Whatever Caroline wants, Caroline gets?
It came as a surprise to me to hear that Caroline Kennedy is pushing to be appointed as the replacement for New York Senator Hillary Clinton.
I had always been under the impression that Caroline was a quiet and retiring sort, eschewing the public limelight for the more private joys of literature and the arts, philanthropy, and above all family. She was also a person who had learned only too well the perils of political fame. She seemed to step into an official role only reluctantly and intermittently, although with her lineage she could easily have run for office long ago.
Welcome to the new Caroline. Except for her name and her law degree, she appears to lack any particular qualifications for the job, although it must be said that she is a bona fide New Yorker, unlike her late-arrival predecessor Hillary or earlier relative and NY Senator Bobby Kennedy.
Does her lack of experience matter? As Roland Martin points out, Hillary had similarly meager qualifications when she first sought the same office. What Martin fails to mention is that Hillary ran for Senator in an election. It was up to the people to decide if her experience was suitable. An appointment is different, however. That decision is up to one person, not the electorate.
In New York, the situation is compounded by the fact that Governor Paterson himself, the man doing the appointing, only came to be governor because of the wrongdoings of his predecessor, Eliot Spitzer. Paterson, however, already had a long history of elective office in the state, even before being elected Lieutenant Governor and then succeeding Spitzer to the governorship.
There is a certain hubris to the Caroline Kennedy request, an idea that she somehow should not have to pay her political dues at all. Is there a precedent for this? If one looks at previous recent appointees to the Senate—which are quite numerous, by the way—there are at least a few.
If you look at the chart at the link, you will see that most appointees to the Senate have the expected and customary political chops. The list is replete with members of Congress, state legislators, mayors, and the like. But interspersed are several spouses (or other family members) of deceased Senators, and most of these appointees had never held elective office before (Jean Carnahan is a well-known and recent example; Muriel Humphrey is an earlier one I had forgotten).
This seems to be the closest precedent to the Caroline Kennedy caper. Of course, Caroline is not the spouse of Hillary Clinton, nor is Hillary deceased. So the analogy is a very poor one. But the similarity is that Caroline is part of one of the largest and strongest political dynasties in the United States, in which the most influential present member—Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts—does indeed appear to be dying. Thus, her desire to be Senator may reflect more of an intent to replace him than to replace Hillary, and if so her appointment would fit roughly in the traditional mold.
Does this make it a good idea? I actually think Caroline would be up to the task. She’s a smart woman, and I would guess that she is politically astute, based on what she’s observed in her life. But the whole idea of governors appointing Senators sticks in my craw (and that was even before the Blogajevich fiasco), and the appointment of Caroline would be an enormous stretch—almost to the breaking point of what’s reasonable. I’m not a New Yorker anymore, but if I were I would welcome a special election, especially for an office as important as Senator.
Will Caroline be appointed? Sounds as though she’s the current front-runner. It also sounds as though she got the politics bug recently, now that her kids are grown or almost-grown.
And speaking of kids, this is the way I remember her:
Appointing Caroline Kennedy to the Senate would be an outrage, in my view, not to mention a bitter personal disappointment: just when I thought the that misbegotten clan was finally leaving American politics, along comes another one…
I’m on record teasing that some of the Kennedys appear a bit intellectually dense, and the rest appear completely dense.
However, I’ve always looked for reasons to like Caroline, and I’ve little doubt she is capable of being an excellent Senator. She’s as least as capable as Pelosi and Reid. The job is about shrewdness and wisdom and principles and values. I expect she has good capabilities in all those areas – even if her principles and values in some areas are different from mine.
Three things:
1. From here, New York has always seemed parochial in the extreme. New York seems as big or bigger home town and local person boosters as any community in America.
2. From here, New York seems excessively worshipful of celebrity.
3. What of the scads of Americans/media/commentators who scorned Sarah Palin’s lack of “experience”? Is that quibble thrown out the window regarding the Senate?
Giving her the Senate seat is no different than giving Blago’s wife the cushy job he was asking for.
Political payback.
After all the noise about Palin, I thought experience was really really important. If Gov is not good enough for VP… then what does she have in her past to be good enough for the Senate?
the kennedies (like other ruling groups) are a dynasty… like the rothschilds, a dynasty can accomplish more than just a group of people becuase they are bound by more than just a transient goal. (which is why the power people ie. left, hates families, they are THE source of civilizing that would change things for the better, which means they would be out).
not only does the dynastic family have the ability to collude, plan, and plot.. they are also immune to the laws against such given that they can meet at will, and meeting can never be a cause to investigate.
they also have time to grow roots that span generations, and have wide ranging implications.
given the historical fact of ted kennedy asking the kgb for advice in how to beat a certain opponent, their roots and willingness to be pragmatic to win should be legendary.
caroline gets what caroline wants because carolines family is old, and very well situated to cause all manner of trouble. not to mentoin they have pretty much all world leaders on speed dial.
and in the world of power… access is more important than money… people think money is power… maybe all those movies with other propaganda are wrong, just maybe…
a man who is broke and has access and many connections can literally shake the world and get arrested for vagrancy.
a man who wins a half billion in the lottery, is impotent.
by the way..
two nuclear powers are squaring off and moving troops with a third wanna be moving their troops to make a two fronter (and potentially grab a nuke), and yet… nothing in the news.
also… the totalitarian state is changing its direction back to its old ways (something that we in the west fail to understand. whatever way it is in such a state, is a matter of choice, and progress in one direction is meaningless, as it can be taken away at will with no opposition)
critical of the state.. its treason..
treason trials will not have juries..
presidency has just been extended.
bolivia threw out our ambasadors
and chavez, and putin have teamed up to restrict oil and have dumped the dollar as a usable currency. (if the other countries in the world do so, you may find every dollar you ahve worthless)
so you may find that we might ahve no choice but to be slaves soon.. then again.. maybe not. no way to tell is there?
dont forget the breakins to the world bank computers, the penetration of the pentagon, as well as a bunch of other things…
times like this i wish i had a dome on the moon.
On learning this, my golden retriever wants to throw his …uh…collar into the ring too.
It seems there are quite a few people — even on the Democratic side of the aisle who are none too pleased with this — what it says about class and “entitlement,” not to mention cronyism.
She may be fairly bright. Afterall, she went to Brown, completed law school (well, I guess maybe that’s not necessarily a good thing) and she’s written a couple books, ahem, with “partners” (shadow writers?) (I have to admit I am not sure any of these things would have been achieved if her surname had been Smith, or Goldberg, or Diaz.
Just lifelong privilege and extreme wealth, and accident-of- birth: Caroline wakes up at midlife and decides she wants to be a U.S. Senator — especially when she doesn’t have to be elected. Her best asset is her maiden name; it also ensures that anybody she calls to lobby will pick up the phone!
Personally, I really think Andrew Cuomo has earned the seat (and as the MSM reminds the world that he divorced a Kennedy (How dare he?!) they don’t remind folks that Kerry Kennedy had affair on him and left him. Oh that Kennedy aura. I’m no Democrat, but being practical, I know Govt. Patterson is only going to appoint a member of his party (in between adding his new NYS taxes to non-diet soda (a new “obesity” tax), haircuts, coloring, and manicure services at barbers and salons (huh?), even iPod taxes on music downloads,and now movie taxes — a ticket isn’t already enough!)
Anyway, back to Cuomo – there’s no question that he was regarded highly and praised for his work as a Cabinet member in the Clinton Administration, and it is said that he is doing a great job as Attorney General here in New York. He, too, is a descendant of a notable Dem and has actually lived the life of a public servant.
Ugh! as I write, there’s clip on TV of Caroline shaking hands “on the stump” and telling people that she was a lawyer (not that she never practiced), wrote a book on the Constitution, and raised her family.
Ugh! as I write, Ed Koch appears as news to opine. He can’t rave enough: “just look at the family she comes from! They’ve devoted their lives to public service. Just think of what’s in her DNA!!!!!” (OK. maybe he’s officially in dementia). If one were really to study all those Kennedy cousins connected by their DNA, accomplishment and achievement won’t be that which stands out) Caroline, having chosen extreme privacy until present — her undeniable right — hass us knowing virtually nothing about her… a blank slate, if you will.. Let’s see, a lawyer, no discernible accomplishments….. Hired consultants to tell her what to tell us about her. Sound familiar? (oh, she did recently help Obama choose Joe Biden for Barack’s V.P. choice — that was a winner, wasn’t it! I think the Obama camp must have stowed him wherever they had Wright locked up for remainder of campaign. Has anyone heard a peep from him since election day?)
Sorry to say it looks like it might be a done deal. Ted Kennedy (another one w/ all that DNA and the scruples of a drunk who drove his car into a lake leaving his gal pal to drown….) is dying. This would leave no Kennedys in elected office. Uh-oh. And we know Ted became Barack’s new best friend by endorsing him, choosing him to replace him at speaking engagements when he fell ill. Now, lo & behold, Caroline emerged from her cocoon. When she stood up to publicly endorse Barack Obama, she made sure that we knew it was “because [her] kids talked her into it!”
(Just what I want — U.S. legislators taking instruction from their kids. But then again, it could be an explanation as to why those guys on Capitol Hill behave as they do……?
Face it, this is a done deal. Gov. Patterson will abide by the President-Elect’s request to appoint her as a thank you. The President-Elect will support Gov. Patterson financially and with personal appearances when the Gov. runs in his first election. Meanwhile, Caroline is presently finding out what up-State NY looks like. Too bad Caroline can’t visit during the Spring, Summer or Fall when up-State NY is so beautiful. But I am sure she brought extra sweaters.
Wow. She’s perfect! /sarc
God I’m depressed…
I’m throwing my support to my golden retriever. Better personality, better bred, better breath. That’s his campaign slogan.
Caroline Kennedy sounds inevitable. Embrace the suck!
huxley, are you saying my beloved golden retriever is the dark dog candidate?
Maybe he should see Caroline’s offer to Paterson and raise it by some kibble and a couple of slobbery tennis balls. Let the best man or man’s best friend win!
Occam’s Beard,
What are your golden retriever’s chances? The thought of going to New York, one of whose senators is a golden retriever makes me feel very happy.
By the way, who said Caroline Kennedy’s family was old? Well, I suppose everybody’s family is old but it did not exactly appear on anybody’s horizon until the old gangster, woops, sorry, public servant, Joe became ambassador to Britain. And what a success that was. So that’s three generations of dubious public service.
I work with the peers in the House of Lords (research etc) and let me tell you: those who inherited their titles have a great sense of duty not entitlement. They do serve the country and get precious little in return. Sheesh!
Occam — Not to worry! I don’t see how a golden retriever can be a dark horse.
Max appreciates this grassroots support, which is surpising given what he habitually does on grass.
Helen, we’ve decided that Max will stay here in California and run for Barbara Boxer’s seat (which, if he’s running true to form, he will probably sniff, but that’s neither here nor there). We say, “Why not the best?” And let’s face it, a move from Barbara Boxer to Max is a big step up intellectually.
Come to think of it, we’d be better off if we replaced all 535 members of Congress with golden retrievers. At least they’d be lovable, and no less competent.
‘K. So I was born in ’68. I have no “Kennedy” memories or baggage.
Can you imagine how this looks to me?
Since when is a law degree required to hold public office? Specifically to be a senator?
Personally, I feel that she would be better qualified without a law degree.
And those vast expanses of gums! Ugh!
Occam’s Beard:
You won’t get any complaint from me.
Lots of great wit tonite! Thanks for much-needed laughs!
As it does to me, I think. Another dangerous trip down boomer memory lane. Another desperate attempt for the ‘most ethical’ generation to dictate the future.
This will not end well.
P.
This is truly horrifying to me. Our democracy is gone. We are now a monarchy. It must be something humans need to do. They need to worship rich celebrities and give them power. Well, we had a good run, but now it’s over.
Has Caroline Kennedy ever had a full time job? Has Obama? As a New Yorker I am furious at how stupid other New Yorkers are. They only care about celebrity and glamour, and I am putting my apartment on the market and leaving town. I’ve had it.
Julia —
Me too!
Caroline did not help Obama make choices for nothing. Of course the position is payment for services rendered, and strings are attached from both ends.
The large cities in this country, and the entire states of NY and CA will develop into our nation’s slums, more so than now. Perhaps all of New England. The only people who remain will be those unable to get out. Anyone who does not know that our government realizes this is not paying attention. There is no way that anything else can be but for misery to be spread equally among all citizenry, save the few super rich, government bureaucrats and the elected elite who honestly believe they are above the rest of us – those in “control” of what is now going on. It is also happening worldwide.
We are developing into a planet of producers, moochers, and looters. Atlas Shrugged has been spoken of a lot lately, on many blogs. Depending on the breadth and depth of a producer’s true character, (s)he / he will morph into either a looter or a moocher. Producers are thought of as fools and cash cows in this day and age. If you can’t beat ’em……..
I know someone else thought of this but was probably too circumspect to say it but it seems to me that Patterson appointing Kennedy is the blind leading the blind.
Ingrid the cat is three and a half years old, so she isn’t eligible for the Senate. However, she’d be an improvement on most of what we have now because at least she couldn’t do any harm.
Midge Decter once defined “Kennedyism” as the belief in rule by the attractive. Seems apt, eh? People like Caroline will tell you that their privilege brings responsibilities and don’t seem to be aware of the comeback, which is “what causes you to think that you’re entitled to all that privilege?”
Except for her name and her law degree, she appears to lack any particular qualifications for the job,
Neo, what differences between her and Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin?
Yes, it might be late but the supporters who are behind her for entering politics have some thing to say.
ye
Oh, Caroline Kennedy’s a sweetheart — let her be senator.
Neo,
I am personally sick and tired of all these “American dynasties.” The Clintons, the Bushes, the Kennedys… the whole lot of em.
We’re Americans. Period. Not oligarchical Europeans.
“Neo, what differences between her and Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin?”
I do believe that was the point, the ones on the left that were ranting about Palin having no experience are the ones doing this.
“By the way, who said Caroline Kennedy’s family was old? ”
There is a saying that is applicable here – in Europe 150 miles is a long way, in the US 150 years is old. Recall that the Kennedy family *is* an old powerful family by our terms, though as said they didn’t really hit the national scene until Prohibition.
“I work with the peers in the House of Lords (research etc) and let me tell you: those who inherited their titles have a great sense of duty not entitlement. They do serve the country and get precious little in return. Sheesh!””
Another difference is the way in which the families rose to power. Recall that in the US we started with *no* dynasties and ours are built upon the success of a ruthless individual who sought to amass wealth and power (Rockefeller is a perfect example) – that instills a VERY different direction than what the English system of Lords does.
she is simply following THE ONE. she’s smitten. It’s as simple as that.
Alex, Max hereby challenges Ingrid to a series of debates.
The epitome of that occurred when JFK Jr. flew into the drink. An AOL message board at the time was replete with bleatings about how we’d lost a “great leader,” although some with at least a tenuous grip on reality allowed he was a “great potential leader.”
Granted, JFK Jr. was a pretty boy, a born male model, but he was obviously as thick as a post (didn’t they ultimately resort to citing the logarithm of how many times he flunked the bar exam, so it didn’t sound so bad?), and with the judgment one would expect of any winner of a Darwin Award.
And yet many considered him Presidential timber. Amazing.
i did an aside for a reason…
which is more important.. that a kennedy gets another state job? or that we are not paying attention to a potential nuclear war, and the admitting of the totaltirians that they will remain totalitarians (and our enemy), even after we helped make them strong..
30 year reforms transform China, but not politics
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jUmlqgRvuynbhP8gZ1CYDf0-8g-wD9557MU00
Chinese Communist Party leader Hu Jintao, speaking in the same hall where his predecessors launched a free-market revolution 30 years ago, urged more economic reform Thursday but said it would not lead to Western-style democracy.
guys.. wake up… the chinese just said they are going to be totalitarians… the russians just reverted their laws to totalitarian… the russians and chavez have dumpped US currency.
if china and opec follows it may cost 10k to buy a loaf of bread like in wiemar germany just before a heavy mass movemetn leftist took the command of the state, and converted it to a leftist machine steam roller with a freind from russia.
does the machinations of a female kennedy in ny really matter in the scope of whats going on?
More than 6,000 party leaders and military officials politely applauded throughout his remarks laced with Marxist rhetoric. “The Internationale,” the anthem of socialism worldwide, was played at the end.
the decemberists open up with the international before obama went on stage.. national socialism died with hitler, INTERNATIONAL socialism has not died.. AND WAR IS HOW THEY MOVE IT… and india and pakistan are on the verge..
Despite the dramatic economic changes, China’s political system remains firmly in the control of the party, although calls for greater freedoms persist. Earlier this month, more than 300 lawyers, writers, scholars and artists circulated a public appeal, dubbed “Charter 08,” urging the party to loosen its 60-year monopoly on power and allow democratic reforms.
The government appears to have responded with a firm hand. One Chinese writer who signed the charter remains missing more than a week after police took him away, and more than three dozen others have reported harassment, according to the group Chinese Human Rights Defenders.
we did all this with our enemies so that they would cahnge… we made ourselves more communist under the idea that they would become more capitalist… but since they are totalitarians, they just change direction having no real need to regard the outcomes to their people, that which limits us, does not limit them…
guys… things are gearing up for a world war of the past kind… and no one is noticing…
Russia to donate 10 MiG fighter jets to Lebanon
Russia Plans to Test Obama, US Diplomat Says
Russia Hosts Nicaragua’s Ortega, Rekindles Soviet-era Alliance
Russia Speeds Up Ruble Depreciation
Defense Ministry official in Russia to thwart sale of 300 air defense systems to Iran
Russia to make dissent treason
hotair.com/archives/2008/12/18/russia-to-make-dissent-treason/
these giant enemies are converting back within one year undoing the past 30 years!!! and no one is noticing…
Under Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, people who fraternized with foreigners or criticized the Kremlin were “enemies of the people” and sent to the gulag. Now there’s new legislation backed by Vladimir Putin’s government that human rights activists say could throw Russia back to the days of the Great Terror.
The legislation, outspoken government critic and rights activist Lev Ponomaryov charged Wednesday, creates “a base for a totalitarian state.”
is caroline kennedy really that big a deal?
we are being intertained with a soap opera and we are not watching what the magicians other hand is doing!!!!
[how long before civil unrest in the US starts? within six months as the left starts screaming that they ahve been betrayed… (because their positions are mutually exclusive!), and start rioting with a little help from some agit prop, and active measures in the crowds?]
Rights-Watchers Say New Russian Treason Legislation Harkens Back To ’30s Terror
http://www.rferl.org/content/RightsWatchers_Say_New_Russian_Treason_Legislation_Harkens_Back_To_30s_Terror/1361242.html
and has anyone noticed that mexico is about to collapse? and chavez is making the weapons of urban warfare (sniper rifles, ak107s, and rpgs?) now that putin signed that agreement?
Lyudmila Alekseyeva, a veteran Russian rights campaigner with the Moscow Helsinki Group, says the new legislation would allow the authorities to interpret virtually any form of dissent as treason — a crime punishable by up to 20 years in prison. She says the legislation could be used to stem public unrest at a time of mounting economic instability.
“Food is getting more expensive; utilities are getting more expensive. When, in spite of the mounting crisis, all the burdens are placed on the shoulders of ordinary citizens, you don’t have to be a genius to guess that some unrest might occur,” Alekseyeva says. “We’re all extremists, all of us! If you’re a human being and you’re capable of holding a conversation, then you’re already an extremist, because you can say, ‘Yikes, gasoline has gotten more expensive’ — and there you go. You’re already against the government.”
in non crisis, it was easy to hide the true intents.. but in a crisis, they are letting out their true colors… because a crisis in a democracy leads to change in politics, and people… but in a totalitarian state, the people cant be permitted to change, they are the feudal lords who onw the people.
if you watch dog owners you might think that the dogs own them because they pick up their crap.
but, if you looked closer, you would find the real situation reversed, and that the owner could beat and kill or torture their charge at will…
the fact that an owner is nice or appears like your not owned, doesnt mean your now owned.
today they pick up your crap.
tomorrow, they let you know who the real boss is
all they are waiting for is that this change, is done in such a way that they get to keep everythign, rather than lose everything to an enemy moving in during the cahnge!!! or in upsetting us so much we clean house like sukarno did in indonesia.
We in the center and right of center need to hold ourselves to a standard of:
1) Pushing identity politics aside – Lefties had Bush hatred and today put such great hope and promise in a ‘man’ named Obama.
2) Focus on the issues and policies that we know will help ALL Americans – lefties have so much stake in group politics and really that is the wrong way to go.
We in the center and right of center need to appeal not to groups but ALL Americans based on some key principles. It should be about the ideas and principles.
Caroline Kennedy needs to state her qualifications and reasons to vote for her. What are her ideas? Is she willing to speak ideas contrary to Ted Kennedy?
JFK was a tax rate cutter and had a lot of language concerning helping the American economy and all americans with the tax rate decreases.
Will Caroline do the same?
It seems there are quite a few people – even on the Democratic side of the aisle who are none too pleased with this – what it says about class and “entitlement,” not to mention cronyism.
The Dems have never had a problem with cronyism. They pretended to have a problem with Bush because it seemed like a weakness to be exploited. The Dems are all out exploiting the weaknesses of poorer and weaker people.
We’re Americans. Period. Not oligarchical Europeans.
That’s not what the people who keep voting Dem says.
The hardest part of getting to be a senator are: 1. building enough name recognition to be able to raise the funds necessary to run for office, and 2) getting elected the first time. After that, the job is simply fundraising.
How could Caroline not be able to handle that job? She has nothing to do.
And given her name and her state, she could be twice as stupid as Pelosi or Boxer and she would never lose her seat.
Another difference is the way in which the families rose to power. Recall that in the US we started with *no* dynasties and ours are built upon the success of a ruthless individual who sought to amass wealth and power (Rockefeller is a perfect example) – that instills a VERY different direction than what the English system of Lords does. Best not to enquire too closely how some of those titles were acquired in the dim and distant past. But surely what matters is what they have done with it and are doing now. The Kennedys are not exactly 150 years in public service and their record is patchy, to put it mildly. Sheesh, I don’t know why I am arguing this. I ought to be pleased that after all this time America is becoming more aristocratic than Britain. 😉
I guess Princess Caroline isn’t a shoe in after all. She may need to pack up and go home. It may be if she becomes senator, it will be a forced issue. This could get interesting. How amny others are seeing a pattern?
I’m telling you, this election cycle is truly “different”. The dems want full control at any and all costs. Honesty, fairness, and the democratic process will not stand in their way.
Ah, Helen, I can clear up your confusion. The Kennedys haven’t been in public service, they’ve been servicing the public, in the Victorian sense.
But your point re aristocracy here is well-taken. At this rate, we’ll have a hereditary upper chamber just as Britain is moving away from its.
If she wants a senate seat, let her go to Massachusetts when “the time” comes. They’d welcome her with open arms.
I still can’t believe New Yorkers elected Hillary, knowing full well she was using them as a stepping stone for bigger and better things. She sure didn’t do anything for New York State.
Also, we should all try to look on the bright side of this. At least Al Capone didn’t have a daughter, so it could be worse. A bit, anyway.
She has about as much real-world experience as “The One”.
So, what’s the problem?
–
As with the Ponzi schemes, no problems at all… until disasters strike and it all comes falling down.
Caroline’s getting a lot of stick for her brief comments to the media, but I see her point:
“I wanted to come upstate and meet with Mayor Driscoll and others to tell them about my experience and also learn more about how Washington can help these communities,” Kennedy said.
Now how long could a meeting with that agenda possibly take? Sneeze and you’d miss it.
I saw a snippet tonight on the news. Someone asked her what kind of democrat she was – she spiraled down and the last one I heard her mention was Schumer. Up until that point I thought she might be tolerable. And I know this shouldn’t count for anything, but she looked worn and worn out.
If nothing else, the fact that we’re witnessing a controversy over this in the MSM– any controversy — is just indication that that “little” schism that appeared in the Democratic Party during the election cycle, was not little. And it wasn’t wiped away as all (ostensibly) united behind “The One.”
Awww,… I also think it’s a done deal, but I don’t mind a little fun watching the Dems. figure it out.
“Welcome to the new Caroline. Except for her name and her law degree, she appears to lack any particular qualifications for the job” Neo
This ‘qualification’ thing has come up often lately. Maybe it would be easier to consider the question if approached from the other way – What disqualifies an appointment?
Anyone in New York except for convicted felons, immigrants, etc., can be an appointed senator. Including Caroline Kennedy.
Unless she’s scary, of course. That would put a whole new light on the subject.
“Best not to enquire too closely how some of those titles were acquired in the dim and distant past. ”
Well, nearly all positions of power were once achieved through the application of focused violence – no real way around that. Sometimes – as in our revolution – the people doing it were benign and truly did it For The Cause (it’s rare that the people in power push a revolt, succeed in said revolt, and then turn power over to others). But still, most were not.
But then some of your families you are talking of have over a thousand years they can trace back – at the age even your “young” dynasties are at they are so far removed from the original family that it is mostly irrelevant how they got there with respect to how they currently act.
“But surely what matters is what they have done with it and are doing now.”
True.
‘The Kennedys are not exactly 150 years in public service and their record is patchy, to put it mildly. ”
Both yes and no – at a semi-public national level they are around 70-80 years and that is a fairly long time for us. Even then if you look at their family on a non-public term (what allowed them to amass the semi-public/public dynasty) then they easily reach into the 150 year family with deep ties through, hmm, both legitimate and illegitimate businesses. Without that they would not have been able to leverage prohibition to build their family wealth and overt power structure.
“Sheesh, I don’t know why I am arguing this. I ought to be pleased that after all this time America is becoming more aristocratic than Britain. ;-)”
Haha, between the Kennedy’s, Rockefeller’s, Vanderbilt’s, Bush’s, and Clinton’s it is amazing the amount of power (both political and/or monetary depending on the family in question) held by closely related individuals (that is, within a few families). Heck with the Clintons it is only within a very small group of individuals yet the amount of political power is astonishing – whether they will become a “dynasty” or simply a blip of a powerful single brancy of the family somewhat depends on Chelsea, we will see there.
You could list ten families and you would have 90+ percent of our wealth and political power/favors. In many of those cases no specific individual carries that much weight (say the Vanderbilts) but the family as a whole is massive. Not sure how that works out in real life – if their family is anything like mine then it means they are not coordinated and is just an interesting tidbit of information.
I’m not normally much on conspiracy theories and this is one, however like a number of said conspiracy theories I note it is interesting and pay some attention too it (Occam’s Razor is not proof and just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean people aren’t watching you). I figure in this case she is simply one removed from the president the largest voting block in the US (and especially NY) idolize and there is nothing more than that – not the first, nor will be it the last time. Heck she may even do a good job, it’s not a senator is really that hard of a job. In another 20 years the Kennedy name will not carry the same weight and she would have been ignored.
“We’re Americans. Period. Not oligarchical Europeans.”
Not any more…
Caroline is a member of the right tribes. She grew up liberal. She went to Brown. She has a law degree. She has name recognition. Those are the qualifications. Progressives trust people who come from their tribe, they are suspicious of others.
Some progressives are indeed worried about American nobility and dynasty, as their opposition to such things was what drew them into liberalism to begin with. Even most of those, however, will eventually support a Caroline Kennedy appointment and ultimately vote for her. They will be reluctant and apologetic about it, but the other candidate – no matter who it is – will just not seem to be the right sort, somehow. Her tribal qualifications will eventually assuage all reservations.
None of the discussion about experience or qualification has any meaning. It is just something for them to chat about on the way.
want to know how we miss things like 9/11?
we are too busy arguing about things like caroline and not at all paying attention to things like below.
or blago… or the other posts..
of course, when something happens, then everyone will THEN discuss it rather than before it happens.
right now we are too busy watching obama not be what he isnt. then getting all whooshed over a meaningless apointment… and perhaps blago.. and fairness doctrine..
and meanwhile… two nuclear states are squaring off… and a ship full of what appears to be radioactive material from iran…
and all we care about is what? our belly buttons..
[al queda has warned that there is a bigger 9/11 coming… and yet, we are distracted by the games of the election and are not paying attention to the magicians other hand]
from the times
Pirates die strangely after taking Iranian ship
http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/Article.aspx?id=851953
A tense standoff has developed in waters off Somalia over an Iranian merchant ship laden with a mysterious cargo that was hijacked by pirates.
Somali pirates suffered skin burns, lost hair and fell gravely ill “within days” of boarding the MV Iran Deyanat. Some of them died.
Andrew Mwangura, the director of the East African Seafarers’ Assistance Programme, told the Sunday Times: “We don’t know exactly how many, but the information that I am getting is that some of them had died. There is something very wrong about that ship.”
fox news picks it up too.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,430681,00.html
On Aug. 21, the pirates, armed with AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades, stole onto the decks of the merchant vessel Iran Deyanat.
They ransacked the ship and searched the containers. But in the days following the hijacking, a number of them fell ill and died, suffering skin burns and hair loss, according to reports.
The pirates were sickened because of their contact with the seized cargo, according to Hassan Osman, the Somali minister of Minerals and Oil, who met with the pirates to facilitate negotiations.
“That ship is unusual,” Osman told the Long War Journal, an online news source that covers the War on Terror. “It is not carrying a normal shipment.”
Two things here, for that “smart” who thinks with his nonnces with a world jsut Right and left nonnces, take story from your right then:
Alaska state troopers have arrested the mother of Bristol Palin’s boyfriend on drug charges.
Artfldgr:
Pirates die strangely after taking Iranian ship
This is nver been new with Iranains along the history.
They are masters in this sort, the deats