July 2nd, 2009

End22: is this why Obama supports Zelaya?

This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen online—a movement to repeal the 22nd amendment. You know, the one that limits a president to two terms.

Think it can’t happen here? Think again. These people set up this group on Obama’s inauguration day. I’m fairly certain it’s a very small movement now. But this can grow, depending on how much money they get to spread their message. It’s a move for Zelaya-style “democracy” in this country.

Who’s really behind it? You can bet your bottom dollar it’s not the group they themselves describe:

Launched on January 20, 2009, the day of Barack Obama’s first inauguration, END22.com was founded by a group of ordinary Americans: Democrats, Republicans and Independents, who found common ground in their belief that the Twenty-Second Amendment to the United States Constitution is unnecessarily restrictive and takes away the basic right that we may select the person of our choice to lead us.

It is our belief that the American People are wise enough to choose our own leader and to decide how long that leader will serve.

We do not believe that it is wise, particularly in a time of great crisis, to prohibit the American People from choosing a President that can help guide us out of that crisis. As Franklin D. Roosevelt lead us out of the Great Depression and through World War II, Barack Obama now leads us through a new Economic Crisis and is the Commander in Chief in our War on Terror.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

74 Responses to “End22: is this why Obama supports Zelaya?”

  1. Occam's Beard Says:

    Neo, one of our comrades on the previous thread argued that Zelaya was merely promulgating a “non-binding referendum.”

    I considered responding that suppose George Bush had done that in, say, October 2008. Would the comrade have interpreted that as a simple request for information, or perhaps seen it as a bit more?

    Hell, I would have seen it as alarming.

  2. Oldflyer Says:

    Thanks Neo, you made my day.

    I am trying to shake a cold; I just had a relapse.

  3. Charles Says:

    Any time an organization calls itself “grassroots” I think of how so many communists countries called themselves “democratic.”

  4. br549 Says:

    To state the obvious, does anyone wonder why Obama supports Zelaya? It’s a cinch this “grass roots” group does. Not Zelaya per se, but the “dream”. Once the 1st and 2nd are trashed, the term limits will be gone.

    Not only is eight years enough for ANY president, it’s enough for any senator, any member of the house. I DO like senators and congressman to be elected in midterm type elections.

  5. Noma Says:

    I’ve linked.

  6. strcpy Says:

    I’ll wait a bit here – I know that these types of groups were formed for Clinton and Bush the Younger too. In neither case did the elected officials support them (indeed, I bet Bush wishes they had all just disappeared).

    Every congress will also have a bill introduced to remove the 22’nd amendment too, so don’t get worked up on that unless it makes it out of sub-committee. Most chairmen just shuffle it to the bottom of the pile every meeting.

    I do suspect that someday we will have a real problem with it and Obama could well be that – nothing wrong with saying “watch this group”.

  7. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Those other groups have access to the ACORN bank account and the mainstream media?

  8. SteveH Says:

    I have this theory that its the utter outrageousness of this administration that provides its best cover. I mean, for those in denial of who and what Obama is turning out to be, they get sent deeper in denial by the very thought they weren’t just wrong, but disturbingly so.

  9. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    Obama & Co. are really playing a brilliant game, and have so many facets to their broad-based, comprehensive and swift attacks on our freedoms, democracy and the Constitution that it is hard to know which attack to pay attention to first—and that is obviously part of their strategy–to overwhelm us, to drown us in detail, to attack so quickly, from so many angles, from so many sources, that we cannot comprehend the true nature and scope of the attack, much less determine real from fake, important from unimportant, signal from noise until it is too late. They have and are very brilliantly “getting inside our OODA loop” (http://tinyurl.com/5w6vqc).

  10. Richard Aubrey Says:

    But there is the fable of the Gordian Knot.

  11. Michael Says:

    People I know can’t understand how a person like Hitler came to be. These are the same people who refuse to look at what is happening today.

    Don’t get me wrong. They worry about bad things that you can see everyday. What they do not understand these same people would make great concentration camp guards. For the good of society, mind you.

    Years ago people would call me and tell me that President Clinton would somehow declare Martial Law and there would never be elections again. I laughed.

    Later others called me and told me about the same thing President Bush. I laughed.

    Now I feel that I am nervously whistling past the graveyard.

  12. neo-neocon Says:

    strcpy: I believe this movement may be different, and I’ll tell you why:

    (1) it ties into the hero worship of Obama (cult of personality; the others didn’t have that)

    (2) the site leans heavily not on the principle of the thing, but on Obama himself and how much we need him in this crisis. This is very different from some sort of abstract argument favoring pure democracy.

    (3) I believe that this is also Obama’s agenda, and that there may be big big bucks behind it this time. I have no proof whatsoever of that, but it ties in with a lot of other things that have happened in terms of financial support for Obama.

    (4) Obama’s defense of Zelaya ties into it as well.

    (5) forces behind Obama have shown themselves to be very good at grass-roots and internet organizing. This has only been possible in recent years, and they have mastered it.

  13. Gorgasal Says:

    The website does not look like the slick job done by other Obama-supporting grassroots organizations – rather like somebody is still stuck in the 1990s.

    A Whois search tells us that the domain is registered to “END22.COM, 277 North Avenue, Lower Level, New Rochelle, NY” with the phone number 914-576-5090. Googling that phone number leads to some outfit called “Foy Management Inc.”, 56 Harrison St Fl 4, New Rochelle, with the very same phone number. However, I find nothing on Foy Management.

  14. Tim P Says:

    While I have to agree with you that 8 years is enough for a president, a jog which ages people in dog years, I have to disagree with you that it’s, “it’s enough for any senator, any member of the house.”

    Here is my reason why. If we limit the terms of our elected representatives, then the only Washington players with long (i.e. over eight years) institutional memory are the bureaucrats.

    Bureaucrats are not elected. And in the event of conflict with elected representatives, they know they can wait them out and just keep on going. We would have no way to remove them. At least with elected members, there is an option every two or six years, depending on which legislative body they are in.

    Additionally, while we are on the topic, senators, as the constitution was originally written, were not elected. “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.”

    The 17th amendment in 1913 changed the constitution to provide for the direct election of senators. Note that that was the same year that income tax was first collected, thanks to the 16th amendment, also ratified in 1913.

    Not that there’s any significance, other than that there was, at the time, a reformist democrat majority in congress and a new reformist (also democrat) president, Woodrow Wilson. We all know how Wilson’s initiatives turned out.

    To wit;

    He publicly advocated neutrality, but secretly sided with the allies and worked behind the scenes to insure America would enter the war on England’s side.
    To that effect, the Lusitania, which was secretly loaded with munitions and flying a British flag, was allowed to take on numerous American passengers and was deliberately sailed into known dangerous waters despite a printed warning by the Germans.

    Wilson and the democrats also brought us the espionage act of 1917 and the sedition act of 1918 in which opponents of the war were imprisoned and all dissent stifled.

    Then of course we have the Palmer Raids in which Wilson warned, “Hyphenated Americans (who) have poured the poison of disloyalty into the very arteries of our national life. Such creatures of passion, disloyalty and anarchy must be crushed out.”

    Lest we forget, he also brought us prohibition in 1919 with the 18th amendment. Though to Wilson’s credit, it was done over his veto.

    And last, but certainly not least was Wilson’s failure to forge a lasting settlement of WWI with his 14 points peace program and his futile dream of a “League of Nations”, which even his own country would not join.

    The resemblance to our so called reformist president, with his narcissistic arrogance and his present super-majority in congress is scary.

    Wilson’s legacy, the “manufacture of consent” and the inevitability of WWI.

  15. Scottie Says:

    I think I’ll add to my stockpile of ammo and canned meat…the kids can just start sharing a room so I can have more storage space!

    More seriously though, these kinds of groups are ALWAYS portrayed as “fringe” groups – until they obtain power or achieve their singular goal.

    Of course, then it’s too late to take them seriously and stop them.

    Better to take them seriously now, and poke a hole in this particular trial balloon, than to ignore them until we look up and realize they’ve accomplished their goal.

  16. Tim P Says:

    That’s, “inevitability of WWII.”
    And early in the comment, “a job which ages people in dog years”.

    Sorry about that.

  17. CV Says:

    I would LOVE to know who is really behind this “movement.” Interesting that it instantly appeared on inauguration day.

    If, as strcpy says, this proposal were ever to make its way out of subcommittee to be placed for a real vote, I think it could be the kind of thing that might force the sleeping giant to sit up and say, “hey, wait a minute…!” After all, we already have increasing numbers of people unhappy with his policies but not quite ready to say they are unhappy with The One just yet.

    Unless of course it might eventually be buried in reams of pages of a bill that has to be passed NOW before anyone has time to read it…

    Hey….WAIT a minute! 🙂

  18. Richard Aubrey Says:

    I asked my congressman’s office what his position was on the bill.
    They’ll get back to me.
    So, once it’s passed, we need the conventions. Not looking forward to the MSM’s reporting on those.

  19. Cake Says:

    I heard that Obama is a Moon Man and that after the 2012 end of the Maya Calender all the planes that leave chemtrails in the sky that make me sick will swoop down and carry us away to toil forever in the dark Moon Mines under his moon castle and we’ll all have to dig up diamonds that the Trilateral Commission uses to build weather control machines for the HAARP project and we’ll have nothing but moon cakes to eat in the mines and that might sound good but it’s not good because moon cake tastes bad despite its delicious name..

  20. Cake Says:

    You can tell he’s a moon man because Barack HUSSEIN Obama is a traditional moon man name.

  21. Cake Says:

    “Obama’s defense of Zelaya ties into it as well.”

    Obama is defending Zelaya because Zelaya is a lizard man overlord of Mars who are the traditional allies of the Moon Men and both are secret leaders of the Council on Foreign Relations and together with George Soros run the White Castle hamburger chain which is a front for the Hollow Earth which is where the Nazi-piloted UFOs fly out of every night through their bases at the north and south pole, or did you think that Robert Scott really died from the cold? no it was the Nazis and Free Masons or maybe a shoggoth but I’m pretty sure that moon cake is made of moon rocks which is why NASA made astronaut ice cream so the astronauts would have something tasty to eat not just moon cake when they were fighting the moon men on the moon.

  22. Cake Says:

    I’m pretty sure that barack HUSSEIN “Moon King IV” Obama did not release his nirth certificate because it would say clearly on it “I AM A MOON MAN” and then we’re all know his secret but now he’s president so we’ll never know for sure except I do know for sure because who else but a moon man would plot to take us to the moon to be his moon slaves? A moon man, that’s who so it does not make much difference if he repeals the 22 amendments because he’ll have taken us to the moon by then anyway hey maybe Obama was one of the aliens from the Roswell crash which would make a lot of sense because we all know that the Martian lizard men and the Saturnians are way too clever to be captured but Obama was captured and he made a deal with J. Edgar Hoover to eat Jimmy Hoffa alive so they could never find the body and in exchange Hoover agreed to build a dam where Obama could have a secret base and plot to take over the country which he did in 1987 but we didn’t find out about it until this year because the FEC is run by, obviously, the Queen of England and the Rothschilds and the Rosicruscians and the Hollow Earth Nazis and I think we can all agree THEY don’t want us finding out about the moon men because then we couldn’t go back on the gold standard.

  23. Tom Says:

    Newsmax reports that in today’s Gibbsy’ press conference it came up that Rep. Steny Hoyer supports repeal of 22.

    Pinheads like Cake aside, END22 is gathering momentum.

  24. gcotharn Says:

    “a time of great crisis”


    Another instance of unconsciously diminishing – in the minds of the public – the seriousness of what a “crisis” actually is. When everything is sexism or racism: nothing is sexism or racism. When everything is torture: nothing is torture. When GWB is a fascist, the true victims of fascism are demeaned; the true horror of fascism is diminished.

    Crisis? Yawn. Whatever. Toss me a beer, will ya?

  25. vanderleun Says:

    Hummm. Time for a little more digging into Foy Management Inc.

    Although I can see the reasons behind it, the website itself gives off just a faint whiff of “we’re doing this to take money off the credulous.”

  26. I R A Darth Aggie Says:

    There are two methods of proposing an amendment to the US Constitution:

    1. 2/3s vote in House (290 yeas) and Senate (67 yeas)
    2. 2/3s of the state legislatures (33) call for a Constitutional Convention to propose one or more amendments

    Ratification requires a 3/4ths approval by the states (38).

    Currently, the breakdown in the House is 255-178 and 2 vacancies. In the Senate, it is 58-40 and 2 independents. According to my math, no such amendment can escape out via action by Congress.

    And I’d be seriously impressed if the states could get that many votes on record for a Constitutional Convention.

    While it should be opposed strenuously, it doesn’t have much of a chance at happening. Hey, how’s that amendment coming to repeal the Electorial College?

  27. Occam's Beard Says:

    And, of course, the only intellectually honest policy would be that such a change in either Presidential term limits or Electoral College procedure should only be implemented after the incumbent President is out of office for good.

    So we can rule that out as a Dem position.

  28. vanderleun Says:

    Foy Management of New Rochelle (which is just down the road from Serrano’s 16th district) did receive a small business loan of 50,000 at the end of 2007 for 2008.


    Whois extended information also shows that somebody with access powers changed something in the registration information earlier today.

    Last update of whois database: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:24:53 UTC

  29. vanderleun Says:

    Add on to that the information from a reverse ip lookup


    There are 76 domains hosted on this IP address. 
Here are a few of them:
    1. Barack3rdterm.com
    2. Barack3rdterm.net
    3. Barack3rdterm.org
    4. 73 more…

  30. vanderleun Says:

    Perhaps those with more MADSKILLZ than I will be able to winkle out more of them.

    However, this thread now comes up very near the top of a google query for end22.com so its a safe bet that folks behind end22.com are watching this thread.


  31. Nick Says:

    Hi folks, I think this discussion is a *little* ridiculous at this point. There’s all kinds of nuts online for all kinds of causes, to link this to President Obama is, well, ridiculous.

    Also, A little fact checking goes a long way;

    End22.com Whois lookup report

    277 North Avenue
    Lower Level
    New Rochelle, NY New York

    Registrar: DOTSTER
    Domain Name: END22.COM
    Created on: 07-DEC-08
    Expires on: 07-DEC-09
    Last Updated on: 19-DEC-08

    Administrative, Technical Contact:
    Administrator, Site whoisadmin@end22.com
    277 North Avenue
    Lower Level
    New Rochelle, NY New York

    As you can see, the group was created online on December 7, 2008, not Jan 20th as described by the blogger.

    Also, the ominous question of who these people are, well, there’s their address and phone #. If you have questions, give them a call, send them an email, go to their offices at
    277 North Avenue
    Lower Level
    New Rochelle, NY New York.

    I don’t work for any of these guys (I’m a cook of all things), but it’s really easy to get whois info on a website. This blog post didn’t offer any usefull information, and it seems that the poster wasn’t interested in finding out about these guys, they just want people to be scared of them.

    Don’t be so lazy.

  32. Occam's Beard Says:

    However, this thread now comes up very near the top of a google query for end22.com so its a safe bet that folks behind end22.com are watching this thread.

    I for one want to say what a great job I think President Obama is doing, how good he is for America, how lucky we’d be to have him President for Life, and how well-toned his wife’s arms are.

    (Think they bought it?)

  33. Tim P Says:

    As regards the 22nd amendment and two terms for a president, I am for it. The Congress passed the amendment on March 21, 1947. Mostly as a slap at Roosevelt.

    Dwight D. Eisenhower, the first president to whom the amendment applied, expressed concern over the erosion of a second-term president’s power and influence, as the president becomes a political lame duck.[Wiki quote]

    Jefferson said on the matter, “if some termination to the services of the chief Magistrate be not fixed by the Constitution, or supplied by practice, his office, nominally four years, will in fact become for life.”

    Washington declined a third term as did Jefferson’s immediate successors, James Madison and James Monroe.

    Until FDR, no president had run for more than two (consecutive) terms. It was the undeclared limit. In 1940, FDR became the only president to be elected to a third term. In the 1944 election, he won a fourth term, but suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and died in office the following year.

    FDR’s supporters cited the war in Europe as a reason for breaking with precedent. What crisis will be used as an excuse in this day & age?

    The possibility of a demagogue is always present. Two terms for a president is not unreasonable. Congress however should not, in my opinion be limited in the number of terms they can serve.

    That said, not only Obama, but today’s hard left democrats scare me. I hope everyone is writing their elected representatives. They need to know that we are paying attention.

  34. Artfldgr Says:

    obama is opposing the idea of a protesting group against the state that is valid. that is, he wants to eradicate all reasonable doubt when people protest and he labels them. iran, and honduras add reasonable doubt as to the asserted purposes by the state.

  35. Foxfier Says:

    Don’t be so lazy; that information was already listed above you, in the comments. Same ones that point out the number leads to “Foy Management of New Rochelle,” among other information.

    L2reed b4 insults.

    Additionally: it is the group themselves who say they were “launched” on the 20th. This doesn’t mean “we bought the web site and set it up that very same day!”– it probably means either “we put up the site on the 20th” or “we really wanted a good story, and this sounded very moving.”

  36. ELC Says:

    Repeal the 22nd Amendment because a single-digit unemployment rate isn’t nearly high enough!

  37. Occam's Beard Says:

    Let’s increase the unemployment rate a bit in November 2010.

  38. aperiozar Says:

    You know what, you didn’t become a NeoCon because you “saw the light”. You became a NeoCon because deep down you always were one. The darkness, the lies, the greed, the abuse of power of the NeoCon world always appealed to you.

  39. Jay Guevara Says:

    Another communist larva.

  40. harry McHitlerburtonstein Says:

    Yeah neo. So there!

  41. neo-neocon Says:

    aperiozar: I don’t usually respond to trolls, but I can’t resist in this case. You’ve found me out! I want to return from the Dark Side—help me take the mask off!

  42. Occam's Beard Says:

    The darkness, the lies, the greed, the abuse of power of the NeoCon world always appealed to you.

    You say that as though it’s a bad thing.

  43. csimon Says:

    “t is our belief that the American People are wise enough to choose our own leader and to decide how long that leader will serve.”

    Yep, fellow citizens. We sure proved that, didn’t we?!

    “We do not believe that it is wise… to prohibit the American People from choosing a President that can help guide us out of that crisis.”

    I can conceive of people forming such a group on Jan. 20, 2009 (considering the bizarre Obamamania that existed at this time) and it scares the heck out of me (espec. considering so many of the things we all discussed on this blog last year, and really thought could never happen — have come to pass….in spades! NO pun intended. Partic. no un-P.C. pun that might come to mind), but is this braintrust still at it after watcing this guy in action over the last six months???? Even Helen Thomas gets that things are not “kosher!”

  44. csimon Says:

    But then again, Bloomberg managed to change the term limit law here in NYC just in time for mayoral election season!

  45. SteveH Says:

    Maybe if the seas haven’t obeyed and receded by 2016 we may have to take a second look at this 22nd ammendment.

  46. Artfldgr Says:

    aperiozar is a practiced user of the farce.

    two for Occam

    “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man” Friedrich Nietzsche

    The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.” Camus

    and one for aperiozar if he wishes to thing about what he wrote in context with motive.

    “All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.” Buddha

    also for him
    “The rebel can never find peace. He knows what is good and, despite himself, does evil. The value which supports him is never given to him once and for all” camus

    4 fun

    “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.” Shakespeare…

    “Evil is whatever distracts.” Kafka

    “The devil was the first democrat” Lord Byron

    “The devil’s voice is sweet to hear.” Stephen King

    “The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.”

    “No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks” mary shelly

    Evil is done without effort, naturally, it is the working of fate; good is always the product of an art” Baudelaire

    Ignorance of all things is an evil neither terrible nor excessive, nor yet the greatest of all; but great cleverness and much learning, if they be accompanied by a bad training, are a much greater misfortune.” plato

    “For where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defense.” Dante Alighieri

    Evil is something you recognize immediately you see it: it works through charm” brian masters

  47. Occam's Beard Says:

    “Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man” Friedrich Nietzsche

    Thanks, Art. Got any good quotes/aphorisms about “change?” /g

  48. Foxfier Says:

    I’ve got one!

    “My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday.”
    GK Chesterton, New York Times Magazine, 2/11/23

  49. Steve Says:

    Amendments must be ratified by 3/4 of states. With the country evenly divided and Obama’s approval rating dropping steadily, I doubt even half the states would vote to repeal this amendment. I agree with you though that Obama would like to be king for life. He is a joke though and I doubt he will get reelected.

  50. neo-neocon » Blog Archive » End22: is this why Obama supports Zelaya? « Obamabidenforchange.com Says:

    […] Go here to read the rest: neo-neocon » Blog Archive » End22: is this why Obama supports Zelaya? […]

  51. Proletariat Blog » Blog Archive » The Coup that wasn’t - the musings of worker7219-12 Says:

    […] ally himself with leftist dictators because he longs to be one? It would make things easier for him in transforming America. Continuismo – the tendency of heads of state to extend their rule indefinitely – has been the […]

  52. Oblio Says:

    I’m with Darth Aggie and Steve, the math is not encouraging for these would-be prophets of a new Louis Napoleon, especially if you consider that as many people strongly disapprove of Mr. Obama as strongly approve of him.

    The simplest explanation is there is no plan; the Lefties are just trying all the doors and windows of power to see whether any are unlocked. It’s what they do.

  53. greydruid Says:

    Don’t worry too much about the 22nd amendment being appealed. Snopes shows that there have been repeated, constant, and fruitless efforts to repeal it since at least the Bush-41 years, including Clinton’s term and Bush-43’s.

  54. greydruid Says:

    EDIT: “repealed,” not “appealed”.

  55. strcpy Says:

    “strcpy: I believe this movement may be different, and I’ll tell you why:”

    As is also why I said worrying about isn’t exactly wrong either – but I’ll give it a bit more time.

    “(1) it ties into the hero worship of Obama (cult of personality; the others didn’t have that)”

    I do not know – Clinton had it on a weaker scale but with MANY more people. Few would have fought him, many would now.

    “(2) the site leans heavily not on the principle of the thing, but on Obama himself and how much we need him in this crisis. This is very different from some sort of abstract argument favoring pure democracy.”

    in the effort of not repeating myself – see below.

    “(3) I believe that this is also Obama’s agenda, and that there may be big big bucks behind it this time. I have no proof whatsoever of that, but it ties in with a lot of other things that have happened in terms of financial support for Obama.”

    And it may not. My point was step back and calm down, it’s not the first or last time. Nor is it the first or last time lists about why it is different this time and imminent have been around for a while. More on that in a moment too.

    “(4) Obama’s defense of Zelaya ties into it as well.”

    For whatever reason the global community has decided to support him. I bet his support has more to do with that than anything.

    “(5) forces behind Obama have shown themselves to be very good at grass-roots and internet organizing. This has only been possible in recent years, and they have mastered it.”

    And, this bring me to the “in a moment” story.

    Lets go back to the year 1992 and an incident called “Ruby Ridge”, too much to put in here but go read that. It is something truly chilling what our govt did for political reasons. Now, keep in mind that politically active conservatives knew all about this at the time and were … horrified. Many political active people now sorta kinda recall it but that we pre-9/11 so not too well. If this story was coming out about Obama now – I shudder to think what we would do.

    Fast forward to 1993 – not that much time has passed and we get the big Waco Texas thing. Take into account Ruby Ridge with what the govt did there. Take into account how easy it would have been to apprehend him without blood shed. Take into account that (just as above) after the account it turns out the govt was less than accurate and assaulted them.

    Now, again lets go forward a bit more – 1995 and the Oklahoma City Bombing. Take the furor being driven towards people who own guns, state militias (and 99.999% of those people are patriots that would have happily branded the bomber traitors and executed them), and conservatives in general. The Una-bomber was almost never even mentioned he was a left wing nut case – that is all you heard about McVeigh/Nichols.

    Now look at the race to ban guns – not ones criminals were using (as is now obvious even obvious to most that supported it back then through ignorance) but removal from *our* hands. Most felt (and I still do) that they were tests to see how the public would react and the reaction stopped them.

    Given Ruby Ridge, Waco, the sheer unchecked/unopposed propaganda being put out and the general indifference to outright support from well over 80% of the population and it wasn’t a fun time to be in. I’m not terribly optimistic about many things – the economy is one and, yes, I think a revolution is eventually going to happen (not necessarily armed and bloody, but a revolution none the less). But that a lots better than in the 90’s and I figured it was all going to end with a whimper.

    So, I’ve seen worse. I felt MUCH more scared then simply because there was no real opposition. Now we are fairly well split, while around half have drunk the kool-aid the other half hasn’t and knows it. Back then half had drunk the kool-aid, almost half said “What Kool-aid – back to TV”, and a tiny minority were terrified about what they saw coming down the line. It took a HUGE amount of work and money to get that turned and, in fact, it really wasn’t till after 9/11 that many decided to actually look instead of float along.

    Those incidents for those few years were truly scary. I also think they somewhat learned their lesson and are going for a different type of power grab (at least at first – Ruby Ridges will occur again if they get their way and that will be when the revolution starts). In this case I would rather it be them “testing the waters” again as those incidents were the impetus for them to loose the fight so strongly that a super-majority of democrats can not pass *any* anti-gun legislation and, indeed, have passed *pro-gun*. If it’s just cooks doing something then they are being smart and biding their time.

    As such, calm down and just wait a bit.

  56. huxley Says:

    The simplest explanation is there is no plan; the Lefties are just trying all the doors and windows of power to see whether any are unlocked. It’s what they do.

    Love that!

  57. huxley Says:

    I just rented The Petrified Forest and the DVD contained newsreel footage from 1936. Much of it was about FDR working to pull America out of the Great Depression.

    Now I understand that FDR’s efforts are questioned in their effectiveness, but nonetheless it was clear that FDR cared about America and had some sort of moral compass.

    Today Obama and the Democrats are slipstreaming like crazy on FDR and the Depression, but God help me I can’t detect any of FDR’s sincerity or sense.

  58. Oblio Says:

    If you want to see something really scary, go here.


  59. Cylar Says:

    I haven’t read the above comments, but remember that amending the Const. requires not only 2/3 of both houses of Congress, but also 3/4 of the state legislatures.

    Yeah. Good luck with that last part, Obama. You’re going to need it.

  60. Cylar Says:

    Pop quiz, everyone. Who was the only US president to serve two NON-CONSECUTIVE terms? Ah ah! No Googling allowed!

    “We do not believe that it is wise… to prohibit the American People from choosing a President that can help guide us out of that crisis.”

    That sounds like the same horseshit that is trotted out whenever someone mentions term limits on Congressmen. “Let the people vote for whom they want” and all that.

    Hogwash. Experience at what, precisely? Spending our money? Introducing ham-handed legislation that uses a sledgehammer to solve a scalpel-type problem? Forming quid-pro-quo’s with special interests?

    It’s only more so with the President…someone who’s supposed to be commanding the military, representing us to other nations, and generally leading the free world.

    There is absolutely no reason that even the best presidents should serve longer than eight years. Politicians and diapers should be changed often, and for the same reason.

  61. Maggie's Farm Says:

    Friday morning/Thurs. nite links…

    Heading up to Watch Hill (RI) tonite for a few days of boating, fishing, clam-eating, drinking, and skirt-chasing (despite the cold weather, fog, and rain). Hope all have a fine American weekend, wherever you may be on Gaia.

  62. br549 Says:

    Tim P, you just had to mention bureaucrats.

  63. Deborah Says:

    “Even Helen Thomas gets that things are not “kosher!”

    They’re slow, but sometimes they do catch on….eventually.

  64. Artfldgr Says:

    “The art of progress is to preserve order amid change.” Alfred North Whitehead

    “If the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts.”
    Albert Einstein

    “Change is scientific, progress is ethical; change is indubitable, whereas progress is a matter of controversy.” Bertrand Russell

    i had to throw this one in

    I like villains because there’s something so attractive about a committed person — they have a plan, an ideology, no matter how twisted. They’re motivated. Russel Crowe

    “Nothing changes more constantly than the past; for the past that influences our lives does not consist of what happened, but of what men believe happened.”

    To change and to change for the better are two different things.” German proverb

    Nothing’s ever really changed. What difference does it make whether it’s the Corporate state or the Nation state? In our struggle for freedom we still find ourselves fighting the state.”

    We must become the change we want to see.” Mahatma Gandhi

    The main dangers in this life are the people who want to change everything – or nothing.” Nancy Witcher Astor, Viscountess

    Politicians are like diapers. They both need changing regularly and for the same reason.”

    “When it becomes more difficult to suffer than to change … you will change.” Dr. Robert Anthony

    “Anything you want to do, do it. Want to change the world? There’s nothing to it!”

    Tolerate, change, or be grateful.”

    “It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory.”W. Edwards Deming

    “I don’t believe that the big men, the politicians and the capitalists alone are guilty of the war. Oh, no, the little man is just as keen, otherwise the people of the world would have risen in revolt long ago! There is an urge and rage in people to destroy, to kill, to murder, and until all mankind, without exception, undergoes a great change, wars will be waged, everything that has been built up, cultivated and grown, will be destroyed and disfigured, after which mankind will have to begin all over again.” Anne Frank

  65. waltj Says:

    Cylar 04:39:

    Grover Cleveland, officially counted as no. 22 and no. 24. I’ve known that one since 6th Grade.

    Regarding the provenance of the end22 website, the listed site administrator may be just that, the techie who built the site, but knows next to nothing about the aims of the group sponsoring the site, who’s behind it, where the money is coming from, etc. As long as he gets paid, he may not care. But he could also be intimately involved in the substantive matters of the site as well. That’s something a simple whois search won’t tell you.

  66. Helen Says:

    War on Terror? I thought that was a Bushite invention. What has made it real all of a sudden? (As if I didn’t know.)

  67. Tatyana Says:

    *csimon: that was my first thought, too – about Mike Bloomberg and his indispensable service!

    OK, there is a counter proposition regarding Obama’s future (and let’s not wait till 2012). I vote with two hands for this.

  68. Tim P Says:

    br549 Says:

    Tim P, you just had to mention bureaucrats.

    I know, sorry about that. I always feel like I should shower after using that term.


    Earlier you said, “I believe this movement may be different…”

    Perhaps for now, but earlier this morning I read that Obama now has more who strongly disagree with his policies than who agree. In every age group except those 26 and under and in that group the split is close. (sorry couldn’t find the link) I suspect that as Obama and the hard left’s economic course continues to take us on a crash trajectory, more and more people will turn against him. I also suspect that those who smoked the ‘hopium’ and became enraptured with the twin chimeras of hope & change will turn against him with equal zeal as the reality of a bad economy hits home, literally.

    What worries me is that the republicans will have learned nothing and in the next two elections, manage to provide no hope or change. I hope I’m wrong, but I worry that I may be right.

    What I think made this time different, not only about repealing term limits for presidents, was the..
    1. outright obvious and active support of the MSM, way over anything in the past
    2. the brazen vote fraud (Gregiore in Wa. in 2004, Franken in Minn., ACORN, etc)
    3. the level of personal attacks and scorched earth politics of personal destruction (e.g. Palin)
    4. The massive run-around McCain-Feingold and the ever increasing all importance of mass amounts of money, just to run.

    Finally, I think that the difference and increased effort is a sign of desperation and a realization, conscious or not, that the left’s ideas are a miserable failure, hence the renewed effort to saddle us with them before it’s too late.

    Despite the MSM cheering and the economic problems, the only reason the left were able to sell this snake oil to a majority of Americans in 2008 is because of the miserable failure of the republicans and the Bush administration in articulating their vision, goals and ideas and their feeding (via earmarks , etc.) like hogs at the trough. Again, just my opinion.

  69. Tim P Says:

    Here’s the link I was referring to in my comment above. Sorry about any inaccuracies, I was going from memory.

  70. Fausta’s Blog » Blog Archive » #Honduras under state of emergency while Chavez talks bloodbath Says:

    […] I changed the title of the post after reconsidering ——————————————— More commentary A ‘coup’ in Honduras? Nonsense. Don’t believe the myth. The arrest of President Zelaya represents the triumph of the rule of law. Who cares about Honduras? Obama ‘meddles’ in Honduras — and chooses the wrong side Is this why Obama supports Zelaya? […]

  71. davidt Says:

    What about an ammendment to limit a President to one term?

  72. Third (4th & 5th) Time the Charm? « Association of Free Citizens Says:

    […] (4th & 5th) Time the Charm? Via Dr. Sanity and NeoNeocon comes this astonishing but unsurprising development: Repeal the 22nd Amendment.   It would be […]

  73. AntonioSosa Says:

    I hope the Courts protect the U.S. and the world from an enemy of the U.S. like Obama. I can’t believe that people in the U.S. were manipulated just like people in Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador to put a Marxist in power.

    Through “perfect” campaigns of lies, manipulation, intimidation and fraud, Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, Rafael Correa and other Marxists were elected in Latin America and they are now DICTATORS.

    The similarities between Rafael Correa’s campaign for president of Ecuador and that of Obama for U.S. president were amazing. Correa had no experience but was young, “charismatic” and had good speaking skills. Correa’s slogans were the same as Obama’s: CHANGE, YES WE CAN, etc.

    Informed Ecuadorians were not able to convince their clueless compatriots that Correa was a fake and not the wonderful savior the media was portraying. They could not compete in ads with the millions Correa had (mostly from unknown sources).

    Once he took over, Correa dissolved Congress and took control of the legislative and judicial powers. The CHANGE has been toward Marxism and greater poverty.

    Americans turned out to be as clueless as the most ignorant people in Ecuador. They did not realize that Obama is a Marxists with ties to Islamic terrorists, just like Castro, Chavez, Morales, Correa.

  74. AntonioSosa Says:

    Many of us coming from Latin America wish we could have done what Hondurans are doing before the Marxist thugs working for Castro and Chavez enslaved our countries. We also see great similarities between the campaigns and strategies of those thugs and Obama’s.

    Wiser than other Latin Americans, Hondurans have laws that defend them from the fraudulent scheme devised by Castro to impose Marxism with “democratic” elections and referendums. Hondurans have seen this strategy unfold in the countries being destroyed by the Marxist thugs headed by Castro/Chavez. They don’t want the tragedy of those countries repeated in Honduras. They would rather be isolated for a few years than enslaved for more than 50 like the Cubans!

    Castro’s scheme, implemented by Chavez, Morales, Correa, Zelaya, etc. — (and Obama?) –works along these lines:

    1. Select a wannabe dictator — a “charismatic” and depraved megalomaniac who is ready to sell out his country (like Chavez, Morales, Correa, Zelaya). Help him run for president of the country.

    2. Invest millions in a “professional” campaign demonizing the opposition and promising CHANGE to help the poor, end corruption, improve schools… whatever people want to hear.

    3. Commit as much fraud as possible to make sure the wannabe dictator wins.

    4. Have “protectors of human rights” like Insulza (OAS) — who have really been trampling on human rights by promoting communism for years — declare that the elections were “legal and transparent.” Carter has also been used to do this dirty job.

    5. Make sure that, once in power, the wannabe dictator takes over the Legislative and Judicial branches of power, destroys the country’s institutions, intimidates and controls the media, and demonizes, intimidates and even kills anyone trying to defend the country.

    6. Have a referendum to approve a new constitution. Representatives of the people are supposed to write that constitution. In reality, people don’t even know what’s in the new constitution, which is written by Spaniards working for Castro/Chavez before the wannabe dictator even “runs” for office.

    7. Have Insulza (OAS) and others who pretend to “protect human rights” declare that the referendum is perfectly “legal and transparent.” Carter are also does this dirty job, and so would Oscar Arias.

    The goal of the new constitution is to help the wannabe dictator become a full-blown dictator for life (like Castro in Cuba), prevent people from defending themselves, and use the country to help drug cartels, Islamic terrorists, etc. to destroy the U.S. And all of it under the cloak of “democracy”!

    Hondurans were able to save themselves from the clutches of Chavez because Zelaya had not yet been able to take control of the Legislative and Judicial branches of power.

    Congratulations, Hondurans! Many of us wish we could have done what you are doing before the Marxist thugs working for Castro and Chavez enslaved our countries.

    We hope Hondurans can defend themselves from Chavez/Zelaya/Obama now working under the sheep’s clothing of Oscar Arias.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.

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