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	<title>Comments on: Advising Obama: &#8220;if only Stalin knew&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: notherbob2</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-133815</link>
		<dc:creator>notherbob2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-133815</guid>
		<description>Upon reading Neo’s comments in this thread, I am struck by how congruent they are to mine.  Now that wouldn’t be unusual if we were both liberals, or even progressives.  The use of and adherence to narratives in those environs is well documented enabling them to knee-jerk like the Rockettes.  On the other end of the political spectrum and in the middle…not so much.  
As a youth, I was educated to believe that &lt;strong&gt;reasonable people, regardless of their background, would, if they expended the effort to gather the necessary factual information, reach the same logical conclusion on any given point&lt;/strong&gt;.  Take a moment to examine that last sentence.  One would think, if I were going to use that sentence as the foundation for my comment, that I would proceed to discuss the concept of “reasonable people”;  or “logical conclusion”.  Most of the discussion of today’s political issues takes place around those two factors.  Gathering information being taken for granted.
For example (it’s Sunday and I have the time)  I might take off on “reasonable people“.  I am struck by how reasonable it is to lib/progs to question President Bush looking at his watch during a debate and to find great significance therein, while declaiming that President Obama’s inappropriate bows are the equivalent of him clearing his throat or glancing at his nails.  
Or I might do “Logical conclusion“.  When given the choice, seeing the logic of choosing to try Gitmo types in a standard criminal action in New York City instead of a military tribunal in Gitmo.
See what I mean?
However, to me, the most relevant discussion of that sentence lies in examining “gather necessary factual information”.
This is where Neo comes in.  Her background is very different from mine.  I’m Western, she’s Eastern.  She’s Jewish, I’m Protestant, she’s a psychologist (although a law school grad), I’m a law school grad, computer science degreed financial planning type, I’m a pre-Boomer, she’s a Boomer.  Note that in this day and age that I have not mentioned her gender, although that apparently is still appropriately meaningful (at least to one of our Supreme Court Justices).  Well, maybe not so meaningful, I’ve lost track of that narrative.
But, I digress.
So, I am given to believe that the administration is interested in communicating to me (an Independent) in order to gain my support in upcoming elections.  How do they do it?  By giving me &lt;strong&gt;narratives&lt;/strong&gt;.  Wrong!  My decisions will be made on the basis of factual information.
For example:  I know pretty well from the lib/prog narrative what I am supposed to think of Sarah Palin.  When she speaks I am authorized to select from the following:  ignorant, uncouth, ill-educated, rural, untrained, poorly prepared, inarticulate, far right, Pentecostal, well, I could go on.  Anything, but never simply examine what she has said and compare it to my own information and experience along with pointers from pundits.  Well, guess what?  The narrative does not stand up to logical scrutiny very well.  Of course, with lib/progs that is not a problem because they are frightened to death to vary from the given narrative and will cling to it in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  &quot;Facts?  We don&#039;t need no ...!&quot; To do otherwise than rely on the narrative would cut them off from the NYT and leave them out there to think for themselves…horrors!  But, I digress.
For example:  I am not sure what to think of Sarah Palin;  I am undecided.  I need more factual information.  But I have enough factual information for me to eschew the proffered narrative.
Now, any thinking person (getting back to Neo) now knows that the narrative sold to 53% of American voters about President Obama is (to borrow a phrase) bullshit.  What are the  facts?  We are, God help us, still learning.  However, the narrative is still operative for the 49% who still love “the One”.  What will it take for them to wise up?  Unfortunately, nothing will work..they have sold their souls to the narrative and are so frightened of the alternative that they will cling and cling and go down with the NYT.
I have not yet signed on to the theory of the lib/prog “need to believe in goodness”.  I am still stuck in their need to have a pre-digested narrative to tell them what to think and sometimes why (“if we really must learn a “why”, for heavens sake…don’t these people (my chosen lib/prog advisors)  know how busy I am?).  The lazy class is going get us all killed.  But, I digress.
So, even though we are quite different, I seem to agree with where Neo is coming out after processing the facts.  It is, after all, only logical.  And let me take a moment to thank heavens for Faux News, cable (talk radio, not so much, but historically a precursor, so OK). And the Internet.  If not for them we would still be knoding away to Katie Kouric telling us that things are well in hand in the Republic with “The One” in charge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upon reading Neo’s comments in this thread, I am struck by how congruent they are to mine.  Now that wouldn’t be unusual if we were both liberals, or even progressives.  The use of and adherence to narratives in those environs is well documented enabling them to knee-jerk like the Rockettes.  On the other end of the political spectrum and in the middle…not so much.<br />
As a youth, I was educated to believe that <strong>reasonable people, regardless of their background, would, if they expended the effort to gather the necessary factual information, reach the same logical conclusion on any given point</strong>.  Take a moment to examine that last sentence.  One would think, if I were going to use that sentence as the foundation for my comment, that I would proceed to discuss the concept of “reasonable people”;  or “logical conclusion”.  Most of the discussion of today’s political issues takes place around those two factors.  Gathering information being taken for granted.<br />
For example (it’s Sunday and I have the time)  I might take off on “reasonable people“.  I am struck by how reasonable it is to lib/progs to question President Bush looking at his watch during a debate and to find great significance therein, while declaiming that President Obama’s inappropriate bows are the equivalent of him clearing his throat or glancing at his nails.<br />
Or I might do “Logical conclusion“.  When given the choice, seeing the logic of choosing to try Gitmo types in a standard criminal action in New York City instead of a military tribunal in Gitmo.<br />
See what I mean?<br />
However, to me, the most relevant discussion of that sentence lies in examining “gather necessary factual information”.<br />
This is where Neo comes in.  Her background is very different from mine.  I’m Western, she’s Eastern.  She’s Jewish, I’m Protestant, she’s a psychologist (although a law school grad), I’m a law school grad, computer science degreed financial planning type, I’m a pre-Boomer, she’s a Boomer.  Note that in this day and age that I have not mentioned her gender, although that apparently is still appropriately meaningful (at least to one of our Supreme Court Justices).  Well, maybe not so meaningful, I’ve lost track of that narrative.<br />
But, I digress.<br />
So, I am given to believe that the administration is interested in communicating to me (an Independent) in order to gain my support in upcoming elections.  How do they do it?  By giving me <strong>narratives</strong>.  Wrong!  My decisions will be made on the basis of factual information.<br />
For example:  I know pretty well from the lib/prog narrative what I am supposed to think of Sarah Palin.  When she speaks I am authorized to select from the following:  ignorant, uncouth, ill-educated, rural, untrained, poorly prepared, inarticulate, far right, Pentecostal, well, I could go on.  Anything, but never simply examine what she has said and compare it to my own information and experience along with pointers from pundits.  Well, guess what?  The narrative does not stand up to logical scrutiny very well.  Of course, with lib/progs that is not a problem because they are frightened to death to vary from the given narrative and will cling to it in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  &#8220;Facts?  We don&#8217;t need no &#8230;!&#8221; To do otherwise than rely on the narrative would cut them off from the NYT and leave them out there to think for themselves…horrors!  But, I digress.<br />
For example:  I am not sure what to think of Sarah Palin;  I am undecided.  I need more factual information.  But I have enough factual information for me to eschew the proffered narrative.<br />
Now, any thinking person (getting back to Neo) now knows that the narrative sold to 53% of American voters about President Obama is (to borrow a phrase) bullshit.  What are the  facts?  We are, God help us, still learning.  However, the narrative is still operative for the 49% who still love “the One”.  What will it take for them to wise up?  Unfortunately, nothing will work..they have sold their souls to the narrative and are so frightened of the alternative that they will cling and cling and go down with the NYT.<br />
I have not yet signed on to the theory of the lib/prog “need to believe in goodness”.  I am still stuck in their need to have a pre-digested narrative to tell them what to think and sometimes why (“if we really must learn a “why”, for heavens sake…don’t these people (my chosen lib/prog advisors)  know how busy I am?).  The lazy class is going get us all killed.  But, I digress.<br />
So, even though we are quite different, I seem to agree with where Neo is coming out after processing the facts.  It is, after all, only logical.  And let me take a moment to thank heavens for Faux News, cable (talk radio, not so much, but historically a precursor, so OK). And the Internet.  If not for them we would still be knoding away to Katie Kouric telling us that things are well in hand in the Republic with “The One” in charge.</p>
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		<title>By: Wandriaan</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120879</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandriaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120879</guid>
		<description>Grackle: Well, I hope you are right that my warnings are hyperbole. It depents which sources you are willing to trust on the different topics I mentioned. Most of the sources on the right agree that the US is taken in the direction of soft statist tyranny. Non maintains that there is acute danger of a hard tyranny.  The divide is between the assesment of the dangers of the somewhat further future. One part maintains (as you seem to do) that there is no emergency, just focus on the next election, do the right thing etc. The other part maintains that there is an emergency, because the changes might become irreversible and more and more advancing, due to the clever tactics of the Left. All this is of course very foggy and difficult to judge. Is Obama just a somewhat more radical Clinton, or something very different? Ultimately, I admit, I have nothing to rely on but my instincts.
One thing I would say however: I hope you are right about &#039;Americans  are just not as compliant and accepting of authority&#039;. I sure hope that this is still true after the reported decades of leftist brainwashing in education, media etc. But I doubt it.
Is this not the essence of the problem: that the rugged American individualism and nonconformism has severely weakened?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grackle: Well, I hope you are right that my warnings are hyperbole. It depents which sources you are willing to trust on the different topics I mentioned. Most of the sources on the right agree that the US is taken in the direction of soft statist tyranny. Non maintains that there is acute danger of a hard tyranny.  The divide is between the assesment of the dangers of the somewhat further future. One part maintains (as you seem to do) that there is no emergency, just focus on the next election, do the right thing etc. The other part maintains that there is an emergency, because the changes might become irreversible and more and more advancing, due to the clever tactics of the Left. All this is of course very foggy and difficult to judge. Is Obama just a somewhat more radical Clinton, or something very different? Ultimately, I admit, I have nothing to rely on but my instincts.<br />
One thing I would say however: I hope you are right about &#8216;Americans  are just not as compliant and accepting of authority&#8217;. I sure hope that this is still true after the reported decades of leftist brainwashing in education, media etc. But I doubt it.<br />
Is this not the essence of the problem: that the rugged American individualism and nonconformism has severely weakened?</p>
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		<title>By: grackle</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120775</link>
		<dc:creator>grackle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120775</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;To grackle: I deliberately put my statement in graphic terms, because I think only these stark descriptions can make people somewhat aware of what is happening. I cannot of course prove any of these stark predictions, but it is what my gut tells me.
I have studied both the Nazi-tyranny and the Soviet-tyranny for decades and am deeply convinced that it is far easier to go from freedom to tyranny than viceversa. Once you get in tyranny God knows what is going to happen. Especially during the rise of Nazism all warning voices were dismissed with similar arguments as today. We still have elections, the rule of law, the army etc. Almost everyone thought Churchill was a nutjob with his warnings. I hope history will prove me wrong but I prefer to be safe than to be sorry.&lt;/i&gt;

I too, have read some books about the Nazis and the Soviets. And my “gut” tells me America is not yet there – not even close. There is also a story I read called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf.” Warnings need to have a firm grounding in reality or else if the real thing begins to happen valid warnings may be ignored. Early hyperbole only serves to lull the populace. 

Joe Citizen: &lt;i&gt;Oh, it’s only those nut-jobs again. You know, Ethel, the ones who claim President Obama is a foreigner. The “Birthers” I think they call themselves.&lt;/i&gt; 

Ethel Citizen: &lt;i&gt;Oh, so it’s THEM! My God, don’t they EVER stop with the nonsense!&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;The military: Hitler knew he could not relie on the German army, so he created his own private forces: the SA and the SS. These private forces made it possible to eliminate and intimidate in secret and half in secret the vast majority of his political enemies. Once these voices were silenced he could pursue his fanatical agenda without the regular army knowing much more than rumors. When most opposition voices are silenced in the US, this government can get away with much without the regular military even involved. Without this private army this is not possible.&lt;/i&gt;

There’s many significant differences between the Germany of post-WW1 and the US of today. One fundamental difference is that Americans are just not as compliant and accepting of authority as the Germans of that time in history. We never have been - and this characteristic has been remarked upon by outside observers since the beginning of our history. 

The President of the United States, the most powerful man on earth, recently had to sit down and have a beer with an ordinary citizen in order to quiet a furious nationwide reaction to the President’s shoddy treatment of that ordinary citizen.   

&lt;i&gt;Tyranny is first and foremost a matter of lying and getting away with lying. People often don’t realise this: once the Lie becomes in power, everything becomes different. For this reason it particularly worries me the way this government speaks about the voices of opposition, the baffling servility of the greater part of the press and the threats about silencing talkradio and even regulating the internet.&lt;/i&gt;

Measured warnings with a calm tone are fine. But arguments must be based on reality or the argument is perceived as false and weak. The commentor’s next words serve to illustrate my point:

&lt;i&gt;Think about this: once they have silenced the opposition on Fox, talkradio and the internet, we will not be able to know at all what is happening. They can do anything. From organising elections that are completely unfair, to creating a violent incident legitimizing martial law and cancelling elections. And with private thug-armies they can prevent anyone to speak up in a publicly relevant way.&lt;/i&gt;

The commentor, both here and in earlier comment, adopts a tone and a style of rhetoric as if the actions he fears, that I also fear to some extent, are inevitable – as if they are &lt;i&gt;bound&lt;/i&gt; to happen. None of what the commentor fears is fore-ordained; to act as if it is is to cross a line from legitimate, thoughtful warning to ‘the sky is falling’ hyperbole 

&lt;i&gt;Remember the ferocious determination and anger with which Obama spoke about the opposition that should ‘not do a lot of talking’.&lt;/i&gt;

Obama does his cause no good with such arrogant statements, such exhibitions of anger. I wish he would make more of them. It allows America to see him without the public mask.  

&lt;i&gt;Traitor: I use this stark term to simply indicate that this government and the people I mentioned almost always refuse to side with their own people. &lt;/i&gt;

Like it or not, the government we have now in Washington, DC, was duly elected by the people of the United States. To call that government and those voters “traitor” only serves to weaken and sully the image of those who are opposed to Obama. 

We have to convince a certain amount of those voters to switch their votes in the next Presidential election or we will be faced with 4 more years of Obama. To call them traitorous is unlikely to further that aim – in fact it would probably accomplish the opposite.  

&lt;i&gt;And they do. Here in Europe you have not this phenomenon of very privileged people trying to humiliate their own people at every turn and people regarding this as normal behaviour. I find this behaviour disgusting. But in the US this phenomenon is amazingly widespread among the elites, and I think it demoralizes the population and its belief in itself greatly. Which of course facilitates the tendency to surrender to a dictating government.&lt;/i&gt;

I’m not sure of the meaning in the above and so will withhold response. &lt;i&gt;Here in Europe you have not this phenomenon …&lt;/i&gt;??

&lt;i&gt;Guns: when they find a legal way (and as I learned they are thinking of lots of ways) of outlawing (most) private guns, it is almost certain the military will accept this. You will have a number of Waco-incidents, but when they control the press nobody will learn much about it other then in a highly spinned way. The private goons will go after the resistant gunowners with great pleasure, knowing that they have the law behind them. Of course in that case very many US gunowners will fight to the death, but it will be their death.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually the trend in recent years has been “pro-gun.” State after state has enacted concealed carry laws. Progressives would love to reverse this but I see very little danger of this happening at this point in time. Even Washington, DC, has had to back off from some very severe restrictions on gun ownership. 

&lt;i&gt;The US Left: what particularly shocks me is the amount of hatred on the side of the American left against conservatives, who have done nothing wrong, save not sharing their worldview. This hatred is so deep, so shocking, and so irrational, that it reminds me about the prewar hatred against the Jews in Germany. The Nazis hated the Jews in a shockingly intens way, and the hatred I see in the US against conservatives, especially Christian conservatives coming from the Left is very similar. You often feel they literally want to murder them all. I find it scary. I remember the answer a Rabbi gave to the question of why the Holocaust happened :’Endless hatred’. When I look at this far left government I literally feel the hatred of the Leftist block behind it&lt;/i&gt;

Just to be fair the Left is not the only side of the political spectrum that has haters in its ranks. It seems to me that BOTH sides tolerate hate in their midst much too much. My feeling is that it is a bit more prevalent on the Left but not to the high degree that is implied by the commentor. 

The reaction recently from some elements on the Right to the murder of the abortion doctor in his church was disheartening to me. To condone this sort of thing is to damage the cause of the opposition to Obama and the Progressives. The anti-abortion cause was weakened by that murder. Have there been any murders of conservatives by liberals lately?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>To grackle: I deliberately put my statement in graphic terms, because I think only these stark descriptions can make people somewhat aware of what is happening. I cannot of course prove any of these stark predictions, but it is what my gut tells me.<br />
I have studied both the Nazi-tyranny and the Soviet-tyranny for decades and am deeply convinced that it is far easier to go from freedom to tyranny than viceversa. Once you get in tyranny God knows what is going to happen. Especially during the rise of Nazism all warning voices were dismissed with similar arguments as today. We still have elections, the rule of law, the army etc. Almost everyone thought Churchill was a nutjob with his warnings. I hope history will prove me wrong but I prefer to be safe than to be sorry.</i></p>
<p>I too, have read some books about the Nazis and the Soviets. And my “gut” tells me America is not yet there – not even close. There is also a story I read called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf.” Warnings need to have a firm grounding in reality or else if the real thing begins to happen valid warnings may be ignored. Early hyperbole only serves to lull the populace. </p>
<p>Joe Citizen: <i>Oh, it’s only those nut-jobs again. You know, Ethel, the ones who claim President Obama is a foreigner. The “Birthers” I think they call themselves.</i> </p>
<p>Ethel Citizen: <i>Oh, so it’s THEM! My God, don’t they EVER stop with the nonsense!</i></p>
<p><i>The military: Hitler knew he could not relie on the German army, so he created his own private forces: the SA and the SS. These private forces made it possible to eliminate and intimidate in secret and half in secret the vast majority of his political enemies. Once these voices were silenced he could pursue his fanatical agenda without the regular army knowing much more than rumors. When most opposition voices are silenced in the US, this government can get away with much without the regular military even involved. Without this private army this is not possible.</i></p>
<p>There’s many significant differences between the Germany of post-WW1 and the US of today. One fundamental difference is that Americans are just not as compliant and accepting of authority as the Germans of that time in history. We never have been &#8211; and this characteristic has been remarked upon by outside observers since the beginning of our history. </p>
<p>The President of the United States, the most powerful man on earth, recently had to sit down and have a beer with an ordinary citizen in order to quiet a furious nationwide reaction to the President’s shoddy treatment of that ordinary citizen.   </p>
<p><i>Tyranny is first and foremost a matter of lying and getting away with lying. People often don’t realise this: once the Lie becomes in power, everything becomes different. For this reason it particularly worries me the way this government speaks about the voices of opposition, the baffling servility of the greater part of the press and the threats about silencing talkradio and even regulating the internet.</i></p>
<p>Measured warnings with a calm tone are fine. But arguments must be based on reality or the argument is perceived as false and weak. The commentor’s next words serve to illustrate my point:</p>
<p><i>Think about this: once they have silenced the opposition on Fox, talkradio and the internet, we will not be able to know at all what is happening. They can do anything. From organising elections that are completely unfair, to creating a violent incident legitimizing martial law and cancelling elections. And with private thug-armies they can prevent anyone to speak up in a publicly relevant way.</i></p>
<p>The commentor, both here and in earlier comment, adopts a tone and a style of rhetoric as if the actions he fears, that I also fear to some extent, are inevitable – as if they are <i>bound</i> to happen. None of what the commentor fears is fore-ordained; to act as if it is is to cross a line from legitimate, thoughtful warning to ‘the sky is falling’ hyperbole </p>
<p><i>Remember the ferocious determination and anger with which Obama spoke about the opposition that should ‘not do a lot of talking’.</i></p>
<p>Obama does his cause no good with such arrogant statements, such exhibitions of anger. I wish he would make more of them. It allows America to see him without the public mask.  </p>
<p><i>Traitor: I use this stark term to simply indicate that this government and the people I mentioned almost always refuse to side with their own people. </i></p>
<p>Like it or not, the government we have now in Washington, DC, was duly elected by the people of the United States. To call that government and those voters “traitor” only serves to weaken and sully the image of those who are opposed to Obama. </p>
<p>We have to convince a certain amount of those voters to switch their votes in the next Presidential election or we will be faced with 4 more years of Obama. To call them traitorous is unlikely to further that aim – in fact it would probably accomplish the opposite.  </p>
<p><i>And they do. Here in Europe you have not this phenomenon of very privileged people trying to humiliate their own people at every turn and people regarding this as normal behaviour. I find this behaviour disgusting. But in the US this phenomenon is amazingly widespread among the elites, and I think it demoralizes the population and its belief in itself greatly. Which of course facilitates the tendency to surrender to a dictating government.</i></p>
<p>I’m not sure of the meaning in the above and so will withhold response. <i>Here in Europe you have not this phenomenon …</i>??</p>
<p><i>Guns: when they find a legal way (and as I learned they are thinking of lots of ways) of outlawing (most) private guns, it is almost certain the military will accept this. You will have a number of Waco-incidents, but when they control the press nobody will learn much about it other then in a highly spinned way. The private goons will go after the resistant gunowners with great pleasure, knowing that they have the law behind them. Of course in that case very many US gunowners will fight to the death, but it will be their death.</i></p>
<p>Actually the trend in recent years has been “pro-gun.” State after state has enacted concealed carry laws. Progressives would love to reverse this but I see very little danger of this happening at this point in time. Even Washington, DC, has had to back off from some very severe restrictions on gun ownership. </p>
<p><i>The US Left: what particularly shocks me is the amount of hatred on the side of the American left against conservatives, who have done nothing wrong, save not sharing their worldview. This hatred is so deep, so shocking, and so irrational, that it reminds me about the prewar hatred against the Jews in Germany. The Nazis hated the Jews in a shockingly intens way, and the hatred I see in the US against conservatives, especially Christian conservatives coming from the Left is very similar. You often feel they literally want to murder them all. I find it scary. I remember the answer a Rabbi gave to the question of why the Holocaust happened :’Endless hatred’. When I look at this far left government I literally feel the hatred of the Leftist block behind it</i></p>
<p>Just to be fair the Left is not the only side of the political spectrum that has haters in its ranks. It seems to me that BOTH sides tolerate hate in their midst much too much. My feeling is that it is a bit more prevalent on the Left but not to the high degree that is implied by the commentor. </p>
<p>The reaction recently from some elements on the Right to the murder of the abortion doctor in his church was disheartening to me. To condone this sort of thing is to damage the cause of the opposition to Obama and the Progressives. The anti-abortion cause was weakened by that murder. Have there been any murders of conservatives by liberals lately?</p>
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		<title>By: Death of Hope &#124; Autumn People</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120726</link>
		<dc:creator>Death of Hope &#124; Autumn People</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120726</guid>
		<description>[...] the link, read it all and then hit his link to Neo-Neocon who provided some of  the impetus for his great [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the link, read it all and then hit his link to Neo-Neocon who provided some of  the impetus for his great [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120724</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120724</guid>
		<description>Excellent post. I just hope that enough people wake up soon enough to prevent more lasting and permanent damage to our country. But you are right, hope dies hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post. I just hope that enough people wake up soon enough to prevent more lasting and permanent damage to our country. But you are right, hope dies hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Wandriaan</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120723</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandriaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120723</guid>
		<description>To grackle: I deliberately put my statement in graphic terms, because I think only these stark descriptions can make people somewhat aware of what is happening.  I cannot of course prove any of these stark predictions, but it is what my gut tells me. 
I have studied both the Nazi-tyranny and the Soviet-tyranny for decades and am deeply convinced that it is far easier to go from freedom to tyranny than viceversa. Once you get in tyranny God knows what is going to happen. Especially  during the rise of Nazism all warning voices were dismissed with similar arguments as today. We still have elections, the rule of law, the army etc. Almost everyone thought Churchill was a nutjob with his warnings. I hope history will prove me wrong but I prefer to be safe than to be sorry.
The military: Hitler knew he could not relie on the German army, so he created his own private forces: the SA and the SS. These private forces made it possible to eliminate and intimidate in secret and half in secret  the vast majority of his political enemies.  Once these voices were silenced he could pursue his fanatical agenda without the regular army knowing much more than rumors. When most opposition voices are silenced in the US, this government can get away with much without the regular military even involved. Without this private army this is not possible.
 Tyranny is first and foremost a matter of  lying and getting away with lying. People often don&#039;t realise this: once the Lie becomes in power, everything becomes different. For this reason it particularly worries me  the way this government speaks about the voices of opposition, the baffling servility of the greater part of the press and the threats about silencing talkradio and even regulating the internet. 
Think about this: once they have silenced the opposition on Fox, talkradio and the internet, we will not be able to know at all what is happening. They can do anything. From organising elections that are completely unfair, to creating a violent incident legitimizing martial law and cancelling elections. And with private thug-armies they can prevent anyone to speak up in a publicly relevant way. 
Remember the ferocious determination and anger with which Obama spoke about the opposition that  should  &#039;not do a lot of talking&#039;.
Traitor: I use this stark term to simply indicate that this government and the people I mentioned almost always refuse to side with their own people. And they do. Here in Europe you have not this phenomenon of very privileged people trying to humiliate their own people at every turn and people regarding this as normal behaviour. I find this behaviour disgusting. But in the US this phenomenon is amazingly widespread among the elites, and I think it demoralizes the population and its belief in itself greatly. Which of course facilitates the tendency to surrender to a  dictating government.
Guns: when they find a legal way (and as I learned they are thinking of lots of ways) of outlawing (most) private guns, it is almost certain the military will accept this. You will have a number of Waco-incidents, but when they control the press nobody will learn much about it other then in a highly spinned way. The private goons will go after the resistant gunowners with great pleasure, knowing that they have the law behind them. Of course in that case very many US gunowners will fight to the death, but it will be their death.
The US Left: what particularly shocks me is the amount of hatred on the side of the American left against conservatives, who have done nothing wrong, save not sharing their worldview. This hatred is so deep, so shocking, and so irrational, that it reminds me about the prewar hatred against the Jews in Germany. The Nazis hated the Jews in a shockingly intens way, and the hatred I see in the US against conservatives, especially Christian conservatives coming from the Left is very similar. You often feel  they literally want to murder them all. I find it scary. I remember the answer a Rabbi gave to the question of why the Holocaust happened :&#039;Endless hatred&#039;. 
When I look at this far left government I literally feel the hatred of the Leftist block behind it.
.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To grackle: I deliberately put my statement in graphic terms, because I think only these stark descriptions can make people somewhat aware of what is happening.  I cannot of course prove any of these stark predictions, but it is what my gut tells me.<br />
I have studied both the Nazi-tyranny and the Soviet-tyranny for decades and am deeply convinced that it is far easier to go from freedom to tyranny than viceversa. Once you get in tyranny God knows what is going to happen. Especially  during the rise of Nazism all warning voices were dismissed with similar arguments as today. We still have elections, the rule of law, the army etc. Almost everyone thought Churchill was a nutjob with his warnings. I hope history will prove me wrong but I prefer to be safe than to be sorry.<br />
The military: Hitler knew he could not relie on the German army, so he created his own private forces: the SA and the SS. These private forces made it possible to eliminate and intimidate in secret and half in secret  the vast majority of his political enemies.  Once these voices were silenced he could pursue his fanatical agenda without the regular army knowing much more than rumors. When most opposition voices are silenced in the US, this government can get away with much without the regular military even involved. Without this private army this is not possible.<br />
 Tyranny is first and foremost a matter of  lying and getting away with lying. People often don&#8217;t realise this: once the Lie becomes in power, everything becomes different. For this reason it particularly worries me  the way this government speaks about the voices of opposition, the baffling servility of the greater part of the press and the threats about silencing talkradio and even regulating the internet.<br />
Think about this: once they have silenced the opposition on Fox, talkradio and the internet, we will not be able to know at all what is happening. They can do anything. From organising elections that are completely unfair, to creating a violent incident legitimizing martial law and cancelling elections. And with private thug-armies they can prevent anyone to speak up in a publicly relevant way.<br />
Remember the ferocious determination and anger with which Obama spoke about the opposition that  should  &#8216;not do a lot of talking&#8217;.<br />
Traitor: I use this stark term to simply indicate that this government and the people I mentioned almost always refuse to side with their own people. And they do. Here in Europe you have not this phenomenon of very privileged people trying to humiliate their own people at every turn and people regarding this as normal behaviour. I find this behaviour disgusting. But in the US this phenomenon is amazingly widespread among the elites, and I think it demoralizes the population and its belief in itself greatly. Which of course facilitates the tendency to surrender to a  dictating government.<br />
Guns: when they find a legal way (and as I learned they are thinking of lots of ways) of outlawing (most) private guns, it is almost certain the military will accept this. You will have a number of Waco-incidents, but when they control the press nobody will learn much about it other then in a highly spinned way. The private goons will go after the resistant gunowners with great pleasure, knowing that they have the law behind them. Of course in that case very many US gunowners will fight to the death, but it will be their death.<br />
The US Left: what particularly shocks me is the amount of hatred on the side of the American left against conservatives, who have done nothing wrong, save not sharing their worldview. This hatred is so deep, so shocking, and so irrational, that it reminds me about the prewar hatred against the Jews in Germany. The Nazis hated the Jews in a shockingly intens way, and the hatred I see in the US against conservatives, especially Christian conservatives coming from the Left is very similar. You often feel  they literally want to murder them all. I find it scary. I remember the answer a Rabbi gave to the question of why the Holocaust happened :&#8217;Endless hatred&#8217;.<br />
When I look at this far left government I literally feel the hatred of the Leftist block behind it.<br />
.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: I R A Darth Aggie</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120672</link>
		<dc:creator>I R A Darth Aggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120672</guid>
		<description>Most of people like Peggy Noonan will require a &lt;i&gt;Road to Damascus&lt;/i&gt; moment to gain the clarity necessary to see the Real Obama. 

Otherwise, they&#039;ll never own up to having not only made a mistake but in making such a huge mistake with long-term and far-reaching consequences that will come to affect every living person on the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of people like Peggy Noonan will require a <i>Road to Damascus</i> moment to gain the clarity necessary to see the Real Obama. </p>
<p>Otherwise, they&#8217;ll never own up to having not only made a mistake but in making such a huge mistake with long-term and far-reaching consequences that will come to affect every living person on the planet.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Old Texas Turkey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120671</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Texas Turkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120671</guid>
		<description>My bet (long shot) is that The President resigns before the end of his first term.  It would be in keeping with his lack of experience and lack of humility to know his limits.

Just my $0.02</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My bet (long shot) is that The President resigns before the end of his first term.  It would be in keeping with his lack of experience and lack of humility to know his limits.</p>
<p>Just my $0.02</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: grackle</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120648</link>
		<dc:creator>grackle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120648</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;grackle: denial is not even the word.
The US has now a third-world style government. This government has put half of the population on an enemy-list of potential terrorists (official report released by Napolitano), while at the same time denying that there was a threat of Islamic terror.&lt;/i&gt; 

I see it a differently but my viewpoint is also fairly alarming. I see a real bad combination: a Progressive dominated Congress with a Democrat majority coupled with a President who is as openly Progressive as that end of the political spectrum can get and who at the same time seems as devoid of humanity and empathy as a serial killer. There is an emptiness in Obama that is as scary as looking over the edge of a high precipice. I think that is the reason that the joker poster seems so fundamentally apt to us and is so disturbing to those who yearn for him to be their Great Savior.  

&lt;i&gt;This government is clearly at war with (half of) its own people.
I would also say that indeed the war on terror is over: the enemy is now in the Whitehouse. The war is over: the US lost. 

Obama is a Muslim Communist, the US has lost both the cold war and the war on terror. Of course you don’t believe me: wait until the great crackdown on everything American will begin.&lt;/i&gt;

The GOP lost an election. It’s happened before and it will probably happen again. The election was lost partly because of factionalism on the Right which is typified by the RINO nonsense, symbolized by the birthers and is characterized by a fixation on moral issues at the expense of issues of governance, demagoguery on immigration reform and other loser behavior. For me, one lost election doesn’t equate to total disaster. 

There’s a Congressional election coming soon. The GOP has a chance to break the Progressive hold on Congress. If that happens Obama will be somewhat neutralized and it might make it easier to defeat him at the polls in his bid for a second term. My fear is that the GOP will again bite off its nose to spite its face despite the opportunity that the growing alarm over Progressive plans for healthcare affords the Party. 

&lt;i&gt;Christianity: outlawed. Guns: outlawed. Free speech: outlawed. Islam: protected by government force. Communist economy: all major industries. Conservative resistance: dead or in forced labor camps.&lt;/i&gt;

With all due respect I must disagree. Anything can happen in this old world but we still have elections and we still have the right to vote. Get back to me after elections are outlawed. BTW, they are going to have a bit of difficulty relieving me of my weapons. The people my part of the US sends to Congress feel the same way. 

&lt;i&gt;This is the goal of this traitor government, make no mistake. The only thing that can prevent this is the US military. The Obama gangster-government does not know whether it can count on its loyalty. Therefore they are now building up a ‘civilian security force” just as strong as the military. (Words of Obama himself). When that is ready there will nothing to stop them.&lt;/i&gt;

I’m not quite ready to call a government duly elected by the American people a “traitor government.” As for the civilian security force, the Marine Corps alone could kick any civilian security force’s scrawny butt. Add the Army Rangers and the Navy Seals and you have a sure-fire cure for any such group. The Air Force could sit along the sidelines and chuckle while they passed around the popcorn. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. 

&lt;i&gt;His soul-buddy gangster Chavez said a year ago that the US would be finished of soon. Apparently he had already a good talk with buddy-gangster Obama.&lt;/i&gt;

Various idiots around the world have predicted the demise of America since the inception but we are still here and right now we are the strongest power on the globe. 

&lt;i&gt;The vicious troll Bill Maher says that Americans are extremely stupid. They are indeed stupid to put up all these years with traitors as Maher, Moore, Streisand, Fonda, Obama and all the others, and now they will pay a huge price for this negligence.&lt;/i&gt;

Many celebrities are idiots, granted, but I don’t see how the survival of the above(except for Obama) add up to a “huge price” for anyone. I think a case could be made for calling Jane Fonda a traitor. I’ve never forgiven her for her treatment of our POWs in North Vietnam and will not watch a movie with her in it. May she rot in hell. But putting them on a par with Obama trivializes Obama’s malevolent significance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>grackle: denial is not even the word.<br />
The US has now a third-world style government. This government has put half of the population on an enemy-list of potential terrorists (official report released by Napolitano), while at the same time denying that there was a threat of Islamic terror.</i> </p>
<p>I see it a differently but my viewpoint is also fairly alarming. I see a real bad combination: a Progressive dominated Congress with a Democrat majority coupled with a President who is as openly Progressive as that end of the political spectrum can get and who at the same time seems as devoid of humanity and empathy as a serial killer. There is an emptiness in Obama that is as scary as looking over the edge of a high precipice. I think that is the reason that the joker poster seems so fundamentally apt to us and is so disturbing to those who yearn for him to be their Great Savior.  </p>
<p><i>This government is clearly at war with (half of) its own people.<br />
I would also say that indeed the war on terror is over: the enemy is now in the Whitehouse. The war is over: the US lost. </p>
<p>Obama is a Muslim Communist, the US has lost both the cold war and the war on terror. Of course you don’t believe me: wait until the great crackdown on everything American will begin.</i></p>
<p>The GOP lost an election. It’s happened before and it will probably happen again. The election was lost partly because of factionalism on the Right which is typified by the RINO nonsense, symbolized by the birthers and is characterized by a fixation on moral issues at the expense of issues of governance, demagoguery on immigration reform and other loser behavior. For me, one lost election doesn’t equate to total disaster. </p>
<p>There’s a Congressional election coming soon. The GOP has a chance to break the Progressive hold on Congress. If that happens Obama will be somewhat neutralized and it might make it easier to defeat him at the polls in his bid for a second term. My fear is that the GOP will again bite off its nose to spite its face despite the opportunity that the growing alarm over Progressive plans for healthcare affords the Party. </p>
<p><i>Christianity: outlawed. Guns: outlawed. Free speech: outlawed. Islam: protected by government force. Communist economy: all major industries. Conservative resistance: dead or in forced labor camps.</i></p>
<p>With all due respect I must disagree. Anything can happen in this old world but we still have elections and we still have the right to vote. Get back to me after elections are outlawed. BTW, they are going to have a bit of difficulty relieving me of my weapons. The people my part of the US sends to Congress feel the same way. </p>
<p><i>This is the goal of this traitor government, make no mistake. The only thing that can prevent this is the US military. The Obama gangster-government does not know whether it can count on its loyalty. Therefore they are now building up a ‘civilian security force” just as strong as the military. (Words of Obama himself). When that is ready there will nothing to stop them.</i></p>
<p>I’m not quite ready to call a government duly elected by the American people a “traitor government.” As for the civilian security force, the Marine Corps alone could kick any civilian security force’s scrawny butt. Add the Army Rangers and the Navy Seals and you have a sure-fire cure for any such group. The Air Force could sit along the sidelines and chuckle while they passed around the popcorn. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. </p>
<p><i>His soul-buddy gangster Chavez said a year ago that the US would be finished of soon. Apparently he had already a good talk with buddy-gangster Obama.</i></p>
<p>Various idiots around the world have predicted the demise of America since the inception but we are still here and right now we are the strongest power on the globe. </p>
<p><i>The vicious troll Bill Maher says that Americans are extremely stupid. They are indeed stupid to put up all these years with traitors as Maher, Moore, Streisand, Fonda, Obama and all the others, and now they will pay a huge price for this negligence.</i></p>
<p>Many celebrities are idiots, granted, but I don’t see how the survival of the above(except for Obama) add up to a “huge price” for anyone. I think a case could be made for calling Jane Fonda a traitor. I’ve never forgiven her for her treatment of our POWs in North Vietnam and will not watch a movie with her in it. May she rot in hell. But putting them on a par with Obama trivializes Obama’s malevolent significance.</p>
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		<title>By: Wandriaan</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120647</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandriaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/08/08/advising-obama-if-only-stalin-knew/#comment-120647</guid>
		<description>What I said in the former post is all true, but the stupendous thing remains that this is the US, not Venezuela. How in earth is it possible that &#039;Middle America&#039; combined with the solid US institutions does not make this weird kind of thing impossible?
Is this still the bill of the sixties, the luciferic, youthful rebellion against age-old common sense and wisdom?
Has the &#039;great march through the institutions&#039; finally succeeded?
Has it at last produced its Luciferic Napoleon?
As the old saying goes:&#039;Those who the Gods want to destroy they first make blind&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I said in the former post is all true, but the stupendous thing remains that this is the US, not Venezuela. How in earth is it possible that &#8216;Middle America&#8217; combined with the solid US institutions does not make this weird kind of thing impossible?<br />
Is this still the bill of the sixties, the luciferic, youthful rebellion against age-old common sense and wisdom?<br />
Has the &#8216;great march through the institutions&#8217; finally succeeded?<br />
Has it at last produced its Luciferic Napoleon?<br />
As the old saying goes:&#8217;Those who the Gods want to destroy they first make blind&#8217;.</p>
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