September 29th, 2008

Oh oh

Stocks tumble, Congress dickers. Vote-switching might be occurring (I’m watching CNBC), and the whole thing might be amended again.

It’s always fun to watch sausage being made.

My question: I thought there was an announcement last night that most were on board. What gives? As the talking head says, “Everyone is in shock.” And I can’t see how this won’t be seen as the fault of Republicans.

Fasten your seat belts, we’re in for a bumpy ride.

And although I suppose it’s not all that important at the moment, I wonder what Congress’s approval rating is right now?

[ADDENDUM: Now the news is that the market's reaction may cause some vote-switching, and that the bill isn't really dead in the water.]

[MORE: Barney Frank says Republicans are at fault. Republicans say Pelosi poisoned the well by an incendiary and partisan speech, and say they are working on passing a bill and solving the crisis. It seems to me that just because Pelosi set the bait, did they have to spring at it? I would love to see Pelosi resign as Speaker, she's been a train wreck. And I would say this if I were still a Democrat.

By the way, a lot of Democrats voted against the bill, too. For different reasons, no doubt.]

50 Responses to “Oh oh”

  1. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    I think the Democrats have one basic statement: it’s the Republicans’ fault because they are the party of unrestrained capitalism. I am not recalling that they have said anything these last two weeks that does not boil down to that.

    They learned well from Clinton. Never, never stop campaigning, no matter what the situation is. As it seems to work for them, it’s hard to fault the practicality. The morality is deplorable, but it has seemed to produce results.

  2. FredHjr Says:

    Neo, Are they still earmarking 20% of the loot to ACORN?

  3. nyomythus Says:

    This idiotic tirade might be the culprit — it was delivered to the House right before the vote.

    http://www.breitbart.tv/html/184803.html

  4. Bugs Says:

    Reasons for the no vote, according to the media:

    Dems: Don’t reward Big Business for screwing up – let ‘em fail.
    Repubs: Don’t interfere with the market – let ‘em fail.

    They actually agree for once – let ‘em fail. As you said, though, it’s for different reasons.

    I think the no vote gives the Democrats what they want – Big Business will be punished for its greed. Republicans might get what they want, but they’ll have to wait and see if their faith in the market is vindicated.

    I guess the best outcome would be that the market corrects itself without the government’s help and that the savings and loan industry becomes more humble and cautious. (I was going to say ‘honest’ instead of ‘cautious,’ but who are we kidding?)

    So…bets?

  5. njcommuter Says:

    I think that McCain believes that he will still have to work with Congress. Also, he may be expecting that, as president, he can’t afford to poison the center-left that may regard the CRA the same way the regard Roe v. Wade or the Miranda Rule.

    What’s more interesting is why Newt Gingrich and other retired GOP figures aren’t raising a stink about it.

  6. Dave Moelling Says:

    As McCain said earlier (and quickly adjusted!) “The fundamentals of the American Economy are sound”. This is a panic in the 19th century usage of the word. There is plenty of blame to go around in that politicians and the public had common interest in inflating house prices. After we figure out how to shake out the true value of the complex derivatives and everyone takes a haircut, the world will continue to spin.

    What we need is Silent Cal Coolidge back! A deadline set two weeks from now would have allowed a better solution. The treasury and fed could have continued to fight the main fires.

  7. Larry Sheldon Says:

    I’d like to see (above the fold) a knowledgeable discussion of the relevant parliamentary law:

    Under what conditions (besides Motion to Reconsider) can the house consider the question again?

    The enate is going to vote on the same bill–right? What good will that do? The House has already rejected it.

  8. Artfldgr Says:

    I like the start of her speech..

    when has anyone ever asked you for 700 billion dollars? a staggaring figure…

    wasnt she present when obama was pushing 850 billion for socialist outlays to other countries?

    Obama wants to introduce a global poverty tax (“Global Poverty Act” -S.2433) of $850 billion on America to reduce global poverty. This is part of his shared prosperity plan for America not only here at home but with the rest of the global community. The plan would include a tax of 0.7% of gross national product (GNP).

    now let me know why in this debacle, no one, not even mccain is mentioning that obama wanted MORE than the bail out for socialist programs?

  9. Artfldgr Says:

    within two years he turned it around… (fancy that in those two years 9/11 happened)… so i guess pelosi believes that bush caused 9/11

    on another note, she forgets that golden parachutes are negotiated going in… the democrats are really frothing on preventing such and controlling the top positions compensation. why? because this is a global arena, and so she ends up driving the best and the most capable into the hands of, say, china, dubai, etc…

    the saudi princes will not be as stupid… however, pelosi is not on americas side, she is on the other side, hiding and pretending as a good crypto communist would and should.

    she refuses to acknowlege the real reasons… at all… its all a blind bet as to who knows what, and so the less we as a people know, the more they get to make false points and let us figure it out by presentation rather than facts.

    where is the many times that bush brought up regualting fannie, and freddie?

    will she take back all the money that fannie and freddie gave obama?

    its such a screw up that if i had a change to go someplace, i would leave and do so.

  10. dane Says:

    If you look at some of the garbage that was stuck in this bill I wouldn’t have voted for it either. Now – why in the world couldn’t everyone get together and just address the situation at hand and go back and take care of the rest later. I blame all of us for continuing to send these people back to Washington. Where the hell is Jimmy Stewart.

  11. Paul Gordon Says:

    So far, I’ve not found ONE among those advocating “kill the bailout” that even attempts to go into the possible consequences of them getting their way.

    If they are saying this is all overhyped and inaction will not have serious consequences (“Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks.” – George C. Scott in Dr, Strangelove), they need to make that case. So far, I haven’t seen it.

    If this truly is a crisis, then I see it as like being trapped in a burning house, but with access to water and a hose. In such a situation, that is a really lousy time for someone to get into a snit and deny access to the faucet because he’s worried about the water bill.

  12. physicsguy Says:

    After reading Pelosi’s speech I have to say this woman is the poster child of BDS. Whether one agrees with the bill or not, I can’t think of a better way to torpedo the deal. Of course, maybe that was her strategy all along, but that assumes a certain level of intelligence I have yet to see from her.

  13. mezzrow Says:

    “Whether one agrees with the bill or not, I can’t think of a better way to torpedo the deal. Of course, maybe that was her strategy all along, but that assumes a certain level of intelligence I have yet to see from her.”

    Don’t confuse wisdom with cunning. This stunt has almost certainly assured the election of Obama unless we have even more stunning (and in this case totally unexpected) events ahead. It hasn’t been a good day. We may be facing a serious shortage of good days in the near future.

  14. cSimon Says:

    Just before I read neo’s commentary, I finished an email telling a friend how Nancy Peolosi is at the top of my most-disliked list (and only because my parents taught me NEVER to use the word “hate”) She’s right up there with Bin Laden as far as I’m concerned!
    And I think the Dems know it, too — but what are they going to do? Shoot themselves in the foot by admitting they screwed up when choosing her?

  15. cSimon Says:

    NJ Commuter — This last week Newt has been on FOX every night — he’s on the rampage and has been calling down this bailout at least since Mon.

    Artfldger – Not only the money Obama got (more than any other pol in his 3 yrs as all other pols together in 10 years from Fannie & Freddie) with the EXCEPTION of CHRIS DODD. And he’s at the epicenter of writing this thing! Imagine that!

    Obama has been marching around instilling panic starting some 3 -4 weeks ago (long before the first bank failed) by blaming Bush (and thus McCain) for the worst economy since the Depression. My jaw dropped that he would say such a thing — i.e. feel that his political advancement on the back of failure of America’s economy was most important.
    Doesn’t say much for my belief in humanity — especially Presidential candidates.

    …meanwhile the media and various Congress members (can we say Nancy Pelosi again?) fan the flames of the fire –it would be unimaginable that this game-playing and childish taunting and blame-trading……..were it not reality!

  16. J.H. Bowden Says:

    The Democrats have majorities in both houses. I’m glad the Republicans get the credit for opposing crony capitalism though.

  17. TmjUtah Says:

    The only thing that can save the Democrats from total irrelevance is if they replace Reid and Pelosi.

    Media is covering for the Democrats tonight, but the fact remains that almost a third of the caucus did not support their leadership.

    The best that government has is never money. It’s leadership.

    That’s a heck of a problem. Pelosi couldn’t lead a wino into a liquor store. And Reid is no better.

  18. douglas Says:

    “It seems to me that just because Pelosi set the bait, did they have to spring at it?”

    The Republicans delivered a third of their side to make the bill (which they were getting no representation at in the early stages) bipartisan. That’s up from four Republicans who favored the bill before McCain came to town. They did their job.

    What Pelosi’s speech did was re-introduce partisanship to what was supposed to be a bipartisan bill (It’s certainly not what the Republicans in the House wanted). She basically invited Dems to abandon the bill, as they figure they can pin it on the Republicans, never mind the truth.

    The other problem is that we’ve got too many rubber stamps and not enough civic leaders in congress. The one’s against it that I’ve heard (including Republicans) have no real argument against it, and the ones they do are wrong (it’s not a throwaway of 700 bil, and it’ isn’t unprecedented). They’re just too scared to go against public sentiment which right now, is just wrong, and explain it later. No courage in Congress. Imagine that.

  19. Truth Says:

    In the end of the day this crisis it’s not purely US internal crises it’s globally crises, thus should G8 and oil countries come together with US to solve this one…

    May I barrow GWB word “You either with us or against us” This was for War on Terror

    So now for global market financial survival same words should be said.

  20. maneocon Says:

    After hearing her speech, I want to know the Republicans who voted for the bill at all. It is outrageous.

    Not sure what will happen next. But it is time the Republicans showed some backbone and stand up to their constituents.

    But I wonder how many really understand what is at stake here.

    May be someone can explain how GW’s economic policies could have lead to this credit crisis. I am missing the connection.

  21. Lem Says:

    Pelosi is ineptitude made flesh.

    Pelosi, number 3 in line, in what was supposed to be her speakership honeymoon, had trouble getting a non-stop plane ride back to her constituency.

    Pelosi couldn’t pass a bong at a crack house ;)

  22. Gray Says:

    Here’s why this bill needed to be killed: (from the bill)

    d) TRANSFER OF A PERCENTAGE OF PROFITS.-

    (1) DEPOSITS.-Not less than 20 percent of any profit realized on the sale of each troubled asset purchased under this Act shall be deposited as provided in paragraph (2).

    (2) USE OF DEPOSITS.-Of the amount referred to in paragraph (1)-

    (A) 65 percent shall be deposited into the Housing Trust Fund established under section 1338 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act of 1992 (12 U.S.C. 4568); and

    (B) 35 percent shall be deposited into the Capital Magnet Fund established under section 1339 of that Act (12 U.S.C. 4569).

    (3) REMAINDER DEPOSITED IN THE TREASURY.-All amounts remaining after payments under paragraph (1) shall be paid into the General Fund of the Treasury for reduction of the public debt.

    It’s the “Community Organizer Full Employment Act”!

    It was the damned Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act of 1992 that got us into trouble in the first place!

    Unbe-f’in-lievable!

  23. Artfldgr Says:

    I had an idea and i popped over to the google news charts to take a gander at the dow figures, and my guess was right… now i wonder if the conclusion goes with it. and that the prices on the market tanked because everyone was waiting and refusing to commit. my guess was if thats true, then the volume would tell the tale, as a real route would have high volume as everyone drove the prices down in trading over and over. while todays is higher than average, but not unusually high given everything happening.

    so i am thinking the market tanked while standing waiting for a comitment, it teeters waiting… and then didnt have a back plan for not getting a slam dunk, and so sat there.

    tomorrow goes the smaller investors… though i can see some going in and buying at fire sale prices…

  24. ELC Says:

    So far, I’ve not found ONE among those advocating “kill the bailout” that even attempts to go into the possible consequences of them getting their way. I think it is customary that those who make a claim (for example, disaster will befall unless we pass this bill) have the burden of proving it. Besides, though it has certainly been claimed that disaster will befall unless the bill is passed, I don’t recall any claim that disaster won’t still befall even if it is.

  25. FredHjr Says:

    neoneocon,

    Here is something off topic, but perhaps something that could generate an idea for discussion on your weblog. You may be able to write about this in your characteristically balanced and intelligent way.

    Recent demographic data inside the polling last week and this week shows that even older women are now abandoning McCain for Obama. Added to the already overwhelming support Obama has among young females under 30.

    I believe Obama would be an unmitigated disaster for the country. It’s shocking that the American female is going to the the means by which this country and its unique heritage is flung into the abyss.

    American women are destroying their country.

    Why?

  26. Oldflyer Says:

    The dumb Republicans told the world they didn’t vote for the bill because of Pelosi’s speech. The immediate reaction was they sold out the country because their feeling were hurt.

    Brit Hume finally shed some light this evening. Five Dem Committee chairmen voted no. Several, I forget the number, sub-committee chairmen voted no. Something like 16 of the new “conservative” Dems voted no. All of Pelosi’s friends from California voted no.

    Pelosi released all of those Dems from their votes. The Republicans saw those no votes and many of them said we are being led to a lynching. Calls to Congressional offices were something like 80 to 1 against the bill. The public was not sold.

    Pelosi played games with this in more ways than one. With the connivance of the media and the lies by people like Barney Frank, et al, she will no doubt succeed in blaming the Republicans.

  27. Artfldgr Says:

    It’s shocking that the American female is going to the the means by which this country and its unique heritage is flung into the abyss.

    Aristophanes’ Lysistrata?

    “Anyone who knows anything of history knows that great social changes are impossible without feminine upheaval. Social progress can be measured exactly by the social position of the fair sex, the ugly ones included.” — Karl Marx

    german women helped a certain famous man get in position to take power.

    and Agrippina did quite a bit on her own with her own… :)

  28. Gray Says:

    So when in history have older upper middle-class and middle-class women so hated God, Motherhood and Country?

    I’ll bet they’ll claim apple pie causes fibromyalgia and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity….

    Really the only thing they hate more than Jesus is America, and men.

  29. njcommuter Says:

    The version of the bill just voted on had the most egregious crap removed and some decent things substituted, including some Republican suggestions requiring lenders to participate in a government-sponsored insurance program with premiums based on risk. From what I’ve seen, it was a genuinely sensible compromise.

    That said, the bailout has been described as a “crap sandwich.” It puts me in mind of a bit of philosophy I heard in college: “Life is like a s–t sandwich: The more bread you have, the less you tasted the s–t.” George Soros would approve, I am sure. (And the word is not “soot.”)

    (Chris Muir, feel free to quote that last paragraph.)

  30. FredHjr Says:

    My wife is going to vote for McCain. She cannot stand Obonga, but the vast majority of her female co-workers, her friends, and her own sister are going to vote for Obonga. And their reasons tend to be vacuous, or are based on policy understanding that is faulty. They tend to think the threat from Islamic jihad is overblown (Bernard Lewis, among others, thinks American needs to wake up to that threat) and that we spend too much on the military and not enough on social welfare. They tend to hate Christianity and have this irrational fear of “the Religious Right.” They especially hate the Iraq war, even though we have won that fight all along and have greatly stabilized Mesopotamia. None of them have served in the military, nor have their boyfriends or husbands, so these people do not understand what it’s all about.

    I could go on and on. It’s depressing, but it’s the reality. I am resigned to an Obonga victory. But not happily so. I grew up and lived through the 1970′s and I have absolutely no nostalgia for that decade of economic stagnation, national decline, and cultural destruction.

    Believe me, Jimmy Carter II is going to be a lot worse.

  31. Rose Says:

    I am similarly disheartened.

  32. Vince P Says:

    I think Pelosi sabotaged the bill on purpose.

  33. Glen Kuniyuki Says:

    Look at this way, at least if Obama is elected, you will be able to blame a Democratic congress and president for failures on the economy or foreign policy.

    With the Republicans in charge of Congress for 12 of the past 13 years and the executive for the past 6.5 years, leaving you all to rather hallucinogenically blame all the problems on a party that wasn’t in power.

    Think how much easier it will be to field arguments that make sense!

  34. Vince P Says:

    > blame all the problems on a party that wasn’t in power.

    I dont think you understand how the US Senate works.

    For one thing, the Democrats controlled the Senate in 2001 – 2003

    For another, it takes 60 votes to pass bills. The Republicans never had that many Senators.

    Without having that supermajority, the Democrats were able to block anything they wanted to.. and they do so with any Fannie Mae action.

    So its entirely appropriate to blame the out-of-power Democrats because they were able to keep the older policy in force no matter what the Republicans wanted to do.

  35. Truth Says:

    Islamic jihad is overblown (Bernard Lewis,……. They tend to hate Christianity

    Wonder if the writer of this manipulations tell us how many US /Christians are in the heart of Islamic land?

    In Bahrain, in Qatar, in UAE, in Oman in Saudi in Kuwait all those Christians on Islamic land, did any one killed because he is Christian?

    Why some keeps telling these uncertainty and untruthful stories? Is there any purpose you like to achieve?

    Go to Dubai and look b yourself in the street see how many Christians walking around between Muslims. If you go you will find a mixture from every where.

    Can some think with their open minds without hatred and irony?

    How many Americans worked lived for years in Saudi Kingdome? Did they killed because they are Christians?

    Bringing this subject here its far from the topic of this post.

  36. Drew Says:

    Damn
    Hey “Truth”,

    Here’s

  37. Drew Says:

    Hrumph!

    http://www.gulfnews.com/News/Gulf/saudi_arabia/10236558.html

    Here’s one!

  38. md Says:

    the Wall Street Journal: “[The House Republicans] immediate response was to say that many of their Members turned against the bill at the last minute because Ms. Pelosi gave her nasty speech. So they are saying that Republicans chose to oppose something they think is in the national interest merely because of a partisan slight. Thank heaven these guys weren’t at Valley Forge.”

  39. Larry Grant Says:

    Drew, you need to finish that first cup of joe if you’re going to post so early in the morning.

    Here’s the real issue right now is — where do you invest during the next four years of the Obama administration?

    Truth, logic, and fairness are not political words and have no bearing on the outcome of the election. The people are just now tuning in and they only know one thing — the face of this crisis is Bush and Wall Street and they are voting agin ‘em.

    Neo, you were right — fasten your seatbelt, it’s going to be a bumpy ride. Let’s hope the bad guys are all watching the World Series or something and don’t notice.

  40. expat Says:

    FredHjr,

    Re. Older women: I won’t go into the psychological factors, but I wonder whether Obama’s lie that McCain would cut Social Security benefits is still making the rounds. That sure would scare a lot of women.

  41. Artfldgr Says:

    Vince P I think Pelosi sabotaged the bill on purpose.

    of course she did, she is a communist. she wants a socialist command economy where the people cant get in the way of their policies.

    the only way to do that is to convince the american public that capitalism is bad, free markets are bad, that it doesnt work, that it causes booms and busts, and so on and so forth.

    running the beast into the ground with command economy laws that force unfair deals and trades undermine and destroy the parity in honest dealing.

    people not understanding that investments are risks and so they can win OR lose, depending on circumstances and your ability to navigate them. so they think that if a bank sells them a property whose value goes down, they have been cheated by the bank who should have told them. meanwhile, if their property value doubles in 5 years of a 30 year mortgage, they would not consider giving the bank profit sharing since the property is theirs. they would say the bank was crazy for wanting their fair share!

    the problem is that no one believes that usefull idiots would actuall sit on the gang plank over shark infested waters and saw away at their connection to the ship dashing themselves into the sea… but thats why they are referred to as useful idiots.. (while the fellow travelers standing on the same plank, hand them the saws and convince them to work faster).

    “We shall destroy you from within!” — Nikita Krushchev, during the Kitchen Debate, 1959
    .
    “We can’t expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism.” — Nikita Kruschev

    “Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of ‘emergency’. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries of Europe, it was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And ‘emergency’ became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains.” — Herbert Hoover

    how hard is it to understand that their idea of this game is to get you to grant them the steering wheel of your car. they then drive it at high speeds, take turns too fast, alternately pump the break and the gas, shift in reverse while going high speeds forward, and then end up skiddind and slamming into the wall.

    they then toss you the key and say… that was a bad economy/car… it should never have let me be free enough to do those things. a good car/economy would never let me go too fast.. or let me reverse it like that.. a good car would force me to slow down ont eh curves, and so on and so forth.

    no one ever says: your driving the economy in ways that no economy can be driven.

    its a variation of the false purity argument. that if its not perfect, then its cr*p.

    they have the EXACT SAME VIEW of the people and the state. socialism and communism are better since communism and socialism would never let their system be capbable of being driven by asswhipes and destroy it!

    the islamics have the EXACT SAME VIEW, the west deserves to lose their property because they wont defend it.

    all of these things are the same thing… that a surperior system would not only work, but would nto let such “deseases” enter it and have no way to stop them. (sudharto in indonesia did to the communists what they usually do to others when they come to power… he cleaned house, something that our morals were first confounded to avoid our being able to do. like some political aids virus, it disarmed morals with relativism before it created situations that would then create moral dissonance and an inability to handle the situation).

    “Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about Glasnost and Perestroika and democracy in the coming years. They are primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal changes in the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes. Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep.” — Mikhail Gorbachev

    i guess we have been asleep… and still are… as we watch pelosi and franks, the people that either caused this ore are egging it on, throw wrenches into the works, and not have our morals in place to say, these people are enemies, not poltiicians.

    that they are hiding behind a game, in which their status of office allows them to subvert, and pervert, as well as be traitors, while being protected by our lack of ability to call evil “evil” and our lack of moral direction since we hacve no anchor.

    “The threat of environmental crisis will be the ‘international disaster key’ that will unlock the New World Order.” — Mikhail Gorbachev, quoted in “A Special Report: The Wildlands Project Unleashes Its War On Mankind”, by Marilyn Brannan, Associate Editor, Monetary & Economic Review, 1996, p. 5

    1996… he gave the signal.. and what years did the dems engage all the breaks at teh same time disengating all the accelerators?

    the same time…

    if one looked at each 5th column as an army in mental space, that translates to living policy, then you might see the war..

    “Destroy the family, you destroy the country.” — V.I. Lenin

    the feminists are the 5th column for this…

    “A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.” — V.I. Lenin

    the anti-gun lobby is the platoons against this.

    “We must declare openly what is concealed, namely, the political function of the school…It is to construct communist society.” — V.I. Lenin
    and the progressives in school (who started over 20 years before the feminists and created the adults that would don the radical and social destructive hate based ideological position in this 5th column war)

    “The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.” — V.I. Lenin

    pelosi and her ilk are the 5th column at this point…

    hows this for pelosia, obama and franks plan?

    “…first ascertain exactly the position of the various capitalists, then control them, influence them by restricting or enlarging, facilitating or hindering their credits, and finally they can entirely determine their fate.” — V.I. Lenin

    and giving into pelosi
    “It would be the greatest mistake, certainly, to think that concessions mean peace. Nothing of the kind. Concessions are nothing but a new form of war.” — V.I. Lenin

    and why are all the free states sharing in the collapse with their own property boom busts?

    “The aim of socialism is not only to abolish the present division of mankind into smaller states and all-national isolation, not only to bring the nations closer to each other, but also to merge them.” — V.I. Lenin

    and how do you get the good men to stand aside and do nothing?

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)

    easy… demoralize them, marginlize them, make them dislike their society that they sign up with the enemy against it.

    how do you do that? well, let the women do it.

    “I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, ‘hate in love,’ for the men women share their lives with–husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers.” — Judith Levine, Authoress of My Enemy, My love

    you kick them out of the family, and you give them no purpose… then you get them thinking why should i defend the women that hate me? go to the mens rights sites, a lot of young men have this false mentality (and the older men are lax to do anything about it because in a way its valid).

    so what you are witnessing is a process to sell us social toxin, for the purpose of collapse, which gives them the ability to throw out those that rule by meritocracy, and replace them by those that rule by the power of a gun and the state monopoly on deadly force.

    destroy the family, you destroy everything the men defend… you fracture us, and we cant get together to defend ourselves. we have no more reason to… men used to put pin ups to remind them what they are fighting for… imagine how we would have done in wwii if the pinups were later images of germain greer, susan faludi, etc…

    would the men fight for women that say they are all rapists, that change the courts to be unfair to them, that make them belittled and destroy them financially. etc….

    and even the gay lib movment seeks to make more effeminate men… thes men do not suddenly become real men and defend a way of life.. they tend to become cowering sell outs .. not all of course (not to disparage those that serve!), but those in the population more so than the average guy.

    ever hear of softening them up for the slaughter. making them fat, lazy, and unable to defend themselves through weapons, or have the mental fortitide to do so. they would nto survive the camps because they would give up and die..

    so yeah… pelosis thing was and is intentional… since the manate of the russians that fellow travelers shoudl target the parties and not swear oaths (that have legal ramifications), and take over parties. since america does not require a person to register for their party and swear that they are party members. in other words, communists should join both parties, and do their leftist goals (dems and rinos)…

    this allows them to move us to communism and totalitarian (communi/tarian) state global control, by controllilng both sides of an issue, and confusing the situation as both sides seem to act odd for those that would be on a side.

    feminist armies destroy birth, the family and more. they prevent the family from teaching the children. sex education sets parents and children against each other making the state seem like the friend.

    gay libs have their goals in destroying marriage and family too, removing heteronormatiy, etc.

    and so on and so forth… each are like armies of termites tasked with doing whatever they can without doing so much that we call them out on it.

    with that, its only time… and communists serve for life, so they can make plans that are set in their 20s, and keep them in line to today, when they are in their 80s… the same rulers in russia and china were the same ones that were there in wwii!!!

    this is how you take down a state with so much military power they think they are invulnerable.

    Ethnic conflict stoked by government economic intervention, not globalization
    http://www.physorg.com/news141917496.html

    turns out that their helping is following john cleeses rules.

    John Cleese – How to Irritate People – Airplane Sketch
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJSey8HRUhU

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Irritate_People

    the point here is that he explains that you can have free reign to irritate (or hurt) soemone by basically pretending to help or being in a position of power (like a pilot who everyone trusts).

    under the guise of helping to stop starvation, we cause it since local farm economy collapses when we give out free food and put the local farmers out of work. then next year they dont or cant grow food, and so we send more.

    this has the effect of having americans think that their socialism is great and helpful, while the nasty power people are using it to destroy the food economy, which destroys births, which destroys communisty and self determinatino, which keeps their raw materials out of the market and keeps russia, and other socialist state materials more expensive.

    even the desire to save the environment is a thinly veiled means of insuring that socialist and islamist countries are funded with our money as we hace no other choice but to buy from them.

    by the way… these people may not knwo that they are fellow travelers. thats the beauty of creating them through educating your enemies children.

    they are very sincere in their damaging and wrong beliefs, that they can sell tehm and never get caught as spys, or subversives, or anything.

    like pre programmed automatons, they dont have to connect with the body politic to choose the wrong thing… they have been taught the wrong thing is the right thing, and the confusion in the population lets them not discover the validity.

    once we stopped policing subversion (when lattimore won against the valid mccarthy), we no longer could stop them from poisoning the pillars of our society.

    those who have experience in these political systems have a different view than americans, who are in the same state bella dodd was in before she lived and discovered what she was a part of.

  42. Paul Gordon Says:

    “(I’m watching CNBC)”

    Neo:
    Now cut that out!
    It’s not good for your digestion.

  43. Dan Says:

    Notice how Obama is lying in the weeds on this one. A few generic comments about not panicking are all he is willing to make. That may be smart politics, but it’s not leadership.

  44. Gray Says:

    Now Hillary says:

    “It sounds dire but there is a risk that commerce could grind to a halt,” she said.

    Oh, BS…. Now I know the pubbies did the right thing killing this bill.

    And people call Sarah Palin dumb?!

    “…risk that commerce could grind to a halt.”

    What does that even mean other than: “I’ll scare you until you fork it over, taxpayer!”

  45. Gringo Says:

    An interesting chart here, which points out that those with safe seats were more likely to vote for the bailout package, than those who did not have safe seats. Both Republican and Democrat.

    http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2008/09/fun-with-charts.html

  46. Artfldgr Says:

    i was right!!!!

    the volume wasnt heavy enough to be a panick..

    can you imagine a panic in which the volume of transactions in the day isnt even double the average? it plummeted becasue everyone was waiting whether to zig or to zag..

    today they moved and said screw it..

    485 points up in one day..

    that would make the two day result just under 300 pt drop..

    so much for todays doom headlines.

    meanwhile did anyone read these articles?
    they had people with no degrees, just hacks, all calling dire emergencies of the 1929 depression kind. (of which the fall of the market would have to be a heck of a lot larger than 777 to match).

    the volume is relatively the same.

    so my guess is that everyone last night looked at what happend for holding still, loaded for bear, then came out shooting today to gather up the stuff.

    i would say that they held tight, prices dropped, the average joe panicked and moved their money out of things that would have had no problems, and the institutionals went in and picked up all the dirt that would not be hurt by wall street directly

    todays rise was easy money…

  47. Truth Says:

    Drew, Just showing here another stupid mind.

    We were talking about mainstreams and believes not individual crimes.

    Go search you society how many crimes there.

  48. Howard Says:

    PELOSI, REID, AND OBAMA will say or do anything to get their greedy power hungry hands on that $700 Billion dollars. Once they get it, they will flush this country down the toilet … and, all you fools who supported them will feel betrayed and victimized … but you will have nowhere to go for help!

  49. br549 Says:

    Sorry for going overboard the other day. Needless to say, I was pissed. Still am. Looks like I always will be. I have more faith in the house than the senate.

    Truth, looks like English is your third language. Is this blog your “assignment”?

  50. Vince P Says:

    br: We think Truth lives in Syria

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About Me

Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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