Obligatory Palin thread of the day
This’ll be short: reading about the Palin interview today, it strikes me that Palin really is a maverick.
The New Neo
A blog about political change, among other things
This’ll be short: reading about the Palin interview today, it strikes me that Palin really is a maverick.
I love how the author inserts the comment “There is no “Department of Law” at the White House.” Just in case the reader didn’t get that Sarah Palin made ANOTHER HORRIFFIC GAFFE. Because you know it’s OK if the reader doesn’t get it, but if Palin does, it’s disqualifying for office. Of course, the reader is not running for office, but that doesn’t matter. They can still sit in judgement and imagine that they would do things much, much better.
Contrast this to the Bill Clinton’s interview with Sanjay Gupta, where he refers multiple times to embryos that “aren’t fertilized”. This after representing himself as “someone who had studied this” issue of stem cell research.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2009/03/12/cnns-gupta-fails-correct-bill-clinton-s-multiple-fertilized-gaffe
It’s a crap story with the usual Lamestream Media gotcha and misrepresentations of what she said. However, she actually said:
“I said before I stood in front of the mic the other day, you know, politically speaking — if I die, I die. So be it,” Palin said.
Not really a sentiment you can build a conservative movement on.
Her political career is as dead as the salmon she is fileting.
So, wtf was that Palin thing all about anyhow.
Gray, if you don’t know what that Palin thing is all about I doubt that anyone is going to waste time trying to enlighten you now.
Whether Palin ever enters the arena again she has taught a lot of people a valuable lesson about where our society is right now. And we don’t like it. If the American people now stand up and ask “Whose country is this? Does it belong to the political and chattering class? Are graduates of approved universities who speak only New York, Boston, or DC the only ones allowed a voice? Don’t the people who fight the wars, do the work and pay the bills have a say?”, then Sarah Palin will have made a lasting contribution. Millions of people are gaining a clear understanding that if we don’t fight back against the knuckle-dragging thugs disguised as intellectual elites when they set out to destroy effective, but “common” people , then our country is going to go the way of so many formerly robust Republics. The Palinophobics are proud because they believe they have brought down a charismatic politician. They have accomplished something else also; they have angered ordinary Americans. Look out for unintended consequences. You may have real cause to say “wtf?”.
I don’t know if Sarah Palin herself will have much effect. But her candidacy illuminated bigotries and contradictions in American politics that have provided new understanding for those who dare observe. Conservatives have learned that there are a fair number of Republicans, and even a type of old-style conservative, who cannot abide the least whiff of populism. They wrinkle their noses just like liberals when they encounter it. Good to know. A large number of regular folk who weren’t that interested or knowledgeable about politics have learned how much the elites really hate them. And decent old-line liberals, especially feminists, have suddenly seen how vicious their allies are.
OTOH, a lot of people were reminded that regular folk are actually the ones who get things accomplished in this country, like oil pipeline deals with Canada. I guess Spiro was right about “effete intellectuals” after all.
I don’t have much sympathy with populism myself, neither from the left nor the right. Palin doesn’t look much like my ideal candidate. But the depth of hatred has been enlightening; and, I am more than ever convinced that even if she were the simple, incurious* buffoon she is accused of being, she’d be a better president that a roomful of smart liberals.
*incurious is a new elitist insult meaning “doesn’t read Urdu poetry.”
Diane Sawyer is a snake in the grass. And fingernails on a chalkboard. Is ANYONE in media as condescending and snaky as she? She breathes it: inhale, exhale, repeat ….
The more I’ve re-listened/re-read Palin from Friday, the more clearly I see this:
She will attempt to become a national voice and a national leader who advocates conservative principles(and naturally opposes Barack Obama’s lack of conservative principles).
If she catches on as a national voice and national leader: she will run for President – maybe in 2012, maybe later. If she doesn’t catch on as a national voice and national leader, then “if I die, I die. So be it.”
If she doesn’t catch on, then she was never meant to catch on, and was never going to win the Presidency anyway. From her strategic perspective: if she doesn’t catch on as a national voice, she has lost nothing. In other words, in such circumstance: she could have stayed Governor, and made a Presidential run, yet it would have failed. If she is ever going to have a legit chance at POTUS, then she will catch on as a national voice, and her opportunity to speak out in unconstrained fashion will strengthen her legit chance to win the Presidency.
If she never catches on: she has lost nothing, she is happier, her family is wealthier, Alaska is better off than it would have been if she had stayed on as a lame duck, Alaska Repubs are better off b/c the Repub. Lt. Gov. now has a better shot at being elected Gov.
Strategically, Palin has made a bold and audacious move which is worthy of Gen Stonewall Jackson or Gen. George Patton. She has picked up her army, and is marching it hard towards the opposite end of the Shenandoah Valley. Sarah Palin is an American original. If she didn’t exist we would wish to invent her. She is one of the few truly heroic figures – whom children can look up to – in existence today.
The strategic risk, which must exist in order for Palin’s strategic choice to be bold, is that she is teaching the left and the critics and the legal terrorists that they can defeat a Repub if they bring enough pressure (financial, personal, legal, verbal assault upon a candidate’s children, governing assault [gridlock] upon a candidate’s constituency) to bear upon that candidate and upon his or her loved ones. This is a dangerous precedent to set. The danger of it – the possibility that Palin’s choice will do long term harm to Republicans – is part of what makes Palin’s choice either bold, or a selfish strategic miscalculation.
In the end, I like her choice. Her situation was somewhat unique. I would not have sacrificed my family for the possibility (possibility, only) of helping Repub candidates defy critics and legal terrorists over the long term.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last note: it is said – including by me – that Palin faces dishonorable legal actions which impose unfair legal bills upon her. All true.
However, the very notoriety which spawned the dishonorable legal actions also spawns opportunity for Palin to make her book deal and to give lucrative speeches. Even after paying her legal bills, she and her family will emerge in significantly better financial condition than they otherwise would have. And I already see left persons (both bloggers, and the wealthy Diane Sawyer) bemoaning Sarah Palin’s pending acquisition of minor wealth. Hilarious. I can’t think of any left person moaning and carping which I have more enjoyed.
Anyway, Sarah Palin truly found herself in unique circumstances. She could not take full advantage without making her audacious and worthy strategic move. Looking at everything – from her responsibility to Alaska, to her responsibility to her family, to her Golden Rule responsibility to Repubs: the foolish strategic move would have been to maintain status quo as Governor.
Sarah and Todd have said this choice has been under consideration for some weeks. Was this really a flighty and knee jerk decision? Or, was Sarah Palin taking counsel from Todd, and considering the strategic landscape for some weeks, and did she actually have a clearer strategic vision than her myriad critics now do? Is she more knee jerk and reactionary, or more courageous, or simply more strategically clear eyed?
“somewhat unique”
Ugh. I am embarrassed.
“Is she more knee jerk and reactionary, or more courageous, or simply more strategically clear eyed?
I think that Palin has with great reluctance embraced two truths that Republicans have wanted to deny. The first is that the game of American politics familiar to us since Kennedy’s time now has largely degenerated into an array of illusory conventions that only the frivolous or the timid follow, and that only the unimaginative or the weak-minded analyze. The second is that she faces not conventional party opponents, but deadly enemies in both parties, who will never act gallantly, honorably or in good faith. Her understanding of the environment in which she will operate is, I think, immeasurably more sophisticated than that of conventional political analysts because she can see what their now almost fossilized assumptions conceal from them. Life has given her the best possible traits, education and experience to prevail in, and to shape, the chaotic environment in which she now will fight. What she knows, no school can teach, and we will see things that no one has seen before. You are right, I think, to look to military examples for insights. I think of the Letterman episode that proceeded her decision as a successful test of how effectively her weapons could penetrate a laminate armor composed of respectability, sophistication and coolness.
gcotharn Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 4:39 pm…
Well put. No need to be embarrassed either…
I think we got a first taste of what is to come in the future in the Time magazine interview here.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1908983,00.html
Whether Palin ever enters the arena again she has taught a lot of people a valuable lesson about where our society is right now.
I thought conservatives eschewed symbolism over substance.
So if she is the Right’s “Obama”, their Obama won, as he obscenely reminds us. Or is she going to be more like the Right’s Al Sharpton?
You cannot defeat the left by adopting their tactics.
The Palinophobics are proud because they believe they have brought down a charismatic politician.
But they didn’t even have to “bring her down” she got down all by herself. She resigned. Quit.
Ecgbright:
It would be exciting if yours is a correct assessment. I’m hoping it is.
Most of the critical commentary assumes she has lost a potential Presidency via resigning as Governor. Alaskan Chica can read political polls and assess political prospects. If she were on track, as Governor, to become POTUS, then she might have stayed as Governor. I suspect she was not on track to become POTUS, and therefore is not losing a potential Presidency via resigning her Governorship.
turfmann,
Thank you. And thanks for the excellent link.
Actually, there is a law office in the White House. They write briefs in Austrian that are read by not incurious people in all 57 states.
This is a good thread, especially gcotharn at 4:39 pm. There’s not a whole lot I can add to it.
FWIW, I wrote a (snail mail) letter to Gov. Palin three days after the election, thanking her for running and offering my best wishes to her and her family. I’ve never done anything like that before with any other political figure. I wonder how many similar letters and e-mails she received? I hope it was millions. I strongly suspect I was not the only person who came up with that idea.
Quitter or not, I don’t regret writing that letter at all and still stand by it.
Anybody counting Palin out of anything already is mighty hasty. Off the top of my head I can think of Lincoln, FDR, Nixon, and Reagan who had been counted out. A lot of things, including Palin and Obama, are going to look very different a few years from now.
“Whether Palin ever enters the arena again she has taught a lot of people a valuable lesson about where our society is right now.”
I thought conservatives eschewed symbolism over substance.
The claim that people have learned a lot from the Palin experience does not seem to me to be a claim that she is a symbol. Whether conservatives eschew symbolism over substance is, I suppose, debatable. But it couldn’t be debated with somebody who doesn’t know the difference between one and the other.
I find Palin’s unorthodoxy to be a breath of fresh air.
Somebody needs to tell republican strategist that a prevent defense doesn’t work when your team is behind.
Ricki, I wrote a letter similar to yours and about the same time. I have never regretted it.
In my letter I stated that I would not blame her if she were so disgusted with national politics that she turned her back; but if she chose to continue, she would have my support. I still feel the same.
Every time I read someone call her a quitter, I wonder about that person. What have they strived for in their own lives? Have they thrown themselves into the arena? How much adversity have they faced, and how did they handle it? Would they put their personal ambition ahead of their family’s welfare and happiness? Do they understand someone who enters public life to do something, rather than to be someone? What options would they select if it became clear they would not be allowed to do the job they were expected and paid to do? Would they pretend to do the job, and take the pay check under false pretenses? Do they have a clue? Or do they just sit in the bleachers and scream scorn and invective at the people who actually play the game or fight the fight–while pretending to be warriors? I can almost see them dressed up like some bizzaro sports fan, a Raider or a Viking, screaming and cursing as though they make a difference; knowing all along somewhere deep inside that they do not have the testicles or intestinal fortitude (depending on gender) to actually enter the fray.
Every time I read someone call her a quitter, I wonder about that person.
A person can be an absolute couch potato and declare her political career dead.
Stop engaging in the dirty, dirty identity politics. That’s what leftists do!
“Everytime I read someone committed a crime, I wonder about that person, about their childhood. Did they had midnight basketball? Did they have a good childhood?
You don’t have to be a striver-inna-arena-governor-wise-latina-with-life-history to make judgements of good and bad.
You cannot defeat the dirty leftists by adopting their tactics.
The claim that people have learned a lot from the Palin experience does not seem to me to be a claim that she is a symbol.
Well, seeing as how she hasn’t literally “taught a lesson about where society is now”. Then she’s representative of something. A symbol.
“But it can’t be debated with somebody who doesn’t know the difference between one and the other.”
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=1951
Governor Palin Mourns Loss of Fort Richardson Paratroopers
This is why you don’t quit.
Some Republican Standard Bearer Who Resigned Her Governorship Mourns Loss of Fort Richardson Paratroopers.
It doesn’t really have the same weight, does it?
I guess she did the right thing for her and her family, but all we have is one less governor who supports the troops and their mission.
(full disclosure–I was at Ft Richardson for training this time last year.
I actually met Gov Palin, (and Geo Bush) before she joined the R ticket, at Eilson AFB on his way to the China Cheat-a-lympics. After meeting her, I said “I wish McCain would pick her for VP, she’s great!”
I didn’t know these particular guys; I’m saddened nonetheless. I’d feel very, very bad if my pals from “FT Rich” were killed. I worry….)
Somebody needs to tell republican strategist that a prevent defense doesn’t work when your team is behind.
But quitting and walking off the field is a great strategy?
Why didn’t Tony Dungy think of that!? His book should have been all about Quitting to Win!
This is f’ing insane.
Really, the world has gone mad:
Taxing is Investing; Withdrawing is Advancing; Unemployment is Working; Wind is Oil; Cooling is Heating; More Polar Bears is Less Polar Bears; Bicycles are Cars and Quitting is Winning.
And while I’m thread-hogging–VDH just nails it. I think everyone here will enjoy this (except the dirty lefties):
http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/what-is-wisdom%e2%80%94sarah-palin-and-her-critics/
“So I am afraid right now, but not of Sarah Palin.”
Gray, all great persons were quitters by your standards. Why did Ronald Reagan walk out on acting? Why did Abe Lincoln just fold up on being a lawyer? Why did Tony Dungee give up on coaching high school football?
It aint over till its over. Your prematurity smacks of immaturity in how the world works and life unfolds.
Well, Gray you feel that even a couch-potato has the privilege of labeling those who strive, but don’t finish. Sounds as though you are speaking from experience. Or perhaps you would like to share a personal vignette of an instance when you persevered through extreme adversity?
Governor Palin gave us her reasons. They seem valid to me. Have you considered them at all? After mature reflection do you discount them? Or do you reject them out of hand, because it is easier to make judgments if your mind isn’t cluttered by all of those facts?
Wait. Don’t answer. Those are rhetorical questions. I think we have actually heard enough from you by now.
Gray is scared of a good woman. Needs to put her down. No substance – only fear…
Gray,
If Tony Dungy AND his staff were spending 80% of his time and millions responding to idiots like you….
He would be noble for stepping aside and giving the organization back so that it could remotely have a chance at being successful.
Because you have such a lack of a connection in your brain about this – you have rendered any opinion of yours suspect.
Well, Gray you feel that even a couch-potato has the privilege of labeling those who strive, but don’t finish. Sounds as though you are speaking from experience.
No. Stop engaging in identity politics.
This has driven you mad.
I’m on your side you rotten old bastards!
I love how the author inserts the comment “There is no “Department of Law” at the White House.” Just in case the reader didn’t get that Sarah Palin made ANOTHER HORRIFFIC GAFFE.
Or maybe it’s not a gaffe at all. Maybe it’s just a talking too fast way of saying “legal department” – without knowing whether it’s the Office of Legal Counsel or the White House Counsel who would handle this sort of thing. Or maybe Palin called it that because Alaska has a Department of Law headed by the Attorney General who “serves as the legal advisor for the governor and other state officers”.
(Oddly enough, I found this information here. This is an ugly post with mostly nasty commenters but also a couple of knowledgeable ones – who are totally ignored, of course.)
I would advise Governor Palin to stop talking so fast. She needs to give herself time to think.
Gray, I think you should give it a rest. You might be right that Palin is finished. Equally, you might be wrong. I would bet you a beer that she isn’t, and would be happy to drink it with you. You are a good guy, and I like having you on our side.
I thought conservatives eschewed symbolism over substance.
How about having both? Nothing wrong with a little symbolism now and then.
Or is she going to be more like the Right’s Al Sharpton?
Palin is equivalent to Sharpton? I don’t get it.
all we have is one less governor who supports the troops and their mission.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. The guy taking over her job is a Republican and I’ll just bet he supports the troops and their mission.
But they didn’t even have to “bring her down” she got down all by herself. She resigned. Quit.
She resigned from a job for which there is a competent replacement. She didn’t resign from life … or even from politics.
And while I’m thread-hogging—VDH just nails it. I think everyone here will enjoy this (except the dirty lefties)
I read the article. It was very positive about Palin. There’s definitely room under my tent for Sarah. The more the merrier, I say. I wish her well.
Equally, you might be wrong. I would bet you a beer that she isn’t, and would be happy to drink it with you. You are a good guy, and I like having you on our side.
That’s very kind of you. If you ever make it to New Mexico, I will buy the beer. I think we would have an extraordinary amount in common and interesting experiences to keep us up late… drinking beer!
I read the article. It was very positive about Palin. There’s definitely room under my tent for Sarah.
Very true. But does she have a tent for the disaffected “libertarian” conservatives to shelter under?
Not so much, I think….
Well, then here is something contradicting my view of her political demise:
http://www.intrade.com/aav2/trading/contractInfo.jsp?conDetailID=652756&z=1247113045531
Actually better than in December. It would be astounding to see her capitalize on this “disaster”….
It would be the most delicious words I’ve ever eaten.
When I was in college, and I discussed issues with my friends, I would often find myself getting into heated discussions because I would suggest points of view that people just didn’t want to hear. Or ask questions that people didnt quite want to consider. I did this to both my lefty friends and my righty friends. This had me asking my liberal friends (those who often spoke of rights) about the rights of the unborn, and my conservative friends (pro-military) about what purpose was served by excluding gays from the miltary. Often it didn’t even mean I fully agreed with the idea I was proposing, but if I felt there were questions to be asked, I would ask them.
I have some questions and concerns about Sarah Palin, as well as sympathy for her as she faces the liberal media and its bias. I will just put this out here, and hope that its taken for the honest inquiry it is meant to be. (I also apologize if this is more lengthy than I expect.)
When McCain chose Palin to be his running mate, I thought she was a fresh new choice, and was electrified by her convention speech. I liked the fact that she was a conservative maverick who took on the Alaska establishment, and that she was a conservative woman who had the capacity to counter the so-called “breakthrough” aura that the Obama campaign had. Even as she stumbled sometimes, I cheered for her, and enthusiastically voted for McCain-Palin.
But as time went on, I must admit that I was torn between her “positives” and her “negatives.” I think things have polarized in such a way that its difficult for people who support Palin to see her negatives, or those who oppose her to see her positives. There is hatred and contempt on one side, and adulation on the other. One side sees her as an uninformed tart, and the other sees her as an authentic American woman.
I may be the exception, but I’m somewhere down the middle in regard to Palin. I see in her great promise as well as considerable failings. Just this week, I found two articles, both from people deemed to be conservative, who have managed to crystalize both sides of the dispute for me. I encourage everyone to read both of them, because I think there is truth in both.
The “Pro-Palin” article is the Victor David Hansen article mentioned in a previous comment to a previous post on this blog. It can be found here:
Victor David Hansen article
The contrary article is by former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan, and is found here:
Peggy Noonan article
As enthusiastic as I was for her in ’08, the reality is that she came accross as uninformed and not well read. The fact that our opponents in the liberal media, in liberal academia, and among the liberal elites have seized upon this appearance as a basis to attack her should properly cause us to defend Palin when such attacks are out of proportion and unfair. But it doesnt remove the larger question of whether she is, indeed, as unprepared as she appeared.
It is wrong for elitists to assume that those not part of their “circle,” are worthy, and its wrong for the an Ivy League liberal elitist to assume that a non-Ivy Leaguer like Palin is unfit for high office just because she is not one of them. But that doesn’t mean that the opposite is true either: that because her non-Ivy League status enrages those liberal elites, that it automatically means Palin really is fit to be president and well suited for the job. Noonan’s comment, in her article, that “For 30 years the self-esteem movement told the young they’re perfect in every way. It’s yielding something new in history: an entire generation with no proper sense of inadequacy.” rings true. Could it be that, beyond (rightly) defending someone against improper attacks, Palin’s enthusiastic supporters are also assuming that she will be up to the job because she’s an average American, just like them, and that that’s enough?
(As a former enthusiastic supporter, and one who would like to be so again in the future, I’m inclduing myself in this question.)
I think the key thing is whether Palin will learn and develop as a national figure in the next few years. I agree with VDH, when he wrote as follows:
But if, a big if, she decides to become a national political figure, Palin should use these next few years (in addition to making some money to support her family) to travel and read widely in the manner that a Reagan did in his wilderness period. . . . I think most would like to see her do another Couric interview five years from now after she had time to size up DC insiders, meet more politicians, lecture in front of hostile audiences-and just read and reflect.
I would like to see that interview myself. If you read both articles, you will see that VDH and Nonan have opposite views of palin’s intelligence. I think I’ll wait and see that interview in a few years, and make up my mind then.
I hope this is taken in the manner it was meant. Sorry for the excessive length.