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	<title>Comments on: The city is too much with us</title>
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		<title>By: br549</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98735</link>
		<dc:creator>br549</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98735</guid>
		<description>There are a lot of answers to the observation. It is interesting to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are a lot of answers to the observation. It is interesting to read.</p>
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		<title>By: waltj</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98643</link>
		<dc:creator>waltj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98643</guid>
		<description>OK, Neo, I&#039;ll be your dissenting voice.  I&#039;ve lived in cities, rural areas, and small towns, and I&#039;ll take cities, hands down.  I enjoy the numerous activities that are available in cities--restaurants, theaters, museums, professional sports venues, nightclubs--that you simply can&#039;t find in &quot;out in the country&quot;.  There&#039;s also a wider choice of doctors, dentists, hospitals, plumbers, roofers, etc., for those times when things don&#039;t go quite right.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, I like natural beauty and breathing fresh air, but I don&#039;t want to live there.  As a non-farmer, I found living in a rural area to be incredibly boring, more so since I&#039;m a lifelong bachelor.  If I had had to work the fields, it would have been a different story, but having to walk a half mile to the nearest neighbor or drive a dozen or so miles to the nearest town in order to see another person just didn&#039;t do it for me.  Yes, it was relaxing, but I can only gaze at the mountains, fields, rivers, etc., for so long.  (I hunt and fish, BTW, and don&#039;t find those activities boring at all.  But I can&#039;t do them all the time).  

In the two small towns I&#039;ve lived in, I found my neighbors to be nice, but a little too concerned about my business.  It&#039;s a cliche, I guess, but I found it to be true in my case.  I travel a lot for work, which they found odd all by itself, but asked me so many personal questions that at times I felt I was being interrogated rather than having a friendly conversation.  They were always especially curious as to why I was in my mid-30s at the time, obviously straight, and &quot;still single&quot;.  The correct answer--that I simply had no interest in getting married--never occurred to them.  The towns themselves had very limited offerings in terms of restaurants, and nightlife, well, forget it.  

Unlike Bulgarian or Chinese peasants, I make the choice of urban life freely, and know what I&#039;m getting myself into.  I haven&#039;t had my family plot bulldozed or been forced into a massive Socialist Modern-style apartment by the secret police.  I just prefer urban life, and don&#039;t feel particularly stressed by my choice.  The large foreign city I currently call home has its share of problems, most of which have been noted in Neo&#039;s posting and the comments, but its share of compensations as well.  The compensations are what keep me a city boy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Neo, I&#8217;ll be your dissenting voice.  I&#8217;ve lived in cities, rural areas, and small towns, and I&#8217;ll take cities, hands down.  I enjoy the numerous activities that are available in cities&#8211;restaurants, theaters, museums, professional sports venues, nightclubs&#8211;that you simply can&#8217;t find in &#8220;out in the country&#8221;.  There&#8217;s also a wider choice of doctors, dentists, hospitals, plumbers, roofers, etc., for those times when things don&#8217;t go quite right.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I like natural beauty and breathing fresh air, but I don&#8217;t want to live there.  As a non-farmer, I found living in a rural area to be incredibly boring, more so since I&#8217;m a lifelong bachelor.  If I had had to work the fields, it would have been a different story, but having to walk a half mile to the nearest neighbor or drive a dozen or so miles to the nearest town in order to see another person just didn&#8217;t do it for me.  Yes, it was relaxing, but I can only gaze at the mountains, fields, rivers, etc., for so long.  (I hunt and fish, BTW, and don&#8217;t find those activities boring at all.  But I can&#8217;t do them all the time).  </p>
<p>In the two small towns I&#8217;ve lived in, I found my neighbors to be nice, but a little too concerned about my business.  It&#8217;s a cliche, I guess, but I found it to be true in my case.  I travel a lot for work, which they found odd all by itself, but asked me so many personal questions that at times I felt I was being interrogated rather than having a friendly conversation.  They were always especially curious as to why I was in my mid-30s at the time, obviously straight, and &#8220;still single&#8221;.  The correct answer&#8211;that I simply had no interest in getting married&#8211;never occurred to them.  The towns themselves had very limited offerings in terms of restaurants, and nightlife, well, forget it.  </p>
<p>Unlike Bulgarian or Chinese peasants, I make the choice of urban life freely, and know what I&#8217;m getting myself into.  I haven&#8217;t had my family plot bulldozed or been forced into a massive Socialist Modern-style apartment by the secret police.  I just prefer urban life, and don&#8217;t feel particularly stressed by my choice.  The large foreign city I currently call home has its share of problems, most of which have been noted in Neo&#8217;s posting and the comments, but its share of compensations as well.  The compensations are what keep me a city boy.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim P</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98628</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98628</guid>
		<description>An interesting tangential point to my earlier comment about Calhoun&#039;s rat experiment and how it reflects on human behavior.

In rural Alaska, where you have a very small widely dispersed population in a natural setting, you find extreme crime, violence and suicide. (The statistics reflect it and having lived in the bush myself for nine years I saw it)

Especially among the young. While on its face this seems to fly in the face of inferred conclusions about overcrowding such as were made about Calhoun&#039;s famous experiment, it seems that there are other contributing factors.

Just as green belts in urban zones can mitigate some of those effects as Neo said above, I think certain elements of our &#039;urban culture&#039; produce a profound psychic dissonance even in an so called idyllic setting.

While true enough that remote isolated settings, such as a small bush village might be likened to living on a small island, where travel to anywhere else is a task and the  close proximity of your neighbors can sometimes become hard to deal with. This problem seems to have manifested itself only recently with the increased encroachment of the modern world, i.e. television, junk food, erosion of traditional culture and lifestyle, etc. (though not necessarily for everyone) Also, with the large influx of money and programs that did not exist until Alaska became awash in oil money. 

I&#039;d like to see a study on that. Probably never happen though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting tangential point to my earlier comment about Calhoun&#8217;s rat experiment and how it reflects on human behavior.</p>
<p>In rural Alaska, where you have a very small widely dispersed population in a natural setting, you find extreme crime, violence and suicide. (The statistics reflect it and having lived in the bush myself for nine years I saw it)</p>
<p>Especially among the young. While on its face this seems to fly in the face of inferred conclusions about overcrowding such as were made about Calhoun&#8217;s famous experiment, it seems that there are other contributing factors.</p>
<p>Just as green belts in urban zones can mitigate some of those effects as Neo said above, I think certain elements of our &#8216;urban culture&#8217; produce a profound psychic dissonance even in an so called idyllic setting.</p>
<p>While true enough that remote isolated settings, such as a small bush village might be likened to living on a small island, where travel to anywhere else is a task and the  close proximity of your neighbors can sometimes become hard to deal with. This problem seems to have manifested itself only recently with the increased encroachment of the modern world, i.e. television, junk food, erosion of traditional culture and lifestyle, etc. (though not necessarily for everyone) Also, with the large influx of money and programs that did not exist until Alaska became awash in oil money. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see a study on that. Probably never happen though.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim P</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98626</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98626</guid>
		<description>Nothing really new, as you probably know. I seem to recall &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John B. Calhoun&#039;s &lt;/a&gt;famous experiment (1962?) with rats and overcrowding.

&lt;blockquote&gt;In July 1968 four pairs of mice were introduced into the Utopian universe. The universe was a 9’ square metal pen with 54” high sides. Each side had four groups of four vertical, wire mesh “tunnels”. The “tunnels” gave access to nesting boxes, food hoppers, and water dispensers. There was no shortage of food or water or nesting material. There were no predators. The only adversity was the limit on space. Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315 after which the population growth dropped markedly. The last surviving birth was on day 600. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against. After day 600 the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones”.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing really new, as you probably know. I seem to recall <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun" rel="nofollow">John B. Calhoun&#8217;s </a>famous experiment (1962?) with rats and overcrowding.</p>
<blockquote><p>In July 1968 four pairs of mice were introduced into the Utopian universe. The universe was a 9’ square metal pen with 54” high sides. Each side had four groups of four vertical, wire mesh “tunnels”. The “tunnels” gave access to nesting boxes, food hoppers, and water dispensers. There was no shortage of food or water or nesting material. There were no predators. The only adversity was the limit on space. Initially the population grew rapidly, doubling every 55 days. The population reached 620 by day 315 after which the population growth dropped markedly. The last surviving birth was on day 600. This period between day 315 and day 600 saw a breakdown in social structure and in normal social behavior. Among the aberrations in behavior were the following: expulsion of young before weaning was complete, wounding of young, inability of dominant males to maintain the defense of their territory and females, aggressive behavior of females, passivity of non-dominant males with increased attacks on each other which were not defended against. After day 600 the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed “the beautiful ones”.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98569</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98569</guid>
		<description>When traveling by car, I prefer back roads or at least conventional highways.  As a practical matter, they add probably half to the time required if most of the trip can be taken on the expressways. Still, worth it.

I do not like large cities.  Had one guy from Chicago tell me that the bustle and hustle characteristic of the city, and, he suggested, of other large cities, is almost entirely people trying to get to work and back.  Their productivity is another issue.

Many years ago, I ran into a guy writing a paper on what was unique about Medal of Honor awardees.  I suggested small town origin. He did not quite sneer.  That was a given. Obvious.  He&#039;d done that and gotten into other issues less obvious.  But not, I think, less profound.

Tom Wolfe, writing about stock car racing, mentioned that the sponsors had been mining a mother lode of courage from West Virginia--I think he said WV--for drivers.  And that there were more Medal of Honor awardees from within twenty miles of Junior Johnon&#039;s back porch than from all of Manhattan.  I wouldn&#039;t know, but Wolfe is known for doing his homework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When traveling by car, I prefer back roads or at least conventional highways.  As a practical matter, they add probably half to the time required if most of the trip can be taken on the expressways. Still, worth it.</p>
<p>I do not like large cities.  Had one guy from Chicago tell me that the bustle and hustle characteristic of the city, and, he suggested, of other large cities, is almost entirely people trying to get to work and back.  Their productivity is another issue.</p>
<p>Many years ago, I ran into a guy writing a paper on what was unique about Medal of Honor awardees.  I suggested small town origin. He did not quite sneer.  That was a given. Obvious.  He&#8217;d done that and gotten into other issues less obvious.  But not, I think, less profound.</p>
<p>Tom Wolfe, writing about stock car racing, mentioned that the sponsors had been mining a mother lode of courage from West Virginia&#8211;I think he said WV&#8211;for drivers.  And that there were more Medal of Honor awardees from within twenty miles of Junior Johnon&#8217;s back porch than from all of Manhattan.  I wouldn&#8217;t know, but Wolfe is known for doing his homework.</p>
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		<title>By: Oblio</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98528</link>
		<dc:creator>Oblio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98528</guid>
		<description>I think the modern Democrats can&#039;t be understood without understanding metropolitan social anxieties about status, money, race and gender.  

At the same time, the work of the cities is dominated by the work of the Symbolic Analysts, people (like artists, lawyers, programmers, actors, media people, politicians, bankers, writers etc.) who manipulate symbols to make the living.  The mood of the crowd--social pressure--is felt with more immediacy and urgency than the weather.  &quot;What everyone knows&quot; and their feelings becomes the facts.  

These are the people who would elect a leader primarily for his symbolic meaning, and they are the people who will bitterly reject the idea that there is no substance to the symbols.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the modern Democrats can&#8217;t be understood without understanding metropolitan social anxieties about status, money, race and gender.  </p>
<p>At the same time, the work of the cities is dominated by the work of the Symbolic Analysts, people (like artists, lawyers, programmers, actors, media people, politicians, bankers, writers etc.) who manipulate symbols to make the living.  The mood of the crowd&#8211;social pressure&#8211;is felt with more immediacy and urgency than the weather.  &#8220;What everyone knows&#8221; and their feelings becomes the facts.  </p>
<p>These are the people who would elect a leader primarily for his symbolic meaning, and they are the people who will bitterly reject the idea that there is no substance to the symbols.</p>
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		<title>By: Us Vs. Them &#171; In Other Words</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98512</link>
		<dc:creator>Us Vs. Them &#171; In Other Words</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 03:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98512</guid>
		<description>[...] to Neo-Neocon for the link.  Explore posts in the same categories: Personal, domestic, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Neo-Neocon for the link.  Explore posts in the same categories: Personal, domestic, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dane</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98510</link>
		<dc:creator>dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98510</guid>
		<description>I used to travel a lot for work.  In fact I was regularly flying over 100K miles per year - United loved me.  Anyway - now I spend most of my time behind the keyboard Ip-ing into phone systems and letting others do the grunt work.  However if I have something within a 1.5 day drive I will do on-site work and when I go I travel the back roads of the south.  I love the small towns and their dynamic.  I wrote here a couple of months ago about how the crowding of cities (and the consequent loss of personal space) was the cause of much of the violence in urban areas.  I stand by that.  In rural America people can go out at night and see the stars.  Maybe that&#039;s part of being able to believe in something greater than humankind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to travel a lot for work.  In fact I was regularly flying over 100K miles per year &#8211; United loved me.  Anyway &#8211; now I spend most of my time behind the keyboard Ip-ing into phone systems and letting others do the grunt work.  However if I have something within a 1.5 day drive I will do on-site work and when I go I travel the back roads of the south.  I love the small towns and their dynamic.  I wrote here a couple of months ago about how the crowding of cities (and the consequent loss of personal space) was the cause of much of the violence in urban areas.  I stand by that.  In rural America people can go out at night and see the stars.  Maybe that&#8217;s part of being able to believe in something greater than humankind.</p>
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		<title>By: Recruiting Animal</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98507</link>
		<dc:creator>Recruiting Animal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98507</guid>
		<description>In the Conquest of Happiness, Bertrand Russell complained that people forced to live in the country were terribly bored. And, rich people came to the city for stimulation didn&#039;t they. So I wonder how true in all circumstances the claim that the city creates a lot of negative stress really is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Conquest of Happiness, Bertrand Russell complained that people forced to live in the country were terribly bored. And, rich people came to the city for stimulation didn&#8217;t they. So I wonder how true in all circumstances the claim that the city creates a lot of negative stress really is.</p>
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		<title>By: jon baker</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98504</link>
		<dc:creator>jon baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/08/the-city-is-too-much-with-us/#comment-98504</guid>
		<description>Have you ever looked to see where Obama won by COUNTY, not by State.  Note that in &#039;Red State&quot; Texas Obama won in the big cities and suprises, suprise, the border counties.   See link below: 

http://images.newsmax.com/misc/2008_Election_Map.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever looked to see where Obama won by COUNTY, not by State.  Note that in &#8216;Red State&#8221; Texas Obama won in the big cities and suprises, suprise, the border counties.   See link below: </p>
<p><a href="http://images.newsmax.com/misc/2008_Election_Map.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://images.newsmax.com/misc/2008_Election_Map.jpg</a></p>
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