December 2nd, 2008

About blessings and enemies

Blogger Yaacov Ben Moshe is an essayist whose thoughts are well worth reading. In this post, he ruminates on Mumbai and its significance, as well as his rage at the following bumper sticker, which he saw recently on a car in Newton Massachusetts:

sticker.jpg

I share his disgust with those who would display such a banner with the intent of annoying the “God Bless America” folks. I have no patience with those who ignore our strengths, and whose reflexive position is to revile most of America’s actions while employing a double standard for the rest of the world.

I most strongly share his rage at the Islamic terrorists, who cold-bloodedly murdered so many innocents in Mumbai to no purpose but their own nihilistic yearnings and their desire to punish infidels and strike fear into the hearts of anyone associated with the West. I especially deplore and despise their sadistic torture of many of their victims (evidence is that they saved the worst torture for the Jews).

Ben Moshe wonders about other aspects of the sentiment expressed in the bumper sticker:

What does that mean? Does it mean they would call down God’s blessing on the stinking swine who apparently did their reconnaissance in the Chabad House by posing as travelers and accepting the food, hospitality and blessings of the Rabbi and his family while they plotted their torture and death?

Does it mean that they can see no moral or spiritual difference between the Rabbi who welcomed and served them with an open heart and the filthy, lying murderers who rewarded his kindness by killing his wife before him and letting him suffer her death, tenderly wrapping her body in his prayer shawl, before murdering him?

I know enough about the Left and its moral relativism towards the excesses of third world countries and peoples, and especially about those who adopt terrorist causes as their own pet projects, to know that Ben Moshe is correct about some of the people who would place this bumper sticker on their cars. But I hereby offer another (and yes, a kindler, gentler) explanation for at least some the rest.

The word “bless” can be interpreted in other ways than simply equating the worthiness of murderers with that of innocents. It is possible to ask for a blessing for one’s enemies (and if the word “enemy” has any meaning at all—and I most definitely believe it does—these people are our enemies) without such moral equivalence. For example, it would be a blessing if the terrorists’ hearts were opened to the light of respect for the religion of others. It would be a blessing if terrorists realized that the wanton murder of innocents and torture of same are wrong. Such a change would be an enormous blessing not just for the rest of us, but for the terrorists themselves.

It is a matter of personal belief whether one thinks such a basic change in a human being can be accomplished by prayer. I submit, however, that many religious people do indeed think so, and that this is a possible (and far more benign) interpretation of the bumper sticker Ben Moshe found so offensive.

But even for those who believe in the power of prayer, it is clear that we cannot wait around for such a profound transformation to take effect through prayer alone. Fortunately, prayer and action are not mutually exclusive. We must take multiple and varied actions in the world to seek out terrorists and prevent them from being able to cause new horrors such as those in Mumbai.

52 Responses to “About blessings and enemies”

  1. Dan Collins Says:

    What does it mean? It means that in Obamaworld, there is to be mercy without judgment, and that Dante’s a mean old meany, and that mean people suck.

  2. Alifa Saadya Says:

    If I didn’t believe in hell, I think I would go nuts. When I go to work in Jerusalem every day, I pass no less than a dozen sites where people have been murdered by terrorists. My next-door neighbor, whom I had known since he was about 5 years old, was murdered in his workplace. I have been at the scene of a terrorist incident (the bombing of the Frank Sinatra cafeteria at Hebrew University), and my daughter was at work on Ben Yehuda street when three bombs went off, and later, on Jaffa Road during a shooting.
    My only sympathy towards terrorists is in seeing them as the victims of what Buddhists call “the three poisons” — hatred, greed, and ignorance. If I didn’t believe that they merit hell, I don’t think I could go on at this point. I can leave the judgment and punishment to God, but I have to believe there is punishment.
    And hope lies in the many incredible stories of individual courage and compassion shown by those who were themselves under attack, and yet managed to help save others. God bless them all.

  3. Helen Says:

    I think there might be a difference between praying for our enemies and pleading with God to enlighten them and actually calling on Him to bless them.

  4. DirtyJobsGuy Says:

    The meaning of the bumper sticker is clear and the owner wants to show us we are proud and haughty to to wish God to bless America. It is as if we were shouting Gott mit uns! All it shows is the shallowness of the left. Traditionally calls for God to bless America included a request for wisdom and guidance. These are often unstated but traditionally were understood.

    This call for support coupled with guidance recognizes that we are a nation, but a nation that is not so haughty as to reject divine inspiration. The request is just as important as the answer

  5. neo-neocon Says:

    Helen: well, it might be semantics, but I consider enlightenment to be a blessing.

  6. Artfldgr Says:

    I find it interesting that everyone pegged the terrorsts as “islamic fundementalists”, but few people are paying close attention to DETAILS that might contradict that, and perhaps point to a source for the ‘expertise’.

    on the obamaniacs front, some of them are completely amazed that there was the opposite of a terrorist reduction…

    “there are many who suggested that with the outgoing Bush administration and the incoming Obama administration there would be something of a lull in terrorism attacks. There had been such a global outpouring of affection, respect, hope, with the new administration coming in, that precisely these kinds of attacks, it was thought — at least hoped — would be dampered down. – Alex Witt MSNBC”

    so you can be pretty sure that people are not even trying to connect things together in a way that would make sense in a larger picture. like those contests where you loko at a magnified image and cant tell what your looking at, but as soon as you pull back, it all makes sense.

    since the players playing are very good at what they do (despite our armchair opinions), ambiguity is king… the left people wouldnt believe or even try to get a cogent picture unless the situation was not ambiguous, and not deniable! as long as they can imagine the things that arent there in hte spaces, they will excuse everything and anything, then after the fact, excuse their culpability and complicity.

    anyway…

    go back and pay attention to the situation, and the outcomes and payoffs… cui buono…

    does india benifit from this? nope…
    does pakistan benifit from this? nope…
    do the islamics benifit from this? not really…

    the world is already so focused that the only real troublemakers are islamic, and the others are just freedom fighters or something…

    lets throw some facts on the table and see what appears… and not just restrict those key facts to just that tuiny area..

    recently russia has geared up the cold war… while this was all going on, russia was visiting cuba, and venezuela and cutting arms deals and agreements which will end up flooding south america with weapons.

    remember i keep posting that their economy is raw materials, and weapons… thats pretty much it…

    recently oil prices had dropped… medvedev had given left handed coments as to obama from his voting win onwards…

    iraq is closed down… period… even obama will have a problem reversing things and letting weapons and material pass through again… georgia is under the glass, but at least weapons can move… and they WON the big game which is to keep iran out of conflict so that weapons and materials can move through them to the middle east, africa… asia is supplied through pakistan.

    all these things i listed are facts.. they are pertinent when you start knitting together other things. like who are the experts that train the trainers in the camps?

    what would a false flag conflict between pakistan and india do, and who would benifit?

    right now they are pushing for an energy pipeline through turkey, through iraq, and through pakistan into india…

    “The Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) pipeline proposal is a $7.5 billion project that would transport gas from the western Iranian Pars gas field to India through Pakistan along a 1,500-mile route.

    The pipeline would be a triumph for Pakistan. The country hopes to make itself a major energy player linking the gas in Central Asia and the oil in the Middle East to the fast-growing economies of China and India”

    now that india and pakistan are fighting, how long before they settle and build a pipline that will reduce the power russia has over the EU through weaponizing energy supply?

    gazprom is the company that is doing the work… it was waht they dangled to pakistan to get them on the side, and with iran…

    so here they get to keep their promises, and go back on them at the same time!! as its not their fault… this then removes the potential of 70 million cubic meters of gass a year from entering the EU market… and waht happens to prices of the gas that russia is supplying?

    cui buono?

    lets magnify this a bit more.. medvedev is about to stop in mumbai and have a scheduled talk about things… the end result today is different thatn it would be before this indicent…

    thats is all background that almost everyone i talk to has completely no idea whats going on. they have completely no idea that this energy game is being played and the people playing it are the same people that played some of the nastiest games in the last century with absolutely no care as to the outcome for people other than themselves.

    what about this incident… what about the attackers? etc.. what did they look like? what did they drink and buy? and so forth?

    well first.. i said that any operation or thing has to first project that the enemy is the culprit, or is doing the same… if i accuse my opposition of what i am doing, i have just made things better for me under all circumstances… the “i did it and they were pure” concept is completely wiped off the table. all thats left is we both did it and only i got caught… or i did it, no one knows, and they believe my oponent did.

    such assertions often come out within hours of the event because the planners have no way to know how long would be a natural length…

    Former KGB Vympel Commando Vladimir Klyukin: US-Trained Pakistani Special Forces Carried Out Mumbai Attacks

    in other words he came out within hours to put blame on american special forces so that the useful idiots and fellow travelers would know what angle to take…

    A Russian counter-terrorism expert has said the Mumbai attackers were not “ordinary terrorists” but had probably been trained by special operations forces set up in Pakistan by the US intelligence before the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan.
    “The handwriting and character of the Mumbai events demonstrates that they were not ordinary terrorists,” said Vladimir Klyukin, an Afghan war veteran.
    “Behind this terrorist attack, there are Green Flag special operations forces.”
    the scale of the strikes, Klyukin, who was part of the KGB’s special Vympel commando group, believes there were at least 50 attackers. india telegraph

    so the angle your going to see from one sector has already been planted… you will later see it picked up but not credited… (like the hiv active measure).

    as obamas team mate was quoted as saying..
    why waste a good crisis…

    meanwhile, other analysists are thinking that it may be Spetznaz… the way things went were remarkably similar to operations from wwii (including the germans)… (the germans and russians entered states before invading and posed as something else to create and diminish the ability to respond… they have also done this before to get two entities pissed off at each other thinking the other did it… as they did in the US to pit blacks and hasidic jews by planting bombs and blaming the JDL).

    medvedev is about to meet in delhi to discuss terrrorism… but its real easy now to make an offer that they cant refuse since the msm facts will prevent such claims from being taken serious.
    india is stuck. (and pakistan is about to be punished for spliting hairs and trying to play both sides between russia and the US in the middl east).

    the terrorists used email remailers in the russian states to communicate and remain untraceable… they also received instructions from a central place… they werent free to move around, they were told go upstairs, etc… the contacts monitored telivison and news and relayed that back to the attackers as instructions… this signal originated in pakistan…

    when these agents of change arrived… they then proceeded to move about… they did not go on the offensive right away… they went and purchased food and supplied in quantity…

    one of the things they purchased… was alchohol.. another pair were seen drinking beers before they started their rampage… you can read this in early witness acounts…(which later you will not hear again).

    the whole thing was coordinated like a special forces operation… they were well trained and in their 20s… they came to the state using shipping containers (a tactic discussed in papers from the east), tthen moved to rubber assault rafts with speed boats.

    they commandered a few police vehicles… they also first attacked the main police station where they decapitated the leadership.. (so that might be why police were afraid to participate, they were still reeling from their organization being hit first and couldnt function!!!). basically they assasinated
    the chief of antiterrorism in that area.

    this from the indian media on the terrorsts that tookover nariman house… (which if you check out is related to the owners of the ny times).

    “The terrorists came to Colaba on Wednesday evening,” Mukund Shelke, who runs a grocery shop at Colaba Market, said. “Before barging into Nariman House, they had purchased adequate food to last them at least three days,” he said. “They had purchased around two crates of chicken and liquor worth Rs25,000 from two shops in Colaba,”

    now what would religious fundementalists do with a lot of alchohol? what militiary is known for constant alcohol consumption? etc…

    All phone calls made by them were tapped. They were being instructed from outside regarding their movement inside the hotel – whether to go upstairs or come down or make a move left or right.” – Manmohan singh

    there is only one military I know of that operates like that…

    According to Mumbai cafe owner Pappu Mishra, whose business is located in the historic CST railway station, the two terrorists who showed up at this site were “fair-skinned,” “sprightly, young men dressed in black,” who proceeded to “calmly” open fire on travellers with weapons that looked like AK-47s.

    news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7752625.stm

    According to Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi visitor at the popular tourist hang out Leopold Cafe, another attack site, the gunmen were “fair skinned,” “blonde-haired” beer drinkers, one of whom sported a “punkish hairstyle”:

    Locals say the orgy of killings in Mumbai began here. Three men walked into the cafe, drank beer, settled their bills and walked out. Then they fished out guns from their bags and began firing. Gaffar Abdul Amir, an Iraqi tourist from Baghdad, says he saw at least two men who started the firing outside the Leopold Cafe. He was returning to his hotel from the seaside with a friend when he saw two men carrying bags and brandishing AK-47s walking in front of them, shooting. “They did not look Indian, they looked foreign. One of them, I thought, had blonde hair. The other had a punkish hairstyle. They were neatly dressed,” says Mr Amir.

    that doesnt sound like typical radical muslim terrorists… does it?

    two of the terrorsits were found with british identification documents…

    this article covers that they used a server for the deccan mujahideen in russia…

    timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Jihadis_used_anonymous_service_to_send_email/articleshow/3774115.cms

    and there are a lot of questions about the organization… deccan mujahideen is pretty much unknown… but within days enough material appears on the net to have 80k links on google…

    the group is unknown for the most part… which may mean that its made up, or using the name of a fringe group where a larger group would have members denying the situation.

    its not the first time that such things happened from another place… see Islambouli Brigades and Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades

    basically it all stinks from the conclusions that this was an al queda thing…

    the people inside are known to have help… and we have no idea the number of spotters and other passive assistents they had who were relaying information to a coordinated mission room who then told the operatives how to act… (if this were so, the removal of the police heads would allow lower level individuals to order the police not to fire but wait for help… )

    in military parlance, its a force multiplyer…

    they performed better than the terrorsts that they have trained with their experts in the camps!

    if you want to study a similar parallel then study the tet offensive, and hue…

    india is semi communist… will they agree and now become a tighter member of the shanghai coopertion organization (whose logo looks like obamas)? will pakistan side with russia? if so then they just drove each of them into the arms of a different partner for the same cause… (Which then begs the question… is china a friend or a patient enemy?)

    by the way… the organization that claims to do this thing was credited with congratulating obama on victory.

    and now… pakistan and india are at each other… and they are nuclear powers… and how does this fare for the war in afghanistian now?

    in many many ways, i can see a cui buono to a few players and their hands are dirty with connections..

    Icing on the cake?

    russia was teh country that attacked our military computers and got into pentagon records (world bank break ins before the stock collapse also happened).

    russia has already set precidence in estonia, georgia, etc… as to hitting military computers, financial computers and such before playing their games.

    and as a cherry on top… ted turner said this about the KGB…

    “It’s an honorable place to work. And the KGB, I think, was an honorable place to work. And it, it gave people in the former Soviet Union, a communist country, an opportunity to do something important and worthwhile.”

  7. J. Peden Says:

    If the intent is to rile Christians, I don’t think the intendors realize how much they also revile people like me – non-Supernaturalists – by what appears to me to be their obviously deranged, infantile intent.

    Moreover, such people are already in their very own personal Hell, as far as I can tell.

  8. Scottie Says:

    I tend to agree with the sentiments of Yaacov Ben Moshe.

    Having said that, I would go farther in addressing the idea that those of faith are praying for their enemies by simply repeating what a very wise man said about 2 centuries ago:

    “God helps those who help themselves.”

    So, go ahead and pray – but please multi-task and pass the ammunition while you’re at it.

  9. Barkeater Says:

    My response is from a Buddhist perspective. Alifa Saadya referred to the “three poisons” — desires, anger and ignorance. The reason these are poisonous is the effect of each in hampering our ability to understand reality. So anything I can do to diminish their influence in my life is beneficial to me and to everyone I interact with. Wishing all people happiness helps counteract the effects in me of anger. So if the intention of the bumper sticker is to convey the message of universal compassion, it doesn’t offend me. However, if someone is using that same message with the intention of creating anger in others by expressing it in a way that is disrespectful to their devotion for their country, it should not be done. It only increases anger.

  10. SouthernJames Says:

    Neo,

    Just my two cents, but I think it is being unjustifiably generous to assume any noble or deep Christian motive for the “God Bless The Whole World” bumper sticker crowd. Those are the exact same people who have the following bumper stickers:

    “I didn’t need those Constitutional Rights anyway”

    (Can you name a SINGLE one YOU personally have lost. Didn’t think so).

    “I am already against the next war.”
    (Unless Dear Leader Obama declares it to be necessary, of course).

    The people who put that bumper sticker on their cars are just BDS suffering sanctimonious types, whose sole motive is to snark at the flag waving rubes who have the God Bless America stickers; and who don’t go to church anyway.

  11. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    Had they left it at “God Bless The Whole World,” they might have had plausible deniability that they were not intending to insult. The (no exceptions) addition gives the game away. They are clearly stating how good they are, much better than those other icky war people who hate. Like you, you hateful bastard.

    J. Peden, you might be amused to know that the Christian writer CS Lewis also believed the doors of hell were locked from the inside. If your curiosity is piqued, his The Great Divorce is quite interesting on the subject.

  12. Katrina Says:

    God makes it clear that we are to hate the sin and love the sinner. We are required to recognize that God made everyone himself and loves each soul. However, he will destroy followers of the dark, those who hate will be punished as we do not own that right. We do not own the right to hurt others indiscriminately. We do have every right to protect and defend. Terrorists should be put down like rabid dogs; with sadness that a human life which could have been good has gone the other way.

    The left thinks all religious people must be hate filled bigots because they do not understand that simple point.

    Someone with a bumper sticker like that one is either floating in a happy cotton candy world and has as much grasp on reality. Or is just noxious and pathetic.

  13. Kirk Petersen Says:

    Introducing the Artfldgr Coefficient — a unit of measure equal to the length of an Artfldgr comment divided by the length of the underlying Neo-neocon post.

    In this case, for example, Artfldgr’s comment is 2,276 words — it runs to nearly 6 full pages when pasted into Word. Neo’s underlying post happens to measure exactly 600 words. That yields an Artfldgr Coefficient of:

    2,276/600 = 3.793333

    Without actually doing any tedious research into the matter, I’m willing to hazard a guess that this is a record-high Artfldgr Coefficient.

  14. Katrina Says:

    I should probably clarify. By “love the sinner” I do not mean agree with them or allow them to reach their goal. It is simply a recognition of their initial worth as a creation. They may have become a cockroach, but they weren’t always one.

  15. Scottie Says:

    Kirk Petersen,

    Without getting into agreement or disagreement with anyone over any particular detail – I gotta say that was funny!

  16. Bogey Man Says:

    “Out damned spot”

  17. Baklava Says:

    Well said Neo.

    My coefficient is .005. Man I’m smooth.. 🙂

  18. Ymarsakar Says:

    My coefficient would have been higher, back in the good old days. Neh, Neo?

  19. Ymarsakar Says:

    The left thinks all religious people must be hate filled bigots because they do not understand that simple point.

    I think the Left thinks that because the Left are made up of hate filled bigots.

  20. Thomass Says:

    I guess it all comes down to the spirit in which it was given.

    On it’s own, fine.

    As a left handed rebuke to ‘God Bless America’… well, it’s from malice.

  21. Jamie Says:

    I dislike the fact that the bumper-sticker-brandishers appear not to understand that God’s blessing America does not in any way constrain God not to bless everybody else. The “God bless America” sentiment is a way to express “We think this country’s pretty great – may God continue to bless this noble experiment, and help us to attain God’s will for us,” not, “God damn everybody who isn’t us.”

  22. Jamie Says:

    Um… I don’t think I meant “constrain God not to bless.” Having a little grammar trouble here: naturally I meant “keep God from blessing.”

  23. david foster Says:

    I understand the point about the possible relatively-benign religious interpretation of the bumper sticker, but I doubt if many of the people who have it on their cars are devout Christians who would bless their enemies in other contexts. Would they, for example, bless the other professor who beat them out for the tenured position, or the other lawyer who beat them out for the partnership? Not very likely.

    My interpretation is much less nuanced and kindly: I think bumper stickers of this class (“who would Jesus bomb?” being another example) are an arrogant assertion of moral superiority regardless of the practical consequences of such assertion.

    C S Lewis had some useful thoughts on this kind of thing.

  24. Jamie Says:

    And another thing: It bugs me that the same people who tell me (“me” in the abstract – no one’s actually told me personally this, because I don’t go around attracting this sort of attention) that I’m arrogant for claiming to know the mind of God on some subject such as women priests, the practice of homosexuality, or what to do about teenage pregnancy appear to have no compunctions at all about claiming that the mind of God is in their corner on these subjects – often using a lot less textual evidence. (And what other “evidence” do we have?)

    It so happens that I personally generally agree with their positions. But I’m not so sure of myself, or of the mind of God, that I want to go around telling everybody it’s my way or the highway. I’m Episcopalian (now), which means that officially I punt all controversial subjects. (The American Episcopal Church phrases it approximately thusly: we agree to live in tension and dialog until consensus arises.) In practice, we apparently check our brains at the door and embrace every liberal trend that comes a-calling.

    Sigh. I used to be Catholic, which at least had the advantage of standing for something, sometimes.

  25. Kirk Petersen Says:

    Neo!!!

  26. Kirk Petersen Says:

    My immediate prior post has a Artfldgr Coefficient of 0.00166666666666666666 — the lowest possible until Neo writes a longer post.

  27. Kirk Petersen Says:

    Jamie, as a fellow Episcopalian, I got a smile out of your post — the official position on controversial subjects is to punt.

    If only more Episcopalians were willing to live in tension, as opposed to, say, realigning with the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone.

  28. Trimegistus Says:

    Stickers like this all have the same underlying message:

    “I hate you, Daddy!”

  29. Lee Says:

    A bumper sticker for Artfidgr:

    “If you can read this, I’m getting reception from the hidden microphone in your car, and have just taken your picture.”

  30. Ymarsakar Says:

    It would be a blessing if terrorists realized that the wanton murder of innocents and torture of same are wrong. Such a change would be an enormous blessing not just for the rest of us, but for the terrorists themselves.

    It would be a blessing if the hearts of terrorists could be exploded with the snap of a finger.

  31. J. Peden Says:

    The left thinks all religious people must be hate filled bigots because they do not understand that simple point [~right to protect and defend].

    I think the Left thinks that because the Left are made up of hate filled bigots. [projection or else that’s just their very nature?]

    That free-will thing really make ’em blow their stack, too. They don’t seem to actually know what it is, but instead do recognize it viscerally as a significant threat which must be destroyed, almost just as any other paradigmatic bigot or racist would react to “the other” – almost, except that, again, I think such people also recognize the very real inherent power differential between the two types of hominids as well.

    To Progressives it’s a matter of survival, which they in turn have made it for “the other”/us, too. Progressives don’t want tolerance and coexistence. They are the ones who not only want, but actually need to dominate.

  32. Ymarsakar Says:

    Class warfare is a useful tool to divide and conquer a society from the inside out. There are other ways to destabilize a society but class warfare remains in the last century the best.

    Also, Peden, the psychology of how rumors spread is relevant to this topic. Many people spread rumors about people they envy and want to take down a notch. Sarah Palin is one example, Hollywood celebrities another.

    People believe in such rumors because they want those rumors to be true. THey want to feel that these people that have so much more than them can fall so quickly. Human beings are more interested in negative news than positive news, for evolution tends to place a higher importance on thinking about dying than thinking about having fun.

    THe Left is such a gigantic Jonestown, however, that their dogma becomes all the stuff they spew out as rumor, make believe, and fear mongering. It has gotten to the point where the Left and the Democrats no longer even know what is true or not. THey just know what they are told: like Obama voters that think Sarah Palin said there were 57 states.

  33. Ymarsakar Says:

    That thing about free will is especially pernicious. If people have free will, then they would normally choose happiness over suffering. However, for the Left to gain and maintain power, cruelty and misery must become the watchwords of the day. People must be made to suffer so as to fuel the class warfare requirement. If you gave people a chance to choose, J, then they might choose to dump you and your ideology. We can’t have that.

    Z-Man (PBUH) said it best in that freedom of choice and worship is a slap against the power of Allah. It is a great sin to be able to choose to reject Allah. Just as it is a great sin to be able to choose to reject Leftism.

    You will be cast out, as Lieberman was. You will be ostracized. They will destroy your character at their whim. THey will use government powers to check your background and spread the location information of your children and family.

    You cannot be allowed to accept an alternative to what they are offering. They will make you a deal you cannot refuse.

  34. Jamie Says:

    Indeed yes, Kirk – one reason I landed in the Episcopal church was that willingness to live in tension. But in practice, as I said, I’m frequently disappointed by the lip service paid to simultaneous tolerance of many views while in fact enforcing a single (and very, very prog) one.

  35. Ymarsakar Says:

    Which is a good thing that we have the guns and the killing skills and they don’t.

    They’ll need something like it if they really want to force their policies and ideology on the rest of us.

    Certainly the Left has disarmed their cannon fodder to the point where that cannon fodder does whatever those people want. Government dependence and fear will do that to a population.

  36. harry McHitlerburtonstein Says:

    Another bumper sticker for Artfidgr:

    “If you have just finished reading this, you are now eligible for Medicare…”

  37. Gray Says:

    Wishing all people happiness helps counteract the effects in me of anger.

    Oh, then anything is OK:

    Shopping helps counteract the effects in me of anger. Sex with strangers helps counteract the effects in me of anger. Smoking helps counteract the effects in me of anger.

    The American Buddhists are the most self-centered people I’ve ever met–trying to obtain nirvana by crawling inside of their own asses

    and then feeling superior ‘cuz they are the only ones in there…. Usually…

  38. FredHjr Says:

    One can be a peaceful person and still be a person who can, when necessary, bring lethal violence upon threats and enemies who would do tremendous harm upon the community or one’s country. And here’s the kicker: I may have a right to not fight back if my own life hangs in the balance, but I have no right to let other people’s lives be in the hazard because I’m too stuck in my own rectitude. And even with respect to my own life, if I have children, a spouse, and others depending upon me to live, work, and be with them depriving them of what I daily bring to them because I’m stuck in a pacifistic mindset is not being responsible. I think it’s pretty selfish.

    When one is not clear about what the real moral perils are, then one’s reactions to them will usually be absurd.

    In the normal course of human interactions, usually the wiser course is to not escalate hostilities. In other words, pettiness and vindictiveness tends to make matters worse. And not just for you. Whenever possible, dial it down. In rare cases the issues will be worth fighting about. But my experience in life is that most things people fight about are really stupid and not worth it. A wise and moral person knows where and when to draw the line.

  39. br549 Says:

    The God of Christians, the God of Jews, the God of Muslims is the same God.

    From where does the problem arise?

    I can’t believe no one has said it’s God’s fault. But I assume that is coming too. So far, it’s only the belief in God by lesser humans than the lefty elite and otherwise “smelly Americans” (Dingy Harry) that are the problem.

  40. Tom the Redhunter Says:

    The “coexist” bumper stickers are about the most idiotic. But the “God bless the whole world; No Exceptions,” which I have seen where I live, run a close second.

    The latter is not just a shot at “God Bless America,” but at the entire idea that one culture or nation is superior to any other.

    These are the same folks who display “Arms are for Hugging” and “It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.”

    To these people, anyone who blames any aspect of Islam for terrorism is a “hater.” They’d stop their attacks if only we loved them more, sent foreign aid, cut back on our military spending… you know the drill.

  41. Scottie Says:

    Has anyone else noticed this?

    People with right leaning types of political bumper stickers tend to have only 1 or 2 at most.

    People with left leaning types of political bumper stickers more often tend to have 3, 4, or 5 slapped on the back of their vehicle.

    I’m not talking about stickers such as “My kid is an honors student at ______”, or USMC or NRA or “Soccer Mom” bumper stickers – I’m talking specifically about political bumper stickers.

    Wonder if our lovely and gracious host could provide some commentary on why that’s the case, and perhaps some insight in the minds of the left that they feel the need to have so much verbage slapped onto their bumpers?

  42. br549 Says:

    Artfldgr:

    You are speaking (in the middle of an earlier post concerning Russia and countries in S.A.) of “Red Dawn” the movie, becoming “Red Dawn” in real life.

    That’s a natural course for communism to take, don’t you think? Even Canada isn’t ready to go full blown socialist / communist, so it’s not a problem – yet. Mexico is too close so it would be squashed long before enough momentum could be gained. Even C.A. is too close yet. Or at least it was on Reagan’s watch. Cuba is but a thorn. We flaunt our power over them with a permanent base on their property. Until Obama, and other highly intelligent lefties, close it.

    South America is the perfect distance away. They can win over the folks, supply them with weapons, train them to hate America until a frenzy, and then they can just walk right up here from there. A relatively cheap army of disposable pawns.

    A book was recently written, called “America Alone”. I’ve been meaning to purchase and read it. The way things are progressing, the title may need to be changed to “Right Wing America Alone” or similar.

    Day by day, this scenario comes closer. I used to think perhaps I was a bit off my rocker thinking this was how things are shaping up. Naaaaaa………

  43. J. Peden Says:

    THe Left is such a gigantic Jonestown, however, that their dogma becomes all the stuff they spew out as rumor, make believe, and fear mongering. It has gotten to the point where the Left and the Democrats no longer even know what is true or not.

    Amen, Ymar. In their manipulability and flight from reality, they’ve got so much garbage going on upstairs that you’d think being a Psychotherapist is going to make a new class of the super rich. neo might even quit blogging!

    I’m not joking, mostly: Progressivism is a progressive disease.

  44. J. Peden Says:

    Back when I first got on the Internet ~11 years ago, I immediately began to really notice all manner of defective thinking going on amongst the Left. So I coined the term “the Liberal defect” to summarize it. First it seemed to involve any kind of formal or informal defects in logic, failures in scientific reasoning and methods, and lack of common sense.

    But now the psychoderangements have entered in big time. It’s beginning to look like a progressive devolution back toward the reptilian brain, if they last that long. And if we last that long.

  45. harry McHitlerburtonstein Says:

    Scottie:
    “Has anyone else noticed this?…People with left leaning types of political bumper stickers more often tend to have 3, 4, or 5 slapped on the back of their vehicle.”

    Out here they can cover most of the car’s surface excepting for windows and windscreens. We also have a crew that stands outside the local courthouse every day and have done so since we invaded Afghanistan. They’re “witnesses for peace”, which to me has as much relevance as their bumperstickers.

  46. nyomythus Says:

    to no purpose but their own nihilistic yearnings and their desire to punish infidels and strike fear into the hearts of anyone associated with the West.

    One of the intentions of the Mumbia terror attacks might have been to re-define the struggle from “between extremists and moderates” to a struggle “between have’s and have nots”

    India still have a practices a brutal caste system that remains unpermeated by the country’s secular democracy.

  47. Artfldgr Says:

    br549, From where does the problem arise?

    From the faulty thinking that if we get the right form, and the others dont, then we are the ones that win/succeed/enter heaven/etc. if we prove that our faith is so strong it becomes sureness and so we need to prove that we are the ones that god would value more if we are allowed into his kingdom.

    note that the vast majority of believers do not believe that the form is worth killing each other over since ultimately its unknown and only faith can support which is the one that a person is being so sure about.

    but this too is a misrepresentation of faith… faith is not the same as being sure, if your sure, then you dont need faith… so they fail on this basic little nuance from the get go…

    faith is more humble than that, it cant be sure, since its precisely to be used when one is not sure. however faith is to support someone who is unsure, not make someone sure of an option against all others. at least if you can understand dictionary definitions…

    i always marvel at the number of “believers” that dont get this. even atheists need equivalent faith of this wrong kind to support a thesis that by definition is not supportable. either way, there is no way to support the arguments (and some find that pretty quirky in itself).

    If i have real faith, then i have to recognize that there is no proof and that i have to make an effort to keep faithful and not give up and act as if nothing is there.

    this is why religious people tend to do better.. their practice in religious faith increases their perseverance with potentials and so they get more out of their efforts than a peroson who plants a seed and loses interest before it sprouts.

    another thing is that faith reduces stress in uncertain times… but not by granting false surity, but by giving you a form of support in that you prop up the things that help you succeed. you have faith in god, yourself, the sitution, the outcome, and even faith that you can handle the negative outcome…

    I guess we have kind of lost this… its a llife thing thats part of religion, not a religious thing that is a part of life… religion seems to build up the ability and so, like a muscle, give a better perspective to harmonize with what is often a brutal and painful life between pleasures both real and empty.

    this is why the positive religions as we practice them are positive… bhuddists too are practicing faith… if christianity is free weights, bhuddism is a bowflex, and judaism is a weight station.

    even socialism is a form of faith practice, since the majority that side with it do so through practicing faith, as they cant work out the validity or invalidity of it the way that smarter people can..

    and since there are no smarter people in the world since we are blank slates, its all about power, not merit – so if they are telling me something i dont know, they are lying and they dont know either. welcome to what the impenetrable fog is made out of.

    this is why marxists seek to get rid of religion… rather than let people build healthy from their natural systems, they seek to replace real bones with rawhide bones. when we have nothing real to chew on, we will chew on the only thing offered to us. when there is nothing else, then what we have will be regarded as great, as there is nothing else to compare to…

    we dont believe in faith, they know its key, and so we are defenseless.

    like religious zealots the useful idiots of the left make the same religious faith mistake.. and why they resonate with the religious that do this…

    they have to have faith to the point of surity to be willing to hurt so many to save them and the world…

    they too are on a religious mission like the crusads, but we dont see it because they dont fill their time with prayer… but if you pay attention, they do… candlight vigils, meetings with singalong songs… the cargo cult form of religion is there.

    the same way that they believe hitler is not a socialist… they believe that religion has to require a god, and its not about ritual and faith, and who you put your trust in is actually worthy of that.

    the movement teaches false faith and they are so scared of not being sure, of really feeling alive with all its fears of not knowing tomorrow, makes them so anxious they want nihilism and security and predictability… (and this anxiety is worse the more media they watch without facing the real world and risking its challenges and failures).

    this is getting to ephemeral… (and long)

    somewhere in there i hope there is a good answer to what you wanted to understand… if not, at least i hope you enjoyed it.

  48. Artfldgr Says:

    br549,

    red dawn is a farce… but that doesnt mean that we wont keep walking forward into it thinking we are walking away from it.

    as strong as we are we are also very weak… it all depends on what some other nation or nation group things that they can actually accomplish then actually try.

    the thing is whether its going to be in fighting or a wimper quiet coupe when things are so far along the metrosexuals will just give them the key to the city.

    but be warned… the reason things are shaping up this way is because of the demographics of the next 100 or so years…

    russia being the most desperate kid on the block.. .the most natural resources, and a population shrinking so fast that they are not going to have enough to defend themselves and keep their eastern area from china if china wanted it..

    its only nuclear missiles that probably keep china from using the extra 30 million men it has of fighting age…

    yes that number is correct… its such a high number that even without being well equiped they will be very hard to handle…

    we are a lot more vulnerable than anyone publicly lets on…

    we sit and think iran cant hurt us if it makes a nuclear weapon… but maybe it can hurt europe..

    well, lets set the record straight… a nuclear weapon is not a huge thing… its even smaller when its not attached to a huge rocket.

    it can be transported in a pickup truck…

    so rocket delivery against defenses is the only way that the average joe sees them working…

    but more tactically savvy can imagine them putting it in a cargo ship container…

    one can bring a ship to the 200 mile limit pretending to fish, and then float the thing up into the air with weather balloons… the emp pulse would knock out everything chip based and running over a whole seaboard..

    if drug smugglers can bring in several tons of cocaine in one shipment… and they cna use planes as they do… then they can get close enough with a nuclear weapon..

    worse… deliverered that way… there is no way to tell who sent the letter…

    so it all depends on who has what, who is willing to do what… what they think is worth risking to gain… etc.

    bout the only thing that you can be sure of is that those who are playing in the game have a heightened sense of reality. they believe to the point that they believe they can get what they are setting out to, and damn the rest of us…

    no way to know… not from our armchair position…

  49. Artfldgr Says:

    mumbai was to start a war conflict and suck the US into the conflict, or make the US look bad for refusing to and then be blamed for the outcome.

    that while a dozen other things are going on…

    heads are rolling in mexico… literally…

    and some things are coming over the border…

    when chavez gets his weapons factories finished and opened things will get more interesting…

    that is unless the russians dropped off some weapons while visiting with their warships…

    buckle up, its going to be a rough ride…

  50. Bugs Says:

    Buddhist do, in fact, pray for the enlightenment of all sentient beings – including terrorists. This “blessing” would express the hope that they – and everyone – will discover the Noble Eightfold Path and, by following it, escape from the endless round of suffering and death in which they – and we – are trapped.

    This isn’t the same as wishing the terrorists well. On the contrary, it is understood that karma – the law of cause and effect – will inevitably make their lives ugly, painful and short, and enlightenment that much harder for them to attain. As they sow, so shall they reap…

  51. nyomythus Says:

    Bugs, the heavens, it can be claimed, share a special adoration with those who reject enlightenment … as long as this warrant exist, it will be with us, and so it will be with us for a long time to come … we can thank superstition for this gift to humanity.

  52. br549 Says:

    What I had planned on driving at, Atrtfldgr, is that Christ’s grave is empty. No bones, an empty grave. He rose from the dead. He ascended into Heaven. That’s pretty significant as far as having faith goes.

    I know red dawn was a b.s. movie. Who doesn’t. But we ARE becoming surrounded. Even in our own neighborhoods. Like I said, I used to think I was off my rocker thinking it was actually happening. There are many who think I am for believing it is slowly becoming so. But it is becoming so.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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