I believe you can read through Andrew Sullivan’s blog for pointers to the evidence that our government intentionally tortured prisoners and thereby murdered some.

A perfect example for this thread of an indelibly engraved “truth” that requires absolutely no evidence for.

And for once(just this once, so far), Hyman is right. Before the Mormans in Illinois(around 1830, or so), marriage was done in a church. Now, it is a State regulated affair, or a civil contract, if you will. No sanctity about it whatsoever.
When asked what the greatest Commandment was, Jesus answered “love God”. When asked what was the second greatest, He answered “love your neighbor as yourself”. Well, guess what? Your neighbor is gay. They should be allowed what you allow yourself. Period.

townhall.com/blog/g/bf1c9989-4f8a-4def-ae64-60928e4072e1

ELTON JOHN SOLVES GAY MARRIAGE CONTROVERSY

One of the world’s most prominent gay entertainers offered some rare common sense on the explosive issue of same sex marriage. In New York City for a gala AIDS benefit, rock legend Sir Elton John appeared with his long-time partner, David Furnish. “We’re not married,” he told the press, “Let’s get that straight. We have a civil partnership…I don’t want to be married! I’m very happy with a civil partnership. The word ‘marriage,’ I think, puts a lot of people off.

You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships”. If more people on all sides of this issue embraced the simple, irrefutable logic of this clear-thinking superstar, a vastly divisive, unnecessary controversy could reach a successful and amicable solution.

so again.. a leftist is being shown that they are actually wrong on the issues when they are forced to look at the details…

will that turn the tide? nope… cause theire is no logical basis for the position, there is no logical bases to get off the position either.

because MARRYING is a RELIGIOUS SERVICE and a UNION is a STATE SERVICE.

they have unions with all the same rights as marraige… what they dont have is the ability to force a preist and a religion to practice acts agasinst their own ideas of wahts right and wrong.

in other words they are going to beat up on religion till religion complies and lets them walk down church aisles… rather than by a court judge.

marraige is a church institution
civil unions are the states copy of marraige

if a club or org, or religion, or even constition cant preserve its salient points…

then it can evolve into something else, which is why ideology is not allowed to change… even in the face of scientific evidence. if it cahnges it becomes something else.

if marraige changes then it will cease to be marraige. just as a human is no longer a fish from whence it came way back when.

stagnation and complete conservation is what they do, while claimig progress and such.

if a club says members have to have A, B, C and D… that defines the club…

if someone else comes in and says no no no… members should have A, C, D, G and Y…

would that be the same club, or a different one?

ah… and thats where the problem is… who gets to define membership in a group? the people who are the leaders of that group, or outside members that want to have the groups power and cache, but also want to gut the internals and make it their own!

in other words… civil unions are no good… why? because people who are members of churches and religions are happier, stay together longer, have more success, are healthier, and so forth…

so we attribute these qualities not to sorting the population and extracting a subset based on rules which act as a filter… no… they are cargo cult and image only.. so they think that being a member of the church conveys things…

but of course as soon as they are members, and the sorting rules change, the positive outcomes of the group fade away…

when few people went to college… college meant more salary… now that all do… college doesnt mean anything near as much (except in the most technical areas you cant fake).

lets put it this way… your at a baseball game. and if you stand up you can see better…

the minute everyone stands up, then what?

the advantage of being in the minority group that sorts out to better is gone.

if you carefully analyse it… they are being used to crush a organization that by its nature and its rules show that acceptig a cultural way of life can lead to better ways of living… and that all ways of living ar enot the same…

and therefore, these fringe groups perform less well not because of oppression, but because they are less capable!

the church proves (like genetics) that an aspect of ideology is false… that all groups and types are inherently equal.

there is a mathematical reason why gay families underperform heterosexual families… and a host of genetic things too (like what happens when biological parents are not around. prader willis syndrome, early menses, etc).

in fact, the gay movement and leftist communists deny the necessity of family…

[which destroys the ability for new family dynasties to threaten old ones]

that familes are unnatural… but there is HUGE biological evidence to show that hetersexual familes are the biological norm…

in fact… grandparents are necessary… since their success in helping the family becomes a feedback tothe genes of the children!!! that the old age errors that help get preserved because of familial feedback is key…

much of what we are doign have negative genetic effect, and all of it is based on assertions made in the 20s and 30s that are not allowed to change.

The 4,600-year-old grave contained the remains of a man, woman and two youngsters, and DNA analysis shows they were a mother, father and their children.

basically the family is the key unit… and the destruction of such is a necessity to undo the genetics that benifit that grouping… why?

the math that proves the sorting is what shows what they are agaisnt.

men and women are not equal, they are complimentary.

they have skilsl they do the same or near the same
they ahve skilsl that one side does better than the other
they have skills that only one side can do

i wrote a paper on it… (though am loath to publish it and get attacked).

if you take two entities, and you lay out 20 skills qualities by a letter… and give them values based on those three rules above… you will fint somethig interesing.

the combines ability of the complimentary pair is much greater than the abilities of the homogeneous pairs.

it doesnt matter what these skills are or how they are divided by asexless mathematical modeling.. the results are always the same…

the pairings that are complimentary are more efficient, effective, independent, and interdpendent than the others. and so they are more successful, live longer, gather more, and so on.

homogneous parings which the rulers of a separated gender society… they cant do as well… so the idea is to trick us into thinking that the best pairing is the worst… (and what games they play)

it would take book volumes to just lay it all out… but its there.. its easy to do… its just huge and no one wants to truge through it when its easier to just say they are bigots, and easier to throw rocks than debate.

but then again.. the minute we let political terrorism be a normal way to an end in a democratic republic, we lsot the democratic republic.

thats not a birth certificate… see how easy it is to trick a person on the left… they go online thinking we arent that clever, and they find a birth cert, that isnt a birth cert.

what was the time of birth?
who were the two parents?
what was the doctors name?
the hospitals name?

you see. that paper is NOT a birth cert… how about reading the link you put up before you throw crap at the wall to see if it sticks?

this is what is called a COLB, a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH, not a BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

the document has been analysed by several forensics people online and their work you can go and review and DUPLICATE.

even the COLB is fake, its his sisters.

and a COLB was available to those born out of the country.

Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence,”

the left keeps thinking the right is stupid because if the right were smart they would be as stupid as the left.

the problems can all be put to rest by obama in a heartbeat by releasing his actual birth certificate.

after all, the people and his family in kenya believe he was born in kenya.
his sister here gives two different hospitals that he was born at (neat trick)
a imam claims to be the son of the imam that gave barry his middle name after birth in kenya.

[this may actually make him a british citizen... since kenya at the time had not be overhtrown by his cousins plot with the communists helping]

take some time… people have taken the time to put in their COLBS from the same years as comparissons…

NOTHING about it is right… the borders are off (they are preprinted, so only obamas is cut and pasted? you can SEE it easily)… there is no stamp… you can play with the colors and see his sisters name come through (thats with the KOS copy) and a lot more… fonts are different. they are not lined up in the same places as the type in other colbs, which are all the same otehr than barrys.

and as of this morning… one lawsuit of seventeen has been dismissed…

“does not have a direct and tangible interest in the vital statistic records being sought, namely the birth certificate of President Obama,” Bert Ayabe wrote.

[no one is willing to say who has standing!!! in other words who will be cheated or harmed if he is in office. given that all docs and treaties and such he signs are then null and void, and that other countries after the fact will use that against us as much as in shakespears richard the iii. so all of us technically have standing as citizens that our leader is a valid leader. the courst are basically ruling no one has standing!!!]

none of the dissmissals are because of the birth cert being produced or valid… but for other reasons… so they are avoiding being the devil that causes civil war…

meanwhile. the electoral college hasnt put in their votes… which is why obama is PRESUMTIVE president… they could still put in mccain… and historically they have dones this once before.

thats december 5th

he has a deadline with a candidate suing that has a deadline of december 1st.

and as far as standing…

i guess “we the people” really is no longer in force now

here is a version of the original analysis, an obama supporter attacked his property

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/07/atlas-exclusive.html

the whole analysis is there… you can see the borders… the mismatching on the online version from kos…

its very thorough as the person who did it does this for a living and appears in court.

he goes to comparign the test samples from many years and resolutions, they are all centered, their fonts are the same, the positions of things are the same within X pixels…

look at the obama kos image and they are not centered… its off by an average of 75 pixels not the others 15 pixels.

the KOS border is completely different than the others…

he took them and with some work overlayed them upon each other to match them up. since COLBs are typed print on PREPRINTED paper with security marks on it, all the COLB papers should match up since they all come from the SAME printer…

the 2007 colb and 2008 colb borders match, obamas 2007 does not… its completely different…

“Several letters were distinctly different in width and kerning from the 2007 / 2008 certificate font versus the font used in the KOS image such as O, H, N, R, and C. ”

the most interesting is the HEAT MAPS… this is where they play with the colors the same way, and see what appears that is picked up. in this way scans show natural things that other things do not.

The 2007, 2008, and the two KOS images were also analyzed for jpeg compression variations by creating a heat map showing where the difference for a particular compression level is indicated. A change was considered relevant once the sum of the changes to the error level values exceeded 10% of the previously calculated compression error rates. The heat map created from the 2007 and 2008 images showed the fonts, seal image, and security border are all identical consistent values. To eliminate any subjective presumptions and to increase the number of comparative tests the same analysis was then conducted on the 2006 and prior certificate images which all found the fonts, seal images, and security borders to also be compressed with identical consistent values. The same analysis on the KOS image indicated that the security border has a different error value than the fonts and the seal image.

all of the others are the same… the kos shows variations in compression in different areas.

for the less technical… they recompressed a previously compressed border which was copied into the document.

in other words. you take the original COLB scan at that acompression… and you copy the border and make a new one. when the jpeg compresses, its compressing on top of compressing. showing that the elements in the document were made in different stages and using different sources none of them being original scans…

The image contains numerous visible artifacts located at various points throughout the image. These artifacts are not found on any other known good image from any examined time frame.

basically he shows the flaws in detail…

A close examination of the security border itself reveals several repeating inconsistencies. Among them is a “weak line” which repeats once after every second bold line and a slightly downward curving end point where a straight line should end. This pattern continues around the entire perimeter of the security border. Upon very close inspection portions of the security border also repeat every 240 pixels. By mapping this repeating pattern it becomes apparent that the pattern is laid out as a 240 x 240 pixel square that can be accurately extrapolated to the next position by simply counting 240 pixels. This type of tiling effect is commonly seen when an image has been modified by filling an area using an image editing application’s tile or pattern fill function.

all that work on something that is supposed to be a clean scan… why?

The COLB certificates are printed directly in the clerk’s office at the time they are requested. The system uses a standard laser printer and the border is printed at the same time as the text and other images on top of preprinted security paper. He stated the border is a vector image and would appear crisp and defined. When asked if a COLB can be printed off center he said it was not possible and any misfeed would simply jam in the printer. When asked if he had seen the images on-line he replied that he had – and that there is “no way” they had printed something that looked like that which further backed up my conclusions. Now let’s start to put the pieces of the puzzle together. The KOS image security border pattern does not match any known specimen from any known year. It does not match the pre-2006 nor does it match the post-2006 certificate patterns. The placement of the text in all of the pre-2006 and post-2006 certificates are almost identical pixel location matches while the image’s text placement does not match any known specimen from any known year. The shape and kerning of the fonts used in the 2006 through 2008 certificates are identical while the shape and kerning of the fonts used in the image does not match any known specimen. The KOS image shows clear signs of tampering such as the mismatch in RGB and error levels, visible indications of the previous location of the erased security border, easily detectable patterns of repeating flaws around the new security border, EXIF data that says the image was last saved with Photoshop CS3 for Macintosh, and finally a technician from Hawaii who confirms it just looks wrong.

“The religious sacrament of marriage is a thing apart from the legal institution of marriage.”

I understand the difference between legal and common use of terms but I don’t buy your point here. Why has the state co-opted this term as a legal term? The government simply imposed a tax and license system on the religious sacrament. It can’t be separated.

“The former is no problem – any number of churches and synagogues now provide the religious sacrament for gay couples.”

Which is fine and good. That’s where this should be dealt with. Not in government.

“The legal institution is necessary so that married gay couples can have the same rights and benefits as straight ones”

It’s called civil unions. If there really are protections loopholes (which I doubt is always factually true) they should be going to court to close those.

Really, the state needs to be out of the marriage business. It’s none of its business. Just like it is none of yours to try to redefine it using the state.

“The former is no problem – any number of churches and synagogues now provide the religious sacrament for gay couples.”

Which is fine and good. Thats where this should be dealt with.

“The legal institution is necessary so that married gay couples can have the same rights and benefits as straight ones”

Its called civil unions. If there really are protections loopholes (which I doubt is always factually true) they should be going to court to close those.

Really, the state needs to be out of the marriage buisness. Its none of its buisness. Just like it is none of yours to try to redefine it using the state.

American Public Flunks Basic Civics

*Fully 71 percent of Americans flunked a 33-question civic-literacy survey conducted by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute. Among 2,508 respondents ISI randomly selected, 1,791 failed this test of U.S. historical, political, and economic basics. The average score was just 49 out of 100 — a solid F. While just 2.6 percent scored Bs on this quiz, only 0.8 percent earned As.
*Just 49 percent of rank-and-file Americans can identify the legislature, executive, and judiciary as our three branches of government.

*Forty percent of college graduates have no idea that corporate profits equal revenues minus expenses. (Thus, congressional demagoguery about “windfall profits” falls on sympathetic ears.) Only 24 percent of college grads realize that the First Amendment forbids the establishment of an official U.S. religion.

*Amazingly enough, this sample’s 164 self-identified elected officials know even less than laymen. They averaged only 44, as the blind lead the bland. Among office holders, 30 percent did not know that the Declaration of Independence heralds “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

*However, we the people closely follow popular culture here in the United States of “American Idol.” Only 21 percent of respondents correctly identified Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg address as the source of the words “government of the people, by the people, for the people.” But 56 percent properly named Paula Abdul as a judge on the karaoke sensation “American Idol.”