July 31st, 2009

Obama and the new template

Commenter Wolla Dalbo wrote of the situation we find ourselves in lately:

I have been arguing here that most of us in the U.S. are applying the old, traditional, and fatally wrong template, the calculus of the usual and the expected, of our past history, the calculus that just assumes a President’s good faith, respect for and adherence to Democracy and the Constitution to Obama and his presidency—and, by doing so, can make little sense of his startling and rapid actions–and that to really understand his actions, we need to apply a new template, one that, unfortunately for us, fits much better, the template of Tyranny, of Dictatorship and of Socialism, Fascism or Marxism for, if we do this, Obama’s actions then become all too understandable, and very ominous; a reality calling for a totally different response from us than usual.

I have come, albeit very reluctantly, to agree with Wolla Dalbo’s evaluation of Obama’s motive and methods. The dilemma is that, once one has crossed over that line into the mindset that Wolla Dalbo describes, what is there to do?

I’m not advocating some sort of armed insurrection. I believe Obama can, and must, be defeated at the polls, and that the same thing has to happen to a significant number of Democrats in Congress. It seems an urgent matter to work for this.

But the blogosphere represents only a small minority of the population. What we have in common here is that we pay more attention than the average person to political and world events; otherwise, we wouldn’t be spending all this time at our computers reading and writing. Whether as a group we’re more intelligent or wiser than people who don’t do this is unknown and unknowable, but we are at the very least more well-informed and more strongly motivated.

Some here (such as Wolla Dalbo, for example) saw Obama as a radical almost from the start of his candidacy, or at least early on. Others (and here I include myself) were troubled by the evidence as it began to amass, but only in the last few months have come over to believing the worst.

And what is “the worst?” For some of us, it’s that Obama is a puppet run by others on the Left who have nefarious plans of various sorts. For some (and again, I’m in this group I’m about to describe) he is mostly his own man, an ideologue of the Left who has grandiose ideas of how he will make this country into something between a European welfare state and Chavez’s Venezuela, grabbing greater and greater power for the executive branch, and cooking the election rules (through redoing the census, relaxing voter registration laws even further, and enlisting the help of ACORN in outright fraud) so thoroughly that he hopes that his wing of the party will never lose control. As for foreign policy, whether Obama be the pawn of others or the master of his own fate, his plan appears to be to weaken the US and its influence on the world stage, bowing to international groups such as the UN and other organizations that feature a preponderance of tyrannies, as well as selling out Israel.

To most people in this country, however, this sounds not only absurd but unhinged. There’s no question that Obama’s approval ratings have fallen, but they are still high. There’s also no question that more and more people have become greatly disillusioned with him, but mainly about his competence in handling the economy (some of them are even on the Left; they’re angry that radical health care reform hasn’t sailed through yet, but I will ignore them for the purposes of this discussion because they would consider the new template a feature rather than a bug).

The gap between the slightly negative point of view that’s growing among the general middle-of-the-road population and the new template I’ve been describing here is far more profound than the difference between “slightly disapprove” and “strongly disapprove.” The “new template” folks have made a leap of non-faith, a statement of lack of basic trust, not just dissatisfaction with the details of one program or another.

I don’t think there’s any way to bridge that gap. The only thing to do is to keep stating the facts and hope that people will come to their own conclusions, sooner rather than later.

But I’m not sure it’s not even necessary to bridge the gap in order to defeat Obama. If enough voters decide, for whatever reason, to turn on the Democrats in Congress in 2010, Obama will find it more difficult to enact his program. And then, in 2012…there’s “hope” that the “change” that year will be his defeat, and the undoing of many if not most of the worst excesses of his time in office.

114 Responses to “Obama and the new template”

  1. physicsguy Says:

    Neo,

    The real problem, in my view, is that those of us who now subscribe to the viewpoint you just expressed end up sounding like the “tin-foil hat brigade” to most other folks.

    I have no troubling with your view of Obama as I have lived for decades within the academic culture where there are literally 50-60 “Obamas” at the school where I teach out of a faculty of 140. I’ve been around his type for a long time. Folks who work in the real world do not come across such people on a regular basis, and therefore have no reference frame to judge him other than his “comforting words” and his deeds. They may not like what he is doing, but it’s a huge leap for them to make to what you or I are proposing about his motives.

  2. neo-neocon Says:

    physics guy: that is exactly and precisely the problem. It is impossible to bridge that gap, as I said. I usually don’t even try, but that can be very frustrating, too.

  3. Baklava Says:

    http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/07/31/a-picture-says-a-thousand-words.php

  4. grackle Says:

    No, there will be no armed insurrection. Yes, Obama CAN be defeated at the polls. That is, if those who are against Obama can unite against him.

    Future Student: But professor, if so many people were against Obama how did he succeed?

    Future professor: Factionalism. Look up “RINO” in your textbook.

  5. gcotharn Says:

    Other factors which cause Americans to trust where trust is unwarranted and in fact foolhardy:

    – complacency: America has (since Reagan) always rolled along strongly and prosperously; it’s difficult to mentally process that America faces an actual and real economic slump; difficult to mentally process a purchasing choice between an I-Phone and food; difficult to mentally process the concept of scarcity.

    – the Democratic Party used to love the America of freedom and free enterprise. The backroom rulers of the Democratic Party could be trusted to never allow an unworthy person to emerge as the candidate of the party. Americans learned to trust this about the Democratic Party. That tradition of trust has remained through the decades, even though it has been undeserved going forward from the 1976 Election. It’s difficult to mentally process that the Democratic Party (and the Repubs, for that matter) could easily and severely damage America.

    – young voters associate the relative trustworthiness of GWB with the political norm. GWB, in terms of doing what he promised to do on the campaign trail, was an aberration in the direction of trustworthiness. Most politicians are far less dependable than GWB was. Young voters have not yet processed this reality. Even older voters, during the recent election, tended to forget this reality(just as older voters forgot the shock of and the seriousness of 9/11/01). GWB spoiled us. After 8 years of GWB, it’s difficult to mentally process a President who is routinely and reflexively deceptive.

  6. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    If you catch Steve Sailer’s book on Obama, he offers a related theory which I think explains much. (I have several disagreements with Sailer, but find him very observant, inventive, and well-evidenced.) Racially, Obama sees himself as a transcendent, unifying figure, able to take us to the next level, the new way. That we can see that this particular new way is very much like one of the old ways doesn’t mean Obama doesn’t believe it. He applies this mixed-race picture of himself to everything. He thinks he’s the Kwisatz Haderach, who will unify all the old templates into one new forward-moving Way. He doesn’t see himself as marxist, but as a fusion president who will unite the socialist and capitalist, black and white, east and west, muslim and christian. He regards the old ways of looking at things as tying him down personally, limiting his scope of action. The rules aren’t for him. Not really.

    But we have been down this road before, and funny how it always ends darn close to the tyrannical socialist campground. Remember the Third Way economics of the 90′s? Yeah, how free market did that end up?

    Here is an interesting contrast. If progressives can find 10% racism in you, then you are “really” a racist. But if you can find 90% socialism in them, they aren’t “really” a socialist.

  7. gcotharn Says:

    nice 1000 word photo essay, Baklava

  8. Anh Says:

    It not just the One that must be defeated. The whole 70′s corruption of American have to be reverse, the “Great Society” socialisms, and the New Deal permissiveness have to be reverse. We can start it all by purging our school system of socialist, and our media of liberals.

  9. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    Actually, I think that the more Obama & Co. acquire a track record—not campaign rhetoric or slogans, but one about issues, policies and actions they have taken that resonate with ordinary people–the easier it will be to chip away at their still high but declining poll numbers. We just need to continually talk up well documented instances; cognitive dissonance is our friend.

    I think that it would be a mistake to—as the Left, the MSM and many on the Right want us to—abandon discussion and analysis of the tissue of lies and omissions that is Obama’s life, and of the “natural born citizen” issue, for if Obama has deliberately built his entire public career on a foundation of lies, continually excavating, pointing out and exposing those lies will eventually contribute to the collapse of his house of cards. (On this issue see these two recent very well written analyses at http://tinyurl.com/njf3wp and http://tinyurl.com/m6u43k .

    The Gates fiasco is very understandable and exposes the falsity of the image created by Obama’s campaign machine of Obama as a “post-racial President.”

    The CBO reports giving the lie to Obama and Democrats projections about the savings that they will be realized if their “health care reforms” are enacted are hard to refute, as are economic series that compare Obama’s budgets with budgets from WWII to the present that are contained in the Federal Budget’s Historical tables and other relevant charts and graphs put out by the St. Louis Federal Reserve.

    Pointing to the amount of debit and deficits Obama and the Democrats have already committed us to, and their likely impact on us and our children and grandchildren is a point that should be emphasized.

    As people if they realize that between them Freddie and Fannie now own something like 66% of the mortgages in this country, and that Obama & Co. recently proposed that those people having trouble paying their mortgages might want to consider giving their homes over to the government, and ,instead, paying the government rent.

    Cap and trade provisions calling for federal energy audits of every home in America prior to sale are something every homeowner can easily understand and be outraged about.

    Videos of Obama stating that he understands that his cap and trade policies are designed to and will inevitably cause “energy prices to skyrocket” and “bankrupt” coal-fired electrical power plants are hard to ignore or refute.

    The paragraph of text on page 16 or thereabouts of the health care bill, that makes it impossible for people to keep their existing health care coverage once they or their provider change even the minutest detail of their policies and procedures, and which contains a ban on any new policies being written by private heath care providers, directly contradicts Obama’s often stated promise that “we can keep our existing health care coverage” and that “he is not trying to put private health insurers out of business.” Rep. Barney Frank yesterday admitted on a video that health care reform was merely the vehicle used to usher in a single payer system and see Pelosi’s rant yesterday, too, about how “immoral” the eevil insurance companies are.

    Everyone who is aging or handicapped can understand what it means that Obama care proposes to cut down on office visits by putting the aged or handicapped in “medical homes” run, not by doctors, but by nurse practitioners, administering “evidence based medicine” approved by a government bureaucracy, and every one knows a hint when they hear of mandatory “end of life counseling” for the aged.

    Ask people to imagine how, if “45 million people are without health insurance,” any new national health care system will take care of 45 million immediate new customers while simultaneously improving care and reducing costs for all the rest of us.

    While you are at it, ask them, too, if they know that somewhere between 12 and 20 million of those 45 million are illegal aliens whose health insurance Obama & Co. wants us to pay for.

  10. roc scssrs Says:

    My hope is that he will wind up a Carter-like figure (without doing as much damage to the country), not an El-Presidente-for-life. One term, then let him live the rest of his life convinced of his superiority to his fellow citizens and their grubby politics. Perhaps that is hoping for too much. What does scare me is the amount of support he has, both of the uninformed variety and of the rabid Left, whose knee-jerk hatred of American institutions (a la Pelosi’s insurance outburst) is astonishing.

  11. Baklava Says:

    gcotharn,

    did you see the Crowley press conference after the beerfest?

    Srgt Crowley directed press like a professional, answered questions succinctly and precisely (like a machine) and briefly.

    At one point, an interrupting member of the press had Crowley turn to him and Crowley asked him if he can wait until he finishes the answer.

    Then Crowley finished the 5 words left and called on that press member.

    It was unlike…. an ∅bama press conference.

    I say:

    Srgt Crowley and Kelly King for President and Vice President… or vice versa.

  12. grackle Says:

    It not just the One that must be defeated. The whole 70’s corruption of American have to be reverse, the “Great Society” socialisms, and the New Deal permissiveness have to be reverse.

    Sounds a bit puritanical to me, actually. But first things first. Let’s start by defeating Obama. Nothing else will be possible unless that first step is accomplished. Later on we can all decide whether to forego “socialisms” and “permissiveness,” the definitions and values of which can vary widely from person to person.

    We can start it all by purging our school system of socialist, and our media of liberals.

    There’s something about the verb, “purge,” that doesn’t set well with me. It has a coercive connotation and brings to mind Stalinism. It’s vaguely suggestive of tribunals and moral presumptuousness.

  13. Thomass Says:

    neo-neocon Says:

    “physics guy: that is exactly and precisely the problem. It is impossible to bridge that gap, as I said. I usually don’t even try, but that can be very frustrating, too.”

    Yeah, but we’ve been here before. President Wilson and FDR come to mind. The same things will undo Obama. He’ll overreach and alienate people (re: FDR created the modern US conservative movement… via his pushy policies). Which will open the path to getting them voted out… even if they do have this media support (which has been this bad in the past… I remember the late 70s).

    Lefties still write that Reagan’s phrase ‘there you go again’ didn’t mean anything. They just don’t get it, he was mocking them for being the robotic PC idiots they always are. If we keep our cool, history will repeat… especially if we realize that and help keep it on course.

    I know what Obama is (I’m one of those children of a refugee from a socialist country)… but it doesn’t matter. He can only go so far and he knows it. We’ll still have elections. They will still loose (like they have in the past) after they muck enough up.

  14. Thomass Says:

    Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    “Here is an interesting contrast. If progressives can find 10% racism in you, then you are “really” a racist. But if you can find 90% socialism in them, they aren’t “really” a socialist.”

    Nah. They’re just lying to you. I live and work in the bay area. Progressives know and admit they’re socialists… when they think everyone around them is one too. At parties and social things, the progressives admit they’re socialists… I see / hear it all the time.

    When they’re in an area where 20% or less of the people are progressives, the story gets changed.

    Keep in mind, democrat and self identified ‘liberals’ don’t necessarily make the cut to being progressives.

  15. physicsguy Says:

    “We’ll still have elections. They will still loose (like they have in the past) after they muck enough up.”

    With the ACORNS set loose on the census, and general voter fraud, are you sure of this scenario? Remember that this is the Chicago style of politics with a far left style… where even the dead get a vote, or three.

    If enough Dems get thrown out in 2010, then there’s a chance to slow this down, but I think we have to watch those elections very closely for fraud.

  16. Thomass Says:

    physicsguy Says:

    “If enough Dems get thrown out in 2010, then there’s a chance to slow this down, but I think we have to watch those elections very closely for fraud.”

    Yeah, there is going to be big fraud. We need to win by good margin to counter it….

  17. Baklava Says:

    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/andrea_mitchell_people_who_have_ins._and_oppose_obamacare_may_not_know_what/

  18. Don Says:

    Obama killing a Jeep (poor Jeep didn’t want to die):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjBilHH5z2A

    It is the now defunct Obama cash for junkers program. The drain the engine oil, replace it with some nasty grit compund, then run the engine until it dies.

    This is not intended as a threadjack; my point is such a video can help people see how stupid Obama’s plans are. They may still think he has godd intensions, but they are more likely to question his decisions.

  19. Oldflyer Says:

    I say to Thomass and Physicsguy that this fight has to be fought at the local and state level. The Black Panther episode in Philadelphia, and the DOJ response, provides a preview of what to expect from the FEDS.

    My wife has been convinced for some time that someone is pulling the strings that make Obama move. I begin to think she is right. The question is, Who?

    Ding, Ding, this is your Captain speaking. “Fasten your seat belts folks, turbulence ahead.”

  20. RickZ Says:

    “I have come, albeit very reluctantly, to agree with Wolla Dalbo’s evaluation of Obama’s motive and methods.”

    See, this is the thing I don’t understand. You’ve only NOW reluctantly come to agree? Where is critical thinking and reasoning these days? Just looking at what we could of Obama’s personal past and political record, I knew he was a racist commie-rat bastard. Of course, in PC society, that is rather rude and impolite. Since when is the Truth rude and impolite? The Truth is what it is. Any projections made onto the Truth are solely upon the persons doing the projecting.

    Ever wonder why we had a presidential candidate who wrote two, count ‘em two, ponderous auto-biographies before the campaign had even begun, but no media people were trotting them out and quoting from them? No one found this odd? “White man’s greed runs a world in need”? Obama, before the campaign, during the campaign, and after the inauguration, has consistently told us what he’ll do, if one was truly listening. Just like Hitler said what he would do. No one listened to him until it was too late. Same with Obama.

    It’s bad, the assault our Consitution is undergoing these days. With every part of our foundations under attack, this cannot end well.

    White Guilt: It’ll kill ya.

  21. neo-neocon Says:

    RickZ: If you read the post you’ll see I say I have come to that view within the last few months, not just recently:

    Others (and here I include myself) were troubled by the evidence as it began to amass, but only in the last few months have come over to believing the worst.

    There’s a difference between “suspect” and “believe.” Obama had to be in office for a while and to have a record of acts as President to make it crystal clear. It was always a good bet that this would happen, however, and if you read my pre-election posts you will see I was very concerned and alarmed about the prospects from quite a ways back. I mentioned many many things that alarmed me about Obama: Wright, Ayers, Annenberg, cap and trade, card check, breaking his campaign finance pledge, his treatment of Alice Palmer—the list goes on and on.

  22. RickZ Says:

    “There’s a difference between “suspect” and “believe.” Obama had to be in office for a while and to have a record of acts as President to make it crystal clear. “

    Tommyrot. What did people think when Obama answered Joe the Plumber with ‘share the wealth’? Ferchrissakes, it was there. But so many are complacent, unaware of how delicate our Freedoms are. Besides, we can’t think ill of the black guy, that would be racist. Well now tell me, just exactly who is the racist?

    Like I said, it was all there, the skimpy track record that it was. And that skimpiness was deliberate on Obama’s part, which should have set off everyone’s alarm bells. Hiding basic stuff like academic and medical records?

    What we have with Obama is a self-created narrative that is totally opposite the actions made. Obama wasn’t voted the most liberal senator just because. The guy voted FOR infanticide (neo-natal abandonment). How much more radical can you get?

    Again, I don’t understand why it took so many so long to see through the hope ‘n’ change bullshit. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

  23. RickZ Says:

    ‘post-natal’. Sorry.

  24. Mr. Frank Says:

    Obama’s response to the Crowley incident supports something I’ve been wondering about since the Rev. Wright revelations. I’m beginning to think that Obama doesn’t like white folks. Among blacks there is a status hierarchy based on skin complexion. Very dark children catch a lot of flak from their peers. On college campuses the elite black sororities tend to select fair complected girls. As one student told me, the ideal is the color of a brown paper bag.

    As part of this, very successful, educated black males tend to marry fair complected black women or white women. For some reason Obama has a wife who is very dark. That is uncommon for a man of his stature. Is he affirming his blackness? Is he uncomfortable with fair complected women? Does he lack self confidence? Is he rejecting his white heritage? Something is going on here.

  25. RickZ Says:

    I think it was your use of the word ‘reluctantly’ that set me off. It’s like you’re still apologetic about understanding the Truth, or something.

    Why would you be reluctant to accept this? Hasn’t History provided enough examples for you to fall back on? Or was the Truth so daunting as to be inconceivable? Well, that was a movie. In real life, anything is conceivable.

  26. George Says:

    To second Mr. Franks’ point – Obama’s memoir is “Dreams of My Father”, not “Dreams of My Mother.” He seems far more focused on the African side of the family. His wife may be an affirmation of that impulse.

  27. Artfldgr Says:

    The dilemma is that, once one has crossed over that line into the mindset that Wolla Dalbo describes, what is there to do?

    anyone want to go way back when i kept describing the real issue and feelings and such that you go through?

    that if you dont believe, you can pretend that the issue doesnt exist. but then the harder part is if you do believe, then you must either give up, or give up and act, but either way, you lose the life and future that you thought you could have.

    now you are starting to get what i was saying a long time ago… BEFORE the election…

    its like i was like i saw us moving past the event horizon… now that we are past it for a while, everone is saying why do i now feel this crushing gravity? why cant i move? why are my options now suddenly gone? well, ya fell into a black hole..

    well lets get out of here!!

    well, ya cant, cause you cant get out if you wait long enough to see the doors close and THEN wake up

    the others around me that could have helped di*ked along and they took me down the toilet with them.

    remember when i described the pail of crabs and that the ones that know and can help cant do anything cause the other crabs dont cooperate, they just pull everyone back in.

    we crossed the event horizon 40 years ago and have lived in denial ever since that a sexual revolution wasnt a velvet revolution, or a septemberist, etc…

    duh… it was considered a revolution beacuse once we passed that threshold and we thought that was the gift of the enlightenment and we didnt get our life knowlge and grounding from the prior generation, we were put in the same position as those who lost those same things through war.

    except the difference is that us refugees knew what we lost and we put it back to gether as best we could as all the liberald teared apart our families changed the laws outside the constitution, and if we said anything..

    we didnt know what we were talking about!!

    people who had been free all their lives for several generations were telling the escapees of despotism what despotism was like and what it wasnt and so on.

    i even got chastized by oblio as to how negative i was (which was ok), and that my points werent being helpful. i answered but i think he missed it. and i explained. and will prove the point here.

    that someone that knows is already in the place where the others have yet to arrive. there was nothing to do but wait till you arrived at the point where you would start to understand and see what i was talkig about rather than tell me that it was impossible out of hand. and oblio thats why use astute people CAN’T help…

    when we abandoned merit, we abandoned all ability to get help from experience! when we accepted pc, we accepted that the collective told us who to listen to. so doubly you couldnt learn from experience that went against the collective order.

    now… soon… ya’ll going to find out what it means to live everything from the state to the state and for the state.

    most people have a scale of things in importance.

    self
    wife
    children
    family
    block
    neighborhood
    state

    or one not to far off.

    now i will give you your new list

    state

    the state comes before you
    and the state comes before your wife and all those other things.

    charity is money to help after expenses.
    taxes is money before expenses.

    the state comes first.

    in the UK girls cant skip rope, skip, run… the boys cant play tag or conkers… we here certainly cant play mumbly peg…

    that is, because the state pays for health care, the state forbids any action that may lead to an accident that they have to pay for. dancing, screw that, they control that with absurd levels of licensing.

    now they are taxing the view from your windo, the size of your balcony, and much more to come.

    go read the non laws which are not being enforced that are unconstitutional. until someone enforces them, they cant be challenged. but if they temporarily suspedn the constitution beacuse we are rioting and such… well then all those unconstitutional laws and things are perfectly fine to use…

    but hey…. why let facts get in the way of a solid belief system?

  28. expat Says:

    Avi’s analysis sounds right to me. It is all about his self image. He has never really stood up for anything in his life. His grand visions of America are not about America, but rather about him as architect. He doesn’t care enough about any issue to stick with it. Instead he just renames the position and uses his “As I said before.”

    I don’t know that there is a coordinated conspiracy of handlers; I tend to think it’s more lots of independently acting flatterers who know how to push his buttons for their own purposes. I think he will give up any goal if it preserves his presidency. Look what he did with the war on terror–same policies with new names. The way to stop him is to get the flatterers to doubt him. Compromise with him on things that will disappoint his leftist fanatics. You will never convince these people to change their minds, but you can get them to stop caring about Obama. The seeds are there: Gay marriage activists are already disillusioned, as are the peaceniks. Health care people won’t be happy with compromises, nor will the environmentalists if cap and trade and Copenhagen go under the bus. When enough compromises have been made, get Rush and Sean to say that it’s great that Obama is finally starting to see the light. That would explode a few brains.

    Of course, you would still need someone on the Rep side to court the Independents by pointing out how e Obama is beginning to doubt his own programs. Get these kinds of messages out:Wouldn’t it be better to elect a person who foresaw such and such a situation and offered better solutions when Obama was still toying around with this or that hare-brained scheme. Guantanamo and the detainees pose a difficult problem–didn’t we tell you that? Signing ceremonies are the easy part. Obama is very good at them. The problem is that Obama doesn’t know what to do after the ceremony. He appoints a czar or a committee to get him out of the mess he caused. I think there will be a point where Independents will be open to a new narrative about The One.

  29. Artfldgr Says:

    like any victim of a robbery.. we are going to just have to live without what was stolen..

    freedom

    and we have to live with that we were tricked out of it, conned, taken advantage of, our goodness was too good.

  30. expat Says:

    George,

    It’s his father’s side that makes him special and sells books. That was probably part of his calculation.

  31. neo-neocon Says:

    RickZ: Are you serious? Why would I be reluctant to accept it? Isn’t it obvious? Because of what it means for our country and our future.

    Nothing to do with it being inconceivable, or ignorance of history. I was and still am fully able to conceive it. And I wrote of my strong suspicions at great length prior to the election.

  32. J. L. Says:

    My previous post is a bit unclear, as I am quoting a quote within a quote. This may be clearer. NeoNeocon, if you could delete the previous version, I’d appreciate it.
    ———————
    grackle Says:

    It not just the One that must be defeated. The whole 70’s corruption of American have to be reverse, the “Great Society” socialisms, and the New Deal permissiveness have to be reverse.

    Sounds a bit puritanical to me, actually. But first things first. Let’s start by defeating Obama. Nothing else will be possible unless that first step is accomplished. Later on we can all decide whether to forego “socialisms” and “permissiveness,” the definitions and values of which can vary widely from person to person.
    ——————————-
    I agree with grackle. I’m just not ready to assert that everything that came out of “progressivisms” throughout the 20th century were wrong. The turn of the century was a time of child labor, lax to nonexistent standards for working conditions and food production, rampant racial discrimination, and women being treated as second class citizens. I have no urge to return to that.

    What I oppose is the agenda most closely identified with the left of the Democratic Party since 1972. The McGovern agenda of not merely a “safety net,” but outright socialism; of replacing a robust foreign policy with one of pacifism and third worldism; of mandatory government action to create enforced equality at the expense of individual freedom. It is also an agenda that is increasingly chracterized by misinformation and falsehood. That is the agenda of Obama, and that is the agenda that I am prepared to fight.

    I am ready, willing, and able to join those who also oppose this agenda, and are ready to tell Obama: “No You Cant.” I will join with everyone from moderate and moderately liberal Democrats who have grown to disagree with Obama, to independents, to centrists, to center-Right Republicans like myself, to libertarians, to those hard-core conservatives, and anyone else who will want to vote against him. Hopefully, there is enough willingness on the parts of anti-Obama people of all stripes to join hands with those with whom they may otheriwse disagree to defeat this threat to American liberty.

  33. GeoPal Says:

    “And then, in 2012…there’s “hope” that the “change” that year will be his defeat, and the undoing of many if not most of the worst excesses of his time in office.”

    I don’t give that much chance – the undoing… excesses. The Left will not give that up and the Right will be cowed as usual. The Left will have grabbed the rhetorical high ground and the Right will contend on those terms. The Left will have incorporated any number of associations (ACORN and more to come) to the cause and the Right will complain. The Left will take advantage of every real crisis and invent new ones. The Right… the hell with the Right.

    Unless, that is, they build their own rhetorical high ground and base it on freedom. If the Right cannot, for whatever reason, make their point, their argument, their stand, on freedom vs. slavery then the Left will have won.

  34. Steve Says:

    I agree with your take on Obama’s motives. I think his undoing may be his legislative incompetence. He does not know how to make deals. If the Republicans dig in their heels and refuse to vote for the big tax and spend programs, Democrats will probably balk out of fear for their own future. There is nothing more pathetic than one party controlling the House, Senate and Presidency and blaming the other party for not getting things done.

  35. J. L. Says:

    Thanks for the deletion neo.

    One correction:

    On my previous post, when I said “The turn of the century . . .”, I meant the turn of the 19th century into the 20th, aka… 1900.

    I’ve forgotten we’ve turned the century twice since then.

  36. Random Electron Says:

    I’m on board…but what are the alternatives? While locally there might be good candidates (although in VA-11th nobody is stepping forward to challenge a freshman Democrat), nationally the pickins’ are slim. While independents may be souring on Obama, that doesn’t mean they are embracing the Republican party. Much like Neo, I am an ex-Democrat and have voted Bush & McCain in the last two elections, but I am not encouraged by what’s happening in the Republican Party.

  37. br549 Says:

    I wish I’d have saved every post I’ve written here since I began visiting. I’d like to dump every one of them out right now. I see what I said months ago repeated. In some cases, what I have been thinking for a couple years about this guy. Not that I am br “cutting edge” 549, but that others too, are feeling and seeing what I feel and see.

    As I have stated before, more than once, there was a time I felt alone in my thoughts about Obama, Pelosi, the crew in general; that perhaps I was just paranoid or something. I have been told by many they felt I was over reacting. In my mind, I felt they were blind. The only thing I’m happy about is knowing I am not the lone ranger.

    I am still amazed at the speed at which he is moving, and the fact it is being accepted as readily as it is. Slightly more than half the people in our nation are heading for the cliff behind him, still. Obama is dangling carrots in front of the faces of particular groups and individuals – buying loyalty. There is a fellow at work who has been looking at new cars on the Internet all day. He wants to cash in his old pickup and buy a new one with the cash for clunkers deal. I don’t own an old clunker. I went out and bought my own vehicle. Why am I paying for his? The people who need to trade in their clunkers to get new cars didn’t vote for McCain – ya think?

    A line will eventually be drawn. It will come to a head. It HAS to. No mas! At what point in time that line is drawn remains to be seen. What will need to be done to firm and hold that line, remains to be seen. As Rush has been saying, achievement is being punished. Further to that, sloth is being rewarded.

    Even if we vote his ass out, and most of the asses off the hill, there are bureaucrats and MSM types still deeply embedded in the beliefs of these far left types who will remain troublesome. They exist in state and local politics as well. It has taken better than a century to arrive at today.

    I firmly believe the group Obama hung around with in his “cool” days really are capable of monstrous things. Will those who do not wish to go that way be forced at some future time to possess that same capability as a counter offensive? As I have said time and again, I have three children and a grandson. It is their futures I am willing to defend. Look what we have done to them already. Look at where we are today, right this minute. We’ve been part and parcel in the screwing over of our own children. Only a fool would strive to succeed in the atmosphere being created, if allowed to continue.

  38. davidt Says:

    To put it simplistic terms:

    If Obama and the Dems are to be defeated at the polls, then the key is voter turn-out, especially considering the fraud factor.

    The key to voter turn-out is the candidate(s) fielded. Democrats win when conservative voters stay home, and conservative voters only turn-out for authentic conservative candidates.

  39. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    It has been said before, and I believe it is probably right, that while Cap and Trade—if passed–can largely be reversed, Health Care Reform—if passed in any form–will kill, and is intended to kill, the private health care insurance industry and our whole existing health care system, and once they are gone the situation will not be able to be reversed, so the defeat of health care reform should be our highest short term priority.

    Right now, it seems as if enough people are getting pissed off and alarmed that there is an outside chance of Republicans taking back the House in 2010, a more likely chance of narrowing Democratic House majorities to a razor’s edge and reducing their Senate majority, thus making passage of Obama’s initiatives much more difficult, or, at least, of aroused and angry citizens frightening sitting members of Congress sufficiently—House members, who have to run for re-election every two years, especially–to make them afraid of the possibility of losing their seats, making them think twice or even three times before voting for any more of Obama’s programs; far Left ideology being as strong as it is in the Democratic Party, I don’t know if just frightening members—a pretty arrogant and insular crew—will be enough.

    Another possibility is for people disgusted–not only with Obama and the Democrats but also with the current Republican crew–to try to unite to form a new Conservative Party, but this seems like a long shot, particularly since the two existing parties have placed all sorts of barriers in the way of successfully winning via a third party.

    Tea Parties, writing letters or emailing or telephoning Congressional offices are not going to be nearly enough, but showing up, armed with the facts, at Congressmen and Senator’s offices to talk to the member and his staff and to protest, showing up in great numbers and protesting at member’s town hall meetings are the way to keep on the pressure; they don’t like having to face angry and no longer apathetic constituents, having to answer questions about pending or passed legislation, and having to explain themselves. The Tea Party march on Washington scheduled for September 12,th while it may be too late to stop cap and trade or health care reform, will, if massive enough, teach members that they are servants, not masters; to be much more effective, the March should be moved up to take place the day Congress comes back from its August recess.

    I think the critical thing before the 2010 and 2012 elections will be to make sure that Obama’s Census head and his other minions running the Census, helped by the 450,000 strong ACORN, the Unions, others from Obama’s newly created “public service organizations,” and his allies on the Left aren’t able to intimidate voters, register hundreds of thousands of phony voters, and steal these elections with the connivance of all the Secretaries of State that the Democrats have concentrated on getting elected in each State. The MSM has super glued itself to Obama, and their fates are intertwined, so they are not going to ferret out or report on any attempts to steal these elections, Hell, Obama’s political appointees at the Justice Department even scuttled the conviction—that they had already won by default—of the Black Panther thugs who threatened voters in Philadelphia in the last election, so, don’t expect any help from that direction.

    Finally, we also need massive numbers of us to wake up and get informed–about our Constitution, our Rights, politics and political systems, our country’s history, current issues and current legislation–sign up to be poll watchers and election officials, to keep our eyes on things, and to protest when we see things that are not right, and to organize, make calls, knock on doors, and get out the vote in these next two critical elections.

  40. grackle Says:

    I think that it would be a mistake to … abandon discussion and analysis of the tissue of lies and omissions that is Obama’s life, and of the “natural born citizen” issue …

    I’m with the commentor on most of what he says but the ‘birther’ theory is a credibility killer. It’s right up there with the 9/11 conspiracies on the Tin-Hat Meter. I say stick to the lies, stick to the omissions if there is something real that should not have been omitted, and keep opposition mainly grounded in fact and differences in philosophy of government.

    I clicked on the links in the comment. The second link leads nowhere. The first link leads to an article by James Lewis entitled, “Obama’s birth debate: It’s about loyalty.” No … not really. The birther conspiracy theory is about Obama not being a citizen of the USA and therefore not eligible to be President. To claim or even imply otherwise is a lie – which is, I thought, one of the things that we all find so troubling about Obama.

    ,,, the Right will be cowed[in the 2010 elections] as usual.

    Interesting take. I’m wondering just how the Right has been “cowed” in previous elections.

    I am an ex-Democrat and have voted Bush & McCain in the last two elections, but I am not encouraged by what’s happening in the Republican Party.

    I too am discouraged by some happenings in the GOP. I would be interested in learning more about the commentor’s views.

  41. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    The “who is really running Obama” question is again a template problem; of the thinkable and possible and the unthinkable and impossible. America is awash in conspiracies—in books, in magazines, on the net, in movies and on TV, so much so that were there a real conspiracy, it would be impossible to sell the idea that it, in fact, existed; we have been inoculated against the idea the actual conspiracies can exist, have been convinced that only “Looney Tunes” types could believe they exist. Unfortunately, they do exist, and there have been successful conspiracies—Communist penetration of the U.S. starting prior to WWII, the Soviet directed “Peace Movement” and Antinuclear Movements in Europe and the U.S. prior to the fall of Communism, and the KGB’s very successful creation, promotion and dissemination of one of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright’s favorite themes—the CIA’s creation of the AIDs virus, a racial weapon designed to kill Blacks–was very slick, indeed, and still lives on. However, rather than the traditional conspiracy, with a head of the conspiracy giving orders from his secret underground HQ, I think that the concept of a “conspiracy of shared values” is a more useful way to think of it; yes, probably some centrally directed organizing and funding help behind the scenes, but more often, people of like indoctrination, mind and conviction acting largely independently of one another to push a shared agenda.

    I don’t know if Obama is his own man or someone else’s witting or unwitting puppet. What I will say is that two particular categories of people pop up in Obama’s life, over and over again—Marxists and Muslims.

  42. jon baker Says:

    The open border. In English, there is some alternative media to oppose the leftist MSM. Some media to wake people up. But who opposes TeleMundo and Univision in spanish? (I hear they are Democratic party friendly.)

    Today in our local paper we were given another warning by a “Latino” columnist that Latinos are growing politically stronger. He cited all kinds of figures then he warned us we better pander to his fellow Latinos.

    Its one (I really want to say something about Hades here) of a thing when a group crashes your border and then warns you better pander to them or else….

  43. TexExec Says:

    As a Texan, I have to admit that I have seriously thought about secession. I know that’s not a realistic option, but I don’t like what this country is becoming…it’s not the country I have loved all my life.

    At the moment, fighting for states rights as our founders intended seems more realistic…and other states are starting to push for it. The best government is the government closest to the governed.

    A better solution than that would be to defeat Obama and the liberal Democrats in 2010 and 2012. If that can’t be done (and I fear that things like voter fraud a la ACORN could keep that from happening), then I think a tax payer strike could work as opposed to some sort of revolution. What if about 1/2 of all taxpayers reduced their withholding to minimum and then didn’t pay their taxes due?

    I’m amazed I’m saying these things but I have come to believe that Obama, his political thugs (who seem more and more like current day Brown Shirts), and Far Left Liberals are destroying this country.

  44. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    grackle–sorry about the bad link, Tinyurl doesn’t seem to be working, try going to the nationalreview.com article of 7/30 by Andrew C. McCarthy titled, “Suborned in the U.S.A.”

  45. jon baker Says:

    TexExec,
    A couple of weeks ago I was at a restaurant with a group of people. Sucession came up. no one opposed and most agreed.

    As a fellow Texan, I say look around. Given the amount of Red, white and GREEN flags, you know we would have to fight a war against our neighbors to keep our independence from Mexico.

    I love the US. And I love Texas. But Mexico and the North American Union will never have my loyalty.

  46. jon baker Says:

    Here is another part of the template: it turns out that in order for the Auto Dealers to use the Cash for Clunkers program, they have to agree that the computer they use for the interaction with the government BELONGS to the government and all files on it!

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2009/07/31/beck-exposes-cash-clunkers-language-giving-feds-authority-take-control-co

  47. Thomass Says:

    About healthcare ‘reform’ being one way… since they are backdooring it via a government insurance policy it can be undone for awhile… just stop offering the ‘public’ option government healthcare and buy private instead for the same people…

  48. Tim P Says:

    An interesting aside, go to this link and look at the photo. Notice Obama’s body language and then scroll down and look at Bush.
    a picture really is worth a thousand words.

  49. grackle Says:

    Today in our local paper we were given another warning by a “Latino” columnist that Latinos are growing politically stronger. He cited all kinds of figures then he warned us we better pander to his fellow Latinos.

    Its one (I really want to say something about Hades here) of a thing when a group crashes your border and then warns you better pander to them or else….

    The commentor rhetorically confuses illegal workers(“a group[that] crashes your border”) with legitimate American citizens(the Latino columnist’s “fellow” Latinos) whose ancestors may have been here in America before his, a common occurrence that infuriates many Latino voters. I don’t think Latinos want to be pandered to so much as to not be constantly insulted by an attitude typified by the comment above.

    Demagoging on the immigration issue by certain Republican politicians and conservative pundits is losing the Latino vote for the GOP. Latino voters are the fastest growing voting bloc in America – ask ANY demographic expert.

    If the Republicans want to win another national election they had better pay attention to those “figures” and warnings of which the commentor is so contemptuous. These warnings, by the way, have also been given by anglo writers, not just Latino columnists.

    Let me put this way: In the next Presidential election, even if the Republicans run an otherwise perfect campaign, if the GOP Presidential ticket doesn’t get more of the Latino vote than it did in the last election the Republicans will likely lose again. If that is what the GOP wants, to lose another Presidential race, all they have to do is continue to alienate the Latino voters.

  50. jon baker Says:

    Grackle said” The commentor rhetorically confuses illegal workers(“a group[that] crashes your border”) with legitimate American citizens(the Latino columnist’s “fellow” Latinos) whose ancestors may have been here in America before his, a common occurrence that infuriates many Latino voters. I don’t think Latinos want to be pandered to so much as to not be constantly insulted by an attitude typified by the comment above. ” then said “If the Republicans want to win another national election they had better pay attention to those “figures” and warnings of which the commentor is so contemptuous. ”

    #1 I was not being ” contemptous” of those figures. I am well aware of them. I see them every day.

    #2 “Those whose ancestors may have been here in America before his” are not the driving force of #1. The open border is.

    This is what drives me crazy. The pretending that the exploding “latino” population is not connected to the open border.

    Grackle said : “I don’t think Latinos want to be pandered to so much as to not be constantly insulted by an attitude typified by the comment above. ”

    Except that we are constantly told that if we oppose “immigration reform” we will loose the Latino vote.

  51. rickl Says:

    Neo said:

    I’m not advocating some sort of armed insurrection. I believe Obama can, and must, be defeated at the polls, and that the same thing has to happen to a significant number of Democrats in Congress. It seems an urgent matter to work for this.

    Yes, I’m all in favor of defeating Obamunism at the polls. (The term refers to Obama AND his fellow travelers.)

    But with billions of taxpayer dollars going to ACORN; the adamant opposition of Democrats to any voter ID requirement; the curious disinterest of the FEC in Obama’s fundraising practices in the 2008 campaign; the Justice Department allowing Black Panther voter intimidation to go unpunished; the takeover of the census by Obama, Emmanuel, and ACORN; the brazen theft of elections by Democrats in recent years in Washington and Minnesota; the clear support by Obama of an attempted coup by a leftist in Honduras; and the total acquiescence and obfuscation by the media in all of this; I no longer have any confidence that future elections in the United States will be free and fair.

    And that leaves only one alternative.

  52. jon baker Says:

    Here Grackle, here is a link to the article I read in todays paper. You read it and tell me its not both a demand for pandering and a threat. The article in entitled ” The Giant is Still sleeping” :
    http://www.creators.com/opinion/miguel-perez.html

  53. grackle Says:

    grackle–sorry about the bad link, Tinyurl doesn’t seem to be working, try going to the nationalreview.com article of 7/30 by Andrew C. McCarthy titled, “Suborned in the U.S.A.”

    Wolla, I did read the McCarthy article – it was linked to in the first paragraph of the American Thinker article, ”Obama’s birth debate: It’s about loyalty.”

    McCarthy is a good writer; I’ve enjoyed his articles and find his appearances on Fox mainly edifying but he is not infallible. To treat the birthers as anything but a boon to the Democrats, even as a hook to get folks to read the article, is a mistake. The sub-title to the article, “The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born,” is just flat-out wrong.

    In the article McCarthy is careful to withhold credence to the birthers:

    The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.

    That “crazy stuff” is exactly what the birthers are all about. No amount of denial can change that. NRO should know better.

  54. jon baker Says:

    Tell us Grackle, why is a demand for the president of the US to release his actual birth certificate crazy?

  55. rickl Says:

    I don’t consider myself a birther in that I’m not obsessed by it; Obama’s own acts every day are much more disturbing than the question of where he is really from.

    The thing that really drives me up the wall is that so many people pooh-pooh it, like it really doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. It’s yet another example of the Constitution being trivialized and marginalized.

    Modern politicians seem to regard the Constitution as an inconvenient impediment, and spend their time thinking of ways to get around it.

  56. grackle Says:

    And that leaves only one alternative.

    Isn’t this how Timothy McVeigh got started?

  57. grackle Says:

    Tell us Grackle, why is a demand for the president of the US to release his actual birth certificate crazy?

    I didn’t say it was crazy, Andrew McCarthy did, I merely quoted McCarthy. But since you seem to have an interest in my opinion: I think the birthers play right into Obama’s hand. He can point to them and say, “See – I keep telling you the Republicans are idiots. Their coziness with these conspiracy theorists prove it.”

  58. jon baker Says:

    Somebody at work had a good quote the other day: ” Just because you are paranoid, doesn’t mean they are not out to get you.”

    With conspiracy theories we could say ” Just because it sounds like a conspiracy theory, doesn’t mean its not true.”

  59. MikeLL Says:

    The other night I watched Chris Matthews head explode while talking about the “Birther” issue. He was practicaly spitting on the camera.

    It can’t be a bad thing if it throws liberals into such fits of anger. Even if it is stupid, I still love to see them squirm.

  60. rickl Says:

    grackle Says:
    August 1st, 2009 at 12:58 am
    And that leaves only one alternative.

    Isn’t this how Timothy McVeigh got started?

    Does the name Jayna Davis ring a bell? Oh, never mind, she’s already gone down the memory hole. Did you even bother to read my previous paragraph?

    Demagoging on the immigration issue by certain Republican politicians and conservative pundits is losing the Latino vote for the GOP. Latino voters are the fastest growing voting bloc in America – ask ANY demographic expert.

    Oh, great. Mexicans have done such a wonderful job of governing their own country that they’re fleeing here en masse to inflict their socialist voting predilections on us. And the only way Republicans can win elections in the future is to pander to them. Have I got that right?

  61. MikeLL Says:

    What is wrong with insurrection? Isn’t that what is going on in Iran?

    Would our military fire on citizens? I wonder.

  62. Darrell Says:

    MikeLL, No.

  63. MikeLL Says:

    Darrell,

    I don’t think so either. So here is the plan:

    Burn down the capital building and put heads on spikes on the capital mall.

    Seems simple.

  64. rickl Says:

    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”
    –Thomas Jefferson, 1787

    From where I’m sitting, the tree of liberty is getting mighty thirsty.

  65. MikeLL Says:

    I was being flippant above, but you have to start wondering how much is enough.

  66. Nolanimrod Says:

    Thanks, Neo. I was starting to think I’d gone a little gazincko. I keep waiting for the Hindenberg moment, when The .01 just has to assume all powers himself and what’s left of the government is afraid to tell him no.

  67. grackle Says:

    #1 I was not being ” contemptous” of those figures. I am well aware of them. I see them every day.

    I didn’t say the commentor was contemptuous of “figures;” clearly it was the article itself, characterized by the commentor as a “warning,” that the commentor found to be not to his liking. The figures are indisputable.

    #2 “Those whose ancestors may have been here in America before his” are not the driving force of #1. The open border is.

    I’m wondering which border is it that the commentor thinks is “open.”

    This is what drives me crazy. The pretending that the exploding “latino” population is not connected to the open border.

    Contrary to what the commentor seems to imply the Latino voting bloc is not populated by illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants exist as a shadow population with no voting rights and no active effect on political events. The Latino voting bloc, on the other hand, is composed of legitimate citizens who happen to be of Latin extraction, most of whose ancestors have been here for many generations – at least as long as the Italians, Irish, Polish, etc.

    [Grackle – earlier]: I don’t think Latinos want to be pandered to so much as to not be constantly insulted by an attitude typified by the comment above.

    Except that we are constantly told that if we oppose “immigration reform” we will loose the Latino vote.

    Opposition is one thing, demagoging is quite another. In the past certain Republican politicians found that by using immigration reform as a wedge issue they could gain a temporary advantage. They did their handiwork well. But the dog they whelped turned around and bit the GOP in the butt in the last election. “Shamnesty” is a noose that will hang the Republicans unless they change their attitude.

    Readers, just before the next election the Democrats intend to hold hearings on immigration reform. Understand – the Democrats are NOT going to sponsor any actual legislation – oh no – they just want to hold hearings on the subject. They want to get as many Republicans as possible in front of the cameras as they pontificate on the issue.

    The Democrats don’t really want immigration reform, you see. Allowing the issue to be resolved with common sense legislation would relieve the GOP of a heavy political burden that certain thoughtless members of the Republican’s own party created and the Democrats are too politically savvy to give up such a nice advantage.

    [A comment – earlier]:

    And that leaves only one alternative.

    [grackle – in response] Isn’t this how Timothy McVeigh got started?

    [The commentor again] Does the name Jayna Davis ring a bell? Oh, never mind, she’s already gone down the memory hole. Did you even bother to read my previous paragraph?

    Yes, the name, Jayna Davis, does “ring a bell.” But what’s the commentor’s point?(Note to diary: Why must they always be so vague?)

    Below is the commentor’s “previous paragraph”

    But with billions of taxpayer dollars going to ACORN; the adamant opposition of Democrats to any voter ID requirement; the curious disinterest of the FEC in Obama’s fundraising practices in the 2008 campaign; the Justice Department allowing Black Panther voter intimidation to go unpunished; the takeover of the census by Obama, Emmanuel, and ACORN; the brazen theft of elections by Democrats in recent years in Washington and Minnesota; the clear support by Obama of an attempted coup by a leftist in Honduras; and the total acquiescence and obfuscation by the media in all of this; I no longer have any confidence that future elections in the United States will be free and fair.

    And below is the concluding sentence, which the commentor set off by itself:

    And that leaves only one alternative.

    I now repeat: Isn’t this how Timothy McVeigh got started?

    [grackle – earlier] Demagoging on the immigration issue by certain Republican politicians and conservative pundits is losing the Latino vote for the GOP. Latino voters are the fastest growing voting bloc in America – ask ANY demographic expert.

    Oh, great. Mexicans have done such a wonderful job of governing their own country that they’re fleeing here en masse to inflict their socialist voting predilections on us. And the only way Republicans can win elections in the future is to pander to them. Have I got that right?

    No, the commentor doesn’t have it “right.” Again, the commentor casually equates illegal aliens who come here to work with legitimate American citizens of Latino extraction, an attitude many American Latinos find insulting. Illegal immigrants have no voting rights in the US and therefore cannot inflict “voting predilections” on elections in the USA. The Republicans don’t have to “pander” to illegal aliens; it’s legitimate US citizens who are of Latino extraction and who are as eligible to vote as any other citizen who the Republicans are alienating.

  68. grackle Says:

    The other night I watched Chris Matthews head explode while talking about the “Birther” issue. He was practicaly spitting on the camera.

    It can’t be a bad thing if it throws liberals into such fits of anger. Even if it is stupid, I still love to see them squirm.

    Readers, the MSM and Chris Matthews is not “squirming” about the birthers. Chris Matthews is gleefully and righteously interviewing any Republican who is willing to give credence to the birthers on camera, and who, to use a word used before, “panders” to the birthers.

    What is wrong with insurrection? Isn’t that what is going on in Iran?

    The commentor evidently equates the Iran theocratic dictatorship with the lawfully elected government here in the US. Hyperbole can be a fun thing but it can also be ridiculous.

    Would our military fire on citizens? I wonder.

    If the citizens were shooting at them, yes, I do believe most American soldiers would fire back. In fact, I think it would be the duty of American soldiers to fire back.

    Darrell,

    I don’t think so either. So here is the plan:

    Burn down the capital building and put heads on spikes on the capital mall.

    Seems simple.

    I was being flippant above, but you have to start wondering how much is enough.

    Oh, the commentor was being “flippant.” Well, then, that makes it OK to fantasize about “heads on spikes,” especially if you wonder “how much is enough” later on in the same sentence. What’s next, ‘babies dashed against walls?’ How about ‘beheading’ or ‘eviscerating?’ And don’t forget about “drawing and quartering!’ Seems simple. All in good fun, just flippancy, and therefore to be chuckled at. Good God.

    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance?

    Yeah, sure, but we don’t have any “rulers.” King George died a long time ago and the British Parliament hasn’t imposed their will over here for quite awhile. What we have is a President and a Congress that was duly elected by the voters of America.

    From where I’m sitting, the tree of liberty is getting mighty thirsty.

    Isn’t this how Timothy McVeigh got started?

  69. br549 Says:

    OK, grackle. Where do you think the answer lies? What do you think needs to be done? Your return arguments, as far as I can see, will allow what we are seeing to continue to happen, to continue to gain strength.

    Why are you hung up on McVeigh? He wasn’t wrapped tight. You are vaguely attacking Jefferson now? We do not have a King George, true. But tell me, what do you see forming at this time? Acorn, the census, even ABC have been pulled inside the fence around the White House. What’s up with that, and what is going on in there at this moment. Somebody knows, somebody’s planning, and millions of us won’t like it.
    Some cops answer a break in call from a citizen. The altercation turns into a college professor, a policeman, the Prez and vice Prez having a beer at the White House and it’s made a national and international event by Obama and the media. 50 black youths storm a neighborhood and beat up 4 white folks, putting one in the hospital, and threatening a family as a whole, and the only place to find it (on the national level) is Drudge – for about 12 hours, and then it disappears. Imagine if the races were reversed in this instance. They’d still be putting out fires.

  70. Mrs Whatsit Says:

    I fully agree with Grackle about the birthers. Even if they are right — and I agree that at the very least, the situation casts our President’s claims of “transparency” into severe doubt — that decades-old issue is not a priority when there are so many urgent issues of deception and misdirection going on right now. The birthers absolutely do play into the hands of Democrats. I may not think they are quite as loopy as 9/11 Truthers, but most people do, and if those opposing Obama don’t find ways to make the facts about him credible to those people, they will fail. The average American is never going to buy the birther issue, absent a smoking gun comparable to what Dan Rather thought he’d found on Bush’s military service (and oh please, let’s not go THERE.)

  71. Artfldgr Says:

    I am still amazed at the speed at which he is moving, and the fact it is being accepted as readily as it is.

    i said that would happen…
    i also described how it works…

    but knowing before the masses makes you a crank, and they never remember that you explained this in detail. (they just remember crank till after)

    while many were telling me to shorten and not write. maybe reading what i was writing and following the links. before this election i didnt care nor even say much either way.

    maybe go back and now read those links and especially the link to the book by the german that described what and how it happened from a peoples citizenry perspective might give one some insight as to who and what they are copying (copy success to be successful… so thats why history repeats a lot (besides desires remain))

    if any did, they would have seen more parallels. they would understand what is happening now because rather than have a still photograph concept with all kinds of meaningless frippery that was not important and didnt define the system, and they would have learned the base principals and ideas, goals, and methods.

    right now… its almost too late… that is, everyone LIKE THE GERMAN SAID, could talk themselves to death round round round and never manage to get into a life boat. which is what the intelligent do.

    even now no one is really reading and understanding about the feelings and the position they are in.

    unlike neo, they are not understanding the pickle that is coming up, and yet to realize that their lives are stolen.

    as i said above, and no one got. you fight to believe its not true, so that you can preserve the life, plans and goals you had. you never realized that those were middle class luxuries that come from stablility and conservation of such.

    now you need to decide if your giving up, or if you will act (hide is an act). either one will destroy any semblence of life and goals you had. the one thing you cant do is continue on thinking about life and future as you did before.

    i said that jack boots come later AFTER this all happens and his policies fail. like in the samford experiment. and they start exercising the power they have been not exercising so as to gather more and more of it without revealing how much they actually have.

    no one wanted to have any kind of serious conversation as to what the experience is really like as things change fast, and what kind of changes, what do they mean, etc.

    they like the left thoguht they knew by extrapolating from their internal fantasies, the mental world, to reality. both sides out of touch with the same condition, just different expression of it. you try to convince someone their pain is psychosomatic when they dont look up to you.

    like obama not knowing economics, there was no reason to study a system that was being destroyed and thrown out. anyone want to learn the ins and outs of a commodore 64 now?

    well, no one wanted to know and study how things were and are, and what to expect, etc. They all take the attitude of it isnt coming, it can happen, why bother to learn. easier to knock me for trying.

    and imagine how much potential danger those who know and showed they know could be in depending on outcome

  72. Mrs Whatsit Says:

    Plus, what happens if the birthers are proved right? I don’t believe anyone knows what would happen next, other than utter Constitutional chaos. Would Biden become president? I doubt it — he’d be tainted, too. So, Nancy Pelosi? Now that would be just grand. I beg you, think this through, then use your energies in a constructive rather than destructive direction.

  73. Artfldgr Says:

    MikeLL,
    despite our first amendment, some statements are not legal, even in fun. better learn which ones and towards which entities this applies. that way you dont get others in trouble to.

  74. armchair pessimist Says:

    We sound like the crazies who thought Bush was going to suspend the Constitution. You know that, don’t you?

    That’s the rap we’ll get if we speak too frankly to the others. Yet, I sense mass queasiness around me, still in the unarticulated stage, which needs to be lovingly tended. Wise gardeners don’t overpour.

    Right now what’s called for are very general and simple themes, whose truth or falsity is less important than whether they are portable. That is to say, easy or difficult to state. As a temporary box to put this shapeless discontent in, the birthers are on the right track. But the rest of us should be thinking about other possible boxes. “Do not tread on me” said little and much at the same time.

    For example, I’m going back and forth on a graphic parody of the obama symbol–that blue “O” with the sun inside and the flag underneath. Replace the sun with a sink’s drainhole, distort the flag to make it seem to go down it, amend the line to: “No we won’t”. Is it a good “box”? Maybe, maybe not.

    I never had much sympathy for the Russian revolution–had none in fact–but you have to respect the tireless ground work performed by the nameless bolshevik agitators who never lived to see their revolution accomplished. Just as well for them–Stalin would probably have shot them anyway :-)

  75. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    Mrs. Whatsit—I think the prospect of the massive uncertainty, chaos and potential for violence if Obama were found by, say, the Supreme Court, not to be a “natural born citizen” and, thus, a usurper, is the reason why, so far, all the courts in the land have refused to go any further than the threshold question of “standing” (one lower court judge even ranting on about how the questions raised by a plaintiff were just so absurd as to not deserve any consideration at all), refusing to advance to an actual proceeding in which Obama would be compelled to produce his original long form birth certificate for examination by experts, by citing the incredible argument that none of the U.S. citizens who filed these suits had “standing,” i.e. because they had not demonstrated that any major interests of theirs would be harmed if Obama were not a “natural born citizen.” The entities that some courts have ruled do have standing—the DNC and FEC—are both complicit, have denied that they have any responsibility for determining if Obama is a “natural born citizen,” and have joined with Obama in various suits to fight to prevent Obama from having to produce his original birth certificate.

    The Constitution has not been kind to us in not spelling out in great and exact detail who is to inspect and rule on presidential candidates bona fides, and what to do if a usurper slips through and becomes President. There are only the words of the Founding Fathers, here and there, to give us an idea of their thinking.

    There is no precedent to follow if Obama is a usurper. What happens next? According to the Presidential Succession Act of 1948, Biden is next in line and can appoint a new VP. Is Biden in on it too and tainted? Who has the power and who has the will to decide what happens in this case, the solidly Democratic Congress? If not Biden, then next in line for the Presidency is Speaker of the House Nancy Pilosi, then next President Pro Tem of the Senate Robert Byrd, and after him Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, then Secretary of Defense Gates. If Obama is a usurper, what is the status of all the appointments he has made, the policy and regulatory changes he has authored, the executive orders—classified and non-classified, and the bills he has signed, and can they be negated and/or rolled back? As far as I know, there is no road map, there are no sign posts, contingency plans or rules to deal with this situation which, as just one of its effects, would set a grave precedent of instability, and make it more likely that the legitimacy of future Presidents would be more likely and easily called into question.

    No one wants to step off into this abyss, and those complicit with Obama have, I am sure, encouraged this fear; such fear is the greatest guarantor that this question will never be explored, much less resolved, by our Judicial or our Legislative branches. Those who are in on the usurpation have every reason to see that it continues, those that suspect it has occurred and oppose it have every reason to “let sleeping dogs lie” and just hope that they can ride out, rather than walk into the storm.

  76. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    P.S.–Of course, I have skipped over the most important part. If, indeed, Obama is not a natural born citizen and, thus, a usurper, “who is to bell the cat” and how?

  77. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    If the birthers turn out to be right, nothing changes. Once he was inaugurated, the point became moot. This is part of why I cannot take their arguments seriously – they are like the “you don’t have to pay taxes” folks. No matter what evidence you put up, they are unmoved – not even slowed for a moment to reconsider their position. They believe they are arguing logic, and do not perceive that the way they are arguing – rather like Daily Kos and HuffPo, actually – is a tipoff to their illogic. When you find a birther who is will give even one inch of ground in discussion, we’ll be glad to entertain that conversation.

  78. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    Assistant Village Idiot–I disagree, while practically speaking a usurper Obama may not be able to be removed from office, if Obama turns out not to be a natural born citizen, it makes all of his actions–in citizen’s minds if not in law–illegitimate,null and void, tarnishes whatever legacy he might have, de-legitimizes whatever officials or organizations did not carry out their responsibilities to examine his credentials, and gravely damages the Democratic party and brand.

  79. grackle Says:

    OK, grackle. Where do you think the answer lies? What do you think needs to be done? Your return arguments, as far as I can see, will allow what we are seeing to continue to happen, to continue to gain strength.

    Most of what I think those who oppose Obama could do to stop Obama is to simply quit playing into Obama’s hands.

    In the next election campaign enthusiastically for the Republican ticket instead of whining that the Republic candidate is a RINO. Elections are won with enthusiasm, not reluctantly(if at all) dragging yourself to the voting booth and morosely pulling the lever.

    If ANY of the Republican candidates instead of McCain had won the nomination I would have proudly marched down to the polls, Republican campaign button proudly displayed, and voted with a clear conscience and sense of purpose. I gave money to the McCain campaign – I would have done the same for Romney, Huckleby, etc. if they had ended up with the nomination.

    Try to get the Republican Party to again focus, like it was during the Reagan era, on the Three Golden Principles of Governance: Limited government, Free market economy and Strong national defense. Welcome anyone who is loyal to these principles into the Republican Party. Stop wasting precious time and energy on issues of morality like gay marriage, demanding that candidates have a spotless religious orientation, etc.

    Stop insulting Latino voters by confusing them with illegal aliens. Stop allowing certain Republicans(Senator Cornyn comes to mind) from demagoging on the immigration issue. Latinos see such behavior for what it is and are turning to the Democrats in large numbers because of it. The unfortunate thing in all this is that as a cultural group the Latinos are inherently conservative. For instance, there is no ethnic group in the America that has stronger “family values” than the Latinos. Latinos are made to order for the GOP but after the Reagan era the GOP has enforced its own version of political correctness that is turning them off from what could be their natural political party.

    Stop trying to kick folks out of the GOP who don’t have the exact same morals as determined by the social conservative wing of the GOP. Understand that I am NOT wanting the social conservatives out of the GOP. They are always welcome. Right now the GOP’s attitude should be that anyone who is opposed to Obama is welcome. I just don’t want the social conservatives to be allowed to use the GOP, which is supposed to be a political organization, to enforce their ideas of personal morality. That’s what churches, family life, books, films and philosophical discussion groups are for. Potential GOP voters are being turned off by all this Puritanism that has gained ascendance in the GOP since Reagan.

    The GOP should distance itself from all conspiracy groups. You do not have to believe that Obama is some kind of Manchurian Candidate in order to effectively oppose him. Obama does not have to do anything more than what has already been done in order to prove he is a citizen. Even if his birth certificate is free of any taint, which it probably is, he would be foolish to release it since he is getting so much political traction from the GOP’s association with the birthers in the public’s consciousness by not releasing it. If I were him I would not release the birth certificate either. You don’t kill gooses that lay platinum eggs.

    Why are you hung up on McVeigh? He wasn’t wrapped tight.

    I do not know what the commentor means with vague phrases like “wrapped tight.” McVeigh seemed perfectly in command of his mental faculties to me. But at some point McVeigh decided that he was justified to murder because he believed he had a legitimate beef with his lawfully elected government. Terrorism, whether from McVeigh or from bin Laden, is all the same.

    You are vaguely attacking Jefferson now?

    I am not “attacking” Jefferson. The colonists that revolted against King George and the British Parliament had no voice in their government. The same is simply not true in America today. The British government could have easily avoided the American Revolution simply by granting the colonists the same rights that you and I possess now. We are citizens with full voting rights, a constitution, freedom of speech and a non-violent method of ridding ourselves of any government we don’t like. We can vote Obama out of office in the next election. That is our system of government and it is a good system, the best the world has ever seen.

    We do not have a King George, true. But tell me, what do you see forming at this time? Acorn, the census, even ABC have been pulled inside the fence around the White House. What’s up with that, and what is going on in there at this moment.

    What is going on is a true Progressive has finally won election to the Presidency and we also have a Congress with a strong Progressive influence. This President and the Progressives in Congress are trying for a power grab the likes of which hasn’t been seen since FDR.

    Somebody knows, somebody’s planning, and millions of us won’t like it.

    Then campaign with enthusiasm in the next election instead of grousing about the GOP Presidential candidate.

    Some cops answer a break in call from a citizen. The altercation turns into a college professor, a policeman, the Prez and vice Prez having a beer at the White House and it’s made a national and international event by Obama and the media.

    Yes, that all did happen. And Obama’s poll numbers went down. Obama was forced to walk back from calling the cop stupid. Obama, the POTUS and the most powerful individual in the world, was FORCED to sit down and drink a beer with a lowly policeman in order to quell the public outrage. And why did THAT happen? Maybe it was because the cop and the police organizations that spoke up for him stood strong for some revered principles instead of whining and hinting ominously about “heads on spikes.”

    50 black youths storm a neighborhood and beat up 4 white folks, putting one in the hospital, and threatening a family as a whole, and the only place to find it (on the national level) is Drudge – for about 12 hours, and then it disappears. Imagine if the races were reversed in this instance. They’d still be putting out fires.

    I don’t deny that political correctness dominates the MSM and to a certain extent the public consciousness. But I also believe that the American public shows some promising signs of coming around to a more sane and fair-minded viewpoint. The very fact that this blog exists and we are now debating these issues should tell you something.

    BTW, if any “black youths” try to “storm” my particular neighborhood they are in for a rough surprise. I possess a well-oiled pump 12 gauge and it’s loaded for bear. IMO there is nothing better to discourage the recalcitrant. Blowing away a couple of rioters might do wonders for the attitudes of the rest. I would never use it on an American soldier but rampaging youths of any color are fair game. It’s perfectly legal in most places to arm yourself and that is the best protection for any neighborhood. The cops can’t be everywhere. American neighborhoods need to grow some cojones.

    Plus, what happens if the birthers are proved right? I don’t believe anyone knows what would happen next, other than utter Constitutional chaos. Would Biden become president? I doubt it — he’d be tainted, too. So, Nancy Pelosi? Now that would be just grand. I beg you, think this through, then use your energies in a constructive rather than destructive direction.

    The birthers will never be “proved right.” The whole birth certificate issue is a waste of time and energy.

  80. MikeLL Says:

    Wow. My comments above provoked a firestorm.

    As I said, I was being flippant. No one actually contemplates an armed insurrection. Babies bashed against the wall? Not sure where that imagery came from.

    I live in California. I am already paying over 50% of my income in taxes. I see a federal and state government that are out of control. I see federal deficits that are so large I can’t even comprehend the numbers. I see unfunded liabilities in Medicare, Medicaid and Soc Sec that are several times larger than our annual GDP. I see unfunded public employee pensions that are nearing meltdown.

    I have seen charts that frighten me. I can’t substantiate the numbers, but I have read that the top 1% will pay more than 50% of taxes in the future. Charts that show 40% or more of our GDP going to fund the federal government alone.

    Government produces nothing. All of that has to be siphoned off the productive class. This is a recipe for disaster. I simply want to know, how and when does this all stop?

    Even Reagan couldn’t stop it. He slowed it down for awhile, but after he left office it took off again.

    Our federal register is over 80,000 pages long. You are probably violating some regulation that you don’t even know about every day. We have talked about our legislature passing laws they have not read. Some of them, like Conyers, are even joking about how it is not even possible for them to do so. This is not a joke. This is madness.

  81. MikeLL Says:

    I can think of only a few ways to pay for all of this:

    1. Raise taxes.
    2. Borrow from foreign countries.
    3. Cut funding to other programs.
    4. Cut benefits.

    None of those are politically happy scenarios. No politician wants to advocate any of them. So we just kick the can down the road. In fact, we exacerbate the problems by creating new, huge programs.

    What is the inevitable result?

  82. MikeLL Says:

    Andrew McCarthy on the birth certificate issue.

    “The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.”

    I certainly believe that Obama is a citizen and is our legitimate President. It just seems like there is something else to this story.

  83. Mrs Whatsit Says:

    #

    “Assistant Village Idiot–I disagree, while practically speaking a usurper Obama may not be able to be removed from office, if Obama turns out not to be a natural born citizen, it makes all of his actions–in citizen’s minds if not in law–illegitimate,null and void, tarnishes whatever legacy he might have, de-legitimizes whatever officials or organizations did not carry out their responsibilities to examine his credentials, and gravely damages the Democratic party and brand.”

    Sadly, it would not stop there. It would gravely and permanently damage the Presidency and the country’s confidence in the Constitution and the electoral process. It would be a disaster.

    Harping on it now is a different disaster, because it makes legitimate critics look like crackpots. No matter what the truth may be, the politic thing to do is to walk away from this issue and focus on problems like the ones MikeLL raised — far more substantive, far more pressing, far more important, and credible and understandable as such to the average American voter.

  84. jon baker Says:

    grackle said “Illegal immigrants have no voting rights in the US and therefore cannot inflict “voting predilections” on elections in the USA. ”

    In 2007 in Bexar County Texas, Hundreds of illegal aliens were found to be registered voters.
    The illegals are perfectly willing to steal social security numbers, perfectly willing to march in our streets carrying Mexican flags demanding amnesty and have shown their ability to get themselves registered to vote. But supposedly they respect us so much they are not voting.

    On a side note, I have a buisiness deal we can make some money on. I just need you to send me some money first….

  85. jon baker Says:

    Do you understand Grackle, that on average the last few years, we have been getting 1,000,000 new legal citizens per year? What makes you think they are leaving their old voting patterns behind?

  86. neo-neocon Says:

    MikeLL: The “something else” is how his refusal to release the long form of his birth certificate (if those who say he could obtain it, and that it’s different from the certificate of live birth, are correct) ties into his secrecy about so many other aspects of his life and records, ones we know he could release and does not. I’m referring most particularly to school records. There is a perception that the man is hiding something—we don’t know what or exactly why, and the guesses fill the void. It is very similar to Kerry’s refusal to release his full military records. And in Obama’s case it’s especially hypocritical because of his rhetoric about transparency.

  87. Mrs Whatsit Says:

    Ah, Wolla, sorry, just saw your second comment directed to me on the birther question. I am a lawyer and I actually think the courts that have held that average Americans don’t have standing to question the President on this issue are following well-established, clearly delineated law on this question. In order to hold off deluges of litigation the courts have limited fairly strictly who can bring individual lawsuits on issues that affect large groups of people. Environmental litigation is an area where a lot of this got staked out. I’m not familiar with the federal law that would control access to the courts on this particular issue, but in general, an individual plaintiff must show concrete and particularized injury resulting from the alleged wrong — that is, real harm that is different from and greater than the generaliized harm suffered by everybody else. For instance, if it’s a zoning issue, living three blocks away from a new Wal-Mart probably won’t give you standing to go to court and try to stop it, but if you live next door and the lights from the parking lot are going to shine into your windows all night, you might well get through the courthouse door.

    Standing or no standing, the thing to do is to walk away. Whether it is crazy or not, it sounds crazy, and harping on it gets its adherents exactly nowhere.

  88. Vieux Charles Says:

    Very wise fello, that Wolla Dalbo. Many of us believe the same, but just don’t say it so well.

    The natural rhythm of American politics swings like a pendulum. Now, that rhythm is being manipulated. Imperceptible to the obliviots; an 8.0 earthquake to commenters here.

    As physicsguy said, we’re the “tin-foil hat brigade”. We’re the ones who who saw the correlation between 20 years of Black Liberation Theology and Barack’s “lightning” quick rebuke of the Honduran government.

    Yet, we can’t talk about it openly without the risk of being seen as Glenn Beck in lederhosen.

  89. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    The unprecedented, totally insane spending spree that Obama and the Democrats have embarked on in just these first six months of his administration is justified by all sorts of accounting tricks and rosy assumptions—like predicating future public deficit and debt reductions on a quick and vigorous, high level, long lasting economic recovery, just assuming that hundreds of billions of dollars in savings from “efficiencies” or eliminating the ever useful category of “waste, fraud and abuse” will be found to pay for a portion of Obama’s proposed national health care regime, or that taxing the “wealthy,” (or even confiscating all of the assets of the whole wealthy class, for that matter—investments, bank accounts, houses, land, boats, jewelry, gold, artwork, Mink coats and diamonds) could even begin to pay for even a small fraction of the $11 trillion dollars Obama has put the U.S. in hock for (and that, in the process, no one below $250K in income will see a penny more in taxes being asked of them); and all this new spending on top of the fast approaching bankruptcies of Medicare and Social Security, and the fast approaching bankruptcy of our entire federal government, as automatic increases in numbers of recipients and mandatory payments for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and other existing entitlement programs remorselessly gobble up the money in the constantly shrinking “discretionary” portion of the federal budget that pays for everything else.

    They have used the fact that these unprecedented totals are, literally, unimaginable in size, to make them seem somehow distant and unreal, and something we, therefore, cannot somehow grasp solidly enough to be as extraordinarily alarmed about them as we should be.

    P.S.–From charts I have seen recently, the effect of the Obama’s anticipated tax hikes on the “wealthy,” combined with current and projected state tax burdens, will push total tax burdens on the wealthy in some states to almost 60% of income; a good reason to move to a state where the total tax burden will be less.

  90. Darrell Says:

    MikeLL, you forgot:
    5. Print Money
    I see receipts falling as more people go Galt, moving to other states as referenced above, to me it is the famous yacht tax story, taxation changes behavior. That changed behavior, in addition to the out of control spending increases will accelerate what is coming, I cant see a way out.

  91. grackle Says:

    I can think of only a few ways to pay for all of this:

    Raise taxes.

    Maybe a little bit of this but a lot of tax hikes may not be necessary. I believe the economy will get over this hump if we can get the Democrats out of power. The economy will grow and that growth will produce extra revenue.

    Borrow from foreign countries.

    Why not – if loans can tide us over? Lender nations have a vested interest in the economic well-being of borrower nations.

    Cut funding to other programs.

    Depends on the program. There’s a bunch of funding for unnecessary things – the so-called Stimulus Package is proof of that.

    Cut benefits.

    Depends on the benefit. One thing the Democrats and Obama would love at this point is to have the Republicans start a lot of talk about cutting Social Security. Let’s fight like hell to defeat the nationalized healthcare fiasco. Leave Social Security alone.

    None of those are politically happy scenarios. No politician wants to advocate any of them. So we just kick the can down the road. In fact, we exacerbate the problems by creating new, huge programs.

    What is the inevitable result?

    I don’t think there is any.

    A lot of what the commentor is worried about will disappear or at least be greatly diminished if the Republicans will do what they have to do to win the next election by returning to an emphasis on the tried, true and voter-attractive principles of limited government and a free market economy. The US is not California. The US is more like Texas, which is doing relatively well during this economic turndown.

    I certainly believe that Obama is a citizen and is our legitimate President. It just seems like there is something else to this story.

    It’s difficult to debate vagueness. “Something else” to the story? Elaborate, please, otherwise no one knows what the hell you are talking about.

  92. Darrell Says:

    Grackle, IRT so something else, check out the Andrew McCarthy article linked above, a good read and a very reasoned approach to the whole birther thing, there has to be something there.

  93. Norris Hall Says:

    Economists are starting to say that the economy has “turned the corner”. That the recession is coming to an end. That the worst is over. We are not turning the corner. We are headed in the wrong direction

    This is the worst thing that could happen! If we can’t show that Obama has failed, it means that everything he has done..from massive government spending, to bank bailouts, to “Cash for Clunkers” is working. This will be used against fiscal conservatives for years to come as proof that government intervention CAN sometimes work.
    We cannot allow this to happen.
    It’s important that all who believe in free markets keep up the talk that the “economy is getting worse.”
    Keep praying that the unemployment rate keeps getting worse. Keep hoping that GM falls flat on it’s face and goes completely out of business. Keep your fingers crossed that the stock market starts to head south again,. We must keep focusing on the failures, rather than the successes.
    If people start spending money…that might jumpstart the economy and put America back on the road to recovery.
    We cannot allow that to happen!!!

    We must Keep talking gloom and doom!!
    Our conservative theology demands it

  94. MikeLL Says:

    Have you seen this chart?

    More here.

    It seems my state is in for a wild ride.

  95. MikeLL Says:

    “MikeLL, you forgot:
    5. Print Money”

    Yes. They will do that. In fact, I think they are already doing that. Aren’t they monitizing the debt already in order to keep the spread down?

    But that will simply results in a hidden tax through inflation. So it is the same as #1 on my list. Except that it is totally regressive. The people that get hurt the most are the people who can least afford it: The poor.

  96. MikeLL Says:

    “It’s difficult to debate vagueness. “Something else” to the story? Elaborate, please, otherwise no one knows what the hell you are talking about.”

    Sorry. Didn’t intend to be vague.

    I think Neo nailed it in her response to my comment.

  97. MikeLL Says:

    Norris Hall,

    Not sure if that was a joke or what.

    Also not sure what economists you are referring to. It is true that the media is talking about recovery, but they are not economists. They are trying to bouy the Obama administration that seems to be on the rocks at the moment.

  98. Darrell Says:

    Forgot, other countries are catching on:
    Weak Treasury Auctions Raise Worries About US Debt Burden
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/32201716
    The will have to monetize the debt…

  99. grackle Says:

    As physicsguy said, we’re the “tin-foil hat brigade”. We’re the ones who who saw the correlation between 20 years of Black Liberation Theology and Barack’s “lightning” quick rebuke of the Honduran government.

    Yet, we can’t talk about it openly without the risk of being seen as Glenn Beck in lederhosen.

    I beg to differ. We all saw a nationwide debate about the Rev. Wright and Obama’s exposure to Black Liberation Theology. Obama had to give a special speech about it in response to the uproar. Obama’s Honduran policy has also seen wide debate. Fox News, NRO, the Weekly Standard, Krauthammer and many more have been in on the action. Both issues were openly debated.

    Glenn Beck is not my cup of tea. I don’t usually go for histrionics from my chosen pundits. Krauthammer’s stiletto-like bons mots are more my style. Jim Pinkerton and Bill Kristol are also enjoyed.

    That said, Glenn Beck certainly has a contribution to make. He’s getting the word out. Another pundit I find personally distasteful is Limbaugh but much of what he says is true and I will have to grudgingly admit that he has been valuable to the Republican cause.

    I dislike Ann Coulter intensely for telling people to vote Democratic in the last election but she is sometimes funny as hell and frequently gets to the heart of Progressive hypocrisy.

  100. grackle Says:

    Grackle, IRT so something else, check out the Andrew McCarthy article linked above, a good read and a very reasoned approach to the whole birther thing, there has to be something there.

    I read the Andrew McCarthy from start to finish yesterday and found no “something there” there. You will have to be a bit more detailed than, “ … there has to be something there …” otherwise no one knows what the hell you are talking about.

  101. Darrell Says:

    Ok, possibility of him listed as a Muslim, possibility of him being adopted by a Muslim father etc. It would be so easy to just release it and shut everyone up. But they wont, why?

  102. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Observations:
    Blue-state escapees are reputed to go to red states and, brainlessly, vote for the same things that ruined the states from which they came. I expect the same will be true of immigrants.
    In addition to institutionalized election fraud, there are still enormous numbers of people in this country who think voting themselves other people’s money is dandy and has no downside.

  103. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    To quote Ben Franklin, “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

  104. RickZ Says:

    In order to hold off deluges of litigation the courts have limited fairly strictly who can bring individual lawsuits on issues that affect large groups of people. ~ Mrs Whatsit

    Well, who has standing to raise a constitutional question regarding the eligibility of a president? If not me, or a regular citizen, then who? And remember, these suits have been thrown out by the courts because they claim citizens have no standing to raise the issue at all.

  105. JDM Says:

    I also believe Obama is evil rather than simply misguided. IMHO, the biggest problem with a democracy is that when the people are too stupid and/or too complacent there is really no focal point to attack to disrupt the system. (Aside from the fact that certain actions would be considered treason and not morally defensible. )

    Instead, what is needed is what I would call “hacking the system”. Hacking in this sense refers to a broad range of actions by a coordinated group of people to frustrate attempts by the government to seize more control. Some of these actions may be illegal but most are simply dubious or even totally legal. They might include simple things like not using the IRS provided envelope when paying taxes so it isn’t as efficient to process them and/or “flash mobs” who show up en masse unannounced at certain locations to peacefully protest.

    It would also social/cultural “hacking” by packaging of “the revolution” to encourage followers as well as things like the spray painting of certain logos and other messages on freeway overpasses and other public locations.

    None of this is really new, these are methods mastered by the left long ago.

    We need to wake up and do something besides hoping and praying that our votes will be counted. We need actions that are coordinated and fearless without being scandalous or resorting to violence. There needs to be a way to connect and coordinate these kinds of things over the web in a manner that is decentralized enough to prevent disruption but cohesive enough to be effective.

  106. rickl Says:

    Richard Aubrey Says:
    August 1st, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    Observations:
    Blue-state escapees are reputed to go to red states and, brainlessly, vote for the same things that ruined the states from which they came. I expect the same will be true of immigrants.
    In addition to institutionalized election fraud, there are still enormous numbers of people in this country who think voting themselves other people’s money is dandy and has no downside.

    Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

    That’s exactly what many blue state refugees do when they move to red states. That is one way the leftist infection keeps spreading. I see no reason to expect any different from Third World immigrants.

    A hundred years ago it was different. We did not have a welfare state, and self-reliant immigrants fled oppression to make a new life for themselves in the wide-open capitalist economy of America. That kind of move was not for the faint of heart.

    With our modern welfare state, I think there are many immigrants today who come here in the hope that they can get more free stuff here than they could in the old country.

  107. neo-neocon Says:

    Darrell: That’s my leading theory, that there’s something embarrassing but not illegal on the long form. Something about a parent’s religion or perhaps whether his parents were actually married or not. Something along those lines, anyway.

  108. grackle Says:

    What I would do if I were Obama is to withhold the long form just for the sheer pleasure of watching the birthers foam at the mouth. What great fun it must be to see your opponents wasting all that time and energy.

  109. Maggie's Farm Says:

    A few Sunday links…

    The coming boom in tax shelters
    What is wrong with AARP?
    Southern Baptists take on New England
    Does the O represent a new template? neoneo
    It is intended to be stimulating
    Why no medical tort reform?
    What’s up with all the czars? h/t, Doug…

  110. This Is Disconcerting « The Reluctant Optimist Says:

    [...] Obama and the new template. I have been arguing here that most of us in the U.S. are applying the old, traditional, and fatally wrong template, the calculus of the usual and the expected, of our past history, the calculus that just assumes a President’s good faith, respect for and adherence to Democracy and the Constitution to Obama and his presidency—and, by doing so, can make little sense of his startling and rapid actions–and that to really understand his actions, we need to apply a new template, one that, unfortunately for us, fits much better, the template of Tyranny, of Dictatorship and of Socialism, Fascism or Marxism for, if we do this, Obama’s actions then become all too understandable, and very ominous; a reality calling for a totally different response from us than usual. [...]

  111. br549 Says:

    JDM, a good way to implement what you are suggesting is to head for all book stores with spray paint and a magic marker.

    Go to the Alinsky aisle, spray over ‘radicals” and pencil in “republicans”.

  112. Thalpy Says:

    As has been suggested, this doesn’t make sense unless we see it for what it is. This IS the implementation of all the radical dreams of the 1960s beginning perhaps with the Port Huron Statement. Many of President Obama’s associations have strong connections to that radicalism; some of his associations are the authors of that radicalism. They have had over one generation to further damage our most important institutions and beliefs.

    Wolla Dalbo’s assessment is correct. We are terribly damaged and it’s from within. Obama is simply a charismatic mouthpiece for whoever.

  113. amr Says:

    I too am coming to the conclusion that President Obama is out to destroy the America of 233 years to replace it with something that we would see has more commonality with Chavez’s rule in Venezuela.

    On July 2nd across the country we 912ers and TEA Partiers picketed congressional district offices. There are 661,000 912ers and only 535 members of Congress. CA Senator Boxer has 6 district officers and TX Senator Cornyn has 7 district offices. Representatives have a fewer. So with the high of 7 district offices that comes out to 176 912ers to each office. If a permit to picket will allow 4 people (I was only allowed 1 person in Annapolis, MD) we would only need 24 people for a 6 day picket line.

    We are now also protesting the Obama policies with our Corner Club where we place signs and people on each corner of the busiest intersection in town nearest the politicians office. We do this between 5:30 and 7:30 pm when those who work can participate and there is considerable traffic. Being retired I can picket during the day light hours.

    Our TEA Parties haven’t stop this juggernaut of spending and now taxing with Cap and Trade and ObamaCare. We need to show we mean business. Come on people, if it was good enough for early union organizing and MLK, why isn’t peaceful picketing and protesting good enough for us today!

  114. tehag Says:

    “FDR created the modern US conservative movement… via his pushy policies”

    How many more presidents with pushy policies will be needed before conservatives win? Hasn’t happened yet. It’s 70 years of progressive triumphs (with small set backs like Reagan, who ruined their source of inspiration, but left their control of America intact). At this rate conservatives might be able to undo the damage of FDR, LBJ, and OBH by… 2200.

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About Me

Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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