georgians were defeated, and since then Russia has a mandate for peacekeeping there. Ossetians do not rebel, they simply defended themselves against Georgian bandits. They voted overwhelmingly for independence from Georgia in three referenduns in a row. As for Abkhasia, it also was a victim of aggression of Georgian troops spearheaded by criminals specially released from Georgian prisons and armed byGeorgian state. These bandits also were defeated with help from Russian army. Both Abkhasians and Ossetians have Russian citezenship, this was their free choice, as they see Russia as the only defender from fascist regime of Georgia, attempted genocide in these provinces.

  28. Elise Says:

    Fair enough, but the nightmare scenario for Dems would be to withdraw support from Obama and have inner cities across the nation explode in riots long before any voting takes place.
    [snip]
    And that scenario is practically a given if Obama doesn’t get the nomination. Their only way forward is to give Obama the nomination and take their medicine.

    Ah, well, that’s our point of disagreement. I don’t think that scenario is as likely as you do. It’s been 40 years since the inner cities exploded over political issues (assuming we can refer to King’s assassination that way) and I’m truly hoping we’re past that point. Outrage if Obama doesn’t get the nomination, yes; riots, no.

    I don’t think we’re going to find out, though, at least as far as the nomination goes. As huxley says, unless Obama totally melts down the nomination is his and – at least under the insane rules of the Democratic party – rightfully so. There is a chance, though, that we may find out what happens if Obama loses in November.

    (I keep having this vision in my head of angry Hillary supporters exploding after Denver and ransacking the malls stealing Jimmy Choos.)

  29. sneaker Says:

    When stories popped up about Democratic women being outraged if Clinton wasn’t the nominee, the response was that they should get over it; that if they truly supported Clinton’s positions the only decent, mature thing to do was to support whoever won the nomination; and the reminder that how they felt didn’t matter because they had no place else to go – it wasn’t like they were going to vote Republican. Surely the same holds true for African-American Democrats.

    Do not underestimate the number of Democratic women–and men–who will sit this one out, or vote for McCain in the swing states. Lifelong Democrats understand that the Obama “movement” is an attempted hijacking of the Democratic Party. Race is a smokescreen, as it was intended to be. The hostile takeover is by libertarian white males. At this point, the best way for Democrats to get rid of Obama is to let the nomination go forward and then to work for his defeat in the general election. With luck, Obama won’t even be sent back to the U.S. Senate in 2010.

  30. TmjUtah Says:

    “But if McCain wins 2008, stay tuned for Hillary in 2012.”

    Hmmm.

    No matter how many times I run that sentence through my Political Fortune Teller ™ device, the same answer comes up:

    “Denver floor vote Hillary. Graceless Obama victory speech. Outraged humorless liberal white women.

    Burning feces hurt cops broken windows. Paper machete doll heads pink.

    *****

    Hmmmm. But what does it all mean? Guess we’ll find out in Denver.

    However – given what’s happening in Georgia right now, I have to believe that Hillary is probably going to decline the attempt at a floor vote.

    Clintons don’t do history very well, and this next four years is going to be chock full of it.

  31. Elise Says:

    The hostile takeover is by libertarian white males.

    Well, I’d probably give you males, I might give you white, but there’s no way I agree the Obama supporters are libertarian. No libertarian worth his salt would support national health insurance or FISA.

    Clintons don’t do history very well, and this next four years is going to be chock full of it.

    Regardless of whether that’s true, I doubt Hillary would agree. In fact, if she is trying to unseat Obama, I bet she’s arguing that the situation in Georgia makes an Obama nomination more of risk for the Democrats. Hillary spent a lot of time and effort during the primaries convincing voters she was more C-in-C material than Obama was.

    You know, the situation in Georgia also makes McCain’s recent ad – which ends with Hillary dismissing Obama’s experience as compared to McCain’s – very timely.

  32. sneaker Says:

    there’s no way I agree the Obama supporters are libertarian. No libertarian worth his salt would support national health insurance or FISA

    Obama betrayed the libertarian Obots with his FISA vote (but they quickly got over it, cuz he’s the Messiah), and Obama’s brand of national health insurance allows healthy young folks to opt out.

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