May 5th, 2009

Roundup on Chrysler: where’s the outrage?

I keep thinking I’m cynical enough already, and can’t be surprised by politics and/or the MSM’s coverage of it any more. But I guess I still retain too much idealism, because the general lack of concern about the administration’s throwing out the usual rules regarding senior lenders in the Chrysler negotiations still has the power to surprise me.

There is no way this course of action can end up benefiting our economy, or even Chrysler. The only beneficiaries are the unions (at least, temporarily; if the company ends up failing, they will go down too), Obama’s standing with his supporters on the Left who are angry at “greedy capitalists” and want to stick it to them, and perhaps Fiat.

Obama has served notice: play ball with me or I’ll play hardball with you. The rules? Made for suckers, not for Obama.

While maintaining a facade of affability, Obama reigns by naked power and threats. His is an unusual combination, even for politicians; I can’t recall another president in my lifetime with a facade so at variance with his actual methodology.

But Obama’s effectiveness depends on that dichotomy, and on the public focusing on his smooth surface while ignoring his acts—or at least not understanding what they signify, which amounts pretty much to the same thing. Here’s a comment at National Review that puts it quite succinctly:

[Obama] has the knack of appearing moderate while acting radical, which is a lethal skill.

Lethal, that is, to what has made America so unique, so successful, and so protective of human liberty.

Not everyone is ignoring Obama and Chrysler, or singing his praises as the deity’s annointed (I kid you not; the linked article is only slightly tongue-in-cheek in its fulsome fawning). Some are as agitated as I am about the unprecendented Chrysler arrangement, and Obama’s dissing of the creditors.

First there’s Irwin M. Stelzer on the chilling effect Obama’s actions will have in the practical sense:

…[T]he president is counting on some of these “speculators” to partner with the Treasury and take a big stake in the toxic assets that are preventing the big banks from resuming normal lending. Unprotected by a rule of law, these investors will sit on their assets, rather than partner with a government that might some day decide, after the fact, that they made too much money, or should bear a larger portion of any losses than they had signed on to do.

Next we have Kevin Hasset:

All the government stops were being pulled out to present the United Auto Workers with a sweetheart deal that, incredibly, gives its retiree health-care fund majority ownership of Chrysler.

Yes, those are the same workers who pushed the firm toward bankruptcy in the first place with their extraordinarily generous compensation packages. DaimlerChrysler AG’s average cost to employ a UAW worker in 2006, including benefits, was 1.7 times that of Japanese automakers, according to company estimates.

Next comes Bill Frezza with some excellent questions:

Why would anyone lend money to heavily unionized companies knowing that if things went wrong, the president and his men could trash their security interests by executive decree, hold them up to public vilification, and subject them to future retribution by regulators?…

How is the Federal Government supposed to unwind its ownership in the growing number of companies it has nationalized if prospective buyers know that should things ever take a turn for the worse, Uncle Sam will be back demanding extralegal “sacrifice” in the name of “saving” jobs?

How is private credit supposed to “start flowing again” if the United States of America morphs into a caudillo-run kleptocracy whose explicit policy is to “empower the workers,” chasing ever higher poll numbers by demonizing the very people whose job it is to provide credit?

Why, and how, indeed. It seems to me that the importance of such questions should be obvious to anyone on either side, excepting of course the most rabid Leftists who are against private enterprise and favor a government takeover of the auto industry. But instead, we see very few in the MSM asking them.

Frezza makes a prediction:

The fate of Chrysler and its workers pale in comparison to the wrecking ball that would be taken to economic order if bankruptcy judge Arthur Gonzalez approves the administration’s plan to give Chrysler’s secured creditors the shaft. And what prize will we-the-people get in return? A doomed third-rate car company majority owned by its militant union run by Italian management building congressionally designed “green” cars no one wants to buy financed by taxpayers into perpetuity because no private investor in their right mind will touch the company with a ten foot pole. Is this supposed to be economic policy or comic opera?

I actually think that whatever Gonzalez may decide, Frezza’s description of the characteristics of a new Chrysler-Fiat is likely to be correct.

Meanwhile, it doesn’t look like Chrysler will ever be repaying its billions in government loans. But that’s okay, because:

…Robert Manzo, an executive director with the restructuring group Capstone Advisory Group LLC, said he doesn’t view the government financing as “free money.” “They’re offering financing with a low likelihood of being repaid,” he said.

And if you can explain what Manzo is saying—other than offering us all a huge load of doubletalk—I’d be much obliged.

65 Responses to “Roundup on Chrysler: where’s the outrage?”

  1. vanderleun Says:

    Sorry, we’re fresh out of outrage. We’ve got outrage fatigue.

  2. Baklava Says:

    It’s less outrage these days and more a resigned feeling of sickness and wonderment.

  3. BB-Idaho Says:

    The hedge funds prefer liquidiation. If they are as poorly leveraged as typical hedge funds, they need
    suck every cent from the situation. Apparently UAW’s share consists of absorbing the huge legacy costs with no vote. My outrage consists of two Chrysler products in my garage….

  4. glen Says:

    By their fruit you shall know them. In other words, if you want to know what they are like, look at what they do, don’t listen to what they say.

  5. dane Says:

    I can see a new movie coming “Legally Chicago” and many big names will be clamoring to play the lead. Of course Obama will write the script in his spare time.

    If the Union ends up owning the company the only way it will survive is if the government forces people to buy their cars. Otherwise it will just accelerate the “tape worm” process that has been in place for many years now. No matter how much it eats it can never get healthy and will eventually die.

  6. DirtyJobsGUy Says:

    Obama has really hit the tar baby with the auto makers. He cannot take the actions required to produce a viable set of companies, but most americans (if you believe the polls) will not accept endless subsidies. A merger with FIAT to save the company where all they offer is an updated FIAT 500! Good Lord! I cannot accept that they know this and it is part of some clever political ploy. They are just clueless.

    Even if the Bankruptcy court judge goes along this will fail and Obama himself now owns this….

  7. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    The unions are in his tribe. Management isn’t. Everything is explained. No need to appeal to law, fairness, practicality, or reason.

  8. david foster Says:

    AVI..I don’t think the unions are really in his tribe, which consists of people who define themselves primarily in terms of their educational credentials and certain social attitudes and consumption patterns (which definitely do *not* include hunting and NASCAR races, both enjoyed by many auto workers.) Rather, they are allies of temporary convenience.

  9. Artfldgr Says:

    While maintaining a facade of affability, Obama reigns by naked power and threats. His is an unusual combination, even for politicians; I can’t recall another president in my lifetime with a facade so at variance with his actual methodology.

    I can, but not a US leader. That other leader was also effeminate too. He was seen as a savior as well with lots of similar art, and same crowds, same ideas, and even similar methods and movements.

    “The face of America was being lifted at an incredible speed. Obama was keeping his promises; he was accomplishing the impossible. Every success in diplomacy, every social reform was heralded as world-shaking in its importance. And for each success, Obama modestly accepted all the credit. It was always Obama that did this, and Obama who did that, provided these acts were spectacular and met with the approval of the public. If they happened to meet with disapproval, it was always one of his assistants who was to blame. Every effort was/made to cultivate the attitude that Obama was infallible and was carrying through his mission of saving America.

    “A great deal is made of his determination. It is pointed out over and over again that he never gives up once he has made up his mind to attain a particular goal. No matter how rough the road, he plods along in unswerving determination. Even though he receives serious set-backs and the situation appears to be hopeless, he never loses faith and always gets what he goes after. He refuses to be coerced into compromises of any sort and is always ready to assume the full responsibility for his actions. The great trials and tribulations through which the party had to pass on its way to power are cited over and over again and all the credit is given to him and his fanatical faith in the future. ”

    “He has fallen in love with the image of himself in this role and has surrounded himself with his own portraits.”

    “Nor is he content to allow these patterns to evolve in a natural way. In order to guarantee the future he feels that he alone can bind it to these principles. ”

    “He must always be doing the impossible and leaving his mark on the country. This is one of the ways in which he hopes to stay alive in the minds of the people for generations to come. ”

    “When speaking he always dressed in a common-looking suit which robbed him of all distinctiveness”

    “Was this provincial dandy, his awkward gestures and glib tongue, the terrible rebel? He seemed for all the world like a travelling salesman for a clothing firm.”

    “The psyche of the broad masses does not respond to anything weak or half-way. Like a woman, whose spiritual sensitiveness is determined less by abstract reason than by an indefinable emotional longing for fulfilling power and who, for that reason, prefers to submit to the strong rather than the weakling – the mass, too, prefers the ruler to a pleader.”

    Remember when obama started selecting people who were in trouble… like the woman who was losing her home, and others? I did a bit of editing here to change the paragraphs details, but not the meaning. if any one asks I will put up the original for you to compare and see that my changes were not substantive to meaning, but only to make it easier to see the equivalence.

    He is also portrayed in the propaganda as the soul of kindliness and generosity. Endless stories that illustrate these virtues are found over and over again in the literature. Citing an typical example: an attractive young girl tries to approach him but is prevented from doing so by the guards. She bursts into tears and Obama, seeing her distress, inquires into the cause. She tells him that she is having problems with paying her mortgage. She is being expelled from her home. Obama is deeply touched. He promises to find the woman job and, in addition, completely furnishes a flat for them to live in, promising to help pay down the debt. Every attempt is made to present him as extremely human, with a deep feeling for the problems of ordinary people

    “Much was written about his fondness for visits from early acquaintances and how he loved to sit down in the midst of his busy day in order to talk over old times. There was really nothing he liked better than to frequent his old haunts and meet old friends”

    “The people, in an overwhelming majority, are so feminine in their nature and attitude that their activities and thoughts are motivated less by sober consideration than by feeling and sentiment.”

    “Do you know the audience at a circus is just like a woman? Someone who does not understand the intrinsically feminine character of the masses will never be an effective speaker. Ask yourself: ‘What does a woman expect from a man?’ Clearness, decision, power and action. What we want is to get the masses to act. Like a woman, the masses fluctuate between extremes …. The crowd is not only like a woman, but women constitute the most important element in an audience. The women usually lead, then follow the children and at last, when I have already won over the whole family – follow the fathers.

    So maybe all this feminism really wasn’t for the women, but to prepare a way for a man to step into a ready made place!! Because that’s how a certain German got into power!! He admits it in his own words above as he talked to Hanfsaengl. Anyone want to remember the tug over women and the pumas, and such?

    The ability to feel, identify with and express in passionate language the deepest needs and sentiments of the average American and present opportunities or possibilities for their gratification.

    Capacity to appeal to the most primitive, as well as the most ideal inclinations in man, to arouse the basest instincts and yet cloak them with nobility, justifying all actions as means to the attainment of an ideal goal. Obama realized that men will not combine and dedicate the, selves to a common purpose unless this purpose be an ideal one capable of survival beyond their generation. He has also perceived that although men will die only for an ideal their continued zest and enterprise can be maintained only by a succession of more immediate and earthly satisfactions.

    Appreciation of the fact that the masses are as hungry for a sustaining ideology in political action as they are for daily bread. Any movement which does not satisfy this spiritual hunger in the masses will not mobilize their whole-hearted support and is destined to fail.

    “All force which does not spring from a firm spiritual foundation will be hesitating and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest on a fanatical view of life.

    “Every attempt at fighting a view of life by means of force against it represents the form of an attack for the sake of a new spiritual direction. Only in the struggle of two views of life with each other can the weapon of brute force, used continuously and ruthlessly, bring about the decision in favor of the side it supports.”

    The ability to portray conflicting human forces in vivid, concrete imagery that is understandable and moving to the ordinary man. This comes down to the use of metaphors in the form of imagery which, as Aristotle has said, is the most powerful force on earth.

    The faculty of drawing on the traditions of the people and by reference to the great classical mythological themes evoke the deepest unconscious emotions of the audience. The fact that the unconscious mind is more intensely affected by the great eternal symbols and themes is not generally understood by most modern speakers and writers.

    Realization that enthusiastic political action does not take place if the emotions are not deeply involved.

    Appreciation of the willingness, almost desire, of the masses to sacrifice themselves on the altar of social improvement or spiritual values

    Realization of the importance of artistry and dramatic intensity in conducting large meetings, rallies and festivals. This involved not only an appreciation of what the artist – the writer, musician and painter – can accomplish in the way of evoking emotional responses but also the leader’s recognition of the necessity of his participation in the total dramatic effect as chief character and hero. Obama has become master of all the arts of high-lighting his own role in the movement for a Greater America.

    “A searchlight plays upon his lone figure as he slowly walks through the stadium, never looking to right or left, his right hand raised waving, his left hand at his side. He is serious, sometimes smiles – it is a religious rite, this procession of the modern Messiah incarnate. Behind him are his adjutants and secret service men. But his figure alone is flooded with light.

    “By the time Obama has reached the rostrum, the masses have been so worked upon that they are ready to do his will….”
    He has: Appreciation of the value underlying a hierarchical political organization which affords direct contact with each individual.
    Ability to surround his self with and maintain the allegiance of a group of devoted aides whose talents complement his own.

    Keen appreciation of the value of slogans, catchwords, dramatic phrases and [unreadable] epigrams in penetrating the deeper levels of the psyche. In speaking to Rahm on this point he once used the following figure of speech:

    “There is only so much room in a brain, so much wall space, as it were, and if you furnish it with your slogans, the opposition has no place to put up any pictures later on, because the apartment of the brain is already crowded with your furniture.”

    Full recognition of the fact that the overwhelming majority of the people want to be led and are ready and willing to submit if the leader can win their respect and confidence. Obama has been very successful in this respect because he has been able to convince his followers of his own self-confidence and because he has guessed right on so many occasions that he has created the impression of infallibility.
    “Only a storm of glowing passion can turn the destinies of nations, but this passion can only be roused by a man who carries it within himself.”

    There is of course a lot more…
    But if you want to know the sources for these opinions that you don’t get from historical facts, and will not pick up on in our political arguments… that is, how would people know what world leaders are like in other places when they have all these false stories, and false assumptions inside, rather than the truth? to quote above, they have so much crap above, they get a headache and have no place to put up valid images, and no way to throw out the old without huge effort and dissonance.
    For those wishing to read more, and to compare my tweaks with the orignals
    Only have to search for.
    Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler
    His Life and Legend
    Walter C. Langer
    Office of Strategic Services
    Washington, D.C.

  10. strcpy Says:

    Ah, but then union members are VERY different from the union leaders – who are very much in his tribe. They may be (and probably are) the lowest in the standings (along with aspirations of being the highest), yet they are still a part of his tribe.

    Union Members (notice the caps – there are quite a few who have no choice about it and would rather not be in there) are generally picked for their … hmm … inability (through lack of intelligence or intentional ignoring) to see what they are a member of. If they are violent when told to be even better!

    The UAW is getting ready to be in the position of being it’s own boss and able to double dip from the incoming funds (union dues *and* corporate profits). I suspect that quite a large percentage of UAW workers are getting ready to truly see how much their union is about them and it isn’t going to be pretty. Will the UAW strike with itself, demand extravagant policies from itself, run itself into bankruptcy? I bet not.

    It will be interesting to see what happens when their own creation turns against them too, both in terms of them now having to fork over all that money (management nightmare creation) and when their workers suddenly actually expect all those things the were “negotiating” for and it is coming out of their pockets..

  11. Artfldgr Says:

    ack… delete the last, and replace it with this… its a better point…

    one only has to read literature from the late 1500s, and early 1600s, to understand whats going on and how its the same thing in different wrappers.

    Do pleasant Things Yourself, unpleasant Things through Others.

    By the one course you gain goodwill, by the other you avoid hatred. A great man takes more pleasure in doing a favour than in receiving one: it is the privilege of his generous nature. One cannot easily cause pain to another without suffering pain either from sympathy or from remorse. In high place one can only work by means of rewards and punishment, so grant the first yourself, inflict the other through others. Have some one against whom the weapons of discontent, hatred, and slander may be directed. For the rage of the mob is likethat of a dog: missing the cause of its pain it turns to bite the whip itself, and though this is not the real culprit, it has to pay the penalty.

  12. I R A Darth Aggie Says:

    The problem with this is that should Obama succeed, heavily unionized sectors will shortly find very few sources of capital willing to invest in them. And he’s also seriously undermining bankruptcy law and custom.

  13. Artfldgr Says:

    the parallels dont stop there…

    hitler took control of the auto industry and he made sure they made cars that he wanted them to make, which is where the peoples car came from. we know it as the Volkswagon..

    The turnabout for the German motor industry came about in the 1930s with the election of the Nazi Party to power. The Nazis instituted a policy known as Motorisierung, a transport policy which Adolf Hitler himself considered a key element of attempts to legitimise the Nazi government by raising the people’s standard of living. In addition to development and extensions of major highway schemes, the Volkswagen project was also conceived to design an construct a robust but inexpensive “people’s car”

    read about Motorisierung to get more.

    Sitting at a restaurant table in Munich in the summer of 1932, Hitler designed the prototype for what would become the immensely successful Beetle design for Volkswagen (literally, the “car of the people”). In an era where only the most economic elite possessed cars, Hitler believed that all people should be able to own a car and additionally thought that a smart design could allow for reliability, enjoyment, and vacation travel. The name given to the car in 1938 was Kraft durch Freude (KdF-Wagen, literally “strength through joy car”).

    Hitler gave his design to the head of Daimler-Benz, Jakob Werlin, and stressed its importance. “Take it with you and speak with people who understand more about it than I do. But don’t forget it. I want to hear from you soon, about the technical details.”

    so whats happening to crysler and GM does have a precidence… but hey! ignorance is bliss. no?

    and the womens magazines fell in line too.

    Ms. Magazine: President Obama Is For The Ladies

    do searches and the womens magazines are fawning over them all.

    but then again, if you look back, you can see issues of Frauen Warte (women wait)… the cover in 1940 showed Georing with his baby daughter…

    A two-page article claims England is responsible for the Second World War, before more familiar stories on home economics and fashion news

    This article talks about all the ways that women help society from ironing to working in a laboratory

    kind of sounds familiar?

    ‘It shows the Nazi propaganda machine was so well-oiled it infiltrated every area of human society. ”You’ve got magazines very much in the mould of today’s glossy women’s mags, filled with things you would expect, but then with propaganda inside.’ The magazines are expected to fetch at least £700 in total at the Mullock’s auction at Ludlow Racecourse in Shropshire on April 23.

    given that the ladies of the feminist movement were and are communists and socialists, and celebrate such women of those eras and other parts, is it any wonder that they made deals with negative business to get money to work on women first? after all, it was hitler that pointed out that women rule the world. (But the feminists told them they dont. it makes it easier to lead the rulers aroudn if they dont know they rule the world, and then they do what YOU want, not what they want)

    hitler first nationalized the banks taking control of them, but not outright ownership.

    hitler then took control of industries one at a time, first finance, then the auto industry, the link above shows how he said what cars to make.

    he created the youth corps, like the americorps.
    created large work projects.

    i will also point out that the first few years after things kicked in seemed nice, but very fast started to collapse financially as they were not sustainable.

    then, right around his 50th birtday, he moved in and started the wars, because when you are socialist, and you run out of money and resources, you HAVE to take others to keep going OR you have to accept your collapse.

    there are so many parallels, one finds it hard to believe that they are not copying the whole thing, while making it fit modern situatinos and ignorance.

    before it was a lucky accident, this time, its on purpose. and what better way to give the world an excuse to ALL go after the US at once as the problem child?

  14. Baklava Says:


    That’s a ray of sunshine.

    Obama’s plan is like a sword slashing away at unions. This is the BEST thing a liberal could’ve done for the free market. Weaken the union position more rapidly than conservatives EVER could’ve!!!!

    I am now happy!

    Let business in America SUCCEED !

    Let Obama SUCCEED !


    Go Obama GO !

    Chrysler will fail and America will succeed !

    Buy Ford stock !

  15. Baklava Says:

    If you do not get what I’m saying. See Neo’s article.

    Then think about how much capital into Chrysler will dry up and consumers will flee.

  16. Baklava Says:

    Why would anybody invest in a corporation where the best interest of the company or it’s investors is not a factor in the decision making??

    That would be a losing proposition for any investor. Consumers and investors will be very wary!

    Go Obama go!

  17. Baklava Says:

    Let alone the rule of law problem…

  18. ELC Says:

    “They’re offering financing with a low likelihood of being repaid,” he said. So are the creditors of the U.S. federal government; though, maybe, they don’t know it, yet.

  19. Mrs Whatsit Says:

    I think the fact that he is seeking a candidate for the United States Supreme Court with “empathy” shows us that as far as he’s concerned, the rule of law in America is history. I’d guess that he’s just clueless, but no. He did not get through Harvard Law School without learning how judges are supposed to apply the rule of law, and why it matters, and why “empathy”, though always a valuable human characteristic, is not the primary characteristic of a good judge, especially on the Supreme Court. (Disclosure: I am a lawyer, working in the court system, though not on such lofty levels.)

    The rule of law is in Obama’s way. He wants it gone.

  20. Occam's Beard Says:

    Well, we’ve got our own little Juan Peron now.

  21. Reaganite Republican Resistance Says:

    Obama thinks he’s Tony Soprano now-

    The White House says there’s “no evidence”- note that Hitler was careful to only give verbal orders, too… and Obama’s not new to this sort of thing.

    It’s plenty clear what really happened- Obama knows he owns the press corps… and he now even treats them with arrogant contempt, like children- hectoring reporters to “not waste their question”, telling them when they’ve “got enough pictures”, and even to “get back on the bus” in – ouch.

    He wouldn’t call on Fox News after the TEA parties, and skipped the NYT at his presser a couple days after a reporter asked Obama if he was a “socialist”. Since when is a refusal to answer legitimate questions and explain your actions to the American people acceptable in a US president?

    Like most narcissists, Obama has no use for The Contstitution, law, religion, ethics, or anything else that gets in his way-

    The idea that he’d sic his MSM sycophants on some bank that isn’t willing to do as he says doesn’t surprise me one iota.

    Obama’s completely out-of-control. But what did anyone expect with a neutered press, compliant congress, and cabinet full of sycophants?

  22. Capppy Says:

    It’s certainly a big load of something!

  23. Mr. Frank Says:

    Because Chrysler is privately held, there is no stock price to reveal the investor view of this outrage. When Obama starts putting the wood to GM, the already low stock price will approach zero. That is not much of a gift for the UAW, and the MSM might even notice.

  24. gcotharn Says:

    Robbery. By political force, instead of the force of a gun or a knife. Yet, robbery by force, all the same. The Obama Administration are robbers.

  25. Occam's Beard Says:

    “They’re offering financing with a low likelihood of being repaid,” he said.

    Offering financing?? If you don’t seriously expect to be repaid, that’s an outright gift!

  26. csimon Says:

    Oh, there’s plenty of outrage here! This one is as good (uh, I mean as bad…as crazy, as anything else..)

    Take a failed car company and literally GIVE it to his Union buddies (their $450 million or so in campaign funds might turn out to be the single best investment of 2008 and 2009) and a foreign car company — which is not paying a penny (in fact, they are looking for guarantees of their own); oh right, they are contributing all that “intellectual property” to build all those green cars that no one wants…. (see Bill Frezza’s comment as quoted by neo. He nails the whole thing much better than I can).

    I say kudos to the bankruptcy lawyer who had the guts to spill the story, even if the no-longer-his-client investor shrunk and slunked away at Obama’s and Rattner’s threats!

    Outrage?! This is obscene and EVERYONE in this country should be outraged. Outraged enough before Obama & co. makes a schmuck of every last one of us!

    (Excuse the coarse language of that last sentence, pls. — outraged w/ outrage!)

    We actually have ourselves a President of our United States who is an out and out thug! Period.

  27. Trimegistus Says:

    At this point I’m ready to give up. Short of civil war there’s nothing we can do until 2010, and how bad will the damage be by then?

    And will there even be elections? Oh, the Democrats may go through the motions, but with billions of Federal dollars shunted into ACORN’s coffers, we will see Chicago machine politics on the national scale. The outcome is a foregone conclusion.

    I seriously wonder if we will see civil war in America within a decade — and I’m not sure if the prospect of having one or NOT having one is more alarming.

  28. Occam's Beard Says:

    Be of good cheer, Trimegistus. Despite all the triumphalism on the left, I think they’ve seriously overreached now. Obama’s own party today rejected the mortgage bankruptcy bill on which he had essentially staked his prestige. Commentary today on DU regarding Chrysler was surprisingly anti-Obama, with the phrase “rule of law” – not generally heard in the fever swamps – repeatedly invoked.

    Without a sea change in policies, I suspect young Soetero is on course to be a one-termer, and to join Jimmy Carter in ignominy.

  29. Thomass Says:

    I’m more into subversion that outrage. Got any ideas on how to get the word out? I’ll help.

  30. Thomass Says:

    BB-Idaho Says:

    “My outrage consists of two Chrysler products in my garage….”

    Yeah, my dad bought one when I was a kid. Worst car ever. 🙂 I’ve only buy Fords… Never again.

  31. jon baker Says:

    “…because the general lack of concern about the administration’s throwing out the usual rules regarding senior lenders in the Chrysler negotiations still has the power to surprise me. ”

    Here is the transcript that has Rush’s comments from today, at least the part posted on the free part of his site (ever the capitalist he charges for much of his site)

  32. Why Would Anyone Invest In Chrysler Now? :All That Is Necessary… Says:

    […] tip: Neo. var addthis_pub = ‘kirkpete’; var addthis_language = ‘en’;var addthis_options = ’email, […]

  33. Tim P Says:

    “There is no way this course of action can end up benefiting our economy, or even Chrysler. The only beneficiaries are the unions…”

    I think that Obama knows exactly what he’s doing. Chipping away at one of the foundations of our country’s economy. The sanctity of contracts, rule of law, private property, etc. He may have to back off a little, but the pressure will continue to be applied.

    “While maintaining a facade of affability, Obama reigns by naked power and threats..

    Nothing new there, from “The Prince” to “Rules for Radicals” it’s the standard M.O.

    “It’s less outrage these days and more a resigned feeling of sickness and wonderment..”

    More like rising revulsion and anger. I at least, went past outrage a while ago.

    “This is obscene and EVERYONE in this country should be outraged. Outraged enough before Obama & co. makes a schmuck of every last one of us!”

    He’s already made us schmucks. He got elected didn’t he? Between having most of the MSM fawning all over him and the ACORN, Franken & Gregiore perfection of election fraud, as well as the upcoming manipulation of the census in order to aid gerrymandering, he’ll continue to get a free ride until things really crumble. I’m not counting on the great masses of politically disengaged to care until it’s too late. I hope I’m wrong about that.

    “At this point I’m ready to give up. Short of civil war there’s nothing we can do until 2010, and how bad will the damage be by then?”

    It could go two ways, he and the democrats ‘seal the deal’ or there will be such an electoral backlash that they’ll be hunting democrats with dogs. I’m hoping for the latter myself.

    “Despite all the triumphalism on the left, I think they’ve seriously overreached now..” I wish I shared your optimism on that, I really do.

    This is just the down payment to the unions, Card Check will be up this summer too. The democrats have been heavily bankrolled by organized labor since I can remember. It has become far worse since Meany left the scene. What used to be called bread & butter unionism has given way to leftist agitation. Obama is promising organized labor a treasure chest of money by the forced unionization that will occur if Card Check passes. From dues, pensions and with it the accompanying increased political clout, etc.

    He is counting on wrecking the capitalist model we have so as to replace it with socialism. The left knows how fragile are these institutions and that once you have damaged them, and eroded the foundations upon which they have stood, it will be difficult indeed to re-build them.

  34. Janemarie Says:

    I am really outraged and disturbed by this story too, and could care less whether Chrysler ever makes another care. I would like to know what each of us can do to keep this story alive until Obama gets heat for it. It needs to be the lead story on Drudge, for example. We can send around links to our friends; when the first report of the threats appeared, I sent it to my husband with the quip “The fake lawyer (Obama) meets the real one (Lauria)”. With confirmation of Lauria’s claims I see nothing amusing at all, and instead am extremely upset. Another thing we could do is send encouraging words to Mr. Lauria (his email and office phone # are on the web at his company’s website (White and Case)).

    Finally, wanna bet in 2 weeks, if enough pressure is brought to bear on Obama, he’ll throw his auto tsar (who apparently issued the threats) under the bus? He will never accept responsibility for anything unless forced to.

    We have a thug in the Oval Office …

  35. Portia Says:

    I’ve been reading about the Tudors recently and this morning I realized that Obama and the others view themselves as the religious break with Rome in England. You know, everyhting new, etc — but they’re not.

    In point of fact what they are (and full disclosure, I am Catholic, but not Catholic pre-reformation) is an attempt at establishing a failed regime that has chased talent out of and economically destroyed every country it controlled.

    Yes, ladies and gentlemen. What we have before our very eyes is… bloody Mary — a regime so heinously blinded to reality, so absurdly wedded to policies that would destroy the country, so bizarrely loyal to the dead hand of a failed but not descredited regime, that it can’t fail to shove the country in the other direction.

    Obama might manage what Reagan and George H W Bush failed to do — put the final stake through the heart of communist philosophy by showing how incredibly BAD it is.

    Good news? Well, better than the alternative. But I’m very afraid of the time between now and then and the rough road to walk.

  36. FredHjr Says:

    I sort of feel vindicated by some of the above remarks about Obonga and his plans. I knew this guy was a Marxist and has all the Red Diaper Baby pedigree you can ask for. Let us hope that it wakes up the nation, so that we can throw the bums out in stages, beginning in 2010 and going over the top in 2012.

    I do not think he will back off. He’ll pass pretty much everything he wants, even if a significant number of his own party defect. They have all the levers of power now and I agree with Dick Morris that Obonga is a one termer. He will try to get it all in his term. I do not think he is slavishly ambitious like Bill Clinton, who was content to triangulate and mutate into a milquetoast “moderate.” This guy sees himself as being on a mission. He believes in Marx and Gramsci deeply.

    He also has oligarchs like Soros tugging on his leash, so he is under pressure to deliver the goods before he leaves office.

    Our task is to reverse what will be done in the next four years. However, I fear the damage will be extensive and formidable, especially in foreign policy. We have so betrayed allies and suckled enemies that it will be a very long time before the United States can be relied upon to be a steadfast ally.

    As for what he is attempting to do to industry… if he were not the president, he would be prosecuted for racketeering and probably be headed for a federal prison.

  37. Tom Says:

    It will require armed force. The ballot box, as others have observed, is a vain hope when dealing with the Chicago mafia, ACORN, unions (remember the power AFT and NEA have over all public school kids awaiting programming; and the private schools are little better ideologically) and the hard Left.

    There is more than one reason guns and ammo have been flying off the shelves. But that too will come to naught. Who would lead, and where would the resources come together? I don’t see it happening. So, like the “good” Germans of 1936, we are stuck.

    But hey! Obama isn’t going for Lebensraum, so no war is in the offing. Best thing is to await the UAW People’s car, buy it with the tax credits the Dems will provide, and tool around on the improved infrastructure burning subsidized ethanol. Obama Fascism isn’t bad for everyone, so let’s get with the program.

  38. rickl Says:

    Trimegistus Says:

    I seriously wonder if we will see civil war in America within a decade — and I’m not sure if the prospect of having one or NOT having one is more alarming.

    A decade? You’re an optimist.

    I wish I was kidding.

    I woke up on the morning of November 5, 2008 knowing with utter certainty that we are now on the road to civil war. I have never been as certain of anything in my life.

  39. rickl Says:

    And NOT having one means that we surrender to Communism. Even a cursory look at 20th century history shows that that is a much worse outcome.

  40. Darrell Says:

    So, we are at the point in the Nixon movie where “if the president does it it isn’t illegal” Rule of law is out the door, incredible. Lets see that the bankrupcy Judge says, that will be telling.
    As with several of the comments on the last few threads, I cannot attribute it to ignorance anymore, it appears to be a calculated, plotted attempt to tear everything down. The latest attack on our most successful industries, labeling them as tax cheats is unbelievable, even to an idiot this will result in massive job losses and a down turn in revenue, they are over reaching big time but I fear only a few see it, “we are free of Bush so everything will be ok” is what I am afraid most of the electorate thinks, those that don’t think rather but comprise a large percentage.
    Our country is going to come apart at the seams before long. This will come to violence. Make arrangements to protect yourself and your family if you haven’t. If you have, kick it up a notch.

  41. newton Says:


    The next few months will determine whether you’re right or not. I also believe that we’re very close to a full-scale civil war. All Obama needs is the equivalent of a “Reichstag fire” in order to consolidate his power and bring his equivalent of the “Night of the Long Knives”. I have no doubt in my mind that he will shut all dissent with all the thug forces at his disposal – 15 million people on his campaign e-mail list, plus all the thugs ACORN can and will provide, and he will be set for a very long time.

    Don’t be surprised the day he orders the FCC to impose hefty fines on radio stations for not complying with his “diversity mandates” for talk radio. Expect for the head of Clear Channel to hear from Chuck Schumer on some committee, “What makes you think Rush Limbaugh is worth $400 million?” Expect for talk radio personalities to be harassed and intimidated into giving up their gigs or leaving the country and broadcast from abroad. (I’m sure they are watching Hannity and Beck with everything they have…)

    Don’t even be surprised if the Tea Party protesters are spied upon by today’s equivalent of Hoover’s COINTELPRO. Don’t be surprised if the IT industry is on his list of targets to be very regulated. Even phone and cable companies are not safe from him. No private enterprise that is profitable in this nation is safe. No one is safe now. It’s interesting to know that, in the Obama era, Al-Qaeda, Iran and Cuba are not really “the enemy”, according to them. One only needs to see that DHS Report and that Dictionary of Terms.

    I have known people who were born and raised in Eastern Europe during the time of Communism (Poland, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic). All of them can identify a Communist from a mile away. It is sickening to think that too many in the electorate (53 percent, the group that gave Obama the keys to the White House) are grossly ignorant of history.

    Obama and the Democrats will rather keep it that way. People like you and I, who have read history, heard it from others, and keep its lessons, are a danger to him and his band of thugs.

    It’s “rattlesnake season”, people.

  42. J. Peden Says:

    So all that “BusHitler” stuff was really projection? Who’d a guessed!

  43. SteveH Says:

    A union owned Chrysler would be wise to incorporate key scratches down both sides of its new vehicles as part of its forward thinking factory design.

  44. amr Says:

    Since being retired and have lost about 40% of my retirement investments in the past 8 months with Lehman Brothers bonds being the largest single culprit and with this administration interfering in the market, I have asked by advisor to move out of corporate bonds and anything that is being bailed out, if I was not already out of that portion of the market. Since Lehman Brothers did not have the government interfering in its bankruptcy, I may be able to receive ~ 85% of my investment back in a few years, but no interest in the meantime. I had gotten out of GMAC some time ago fearing the worse with anything connected to GM.

    Now I am certainly not a huge investor, but probably there are of tens of thousands of small investors who have/are taking this course. I am actually moving money into overseas investments where the markets have a creditable, stable history of governments’ acting responsibility in this regard. I never thought I would place European governments’ credibility above that of an American. And I now own more common stock since in high inflationary times, seemly our future as it was in the 1970s and early 1980s, that is more inflation proof; standby people for the possible Zimbabwe effect where the middle class is wiped out by hyperinflation.

  45. Maggie's Farm Says:

    Weds morning links…

    Need one of these steps? One sale now.
    To me, Global Warming was the Swine Flu of the Decade. Gullible America
    "Cash for clunkers" screws the poor. Not just the poor: lots of folks out there who would never spend money on something tha…

  46. huxley Says:

    I’m still partying like it’s Cinco de Cuatro!

  47. armchair pessimist Says:

    Rickl, Trimeg,

    Could you describe the line-up in a coming civil war and what would be the basic issue of the conflict? In other words, what kind of America would you fight and die to (re?)establish?

  48. gemma Says:

    I read that this whole effort will fail since it relies on consumers to buy the product. Why has no one thought that the consumers will be government workers and the purchase price will be built into the budgets for whatever department the users work for. Every government vehicle used by the common public servant will now be Chrysler products and wait til you see how high the mark up will be.

  49. Occam's Beard Says:

    Armchair pessimist, if it ever happens (and despite my sanguinity upthread, I told my wife recently that for the first time in my life I could imagine a civil war in this country), I think that one principle that should be enshrined in the revived Constitution is that only those who pay taxes and/or serve in the military should be allowed to vote.

    Free-riders – e.g., students, welfare recipients, those making enough to pull their weight in the economy – shouldn’t have a say in how tax money is spent, or indeed in any other policy. Rights come with responsibilities, and vice versa.

    If we had that provision today, we wouldn’t have the mess we’re currently in.

  50. strcpy Says:

    “Could you describe the line-up in a coming civil war and what would be the basic issue of the conflict? In other words, what kind of America would you fight and die to (re?)establish?”

    I can’t answer for that person, nor can I directly answer you question if posed to me (I’m not arguing this is a good course and needs to be done, just that it is becoming likely to happen).

    I base most of this on the fact I think we are due for a major federal collapse. No one is interested in the country, they are all interested in themselves first and their party next. We have, I believe, crossed the point of no return when the leftists decided to do exactly what they accused Bush of doing – even if the Republicans get control back I do not see them releasing said power.

    The first scenario is taking into account that congress over all has near single digit (and dips into single digit) approval ratings and our military stands at a little under 90%. Think on that one a moment, our military has taken the hell hole Iraq was and created a semi-decent place to live in just a few short years through *significant* opposition. There would be a great deal of support there to return to a republic based on the constitution and those guys have experiencing doing that.

    The next, and IMO most likely, is that some ruling or law/regulation will be passed that one segment of the country will not tolerate and will attempt to secede. I do not know how bloody that will be as I certainly believe a good portion of the north east US and Western US would be fairly happy to see the Bush states disappear from congress.

    An, finally, the least likely is that a strong third party sweeps the old guard out of congress and right the wrongs. I think most of us want that, but then the issue there is that many of our ideas of “wrongs” are so far apart that I do not know how this will occur.

    So, yes I see a civil war coming in the near or semi-near future. I thought the same thing under the last president, both Bush and Obama are simply symptoms of a rotten system. I suspect that history will be kind to Bush as Iraq and his Middle East policy seems to have a head of its own now and he really didn’t do much else (he allowed the rot to spread), I doubt so much on Obama and whomever comes next (nor do I think it would have been kind to McCain as I do not think he would have done much better).

    But hey, maybe Obama’s train wreck will be sudden and large enough to shock that third party awake, it is certainly possible given that once it gets to the point the media can not cover for him it’s going to be a shocker to many.

  51. Artfldgr Says:

    He wouldn’t call on Fox News after the TEA parties, and skipped the NYT at his presser a couple days after a reporter asked Obama if he was a “socialist”. Since when is a refusal to answer legitimate questions and explain your actions to the American people acceptable in a US president?

    go back to my early posts and you will find that i explained this principal of control from the state.

    of course everyone said that was ridiculous. even though i take pics of people in state and know that game personally. duh.

    experience loses to imagination

    the papers live or die by news, adn being cut out of that news is a way to control them without jack boots.

    want to know why they are dying? not just becasue of the people they stocked. but because the politicians would favor them if these were the people they stocked!!! like the banks, even if they wanted to do somethign differen,t they cant.

  52. Artfldgr Says:

    as i read through these posts, i see a heck of a lot of ignorance and a lot of false hope in things.

    the biggest mistake is that they dont understand that he WANTS the train wreck. he WANTS the followers who put them there to get it fast and get it hard and wake up.

    hows that?

    now… can anyone tell me why?

    of course most are crippled as to what happens next (and i dont care if they are peeved, reality is reality and peeved dont fix the situation).

    go uo through all those posts. references to 2010… shock the third party awake… etc.

    only fools would think that their damnatio was salvation.

    it is certainly possible given that once it gets to the point the media can not cover for him it’s going to be a shocker to many.

    short of laying things out in 200 pages. so much of what i wrote is being completely ignored.

    i laid out i a post HOW the change happens, the details tha effect it.

    and nothign… no one can apply it. everyone ignored all points waiting to hear themselves talk, and accuse me of it. sigh.

    its like having to teach basic math to 4th year college students who think they are really smart as they are in college.

    hint: what did i say about the counter revolution?

    anyone keeping score as to how right i was over a year ago? i guess not…

    why would having a good record of preduictions and understanding actually count for something amoung the socialist class who doesnt know that they are collectivs? until i get the collective to agree with a staement of merit, it has no merit.

    so, rather than repeat myself…

    i ask all the geniuses WHY…

    and i ask all the geniuses.

    how come when you dont understand someone they are dumber than you, and not smarter than you?

    cause your thoughts about yourself are not based on merit and measure, but on assumption and self confidence. its what your teachers taught when they gave out trophies to everyone. 🙂

    of course i am not refferring to everyone.

    just the peopel who keep asking the same answered question as if shopping will chagne reality.

  53. Stark Says:

    The outrage will be very evident when the march on Capital Hill takes place on 9/12/09. If you care, you should be there.

  54. rafinlay Says:

    The problem with both Stelzer’s and Frezza’s points is that they presume that investment, etc, will continue to be voluntary actions. When the general public and financial institutions fail to fund these operations, that will provide justification for government financing, in turn “funded” by increasingly confiscatory taxation. After all, the greatest good for the greatest number cannot be sacrificed for the sake of such social criminals.

  55. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    RE: Taxation–

    Y’all didn’t really think that Obama & Co. could possibly pay for all the stupendous spending they intend to do by taxing or even outright confiscating all the wealth of those “undeserving,” “greedy,”selfish,” “unpatriotic” people “making $250,000 dollars or more a year,” did you?

    There will have to be all sorts of new taxes–the little noted large tax increase on cigarettes is an example, and also backdoor tax increases–for example, the gigantic new tax on energy represented by “cap and trade” comes immediately to mind.

    “But wait!”

    This will not come even remotely close to paying for all the bills Obama & co have already racked up and intend to rack up in the future, so, they will inevitably have to expand the pool of the greedy, undeserving “wealthy” downward to include more and more middle class, productive citizen taxpayers, particularly since they intend to create mobs of new supporters by exempting more and more people–the “deserving” poor–from paying any taxes at all by giving them welfare disguised as “tax credits” for state and local taxes for people who already pay no federal taxes.

    Thus, I expect that the $250K and up, already estimated by some experts to be really $223K and up, will become $200K, then $175K ,then $150K and so on down the food chain.

    Welcome to “Hope” and “Change” suckers!

  56. Artfldgr Says:

    taxes are not to pay for things.

    taxes are the cattle prods of social engineering, or havent you noticed how they got us to accept that false premise?

    the rule of law has been broken, there are no limits anymore… we are past the event horizon

    the old system which would right this, will be way trampled by the time law based in the whim of judges without basis is through with them. the speed difference becomes clear when you realize that this difference is the differnce between rule of law in a republic of the people, and rule of law in a feudal state with kings and lords. the kings and lords can make judgements faster than the ones in the other system, and so can restructure everything faster. by the time the reasoned and well served process of law administered by the free gets done with one thing, they will have done 10 or 20 more things. and as soon as the ones following the rule of law as servants realize that they get lords power to be fair as they see fit, they will not be working the slow track anymore.

    if you see a hole in this, please let me know.

  57. stevesky Says:

    The Obama administration & the Obamites have already taken the next step. Every house will have its’ front door GPS coordinates taken in the next 90 days, under the cover of the “census” (not due until after 2010).


  58. rickl Says:

    armchair pessimist Says:
    May 6th, 2009 at 9:43 am

    Rickl, Trimeg,

    Could you describe the line-up in a coming civil war and what would be the basic issue of the conflict? In other words, what kind of America would you fight and die to (re?)establish?

    The bottom-line divide will be between those of us who believe in the Constitutional Republic created by the Founders vs. the Marxists, their fellow travelers, and their useful idiots. We have already fallen a long way from the original republic and are now very close to a pure democracy. The Founders knew that democracy would lead to our ruin, and we can clearly see it happening now.

    I can’t predict how it will unfold, or even what will trigger it. There are too many variables, and there’s always a possibility of totally unexpected and unpredictable events. There may not even be a single obvious flashpoint, like Lexington or Fort Sumter. There may be a slow, gradual increase in violent incidents scattered here and there around the country between government and citizens, none of which would be seen as an obvious trigger.

    I assume that Federal agencies like the FBI and ATF would side with the Federal government. The big question mark to me is how the military and National Guard would respond. Would they side with the established government or with the Constitution? I’ve read opinions that argue for both possibilities. I don’t know. It’s also possible that the military could fragment, with some officers and units going one way and some the other.

    Another uncertainty is how local police forces would react. That may depend on where you live. I don’t know about my own local police.

    Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I’m not welcoming this or looking forward to it at all. I live in the Philadelphia suburbs, so I could well find myself on the front lines or even behind enemy lines. My own county voted for Obama by a large margin, and the next county closer to Philly voted for him by an overwhelming margin. There are an awful lot of leftists and ignorant idiots around me. If the SHTF, I will probably have a short life expectancy.

  59. rickl Says:

    Artfldgr Says:
    May 6th, 2009 at 2:15 pm & 2:27 pm

    Which of your old posts are you referring to? I would really like to read them. I don’t know whether or not I saw them the first time around.

  60. Occam's Beard Says:

    Lots of talk of civil war in the air. Surprisingly, if Barry is right, it may be blacks and white vs. liberals.

  61. Artfldgr Says:

    back when i was laying out the iran war situation. i pointed out that the attempt to close the door would result in every burner turned on and so everything will fly forward IF we were prevented from iraq.

    back then it sounded crazy, now. well, now people want to read it. just as back then when the financial guy predicted the burst bubble, everyone on fox laubhed or got on his case, later he still was working, and ihavent seen those laughing people again.

    civil war and that kind of thing is what they want. the minute it happens, we have accepted that the old system has no power to resolve issues within its framework… we prove their false point (seemingly). which is why they protest when debate would do. debate accepts that the system can be reformed over time, and so revutionary change is not needed since the basis of that point is that the prior pwer doesnt change and so has to be overthrown, usurped, replaced, etc.

    so, if we fall into the same behavior, then the other side of the equation has in behavior accepted that the system is defunct.

    failure to see the forces arrayed aroud you in a chess game means failure to win

  62. Artfldgr Says:

    I have known people who were born and raised in Eastern Europe during the time of Communism (Poland, Bulgaria and the Czech Republic).

    so can their children…

    its the delusional that can twist reality in such a way that they share the same mass delusion that hides things in front of them. the collectivists do what they are told, even if that is being told what to see, beleive, and do.

    experience (empiricism) means nothing sicne they have redefined the perception of reality. through words and games they have changed the cable feed to a matrix kind of delusion. which is why that movie resonates. resonating movies sell big, even if those watching dont get why? rocky horrors success is easy to understand if you know the story of teh frankfurt school, otherwise they dont know but assert they do.

    in this blog i have always reffered to expeience, a quick glance will show that the self confidence movements purpose was to get people confident in the dreams as being valid over empiricism, and to make equivalent what cant be.


  63. Artfldgr Says:

    They accused bush of doing it, since they are planning it and they feared that the other side being like them would pre-empt them.

    doesnt hillaries tears mean something different now as i said then? she was no crying for us, she was crying that she was not the hero of the new state who created it and would be imortal rather than a flunky. thats something that a megalomaniacle sociopath WOULD cry for.

  64. Artfldgr Says:

    once it gets to the point the media can not cover for him it’s going to be a shocker to many.

    i would read the quote by Goebbles on this… it says what will happen.

    everyone quotes the first part, and stops there.
    here is the whole thing

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

    The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie.

    It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent

    that is, exterminate them with extreme prejudice as enemies of the state. maybe call them right wing extremists, no one will check the creds and history of who is sacrificed to inform the rest of the extent of the change.

    “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”

    “Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”

    “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”

    “If the German people lay down their weapons, the Soviets, according to the agreement between Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin, would occupy all of East and Southeast Europe along with the greater part of the Reich. An iron curtain would fall over this enormous territory controlled by the Soviet Union, behind which nations would be slaughtered.”

    he may have been an evil man, but was he right?

    just as engles described the holocaust, and the word was made up to hide the dialogue, such quotes as this now, tend to not be so distant

    “If the day should ever come when we [the Nazis] must go, if some day we are compelled to leave the scene of history, we will slam the door so hard that the universe will shake and mankind will stand back in stupefaction..”

    and to Obama’s Populism…

    “Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street.”

    “If we are attacked we can only defend ourselves with guns not with butter.”

  65. br549 Says:

    gcotharn said robbery. I have been thinking theft, as have many for quite some time. But no, it is indeed robbery. And in plain sight.

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