CNN can’t count, but is that really a surprise?
This clip fails to answer the burning question of whether those who work for the MSM are abysmally stupid or whether they are unashamedly in the tank for Obama and think we are abysmally stupid.
Actually, it does. It’s the latter, but who’s counting? Certainly not Soledad O’Brien.
Math is hard and it is cruel of you to think Soledad should bother her pretty little head with it. Not to mention her card said “overwhelming” and “handful”, who is she to question the great teleprompter in the sky.
If you played that clip real fast … you’d never even notice.
C’mon, that had to be a SNL script. Really, it had to be.
PerJKB, it does look as though she knew beforehand what she was going to say, and paid only perfunctory attention to the hands before saying it.
That IS funny!
Campaign check: Lies and half-truths outed
Truth,
Maybe SFGate will publish some of Obamas/Bidens “lies/half truths” next week. But I won’t hold my breath.
OMG wouldn’t that make your post a lie/half truth in itself!
I was walking by the TV and caught this first hand and replied, “Can we turn it to FoxNews please, this is ridiculous”.
It’s impossible to tell because the camera doesn’t show the entire crowd, but based on movement of hands it looked like 13 for Biden (8 on left and 5 on right) and 10 for Palin (5 on each side), so that’s 57% for Biden to 43% for Palin. In debate terms, that’s a significant margin.
She should have paused to do an actual count. She barely registered the show of hands.
No, 13 to 10 is *not* a significant margin – the sample size is too small to go by the percentage.
If they had polled three people then one candidate would have won by 66.6% to 33.3% – and even MORE significant margin. Except of course it’s not by sample size.
Even then in order for that percentage to be worth anything it has to be a sample representative of the population and I bet CNN”S wasn’t (in fact, I doubt that from *any* sample that small). Not only does the sample need to be fairly large but it needs to be chosen well too – many of our polls today focus on large cities because it is too expensive to do otherwise. Hence they tend to skew the results a bit (and in some cases by large amounts).
A great example of this is to look at the polls Instapundit runs vs the ones Daily Kos runs – about the same margins and in *totally* opposite directions. Large samples and statistically significant margins but *really* bad for predicting what the entire populace of the US thinks.
Though you can bet that the candidates themselves spend the money for good polls and do not rely on gallup and other national pollsters. I’m sure they are interested in what they say, but I highly doubt it is like the movies where they depend on others for accurate polling and are just waiting in anticipation for the new ones to come out to see how they are doing.
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Someone on another thread asked why we arent adept at fighting back. Fight back with what?
Obama today, in response to Sarah Palin’s reminder that the messiah pals around with terrorists, said that the McCain campaign was now resorting to “Swiftboat” attacks, as if all you had to do is mention the buzz word “Swiftboat” and instantly dismiss what ever charge leveled at you. Once you’ve mentioned the word “swiftboat” a curtain comes down and obscures what ever character issue any conservative raises.
Meanwhile any charge leveled at Palin or any other special target of liberal derision sticks with out further analysis.
How do you fight that?
Palin 7 on the right, 7 on the left with one person’s body off screen but you can see the right arm move down. Another person on the right raised hand for Palin and then took it down quickly. Palin has Seven on the left because two are around the host’s body, with another person not raising his hand until 2 seconds after the count has been called for, with the remaining 4 on the far left of the screen.
Biden 5 on the right with 9 on the left with one person off screen but, again, with the hand motion present.
That is 14 vs 14. “Joe Biden wins by a significant margin” indeed.
It took me 10 views to count (each) both Biden and Palin’s votes with accuracy. And I could look at both sides of the divide, while the host has to turn her pretty little head around.
The statistical differences for the left side and the left side are plus or minus 2.
Upper 5% for Biden is Biden 11 right + 7 left vs Palin 5 left and 5 right. Lower quantile for Biden’s “significant margin” is Biden 7 left and 3 right and Palin 9 right and 9 right. That’s 10 to 18. Conduct a statistical breakdown of the means using probability odds and what you get is a -+ difference of 2 for Palin and 2 for Biden, with the majority of reasonable errors between 12 to 16 and 16 to 12.
The odds are stacked, however, in one respective given that 18+1 (no hands) were on the left but only about 12 were seen on the right.
Assuming they wanted a 20 person by 20 person divide, with 40 people in the focus groups (which sounds about right), we are missing 2 on the left and about 8 on the right. Range of error for the 2 are statistically irrelevant. It is either even or they both go towards either one candidate. So you have a 50/50 chance of it being even.
The 8 unknowns can either be divided up evenly, 4 for each, or unevenly within the margins of error.
Actually, it does. It’s the latter, but who’s counting?
Well, I can guarantee you that the host wasn’t counting.
Neo, you know about psychosomatic or stimuli that provides sub-conscious reactions out of people. I presume you know that given an equal number of hand raises, the group that raises their hand in unison, with great height, and without hesitation will be seen as superior in number than the group that raises their hand in disunion, at less height, and with some hesitation.
That is my explanation for why the host may have thought she knew the deal but she was getting fixed by what I call the psychological triggers used in psychological warfare and propaganda. The users of psychological warfare and propaganda cannot afford to be blithely unaware and vulnerable to such triggers. But the MSM is fine. They can use propaganda and psychological warfare on us, something the US military is expressely forbidden to do, and continue to remain blithely unaware and vulnerable, Neo. In any real war, Neo, they would have been exterminated by now given such flaws and openings.
How do you fight that?
Learn your propaganda and psychological warfare.
Like, for example, when somebody says five hands were shown for Palin when seven hands were shown for Palin, and you have the video of this which is the same video they saw to make their count, then don’t just let it go like that. Find it out, and find out why and who and how.
We don’t live in an age or a nation where we can just rely on the President to do our propaganda and self-awareness operations for us. We have to do it ourselves. If we remain ignorant when we have the tools and resources to free ourselves of it, we have nobody to blame except ourselves. The President is empowered to use Executive authority and the bully pulpit to inform us of things and to lead us. But that power comes from the Constitution and the Constitution’s power comes from us, presumably.
Yeah, I saw this live, and it was worse than that- if you can get the rest of that clip, at the end she has a peculiar smile and says some people did decide who to vote for that night, and so won’t be back to participate as ‘undecideds’ for the last presidential debate. Thing is, she never tells us who they decided for. Anyone like to venture a guess? I actually caught her review report the next day on AC, and it was just as bad, and still no report of who the deciding people decided for. Don’t think it makes a difference? I do. I believe that a fair number (significant to be sure) that are undecided will end up going for whoever they think the winner will be, the apparent strong horse. That means that as the media misrepresent the support Obama has, it certainly helps him in a material way.
It would be interesting if a well known blogger could try to contact Soledad OBrien, or her producers and find out how many decided and for whom.
I watch Glenn beck when I remember to, and otherwise never watch CNN. So I ask, was this poll taken in a CNN studio? If not where? And what was going on off screen that had one or more people quickly lower their hands when asked if Palin won?
Just wondering. Thanks.
Ymar:
“Learn your propaganda and psychological warfare.”
Please. As if it were just that simple.
There was an investigation surrounding the “outing” of Valery Plame. Anyone could see from the outcome (hell, before the outcome), whether or not the charges were valid. Yet Cheney, Rove, Libby and probably Bush is guilty of the crime in the public mind anyway.
An unrepentant left-wing terrorist named Bill Ayers jump started Barak Obama’s senate campaign. This is a fact is being shrugged away and replaced with as many lies about Palin that can be imagined into being, and they’re getting away with this, and your entire advise for how to counter this is for us to be aware of the propaganda?
Im already aware of the propaganda. I asked how to fight it and you return with stuff we have already have been doing. The pointing out of relevant facts is no longer enough to sway opinion.
Soledad O’Brien? That name is perfect! How many fingers am I holding up Winston? Four or five? Knowing that its propaganda isnt enough.
Do you expect any better.
FYI: I blew up the video to full screen, froze the video when hands went up and counted each (those for Palin & those for Biden 4 -5 times).
I got 13 for Palin; 11 for Biden & I did this over and over again. So my results were at least much closer to Ymarsakar.
Bottom line: more biased “news” crap.
Truth — I checked out your link to “Campaign Check” but it is quite incomplete. It seems they balance one untruth/partial truth on one side w/ one on the other. If there are more on one campaign’s side or the other, apparently they don’t get page space. That hardly provides fair fact-checking. I’ll check back a few more times to see if I might have just caught the site on a day when they happened to match inaccuracies one-to-one.
Ah, just checked again and realized the link from Truth was actually part of an article in The San Francisco Chronicle.
For those interested, the Home Page for Fact Check is actually:
http://wire.factcheck.org/
Last note re: Fact Check — It does seem to be biased as it does not provide complete explanations (surprise) and seems to rely on other news sources (MSM) for “correct” information.
There was a piece just on news about Fact Check.org and it was created and is run by a 30-year veteran reporter (did not indicate the specific orgs. for which he worked.) (He did, however, admit that all workers would be biased because they are humans — but they TRY their best to be “honest.”
You all be the judge!
– this is just stunning, who in the hell does this person think she is? It is so insulting….
Without trying to turn this footage into the Zapruder film, I watched it again, and I think it’s a tie, 13 each.
Biden: 8 on left, 5 of right
Palin: 6 on left, 7 on right
So she’s wrong. In her defense, many of the Palin voters barely moved their hands, so you could only register their votes if you watched closely.
Come on, people! Raise your damn hand!
Ymarsaker, I think the one you’re counting on the left who raised her hand after the vote (just as the clip ends) was just adjusting in her seat, because she voted for Biden already.
csimon, I still get 13 for Biden. Did you count the woman blocked by the host?
Thanks for reminding me why I’ve programmed CNN out of my TVs.
“it does look as though she knew beforehand what she was going to say, and paid only perfunctory attention to the hands before saying it.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Give that man a cigar.
One Word:
Cognitive Dissonance
Ymar:
The President is empowered to use Executive authority and the bully pulpit to inform us of things and to lead us. But that power comes from the Constitution and the Constitution’s power comes from us, presumably.
This right no objection but what happen if turned like GWB with minimum support and backing by US people he still holding his power to pass his orders!!
So where is the power that comes from US citizenry?
Yup in the Constitution but did really people use their power as in the Constitution?
Yet Cheney, Rove, Libby and probably Bush is guilty of the crime in the public mind anyway.
They had the power to defend themselves and they refused to use it. That is not our problem. Or rather that will become our problem, but it is not we who should be held accountable for such things. We do not have the power, they did, and they refused to use it.
Enemies are there to fight you. That’s not their fault. If you have power to defend against them and you refuse to use it, then what happens is going to be your fault, however.
Libby got charged for perjury. That’s what happened. They let the Democrats control a political prosecution. That’s what happened. That’s what happens when you let Dems cook up kangaroo courts for political prosecution details.
and your entire advise for how to counter this is for us to be aware of the propaganda?
How do you think Democrat propaganda works against the majority of Americans? Cause the majority of Americans couldn’t recognize, work, or defend against propaganda if their damn lives depended upon. That’s the problem.
Central defense and mobilization will help, yeah, but it is the same as terrorism. There is no way you can harden and defend EVERY thing in America. It has to be something else. Either you avoid it entirely by hitting them at home, which didn’t happen with Obama, or you get ever single American hardened against terrorist attacks by arming them with both knowledge and weapons.
Im already aware of the propaganda.
I’m talking about making more people aware and not just about Democrat propaganda, but all propaganda.
People can be aware all they want. If they don’t get the message out, if they don’t even try, who do you think will win?
Action is what matters in war, not being intellectually aware of things. And that is why Democrat propaganda works better than Republican propaganda. Democrats just do more things, they cheat more, they sabotage shat, they steal, connive, threaten, and just “do more stuff”.
Take the first step and worry about a future problem when you get to it.
I asked how to fight it and you return with stuff we have already have been doing.
“We”? You’re forgetting the fact that you need the rest of America to fight it. You can’t fight it by yourself or even just with Republicans.
The US military thought they could take down Saddam and fight it out with Al qaeda by themselves in Iraq. Guess what happened to that idea.
No matter how powerful you think you are, no matter how right and just you think you are, you will always need help taking down somebody who already controls a large segment of people’s minds and hearts.
If the US military can convince a bunch of backwards Sunni tribesmen to back us against AL Qaeda, I’m pretty sure we can convince at least 15% of Americans how to spot propaganda, use it, and more importantly, defend against it from both sides.
We only need 25% at most.
And I would like to remind people that psychological warfare methods is not the same thing as being aware of propaganda, enemy or allied. Psychological warfare methods use what a psychoanalysts does with his patient, like SHrinkwrapped’s blog posts about his anonymous patients, and use it to systematically deconstruct and annihilate the defenses individuals build up against our message.
Cultural, family, political, etc: it doesn’t matter. All can be used to wipe away an individual’s self-denial. The Sunnis denied American help. Until somebody used psychological warfare on them to convince them that AQ is their enemy, not us. And that “somebody”? He got assassinated during the Awakening.
The central tribe of the AL Anbar Awakening, along with the other tribes they convinced, continued on, however. WHy? Cause the psychological warfare and political actions took. Once they knew the gig, they weren’t going to go back. Not unless we violated our part of the deal.
The same is true of America’s voters.
The pointing out of relevant facts is no longer enough to sway opinion.
If you think that is the only thing propaganda and psychological warfare allows, then you had best get to learning more about them.
Read up on Shrinkwrapped’s latest post on catastrophic ……
So she’s wrong. In her defense, many of the Palin voters barely moved their hands, so you could only register their votes if you watched closely.
Well, kamper, maybe they knew what the gig was about and the kind of people they were around. You didn’t want to step out of the circle dance until you know it is safe to do so.
Given fake liberal social pressure put on people to go with obama, it would be natural for people to hesitate about saying Sarah Palin got things right. Everything is so much easier when you got self-righteousness riding on your shoulder.
Ymarsaker, I think the one you’re counting on the left who raised her hand after the vote (just as the clip ends) was just adjusting in her seat, because she voted for Biden already.
No, she didn’t. Watch the Joe Biden vote again. You will clearly see that the arm motion comes from FAR left off screen. There is another person there on the bottom left row. It is not her arm, but it is her arm being held up, and for a long time, in the Palin vote. The woman in the green. Look to her left on the Biden vote and you will see.
For Palin’s vote on the Left, it is 4 on the second row, 1 on the top, and 2 on the bottom row.
You need to keep click on the youtube time strip and replaying that moment over and over again while you keep the count in your head. It is the easiest way to get rid of errors and the most accurate, far more accurate than simply taking a freeze shot. The detail isn’t clear enough and the human eye catches motion better anways.
So where is the power that comes from US citizenry?
That power could elect or not elect him in 2004. It could also tell Congress to fund or not fund Bush’s military adventures. If you really believe Bush is screwing the nation, then you had better do everything you can to stop him, including impeachment.
Dems did none of the above. They tried to threaten and obstruct, but no actual actions meant to impeach or defund the military.
Yup in the Constitution but did really people use their power as in the Constitution?
60% voted in 2004, so yeah. Not as many as could be, but enough. Others must not have cared, so they can’t say jack about BUsh.
Well now Ymar, I think you have made some good points. The evil Bush administration had not fought back as they should have and Republicans in Congress had mostly tucked their tails between their legs, and with the Abramhoff affair, left themselves vulnerable.
Now at the 11th hour “the Maverick” is allowing Palin to take the shots at Obama that only months ago would have made an outcast of any other conservative that tried. So yeah, in that regard it is the fault of people on our side who are not recognizing that this is a full out culture war, and we are not winning it.
This not MSM this came from The Honorable Madeleine Albright, Former U.S. Secretary of State
Palin, Albright spar on quote
Btw, let not forgot The Honorable Madeleine Albright
“We have heard that a half million children have died,” Stahl said. “I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And — and you know, is the price worth it?” Albright replied, “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.”
It must be wonderful to be a citizen of one of the lesser European nations. You know; the ones who never contribute anything of substance to world affairs yet constantly back-bite the United States, which in their eyes, can be wrong if we invade a rouge nation, and wrong if we merely contain it, giving us effectively….no effective means to handle any situation.
And why are we concerned what people in Europe think? I, myself, cannot image a reason to be concerned with what people from the lesser nations think of us.
By the way “Truth”; how did your country make out in the “Oil for food” scandal?
how did your country make out in the “Oil for food” scandal?
You know why you go first and asked you thuggish Paul Bremer III and his Co. where 9 Billions vanished?
Also asked in the way GWB where 6 years Iraqi oil production goes to?
Asked your GWB where that 5 Billions Ayad Allawi handed to US?
As for your question, you need to ask who control UN system and Offices, who run the show and get the fake regulation.
Asked Your UN Officials they will tell you the right answers.
harry McHitlerburtonstein the Conservative Extremist Says:
“Obama today, in response to Sarah Palin’s reminder that the messiah pals around with terrorists, said that the McCain campaign was now resorting to “Swiftboat” attacks, as if all you had to do is mention the buzz word “Swiftboat” and instantly dismiss what ever charge leveled at you.”
It’s a common Obama error. He uses left wing talk and themes and expects it to resonate with the mainstream… which just shows to me he is a lefty who lives in a bubble… But anyway, he can wave the swiftboat talisman around all day; it has no mojo with everyday people… So, stick with swiftboat talk O!, no one knows what your talking about so your wasting your breath on in an effective defense.
Btw, those people from the lesser nations also dont give as* what you think.
Coalition of the lesser nations
Uganda
Angola
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Solomon Islands
Tonga
hMtCE:Do you know these nations where about on the map? what nations are?
Truth: You list 9 nations barely out of the Stone Age, with a history of civil war, starvation and government corruption. You have pretty big “stones” lecturing the United States.
So much for the smug little European.
You know why you go first and asked you thuggish Paul Bremer III and his Co. where 9 Billions vanished?
I was under the impression that the Shia tribal corruption politics got those 9 billions.
Asked your GWB where that 5 Billions Ayad Allawi handed to US?
The US GDP is upwards of 11 trillion, T. What would Bush do with 5 billion? Keep it in his personal refrigerator like Jeffey?
Btw, those people from the lesser nations also dont give as* what you think.
if that is true, why did they join our Coalition but couldn’t contribute any real military power? It was just for the prestige, wasn’t it. The prestige of saying you have connections in America and have worked with us in a common cause. These are the nations that don’t give as^ what we think?
That video is classic CNN. Check this one out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTkqosRiyYo
Ymarsakar
Please — can you give me any book titles on Psychological Warfare and Propoganda? Can Neo or someone else?
I’d like to learn.
Thank you.
P.
I was under the impression that the Shia tribal corruption politics got those 9 billions.
I think you forgot or “out of the Stone Age,”
“The corroded and corrupt state of Saddam was replaced by the corroded, inefficient, incompetent and corrupt state of the new order,” Ali A. Allawi concludes in “The Occupation of Iraq,” newly published by Yale University Press.
Allawi, a cousin of Ayad Allawi, Iraq’s prime minister in 2004, is a member of a secularist Shiite Muslim political grouping
Portia,
your best bet is to read the archive histories. otherwise you will end up delving into technique, rather than waht its used for and who used it.
you can read some interesting books in advertising as well where leaders tell lessers what they did.
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n11_v14/ai_20405494/print?tag=artBody
you can also read at FAS.ORG
several books you can read…
Comrad J (i think thats tretikovs book)
the sword and the sheild, which i think are about the mitrokhen archives. then there is stuff from VENONA…
if you want to get into techniques, then study Goebbles, and the socialist/communist states.
Russian Spies Are Alive, Well
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_9_15/ai_54032769/print?tag=artBody
basically the best way to learn is to read about what is known and how far things can go, and how they did it. from rules to radicals by alinsky, to the manuals from ANC, and others…
the article above talks about sleepers, and so on.
you will find that it becomes harder to tell whats real the more you delve into the subject, and start to learn things about “common knowlege”
here is Wiki on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
is an antisemitic tract alleging a Jewish and Masonic plot to achieve world domination. It has been proven to be a plagiarism,[1] literary forgery,[2][3][4] fraud[5][6] and a hoax.[7][8][9] It was first published in 1903 in Russian, in Znamya (“The Banner,” a newspaper). The text has failed to pass any scholarly standards of authentication as an alleged historical document or record. A version of it was published in 1905, as a final Chapter XII in a second edition of a book by Serge Nilus on the subject of the coming of the Antichrist. Accordingly, “The Protocols” are originally intertwined with this author’s Russian Orthodox dogma.[10]
====================
The text was popularized by those opposed to the Russian revolution, and was first disseminated by the instigator of the Kishinev pogrom, Pavel Krushevan, its first editor (and owner of Znamya), in 1903. It was similarly used in opposition to the Russian Revolution of 1905, the October Revolution (1917), and the peace negotiations at the end of World War I which resulted in the Treaty of Versailles (1919), becoming known worldwide during the 1919-1920 period when it was widely circulated in the West, and thereafter. It was also published in 1906 and 1907 in Russian, for the first time in pamphlet form, ed. by G. Butmi, after the pogroms, and in partial response to the Russia defeat in the Sino-Japanese war. These imprints, published by the Union of the Russian People, bore the title, “Enemies of the Human Race” (translated from the Russian).
It is known to have commenced such circulation in typescript form, translated from the Russian language, among the diplomats and officials involved in the negotiation and execution of the peace settlement which brought a formal end to World War I.
It was first published (printed) in the English language in 1919 as two newspaper articles in the Philadelphia Public Ledger by the famous journalist and subsequent Columbia University professor and dean of the journalism department, Carl W. Ackerman, but all references to Jews were replaced by references to Bolsheviks and Bolshevism.[15]
The Great Depression and the rise of Nazism were important developments in the history of the Protocols, and the hoax continued to be published and circulated despite its debunking.
its a GREAT example of propaganda that has a life of its own… today you can ask people and some will mention it, and modern movies dont help.
The Protocols also became a part of the Nazi propaganda effort to justify persecution of the Jews. It was made required reading for German students. In The Holocaust: The Destruction of European Jewry 1933—1945, Nora Levin states that “Hitler used the Protocols as a manual in his war to exterminate the Jews”:
Despite conclusive proof that the Protocols were a gross forgery, they had sensational popularity and large sales in the 1920s and 1930s. They were translated into every language of Europe and sold widely in Arab lands, the United States, and England. But it was in Germany after World War I that they had their greatest success. There they were used to explain all of the disasters that had befallen the country: the defeat in the war, the hunger, the destructive inflation.[49]
Hitler refers to the Protocols in Mein Kampf:
… To what extent the whole existence of this people is based on a continuous lie is shown incomparably by the Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion, so infinitely hated by the Jews. They are based on a forgery, the Frankfurter Zeitung moans and screams once every week: the best proof that they are authentic. […] the important thing is that with positively terrifying certainty they reveal the nature and activity of the Jewish people and expose their inner contexts as well as their ultimate final aims.[50]
Hitler endorsed it in his speeches from August 1921 on, and it was studied in German classrooms after the Nazis came to power. At the height of World War II, the Nazi Propaganda Minister Joseph Goebbels proclaimed: “The Zionist Protocols are as up-to-date today as they were the day they were first published.”[35] In Norman Cohn’s words, it served as the Nazis’ “warrant for genocide”.
another famous one is the ‘fact’ that AIDS was invented in an American Germ Warfare lab. Reverend Wright, got that from someplace, and he is using that propaganda to foment race hatred. this turned out to be an operatino by the russians to obfuscate an escape of anthrax from their labs that killed lab workers and civilians.
read about lattimore and McCArthy… after all, lattimore coined the phrase “McCarthism” in his book… though he was found out later to be confirmed a spy,a nd so mccarthy was vindicated (a lot). however, the propaganda of mccarthyism is one of the more successful active measures things.
you can track back fascism as rightist to Stalin and prior to WWII….
one of my favorite propaganda coverups is convincing the useful idiots that they are fighting against totalitarianism, while they battle a false right that doesnt exist. the right doesnt exist since that was originally monarchy. in the US, the right has always been (till recently) about minimum state, free market, low control, few laws, low taxes, etc. recognizing the evil of the state is a necessary evil, it should be minimal so that it doesnt grow.
the left is all about feudalism, repalcing the current rule with their rule, and keeping it thorugh the application of totalitarian ideals by exploiting the good natuer in the average man.
you can study how feminism went from terrorist organizations (rote zora, weather underground, and more), who planted bombs, to the crypto communist 5th column.
or how planned parenthood came from the negro project, and still foments its ideals under a cloak of social good. they still are pushing eugenics.
in fact, the whole twenteith century has been an exercize is replaceing the seven virtues with the seven sins, then replacing them with the virtues through totalitarianism as if its their idea.
you will also find that the tin hatters (the famous ones) are also active measures people. they get valid information, but seldom about anyone else than the US. one only has to realize that others are leaking to them, and they are excited they have something, but anything they discuss or touch, ends up off limits to saner discussion!!! so they serve as a foil to get us to not pay attention to things that there is no way to get us to do so othewise.
Dig deeper, and you will find out that you have been living in a semi constructed dream world, where the facts have been conviently let to fade into the background noise.
for isntance… how much talk is there as to russian active measures in the middle east? whose weapons, whose explosives, whose tactical advice, etc?
Paraphrasing from Christopher Andrew’s and Visili Mitrokhin’s book The Sword And The Shield, Service A was the name given to the disinformation and covert action group, which fell under the jurisdiction of the FCD (First Chief Directorate; foreign intelligence) of the USSR state Security Committee aka the KGB (Комитет гоÑударÑтвенной безопаÑноÑти СССР(КГБ). One of their main goals was to spread disinformation and propaganda around the world to exploit weak spots of the main adversary, a term of little endearment for the USA.
The book describes service A as basically half competent with the other half composed of rejects from other areas of the KGB. Being assigned to service A was not deemed highly by everyone due to the lack of foreign postings. Those who specialized in propaganda were responsible for quite a few successes, while the other half “relied on crude conspiracy theories about the capitalist and Zionist plotters who supposedly operated a secret ‘command center’ in the United States.” Such conspiracy theories were the result of the KGB, writ large, not heeding the famous Chinese warrior Sun Tzu’s advice: “Know your enemy”… for if “you know your enemy and know yourself you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.” But, Sun Tzu also cautioned, “If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.”
Such propaganda, much of it made up by the service, were part of “active measure” campaigns. These measures are revealing, albeit not well-known as to the source, subjects of posts to come, which I hope shed light on some modern urban legends.
what you will also find is that the main stream media, in their effort to erase the negatives of socialism, dont cover facts that are salient!!!!!
compare this
this from PRAVDA:
The USA is pursuing absolutely different goals, and the creation of the Great Georgia is surely not on its list. The Republicans organized the provocation to portray Russia as a monster on the globe on the threshold of the November elections. This plays into the hands of John McCain, who openly says that “Russia’s imperial ambition” needs to be curbed.
huffington post:
In classic “Wag The Dog” scenario there is a neat little war brewing between American and Russian proxies, and real Russian troops, in the Caucacus Mountains on the Russian border.
It couldn’t come at a better time for the Republicans.
McCain gets to act and talk tough against the Russians, while Obama is on vacation in Hawaii, issuing “can’t we all get along statements.”
It perfectly augments Republican campaign points: Obama is not ready. He is not tough, experienced enough to deal with a dangerous world.
McCain knows he can’t win the election on Iraq or Iran or the economy. Republicans need a real boogeyman – the Russian bear – armed with nuclear weapons – to really scare the bejesus out of the American voters.
in fact, you can watch as news goes from a thing like a small article in pravda enlish, to the top leftist writers in the west… then picked up by the many op ed nothings… and then by the bloggers…
its how mass movment works… you motivate everyone to the cause.
you could track down the roots of many of the palin things… and watch how they did similar.
FAS will let you know that things are even hotter today than during the cold war!!!!! with open borders and such, literally thousands of people are sent out.
here is some stuff to get you started…
you will be amazed…but its factual.
even more interesting is that if you study, you will find even more!!!! the list mentions the left blowing up african americans… but if you study, they did that in the south, which is why the highlander school had to be closed (it had already taught rosa parks, martin luthor king, pete seeger).
study deeper… the tuskeegee event that is always trumped out against the US, turns out was funded by a communist, who also funded highlander. in other words, tuskeegee was privatelyf unded by communists.
but no one talks of these things even though there are verifialbe records now (with photos). just as they dont talk as to how hitler applied propaganda to the islamics thorugh their grand mufti, and created the political islam of today…
here is the exerpt from mitrokhen
“Propaganda abroad was partly conducted by Soviet intelligence agencies. GRU alone spent more than $1 billion for propaganda and peace movements against the Vietnam War, which was a “hugely successful campaign and well worth the cost”, according to GRU defector Stanislav Lunev [9].
He claimed that “the GRU and the KGB helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad”. [9]
According to Oleg Kalugin, “the Soviet intelligence was really unparalleled. … The KGB programs — which would run all sorts of congresses, peace congresses, youth congresses, festivals, women’s movements, trade union movements, campaigns against U.S. missiles in Europe, campaigns against neutron weapons, allegations that AIDS was invented by the CIA … all sorts of forgeries and faked material — [were] targeted at politicians, the academic community, at the public at
large.” [10]
Propaganda against the United States included the following actions [11]:
Promotion of false John F. Kennedy assassination theories, using writer Mark Lane.
Discreditation of the CIA, using historian Philip Agee (codenamed PONT).
Spreading rumors that FBI director J. Edgar Hoover was a homosexual.
Attempts to discredit Martin Luther King, Jr. by placing publications portraying him as an “Uncle Tom” who was secretly receiving government subsidies.
Stirring up racial tensions in the United States by mailing bogus letters from the Ku Klux Klan, placing an explosive package in “the Negro section of New York” (operation PANDORA), and spreading conspiracy theories that Martin Luther King, Jr.’s assassination had been planned by the US government.
Fabrication of the story that AIDS virus was manufactured by US
scientists at Fort Detrick; the story was spread by Russian-born biologist Jakob Segal Senior SVR officer Sergei Tretyakov made the claim to writer Pete Earley that the KGB “created the myth of nuclear winter” as disinformation (see Sergei Tretyakov for details), although Earley said that the accuracy of this claim “is impossible to
discern”,[12] and subsequent studies using more advanced climate models have continued to support the hypothesis (see nuclear winter). “
tretyakov mentioned above points out the nuclear winter hoax. in other words, look at the nuclear events in history, and judge whether survival is practical. less than 20 years hiroshima and nagasaki were rebuilt… and chernoble, was a great experiment, no?
the point was to create the idea that nuclear winter would happen, and so the US people would never push back if it went to shove.
one of the reasons for russia not developing computer driven warfare is that they and the chinese think this is a weak spot… emp pulse, and satellite destruction would shut down US forces. meanwhile, look at the military equipment in georgia, they had their heat shields on…
heck… want to see a GREAT example of how far propaganda can go?
well, lets see. the peace people are running around carrying peace signs. to the ‘other side’ they are the ones destroying the cultuer and making it vulnerable… they are the seeds of their own deaths….
well then take a look at this poster
constitutionalistnc.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/nazi2a.gif
its a nazi anti smoking poster (they were the firsts)… the big rune thing in the middle is a life rune and was extensively used by the nazis.
but invert it, meaning death of man, and put a circle around it.. you get a peace sign…
look up the “libertarian green party” and see who they are… turns out all those leftists on the green side who are yelling fascist, actually dont know what they support.
symbolism games are really big on the left… they are an emotional lot and so they manipulate the symbols adn things we use.
Obama Symbol
bp3.blogger.com/_WoIE9xf9-Jo/SGGP6NeUoKI/AAAAAAAAAmI/Fgml5MnxRc4/s1600-h/Obama+symbol.jpg
and here is the logo for the SCO, an organization of communist russia, communist china, and some satellites
eldib.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/sco_logo.jpg
KGB-manufactured lies are legendary and die hard. Take, for instance, one of the
most notorious conspiracy theories regarding the Kennedy assassination. Joachim
Joesten’s book Oswald: Assassin or Fall-Guy, published in 1964, claimed that Kennedy’s
death was the result of a right-wing conspiracy involving the CIA–a myth famously
endorsed by Oliver Stone’s movie JFK. Today, we know that Joesten’s publisher was a
KGB front and the author a paid Soviet agent. Or look at the equally enduring rumor that
the Pentagon developed the AIDS virus as a biological weapon at Fort Detrick,
Maryland. First published on Independence Day in 1984, the tale had been planted by the
KGB in an Indian newspaper and spread around the globe.
These and other Soviet “active measures” aimed to discredit the United States and
“conquer world public opinion,” says retired KGB Major General Oleg Kalugin, formerly
deputy chief of the KGB residency in Washington, DC. The KGB even set up a special
department, Service A (“A” stood for active measures) for this purpose. But while the
Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, active measures remain part of Moscow’s foreign and
domestic policy toolbox. If anything, Russia’s contemporary active measures program is
more aggressive than the campaign run by the old KGB. In the Soviet Union, each
measure had to be approved by the all-powerful Politburo, but intelligence oversight in
today’s Russia is spotty at best, and the domestic security service, or FSB, operates
“absolutely independently and totally unchecked,” according to Alexander Litvinenko, a
former FSB officer who defected to Great Britain in 2000. Kalugin agrees: “In terms of
viciousness, it got even worse” after the Cold War. The “terrorist” campaign of 1999 is a
case in point.
the recent
controversy over cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad may well have been
choreographed by the SVR, Russia’s foreign intelligence service. The evidence is
circumstantial but compelling. For one, Kalugin says, the KGB has a history of using
Danish journalists to plant disinformation in the Western press. And Flemming Rose, the
Jyllands Posten cultural editor who commissioned the cartoons in 2005, happened to
serve for several years as a correspondent in Moscow where, Kalugin observes, he
published a spate of obviously government-sponsored, anti-Chechen articles. According
to Litvinenko and journalist Adlan Beno, Rose also happens to be married to the daughter
of an ex-KGB officer. This does not per se make Rose a Russian agent, of course, but
Russian intelligence may well have availed itself of this “in-house” connection to
influence the Danish journalist. “This guy may have been used,” Kalugin says.
As the cartoon controversy spread across the globe, scores of brand new Danish
flags turned up mysteriously all over the Middle East just in time to be set ablaze by
enraged demonstrators at internationally televised protests. Predictably, Muslim anger
quickly turned toward the West at large. “Some obscure Danish newspaper [prints these
cartoons], and all the sudden across the Western world, everybody knows what’s it all
about. Who organized it? Who ignited the process?” asks Kalugin, identifying a top
suspect himself: The SVR. It wouldn’t have been the first active measure of this kind.
When a Jewish militant went on a rampage at Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem in 1981, the
KGB planned to stage an anti-American Muslim rally in New Delhi, says Kalugin. At
5,000 rupees, the proposed operation was ridiculously cheap
Kalugin is not alone in suspecting Moscow’s hand behind the recent cartoon
controversy. Says Peter Earnest, a former senior CIA clandestine service officer who
served in the Middle East: “As a way of fueling anti-western feelings among Muslims,
publishing of cartoons ridiculing the Prophet Mohammad in an obscure Danish journal
was a no-brainer, if it was done deliberately, particularly if you are prepared to use
resources elsewhere to keep the controversy alive and pulsating.” And what’s in it for
Moscow? The Kremlin seeks to compromise and undermine the United States and “make
Russia look [like] an alternative” international partner to Middle Eastern nations, says
Kalugin. Emphasizing the continuity between Soviet and Russian active measures, he
concludes: “It’s a tradition, it’s not something new. That’s important to see the past
projected onto the present–and the future.”
the fate of useful idiots…
with a grain of salt of course – cause everything is a mix of truth and other things… some sources are better than others…
In 1984 G. Edward Griffin released a documentary titled Soviet subversion of the free press, a conversation with Yuri Bezmenov and through the magic of YouTube, snippets of that documentary are available on the web today. Now, as far as I can tell, G. Edward Griffin is a little bit odd. He’s championed some questionable cancer cures and written books about monetary conspiracies and all sorts of odd stuff (there’s a page about him here: G. Edward Griffin Totally Explained, but really, it doesn’t do all that much explaining). Still, you can’t deny the video and he lets Bezmenov rant in his own words. Here’s the snippet we’re interested in today:
Yuri Bezmenov
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32cxf_yuri-bezmenov
he goes over the LOOK magazins propaganda piece. a GREAT example of active measures from the soviet union to the US.
Bezmenov says, “A group of twelve people arrived in the USSR from the United States to cover the 50th anniversary of the October Socialist Revolution in my country. From the first page to the last page it was a package of lies. Propaganda clichés which were presented to American readers as opinions and deductions of American journalists. Nothing could be farther from the truth. These were not opinions, these were not opinions at all — they were the clichés which the Soviet propaganda wants American public to think that they think.”
Also, don’t miss Bezmenov when he talks about demoralization and about Marxists, Useful Idiots. Heck just search YouTube for “Bezmenov”, you’ll get several videos and all make the most amazing, unlikely claims. On the other hand, I can’t prove any of the claims are wrong.
When I saw this video, I was a little bit skeptical. It’s pretty fantastic to imagine that a magazine, read and trusted by millions of Americans (published in Des Moines, Iowa, for goodness’ sake), could be completely fooled into acting as a propaganda mouthpiece for the USSR right at the height of the cold war. Armed with another vital tool of the information age —eBay— I set out to find this issue of Look and see it for myself. By amazing luck, there it was, the October 3, 1967 issue of Look, for sale cheap. Once it arrived I busily set out to see if Bezmenov was talking through his hat or bragging.
I won’t try to make this suspenseful; that would be a cheap trick to keep you reading. Bezmenov was bragging (mostly). Clearly, those folks at Look fell for Soviet propaganda in a big way. I don’t think they meant to, they just couldn’t help themselves. Amazingly, their own articles have plenty of facts that make their own conclusions questionable. Let’s take it a step at a time.
Look magazine 40 years after the revolution that changed the world, russia today
http://roborant.info/images/lookcover.jpg
The issue is titled, 50 Years After The Revolution That Changed The World and this whole issue of Look is devoted to the Soviet Union. There are about fifteen articles, from a general overview of the USSR in 1967, to a look at Soviet education, to a tour of a Soviet city, to fluff like a photo spread of Russian babes in furs and a discussion of Russian caviar. Sprinkled in it are skeptical sentences, a few “buts” and the odd raised eyebrow. There’s no questioning, however, that the whole issue is relentlessly upbeat about what a great up-and-coming place the Soviet Union was. Interestingly, while there are lots of references to “the revolution that changed things forever” (using almost the exact same words each time), there is no actual history of the revolution in this issue. This seems strange, until you think about how you might go about putting the 1917 Revolution in a rosy light. It’s not that the revolution didn’t have noble aims, it’s just that the actual events were messy and unpleasant —the last thing they wanted to put in this issue.
Look had a feature called “Behind the Scenes” that ran near the front of each issue. In this episode they chose to lead off this feature this way:
When American journalist Lincoln Steffens returned from a mission to Russia in 1919, two years after the revolution that shook the world, he said, “I have been over into the future, and it works.” Now, a helf-century after the fall of the Romanovs and the triumph of Lenin, Look has gone over to the Soviet Union to see how well things are really working out there.
This is pretty telling, when you consider that Steffens himself had lost his enthusiasm for communism by the time he wrote his memoirs in 1931. That quote is now widely regarded as a great example of someone who drank a little too much of the Soviet Kool-Aid.
The first little article is about learning the Russian language from a quick immersion course from Berlitz. It’s interesting, but not about the Soviet Union at all, so we’ll skip it. Next, we come to the main article, “The Soviet Union After Fifty Years”. Here’s the lede:
It works. Ponderously, fitfully, unevenly. But 50 years after the revolution that changed the world forever, the system it fostered wheezes with life. We strain to hear the sounds of discord and seize on every setback; but it’s time to ponder some disconcerting realities. Grumps there are, and struggles— bitter struggles fought by angry, frustrated men. Yet, implausible as it seems to us, most Soviet citizens think they have a good thing going for them. They feel safe. They don’t worry about hunger or loneliness or calamity. Raised in a controlled environment, they are without objective measure, but by their own meager reckoning of what constitutes freedom, most of them now feel free. Political terror has shriveled. The indices by which men everywhere gauge progress are rising. To the average Soviet citizen, no conceivable space spectacular planned for the jubilee year could surpass the importance of what is happening on earth. Barring the unexpected, 1967 will be the greatest year ever for Soviet industry and a fat one for agriculture, long the Communist jinx. … If an honest democratic election where held in the Soviet today —involving legitimate alternatives, sufficient time and opportunity for their exposure and the assurance that those elected would serve— the Communist party would win. This is not speculation. It is a conclusion based on on-the-spot observation and interviews by ten Look editors and photographers whose journeys through the Soviet Union for this issue totaled more than a year.
Of course, we now know that it never really “worked” and it would collapse completely a bit more than twenty years after this issue came out (and the word “gulag” doesn’t show up anywhere in there, does it?). Funny that they don’t mention that, while 1967 might have been a “fat” year for agriculture, the Soviet Union was still a net food importer, especially of grain. Imports of US grain would actually reach their peak in the early 1980’s, fifteen years after this upbeat appraisal of Soviet agriculture. Solzhenitsyn was still under quasi-arrest (and his work suppressed), so it’s hard to see how “political terror” had “shriveled”. Despite the hints of some “space spectacular” involving cosmonauts (the only area denied Look reporters, so they said), there were no big Soviet successes that year, except the docking of two unmanned spacecraft: Cosmos 186 and 188. Of course, we now know that the Russian people bitterly hated their government (not their country, their government). We also know how the Ukrainians and Estonians feel today (and how quickly they voted themselves out of the Soviet Union when they had the chance), and they were part of the Soviet Union when the article was written. But it was true that they weren’t likely “lonely”: hard to be lonely when you share an apartment with two other families.
The last sentence is the real kicker. It’s not “speculation”, it’s a “conclusion”! These people had to be “trying to please their hosts” as Bezmenov puts it, there’s no other way to figure it. Robert Heinlein went to the Soviet Union in 1960, for example, and wrote a series of articles about how they were shown only what the Soviets wanted them to see and blocked from conversation or contact with regular Soviet citizens. Everyone they talked with, they came to learn, was a “minder” of some sort, making sure they were fed the Party line. If Heinlein, a science fiction writer on vacation, could see through the song and dance, why couldn’t the Look editors? They must have been, as Bezmenov claims, thoroughly vetted and selected for the job. They already had their articles written in their heads before they ever set foot in the Soviet Union. They saw what they intended to see.
The next article is about tension between the Soviets and China. The article is long and detailed and generally pro-Soviet. They conclude, “In all likelihood, the Chinese Communist initiatives in raising territorial issues are a part of a general political-warfare campaign against the Soviet Union.” And also, “At the very least, the Chinese and Russians [sic] will continue to face each other across their long boundary with anxious watchfulness.” In other words, “nothing to see here, just the Chinese making a lot of noise, move along.”
The next article starts with a Norman Rockwell painting —literally. The picture shows rows of well-dressed, orderly, healthy school children staring intently towards the front of the class where we see a bust of Lenin (not Stalin). Most of them wear the red scarves of the Young Pioneers, the party apparatus for the youth. Rockwell injects his usual touch of humor by having one kid looking out the window, but my guess is that there wasn’t a single kid who dared to look out the window when American journalists were present. The gist of the article is that in old-style Soviet classrooms, very, very little individualism was allowed. Individuals were taught to give themselves up to the group; the group is everything. In new-style Soviet classrooms, they’ve learned to allow for individualism and independent study. How they arrived at these conclusions is open to question. Not a single Soviet official is quoted in the article. In fact the article quotes no authority of any sort. My guess is that the “backgrounders” Bezmenov spoke of came into play. The journalists were fed the Party cliche and they went for it like a trout hitting a fly.
The next article is about Jazz artist Charles Lloyd and how he was almost denied the right to play at a Soviet jazz festival in Tallinn. Evidently the crowd prevailed when the Ministry of Culture tried to keep him offstage because of “American bombing in Vietnam”. Lloyd tried to make it into a problem of race, but it’s not clear from the article what was really happening behind the scenes. This article seems pretty factual and without bias one way or the other.
Moving along, we come to an article called “From Stalin to Kosygin: The Myths and the Realities”, by W. Averell Harriman, who had been the American ambassador to the Soviet Union. The article is a long and dry account of his relations with various Soviet leaders over the years. The article seems fairly positive about the Soviets, but I think Harriman just told his own story fairly straight.
Next is a bit of fluff called “Friendship is Climbing a Soviet Mountain”. Look journalist Chris Wren climbs Mt Gumachi and lives to tell about it. All you need to know is the bit at the end: “I think maybe I’ve learned something. It’s comfortable to dismiss everything in a foreign land as different. But when we climb a mountain, or share something less spectacular, we stumble upon the disturbing truth that we are so much alike.” Not what I would call first-rate writing, even for Look magazine in 1969 (more like a student blog entry from 2003).
Continuing on, we have an article based on polls called “We Don’t Know Much About Each Other”. The Soviet poll was supposedly conducted by the Novosti Press Agency, which was the official Soviet press agency (and the agency who set up the Look visit in the first place). There’s no reason to think they even ran a poll at all. I suspect they just set up a list of what they wanted us to think and let it go at that, who was going to check on them? For example, their survey claimed that forty percent of Soviet students had read more than 20 US books, by authors like Hemingway, Salinger, Faulkner, Steinbeck and Updike. Given what we now know about Soviet censorship, this seems extremely unlikely. We’ll never know either way, so we just have to move on, there wasn’t anything particularly interesting in the article anyway.
“Three Weeks in a Russian Town” is up next. It’s interesting that they use the term “Russian” all over the place, when they should be saying “Soviet” to everything except things specifically tied to Russian ethnicity. I don’t know if this was a subtle propaganda (“Russia” sounds so much less dangerous than “Soviet”) or just poor writing. The town they chose to visit was Bratsk (pictures and description here). Bratsk was obviously the choice of the Soviet propaganda machine. It was a new city, built in the 1950’s to house workers building the Bratsk dam and hydroelectric plant (the largest in the world at that time). The workers lived in newly built apartment buildings and earned the highest wages around. It was certainly the showpiece of Soviet cities at this time. Yet this article, more than any other in the magazine, refutes most of the “It works” premise. The town was ugly, living quarters were cramped and the inhabitants lived a very meager lifestyle compared to the US or Europe.
All through the article, we see how it doesn’t “work”. Wages were far lower than US or European standards. Living spaces were microscopic: 75 square feet per person – about the size of a US bathroom at the time (they must have had communal bathrooms). The reporters stayed in a hotel that had no hot water during their stay —until it mysteriously came on for the last morning of their trip. There are discrepancies about income in the story: a couple supposedly living on $4,000 per year can’t save up to buy a $5,500 automobile in a few years (and the Soviets didn’t allow consumer credit, everything was cash and carry). Clearly the automobile was set dressing for their visit. While the reporters do mention the stark ugliness of the city, they don’t harp on it. Apparently, however, it was really, really ugly — so ugly that they’re still talking about prettying it up fifty years later. If you take a look at a section of modern-day Bratsk in Google Maps, you can see that many buildings are still connected by dirt paths rather than streets or sidewalks (here is another block of dirt-connected flats — for comparison and here is a similar view of some fairly dilapidated student housing at the University of Texas: note the sidewalks and parking lots and the attempt to make the buildings look different from each other). The reporters don’t seem to have mingled freely with the citizens, instead they were toured around to selected households and visited the same people multiple times during their visit.
In a little sidebar article, we have a serious look into the “Jewish Question” and the USSR. The article is titled “Fred Yusfin: The Jew who had never heard of Yom Kippur”; there is no writing credit on the article. Basically, the article says, “Jews aren’t persecuted in the Soviet Union — hell, they aren’t even very Jewish anyway.” Here’s a quote from a non-observant Jew named Fred Yusfin who thinks things are fine for Jews in the USSR:
I don’t understand Soviet Jews who would like to emigrate to Israel, but if they want it, I think we should let them. Yes, I know of the reputation abroad of the Soviet Union and the Jewish question. I think this reputation is entirely incorrect. I don’t believe the charge that Jews are kept from responsible jobs.
…
What would happen to me if I wanted to practice as a Jew? I can’t imagine myself in such a position. Temples? Rabbis? Matzos? Prayer books? I believe that the introduction of these facilities is artificial. New values are being accepted by all the modern Jews.
My first thing was to wonder how this man, who has never even heard of Yom Kippur, would know about “the reputation abroad of the Soviet Union and the Jewish question”. Since the Soviet Union was famous for keeping foreign opinions from its citizens, how would such a delicate morsel of information about international opinion slip through to someone entirely uninterested in the question? This whole little article is first class hogwash.
Next up is a bit of fluff about “Russian Furs”. It’s an excuse to dress up some hot Russian babes in furs and take their pictures. We’ll just move on. Next is yet another waste of time, a biting, hard-news story about the unbelievable quality of “Russian Caviar”.
On to page 105 and an article called “KGB”. Now we’re getting to nitty gritty, now we’re going to see some hard hitting, right? Well, kinda. We start with the story of KGB operative Bogdan Stashinsky (short article here) and his murder of a Ukrainian newspaper editor in 1957 using cool spy technology. This was, of course, old news at the time. Next we see this:
Since then, Big Brother’s methods have mellowed a bit. There are fewer incidents of terror abroad. At home, the knock on the front door at midnight is gone, and fear is fading from people’s lives. Despite that, the KGB continues, the most extensive authoritarian police force in the world.
The article goes on to say both how good they are, but also how silly they are for buying information they could get for free. “They could back a truck up to the Government Printing Office and get what they want, in many cases, but they seem to skulk around corners for it” says “one American”.
Got that? Just some big, lovable nuts those KGB men. Not dangerous at all. They’re just a “police force”, not an intelligence agency. Even in the Soviet Union no one is afraid of them anymore. The piece runs on for a page and, after a story about eating some evidence, concludes, “KGB men need strong stomachs.” Ha, ha, get it?
“Around the Arts in the Soviet Union” is the title of our next article. It’s a survey of statements from various artists. It’s a veritable Soviet Love Fest. All of the statements are either the usual blather of artists or praise of the Soviet system and its cultivation of the arts. Except one. There is a letter from Alexander Solzhenitsyn “addressed to, but not read at” the Congress of Soviet writers. Solzhenitsyn was in big trouble at the time (for One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich and The First Circle which had been seized in 1965), but I suppose that this material was provided by the Soviet hosts who didn’t mind its inclusion, since no one in the Soviet Union was ever going to have access to Look. The article is made up entirely of published papers (except for Solzhenitsyn’s critical one which was not published), so everyone is being good, lest they wind up like Solzhenitsyn.
Two skippable articles come next. One is about the manager of a great Soviet nuclear reactor and the other is about a great, life-saving Soviet doctor. Thankfully, our next article is our last. It’s called “Along a Russian Road”, and it’s the story of a journalists 2,035 mile automobile trip through the Soviet Union. The article wants the reader to believe that, in 1967, a journalist could just rent a car and hit the open road in the Soviet Union. There is no mention of any “minders” or “translators” provided by the government: “Now, the Soviet Union beckons with a selection of highways and will even rent you the car.” They could have rented a car with a driver, but they chose not to. I’m sorry, I call bullshit on this. There’s no way this happened. If this would have been possible, half the cars in Russia would have been rented by American CIA “journalists” who would have fanned out all over the country. My guess is that these guys, writer Christopher Wren and photographer Douglas Jones, were very carefully toured along an approved route and shown just what the Soviets wanted them to see. All it takes to make what really happened into what this article said happened, is for the journalists to just not mention their “tour guides”.
Well, that’s it. Was this whole issue of Look “a package of lies”, as Bezmenov said? Well, yes and no. I doubt there were many knowingly told, outright lies in the whole issue. The lie is in those things carefully not said and those things exaggerated a little or put in an especially good light or glossed over. Questions not asked (Vietnam isn’t even mentioned in an article about the KGB — would any competent journalist not mention Vietnam in an article about the CIA at the time?). So no, it wasn’t a package of lies. It was something much more subtle and much more worth bragging about.
Anyone can successfully lie to you, but you’ll eventually get the facts and quit trusting them. Much greater skill goes into telling you most of the truth, while shading and coloring the facts to make them seem to support a message that they don’t. The essence of this article is “these people are no danger to the United States.” That was emphatically not true at the time. Hell this was less than five years after the Cuban Missile crisis and during the midst of what we now know was a massive buildup in Soviet military capacity (detailed in Robert M Gates’ excellent book From The Shadows —my review here). This was a propaganda coup of enormous value. This, along with a thousand other coups like it, lead directly to all of those protests in Europe in the 1980’s over Reagan’s missiles. By then, “everyone knew” that they Soviet Union was run by a bunch of misunderstood men who drank too much vodka but didn’t really mean anyone any harm (look at how Gorbachev was feted in US media). This was one successful maneuver in a long war of such maneuvers.
We’re lucky that communism and centrally-planned economies are such a bad idea. If the Soviet Union hadn’t been beaten by economics, it certainly wouldn’t have been beaten at espionage or force of arms. Bezmenov deserves his bragging rights.
Update: It’s also interesting to note that we are just now discovering (along with the Russian citizens themselves) the amazing degree to which the whole idea of the Soviet Union as a “superpower” was a joke. Even at its height, true Soviet GDP was about a tenth of the United States GDP. The US could overwhelm them by spending 5% of GDP on its military. Only by careful lies, deceptions and playing off of US military planners perfectly willing to overestimate their strength were they ever able to play the “superpower” card.
Update II: The movie Man on a String went by this weekend on TCM. It stars Ernest Borgnine as a Russian-born Hollywood producer who is wooed by a Communist agent into spying for them (in return for getting his father out of Russia), caught by the US and turned into a counter spy against the Soviets. The movie is based on the real-life story of Borris Morros, who was caught spying for Russia and turned into a double agent. If you’ve listened to Bezmenov, the story of the movie makes lots of sense. Borris Morros was just the sort of person that Bezmenov claims they were instructed to co-opt: influential, but lightweight. Useful Idiots, in Bezmenov’s parlance. People who would be slowly induced to do larger and larger things against their country until there was no turning back. I found a copy of Morros’ book, My Ten Years as a Counter Spy on ABEBooks and ordered it. If any of it bears mention here, I’ll update again.
Update III: The book came in and it was an interesting read. Parts of it play into this essay about historical revision of the Cold War. Morros was recruited in the oldest, simplest way: help us or we kill the family you have left in Russia. His story mostly fits the Bezmenov mold, but it’s hard to say how many others there were like him. I’ve found a couple of others and they’re mentioned in the essay at the link. roborant.info/main.do?entry=1344
Artfldgr: your well detailed propaganda makers and how the truth sank in background noises, but you forget very recent propaganda we living today which GWB one with help of Blair of course both run to war of chose.
You also forgot the propaganda in Latin American with Dr, Death H. Kissinger and his Commander of Drilled Militia J. Negroponte.
El Salvador experience similar to Iraq
Or may be this withBoys in the Bubble made you believe they spading there democracy and freedom to 25 million in far land call Iraq.
Look to Ymarsakar comment I doubted knew what Iraq and Iraqi but he knew one world “tribal” like what those liars from Ahmad Chalabi and Al-Hakim told you that those “Shiite Tribal” will through follower welcoming US marines.
You should know for the last 50 years your country running very effective propaganda well established internally thorough your media and internationally also
Truth…
i have been “spoken to” more than once for too long posts… shall i cover 40 years of secret history?
no, a person wanted to know about propaganda, and if you want to learn, you dont start by trying to sort out todays facts… (and then wait 20 years to see if facts pan out), you read about prevous incidents and the facts…
and you read about what we thought then, what happened, where did it go, who did it, etc.
but you forget very recent propaganda we living today which GWB one with help of Blair of course both run to war of chose
i am not sure what your saying here becuase of the typos.
however, the whole argument for the war on BOTH sides was for consumption. you only have to look at a map and understand 40 years of history to see that Bush was shutting russias destabilizatio engine down. PERIOD.
turkey, iraq, iran, afghanistan, pakistan/india, end up making a one country wide line in the sand the russians cant cross and supply weapons.
ALL the talking points are trash… so if your goint to say something like bush lied peopel died, or somethign like that… remember, that it doesnt really matter. (because those saying those things would never admit that there is no argument they would accept! even imminent danger).
BE VERY CAREFUL trying to figure things out before you hve read the histories… why? because your going to be slanted unfairly the wrong way.
which leads me to your next paragraph…
You also forgot the propaganda in Latin American with Dr, Death H. Kissinger and his Commander of Drilled Militia J. Negroponte.
Kissenger has been known to work for the soviets for years. His known name is Bor.
so as i said… be VERY careful when you start spouting things, and think you have somethnig ni your sites. Harry dexter white was high in the whitehouse, but he was wroking for russia. so some of the ‘facts’ you think you know, may be just a person pushnig their odd position.
“Kissinger has stated, ‘Ending the war (in Vietnam), [which by the way was a United Nations War, ed] honorably is essential for the peace of the world. Any other solution may unloose forces that would complicate prospects of international order.’ And this is what Kissinger and his intellectual colleagues want: international order, which would consist of World Government in a World of Disarmament. Kissinger recommended a start toward this in “The Troubled Partnership” in 1965 in which he found a need for improved consultation among the allies. He advocated a ‘United Europe with federal supranational institutions as the precondition for an Atlantic partnership,’ or regional government. (p 21)
================================
“Professor Henry Paolucci, of St. John’s University, wrote a study about Kissinger which appeared in the Congressional Record of August 4, 1971, a portion of which states: ‘Henry Kissinger, too, expressed as recently as 1965 the conviction that the time was at hand for a surrender of nationhood because ‘institutions based on present concepts of national sovereignty are not enough.’ The ultimate goal of a supranationalist world community, he wrote, ‘will not come quickly; many intermediate stages must be traversed before it can be reached. It is not too early, however, to prepare ourselves for this step beyond the nation-state.'” (p 21)
================================
“The shape of the New World Government was foretold in Commentary, the official magazine of the American Jewish Committee in New York, which stated in 1958: ‘The international government of the United Nations, stripped of its legal trimming, then is really the international government of the United States and the Soviet Union acting in unison.’ (p 5)
“An anti-Communist who infiltrated Polish Communist Intelligence and rose to the equivalent rank of general has now named Henry Kissinger as a Soviet agent, recruited into a special group known as ODRA while he was a sergeant in the U.S. Armed Forces in Germany during World War II. The information obtained from this general was found to be accurate in all cases where it was checked out. He was responsible for uncovering a long list of KGB (Soviet intelligence) and GRU (Soviet Military Intelligence) agents and officers. Among these were Soviet colonel Koilon Molody, alias Gordon Lonsdale, and his four agents, Henry Houghton, Ethel Gee, and Peter and Helen Kroger, alias Cohen, operating in Great Britain. Through Houghton was developed the case of KGB agent John Vassal of British Naval Intelligence official connected with MI-6 in London. Another case was that of George Blake, a very high British Intelligence official connected with MI-6 in London. (p 2-3)
“Firmly entrenched KGB and GRU networks in many parts of the Free World were not only uncovered by this informant but the individuals were arrested, tried and convicted. In the United States, however no action was taken on his information.
(p 3)
“It was in 1961 and 1962 that our source informed the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) about Kissinger who at that time appeared to be an unimportant Harvard professor. In 1973 he again brought the matter to the attention of the British Security Service and American Intelligence since Kissinger was no longer “unimportant,” having become President Nixon’s National Security Adviser. Since the controlled press and communications media have given no publicity to the charges concerning Kissinger, only those persons with access to small independent publications have learned that Kissinger has been named as a Soviet agent. Many persons, however, have come to the conclusion based solely on his activities. (p 4)
“It was while Kissinger was serving with the U.S. Armed Forces in Germany during World War II that he became a member of a secret Soviet network, one of a series of intelligence and counterintelligence groups, some of which were reorganized at the end of World War II and continue in place to this day. This information had been furnished to U.S. and British intelligence services in 1961 and 1962, and 1973, only to see it completely ignored. The Review of the News of March 20, 1974 first published the story which was also recounted in the Confidential Intelligence Report of The Herald of Freedom in April, 1974. The source was Col. Michael Goleniewski whose real name is Aleksei Nicholaevich Romanoff. The true identify of Aleksei as the heir to the All-Russian Imperial Throne is known to the governments of the United States, Great Britain, and other countries. On June 11, 1971, the New York Daily Mirror announced the exclusive publication of “Reminiscenses and Observations” by H.I.H. Aleksei Nicholaevich Romanoff, the heir to All-Russian Imperial Throne, Tsarevich and Grand Duke of Russia, and head of Russian Imperial House. In introducing him as a columnist, the Daily Mirror stated: “Herman E. Kimsey, former Chief of Research & Analysis of the Headquarters of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, in an affidavit signed June 3, 1965, said ‘I m convinced, and I continue to be convinced, that the person referred to as Col. Goleniewski is in fact the Tsarevich and Grand Duke Aleksei Nicholaevich Romanoff of Russia, and son of Emperor Nicholai II of Russia.’ (p 74-75)
“The story of ODRA and Henry Kissinger’s connection with it was disclosed by Col. Goleniewski as follows: ‘ODRA’s principal purpose was the infiltration and penetration of military intelligence services in the West. … In 1954 an important courier, a woman of Greek-Russian nationality, had been murdered under mysterious circumstances and important material, together with approximately $80,000 of intelligence funds, disappeared.'” (p 77-78)
To make a long story short, “Col. Goleniewski had access to 1500 pages of documents related to this mysterious murder, which included a list of the names and code names and short data on the principal agents of ODRA. (p 79)
“Under the code name of “Bor” and described as an agent of ODRA was U.S. Sergeant (and later Captain) Kissinger, counterintelligence interrogator of the U.S. Army and instructor at the Military Intelligence School in Oberammergau. (p 80)
“The information concerning Henry Kissinger could be verified and confirmed by independent sources as there was no doubt he was in touch with Communist intelligence during his military service in Germany. Since his phenomenal rise to power in the United States government, Kissinger has been accompanied during his visits behind the Iron Curtain by staff officers of intelligence or counterintelligence of the KGB, which raises the question as to whether he is still in the service of the KGB. (p 81)
“The accuracy of information supplied by Aleksei (Col. Goleniewski) was attested to during the Senate Internal Security hearings entitled “State Department Security.” The committee’s chief counsel questioned a witness (John Norpel, Jr.) who had been with the FBI and State Department Security. He was asked, ‘Do you know of any information ever furnished to the U.S. Government by Goleniewski which turned out to be untrue or inaccurate?’ The witness answered, ‘I do not. No sir,’ and also testified that the considerable information supplied by Col. Goleniewski had been checked out and proved to be true in every case.” (p 82)
there is always a lot more… but heck… this is all OLD OLD OLD hat…
El Salvador was never ANYTHING like Iraq… the two are like night and day…even more so when you know some of the back story.
You should know for the last 50 years your country running very effective propaganda well established internally thorough your media and internationally also
ah… yup… however not the same beast. if it werent for russia refusing to disband the intelligence agencies, we wouldnt hav ethem (Except for england). osi was disbanded, and when russia didnt disband theirs, we created the CIA
though i will tell ya truth… that i am not a push over when it comes to facts and things… history is only my side hobby…
I know propaganda… i know it trhough my family and my wifes family… grandparents are slovak… one parent is latvian… my wife is chinese indonesian…
care to talk to me of propaganda?
Or may be this withBoys in the Bubble made you believe they spading there democracy and freedom to 25 million in far land call Iraq.
no… because i am old enough and well versed enough to know the facts from sources, not from shills in the times. give me a break.
the times is a crap rag… owned by an old money family with the desire, like rockerfellers, of making a world wide communist state. remember Duranty? the Sulzberger family has controlled the paper since 1896…
by the way… kissinger, clintons, condoleeza, sulzbergers, bush, mccain, carter, and more are all members of the CFR…
the thing that most who come from sovilaist states steeped in propaganda dont get is america is the first and only example in history of a truly liberating army. ok?
france
belgium
spain
germany
japan
just a sample of countries who were liberated and proof against american imperialism… you see, all those coutnries are like soviet sattelite staes, right? the french speaking french instead of german is a ruse to get people like you to believe that they are still freinchmen, and not americans who speak french for your consumption.
sorry… but relativism doesnt work.
i want to know what you think is happning? logically speaking, the iraqies will do better with the US as despot, than with saddam as despot..
however the US is not despotic except in the eyes of those who have drank the soviet koolaid…
you see… its you truth that has been drinking the koolaid as to what america is. you will not look with your own eyes, and not make apples and oranges relative.
you probably dont know that many things that you believe are one way, are actually another way, and thanks to active measures (which the US doesnt wor4k to oppose) serving you the koolaid
You should know for the last 50 years your country running very effective propaganda well established internally thorough your media and internationally also
and you should know that the people doing that are not who you think they are. you can read the article where the leader of russia points out in Forbes that russia has purchased the largest publishing houses… duh.. bet you didnt know that?
that the TV and the movies, and schools were corrupted by the soviets way way back from the 40s onward. and by other groups who were not with the russians but were just as negative. care to read about them? read about the frankfurt school… read about how they came to columbia…
and as far as El Salvador… well, do you really want to start bantering back and forth the propaganda?
your siding with the leftists in el salvador and trying to make iraq and salvador similar (which they arent at all).
the article you link to is a classic plant peice. they pick a liberal jewish woman from chicago (can you say very leftist/communist?), and she then writes for a paper of note in germany (Bunte)…
and she does the classic… i thought they were the good guys, but they arent… but says nothing… i am unsure why you put it up?
she basically is fishing for a person to pay her for her anti american piece… but in the tradition of leftist chicago politics… what else would she write?
she is basically attempting to make money by selling photos.
you realize taht there is a huge active measures thing on each country that the US works with… right? or do you think they do notihing?
[read Soviet Active Measures in the Post-Cold War Era]
have you read: Dissent Paper on El Salvador and Central America ?
anyway… let me know if you know these things…
ALL of these are false inforamtion
Ganashakti / 04 Dec 89 / Newspaper of Communist Party of India (Marxist) falsely claims that U.S. provides $50 million per year to more than 250 terrorist groups
Pravda / 19 Nov 89 / Havana-datelined article falsely claims that U.S. pilots took part in “massive bombardments” of the capital of El Salvador during fighting launched by Marxist rebels.
Krasnaya Zvezda / 13 Dec 89 / Soviet newspaper falsely claims that rebellion in Philippines was “inspired by the CIA.”
Novosti Military Bulletin / Dec 89 / Article falsely suggests that the United States used outlawed mycotoxin (“yellow rain”) biological weapons in Southeast Asia in the early 1980s. In fact, Soviet-supplied mycotoxins were used by the Laotian and Vietnamese Communists.
[always accuse your enemies first… that way, when they discover what you do, your at worst equal]
U.S. Peace Council / Nov 89 / U.S. affiliate of Soviet-front World Peace Council issues booklet reviving disinformation that U.S. is producing a biological weapon that affects certain ethnic groups, but not others.
The Observer / 06 Jul 89 / United News of India, Press Trust of India, Patriot, and other Indian newspapers carry Novosti story falsely suggesting that U.S. nuclear tests in 1950s caused AIDS.
[you can see the biological weapons story, and other stories starting to gel after the 84 bioweapons active measures campaign]
News of Science and Technology / 10 Jun 89 / Novosti publication carries story claiming that November 1, 1952 U.S. H-bomb test on Bikini atoll was “the original cause and issue of AIDS on our planet.”
i dont have time, but i can find a lot more on salvador… and it has nothing to do with iraq, other than russia with cuba did a lot there…
what i could quickly find was more about the different measures of the aids campaign… and i dont have time to teach the world. someone wanted to know where to start, not have me list out full hsitorys
West German television / Hessischer Rundfunk and nationwide cable channel broadcast show “AIDS: The African Legend,” which features disinformation claims by East German doctor Jacob Segal. / 22 may 89
Rizospastis – Moscow-line Greek newspaper repeats false charge from April 14 Sovetskaya Rossiya that hearts are sold in U.S. for $100,000 to one million dollars.
and where did wright get his info?
The Voice – may 89 – Article in weekly newsletter that describes itself as “Britain’s Best Black Newspaper” repeats Jacob Segal AIDS charges.
All Africa Press Service / 01 May 89 / Repeats “ethnic weapon” allegations from April 25 issue of The Standard.
Straight Left / May 89 / Unsigned, but extremely detailed article titled “Ethnic Weapons” appears in monthly publication of pro-Soviet faction of the Communist Party of Great Britain.
TASS / Soviet government news agency falsely claims that U.S. is building new facilities to develop and test biological weapons
the standard / Kenyan daily carries false claim that Kenyan fetuses are being used by U.S. to make a weapon that kills only blacks. Kenyan Minister of Health immediately denies allegations.
Sabah / Turkish paper repeats Jacob Segal AIDS charges
Hoy / Peruvian daily repeats AIDS disinformation charge by Dr. Segal.
Zarya Vostoka feb 89/ Newspaper in Tbilisi, USSR repeats “ethnic weapon” disinformation
Vjesnik / Yugoslav daily prints Segal AIDS charges.
Sovetskaya Rossiya / Article in Soviet paper charges that AIDS was caused by nuclear testing.
Hoje Em Dia / Brazilian newspaper repeats Segal AIDS charges
La Republica / Panamanian daily reprints AIDS disinformation accusations.
Manchete / Brazilian magazine repeats AIDS allegations by East German doctor Jacob Segal.
Cambio 16 / Leading Spanish weekly publishes Jacob Segal AIDS charges
the reason i printed them all, is at the end of the list you can see how many spanish papers. could this be why the spanish dont like the US now? among oher things, like your inforamtin?
Clinton and others ahve gutted our intelligence agencies to mostly signint… and so we dont get info like we used to, and we certainly dont get to pull operations like we used to. communists in our own state, foil such just as much as they attempt to foil the war in iran. the LAST thing russia needs is a stable third world where raw materials are for sale.
maybe you should read “Propaganda and Mass Persuasion” by nicholas john cull. it covers disinformation.
i would highly recomend for you
the world was going our way: the KGB and the battle for the third world
you will find that much of what you think you know, you dont know. that the disinformation is so complete that we all walk around with false facts and that many of our trusted sources are not worth trusting.
for instance… that i should know that hte US does disinformatin… duh… i do… but i also know that the world wide kings of it for 100 years has been russian.
In 1992 the British Secret Intelligence Service exfiltrated from Russia a defector whose presence in the West remained a secret until the publication of The Sword and the Shield in 1999. That man was Vasili Mitrokhin, the KGB’s most senior archivist. Unknown to his superiors, Mitrokhin had spent over a decade making notes and transcripts of highly classified files which, at enormous personal risk, he smuggled out of the KGB archives. The FBI described the archive as “the greatest single cache of intelligence every received by the West.” In The Sword and the Shield, Christopher Andrew revealed the secrets of the KGB’s operations in the United States and Europe; now in The World Was Going Our Way, he has written the first comprehensive account of the KGB and its operations throughout the Third World. Our understanding of the contemporary world remains incomplete without taking into account the vast impact of the KGB in developing nations: Andrew reveals the names of political leaders on the KGB payroll as well as the KGB’s successful penetration of numerous foreign governments. He also points to the many absurdities of KGB operations-such as agents attempting to assess the spread of influence of rival Chinese communism by visiting African capitals and counting the number of posters of Mao Tse Tung. For decades the KGB believed that the world was going their way-and Americans at the highest reaches of government lived in fear that they were losing the Cold War in the Third World. This extraordinary book will transform our understanding of the history of the twentieth century.
thats it.
its a mess… and i am sorry for that.
but i dont have time to do the work that you should do. i have alerady done it. been doing so probably longer than you have been alive. and when i was young, i spent most of my time with the adults. latvians and those who lived under the most brutal eras of the soviets, dont particularly have the same ideas as others do. they know what was real and false back then.
you can also read
The KGB and Soviet disinformation: an insider’s view findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_v38/ai_4373956
there is a heck of a lot out there…
and i will tell you that the lions share is active measures atainst the US and her interests… and if your going to discuss soemthign like iraq, iran, etc.. and you dont want to be discussing some moralistic jinoist crapola, then you have to start thinking like the world leaders we have.
no one really would put a milqtost into office, so none of these guys are the kinds that act on philosophical arguments of morals. they act on behalf of their people or themselves.
and the presidents that do the most for america, are the ones that the left hates the most
they are relying on your ignorance…
that you dont even remember last year.. when gas was 2.90… unemployment was under 5… etc.. in fact the whole thing we are under now, happened in one year…
and isnt it funny that the communists were the ones screwing withthe machine?
i know an awful lot of what others dont know… i remember when i read… so i remember things when they were said back in carters era… and before.
i am also well versed in history… not the stalinist stuff, but the original histories… non revised (revisioning hsitory is stalinsit).
catch ya later.
the CIA and the KGB are not relative… not by a long shot… reletivating them is funny… as dark as the cia could get, russias agencies were worse, and not only that… preyed on MILLIONS of her people openly…
Wow, so enlightening post thanks Artfldgr.
If you excuse me to say about your point with regards:
(then wait 20 years to see if facts pan out),
I can say 100 years or 50 years the media not as big as today adding the internet which make our world like one big village all this I think have shortened the time that you suggested to facts pan out.
I agree with you about liberal Jewish woman from Chicago she might be as you said.
But with your siding with the leftists in el salvador and trying to make iraq and salvador similar (which they arent at all).
I have to say there were same team (Captain James Steel, who worked in Salvador was brought to Iraq and was first sine involving in training ”Wolf Brigade” death squad and what we sow after that of militias and sectarian war which is related to that team work.
May you don’t believe but facts /lies all the times run in two parallel lines
you dont start by trying to sort out todays facts… (and then wait 20 years to see if facts pan out), you read about prevous incidents and the facts…
What is Propaganda? Defining Propaganda
1- : (n) propaganda (information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause) according to “WordNet”
2- It is one of the most troublesome words in the English language. To define it clearly and precisely, so that whenever it is used it will mean the same thing to everybody, is like trying to get your hands on an eel. You think you’ve got it-then it slips away. From historians.org
3- Propaganda is:
A. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
B. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.
C. Propaganda Roman Catholic Church A division of the Roman Curia that has authority in the matter of preaching the gospel, of establishing the Church in non-Christian countries, and of administering Church missions in territories where there is no properly organized hierarchy. from the free dictionary
From all above its clear the goal of the propaganda is it not how much content of facts or fails words in, it’s to impose the goals for those the creator.
So you saying “don’t start by trying to sort out today’s facts” of course this is some thing that propaganda need it.
The propaganda creators needs 20 years after most the wittiness of those today facts gone then those propaganda creators with who follow them will manufacture and restructured their facts to be pan out facts for today propaganda.
Truth…
your missing the point.. a person wanted to learn about propaganda… to look at todays stuff and try to discern which is dumb luck, which is by manipulation and so forth, when one hasnt studied at all… is pretty impossible… you will end up makig a paranoid basket case of someoen who wanted to learn.
and i am REALLY serious about that. if their glimps is their first big WOW, they will think they found the secret of the universe, it wlll all seem to make sense, an they will then be wipsawed all aroudn till they are paranoid.
i have watched reasonable people get a whiff of this, and dive in, and then go bonkers with the facts and not temper them. they end up like angleton said, being stuck in a room of mirrors and not knowing whats real or not.
i would not send someone out to learn from information that is close to how they feel.
if they study the zion crap, they will be reading about something that is well known, has a history that can be followed.. there is still research that can be done, and like a teaching book, has the answers to it.
if you send them on the iraq thing… they are like children in the woods by themselves with no weapons trying to find wolves.
the outcome is not going to be pleasant.
they will not read in a way that shows them how there are different spheres of operation, and how they overlap… they wont get that world leaders dont watch hanity and colmes, or whomever… that is OUR sphere… the sphere were our grainy small power is agregated by arguments having little to do with the facts…
their sphere is looking at the big picture… you want to stop crap in darfur? want to stop destabilization in isreal area? want to stop mugabe? want to stop
well, you can go out and start a small war in all of those places. send troops and end up playing catchup all the time..
OR, you can sway a line of countries to your side. iraq is gone, turkey sided with us… we protect turkey from predatio from russia in exchange for moving their weapons, and they wont move the weapons.
you can see that iran is the next baddie.. and pakistan.. pakistan is weak enough that its still in play. it was worth assasinatinos and such to create that ambiguity. afghanistan is a done deal…
so only iran and pakistan are swayable… pakistan is in play… iran is diggin in..
if we close that all off… weapons and explosives and experts will nto be so easy to mvoe wihout being called to the matresses for it.
this is a different sphere… a sphere of moving things in the big picture.
if we close iran, and pakistan…
we would achieve dozens of our goals, and would do it with a lot less loss of life. the africans will be free to get an economic boost from their raw materials on the market. they will be allowed to develop economy.
darfur, mugabe, etc… all stops when they run out of weapons… and expertise from russian experts that are not helping but are manipulation while pretending to help.
what is propaganda?
its the same as porn..
just because language isnt sufficient, doesnt mean that everything is defined by language.
we KNOW what we are talking about. we know we are talking about orchestrating messages which have no truth in them other than as an ingredient to manipulate others to meet political aims.
doing this to get me to buy a prius over a volkswagon might loosely be called propaganda, but in truth these are associated to cloud our definitions.
the same process is used to make pornography acceptable. at what point does good clean smut or portrayal move over to porn? well, by pointing to facets of our definition and isolating them, we destroy any meaningful definition.
we get bogged down in materialisms and find the words insufficient for the higher more abstract concepts.
is a nude scene in a movie about relationships porn?
is a nude scene in a movie that has no plot, but only nude scenes porn?
if a man has no sex, or copulation, but murders someone in a way in which the act is heavily sexual, even though no sex has occured, is that porn?
its a game… if you mention nudity, then they play with that FACET… he isnt nude in the last one, so it must not be porn..
this is the same facile and febrile logic that finds oppression by not having everything settle to equality rather than equivalence…
if you want to understand the stuff used to manipulate masses for power… then dont start with the mess in front of you today…
we dont vivisection life people to find out how they are built, we dissect the dead.
you dont work on a live situation where the records and things are sealed against you unless you have clearance… you work on the stuff that is known, follow other footsteps, and work on the corpses in history tolearn.
then you might actually get somewhere rather than end up someones patsy.
Please – can you give me any book titles on Psychological Warfare and Propoganda? Can Neo or someone else?
The Prince by Machiavelli would be useful to you if you followed along on the Iraq War via details given out by blogs like Black five. If you hadn’t, however, then it would be of limited use to you without the background knowledge in politics and nation conquering.
Machiavelli specifically addressed what a Prince of the medieval ages was supposed to do and consider when invading and holding foreign territories (principalities) that had a different language and custom from the Prince’s.
The lesson of Machiavelli is that people matter. A Prince can be most secure if he wins the loyalty of the people, regardless of whether the people were originally his or somebody he conquered.
Machiavelli tells us of why the people are important. Propaganda teaches us how to convince people. Machiavelli only wanted to convince the people to support the Prince, but propaganda can be used to do the opposite as well. It can convince people to rebel, to commit crimes, to destroy themselves even.
Psychological warfare is the realm where the objective is to target and destroy the enemy’s mind first and foremost. It is called warfare because advertisement can be termed propaganda in that it seeks to convince you to do something, but war exists to destroy people and their materials. It is a difference not with the means you use, but with the goal you seek.
Yuri Bezmenov’s short video here Link
will give you a good overview of what the Soviets were doing in the Cold War in Psychological Warfare against the US.
Depending on your beliefs and life experiences, you may accept it easily or you may not accept it as true at all. It depends.
If you have never seen a personal example of someone using psychological warfare, like say guilt tripping someone into killing themselves, all of this stuff would be rather abstract for you.
If you study history, then it will be easier since you will have plenty of examples in history of people using propaganda and psychological warfare. You just have to recognize their means and methods, which shouldn’t take long.
The CIA’s manual on psychological warfare is more like a pro-insurgency manual. It’s short, but it has some interesting things to say. It floats around the internet as a free .txt file last time I checked.
Depending on your life experiences, you may not need to learn much that is new to you. If you have experienced what a narcissist can do personally, then all you should do is to translate that experience onto a geo-political level.
There’s two ways to learn psychological warfare and propaganda. Go from the bottom up and learn about several civilian and military fields that contribute to it, ultimately giving you a synthesis and background to grasp both the methods and goals when factions use propaganda and psychological warfare. or you can learn about propaganda and psychological warfare as people do them. Yuri Bezmenov conducted operations for Soviet KGB. He knows the deal and will explain it to you. The Democrats conducting political campaigns are a good example of propaganda in action. They seek to convince Americans to vote for them. If you can comprehend their goals and methods, if you are an excellent political analyst or operator, then that might be a useful example for you to study, Portial.
If you are in the military or have family or friends in the military, then studying Al Qaeda’s propaganda and psychological warfare efforts in Iraq or Afghanistan would be of great benefit to you in terms of acquiring a grasp of current active operations in propaganda and psychological warfare. Again, if you have no personal experience with Iraq or Afghanistan, then those won’t be reliable study material for you. Even if you know someone that has been in Iraq, they won’t know the full picture either, but can only provide you a part. You must then seek out a whole lot of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. Michael Yon + everybody else in the Marines or so.
So those are just two possible ways of learning. Learn from the bottom and then put the pieces together, or take the full picture and then disassemble it into its component parts via reverse engineering.
I was lucky enough to be following both courses. I had great teachers such as Neo-Neocon who told me what psychology was all about, not from a theory, but from practice. And not just practicing on others but practicing on herself.
Then I had to study Iraq and Afghanistan and see how propaganda worked there, how the US used it against our enemies and how our enemies used it against us. It was a great current events issue to be resolved, but I still needed to comprehend psychology first in at least some small part.
This meant that when I was studying one part, it wasn’t influencing my views on another part. They were separate, so I used them to check each other. If you can’t use something to check the veracity of what you are learning, like having the solution, then you may not be learning anything of use to you. Not anything that is true, that is.
Again, the Prince is good if you know geo-politics or feudalism or just plain history. Sun Tzu is not worth anything unless you already know the principles of warfare. But it can help you start in on it, since The Art of War focuses so much on deception. But it doesn’t tell you why deception is important, not in the details anyways.
Clausewitz’s On War is very long and very involved, requiring a solid comprehension of modern warfare. At least modern by European standards.
These texts won’t enlighten you much about Propaganda or Psychological War, but they may fill in gaps. They write about some of the methods used in propaganda. Things like feeding the enemy false information by pretending not to notice enemy spies in your camp. Things like avoiding friction in warfare since even the simplest things in war become incredibly complex to do.
In summary, to learn psychological warfare you must learn about psychology and warfare, then combine them together.
If you wish to learn propaganda, then learn the arts of persuasion which includes oration, rhetoric, good writing, communication skills, advertisement, PR, and lies vs honesty.
If you want examples of psychological warfare, look at the Cold War via Yuri Bezmenov’s interview videos provided in the link.
If you want examples of propaganda, look at any advertisement program, or any Prince attempting to maintain hold over a conquered province, or campaign ads or how Al Qaeda failed to convince the Iraqis that Americans were foreign infidels that had to be driven out.