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	<title>Comments on: 9/11: eight years after</title>
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		<title>By: Oblio</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-125063</link>
		<dc:creator>Oblio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-125063</guid>
		<description>Richard, I find that being calm and implacable is much more effective on such occasions.  Let them feel fury.  Is anger caused by fear? (I must be reading too much Sun Tzu.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, I find that being calm and implacable is much more effective on such occasions.  Let them feel fury.  Is anger caused by fear? (I must be reading too much Sun Tzu.)</p>
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		<title>By: an unrepentant kulak</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-125039</link>
		<dc:creator>an unrepentant kulak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-125039</guid>
		<description>Thank you kindly, Richard.

Years later, I feel as if I&#039;ve seen and heard it all, experienced the farthest depths of that kind of vitriol and hate, and am (sad to say) no longer surprised by anything I hear from the Left.  I&#039;m also much more inclined to engage when presented with that sort of worldview.  Feel like I have to do something to try to wake us up to the preciousness of what many seem ready and eager to throw away.  Hoping some good will come of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you kindly, Richard.</p>
<p>Years later, I feel as if I&#8217;ve seen and heard it all, experienced the farthest depths of that kind of vitriol and hate, and am (sad to say) no longer surprised by anything I hear from the Left.  I&#8217;m also much more inclined to engage when presented with that sort of worldview.  Feel like I have to do something to try to wake us up to the preciousness of what many seem ready and eager to throw away.  Hoping some good will come of it.</p>
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		<title>By: maureen</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124944</link>
		<dc:creator>maureen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 05:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124944</guid>
		<description>The Gettysburg Address has 10 iterations of &quot;we&quot;, three each if &quot;us&quot; and &quot;they&quot;, and two of &quot;our.&quot;  Not a single use of &quot;I&quot;.

If Lincoln is, indeed, one of his heroes, our President could learn a lot from him.  If.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Gettysburg Address has 10 iterations of &#8220;we&#8221;, three each if &#8220;us&#8221; and &#8220;they&#8221;, and two of &#8220;our.&#8221;  Not a single use of &#8220;I&#8221;.</p>
<p>If Lincoln is, indeed, one of his heroes, our President could learn a lot from him.  If.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124924</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124924</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say I was surprised, Oblio.  Infuriated.
I&#039;m having trouble thinking of a way to attack it.  Since it&#039;s self-referencing and beyond debate, attacking it is sort of like trying to find a corner on a circle.
I have come to the conclusion, late, that about half of the lefties don&#039;t actually believe the crap they&#039;re telling us.  I have some relations who actually think the world is warming.  But they were never reality-based to begin with.
Others think global warming is a crisis which may cause the populace to give the government money and power.  Move the proles into big blocks in the city (see an old essay by Tom Wolfe), get Joe Lunchbucket under control of his betters (to whom he declines to listen).  Get a monopoly on some subsidized scheme (corn ethanol, wind turbines).
So I explain to lefties that the reason I&#039;m telling them how things really work is not to enlighten them. It&#039;s to let them know I know better already.  They may argue, but I make it clear I know they know better.
I think finding out that, not only are they not believed, they are considered deeply dishonest, might take some wind out of their sails.
&quot;I got a B average in high school, got a modest gradepoint in a generic BA from Enormous State University, then I was a grunt and now I peddle insurance.  If I know this stuff, what about all the smart people?  Which is practically everbody.&quot;
Working, for a few years, in a faith-based peace&amp;wonderfulness group, I actually saw this give pause.
&quot;How many people,&quot; I believe they were asking themselves, &quot;know this, too?&quot;
This technique also makes any moral posturing meaningless.  How can you take an air of moral superiority when the other guy has said he thinks you&#039;re lying like a rug?
I do not attempt to convince them of the facts, since they already know the facts.  Waste of time.
What I want to do is convince them they&#039;re wasting their time, both on me and on an unknown number of others who are not in a position to say, &quot;We know better already.&quot;
The Tea Parties and health care reform is not an effort to educate the congresscritters.  We know they know.  It&#039;s an effort to tell them they&#039;ll be punished.  Different emphasis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say I was surprised, Oblio.  Infuriated.<br />
I&#8217;m having trouble thinking of a way to attack it.  Since it&#8217;s self-referencing and beyond debate, attacking it is sort of like trying to find a corner on a circle.<br />
I have come to the conclusion, late, that about half of the lefties don&#8217;t actually believe the crap they&#8217;re telling us.  I have some relations who actually think the world is warming.  But they were never reality-based to begin with.<br />
Others think global warming is a crisis which may cause the populace to give the government money and power.  Move the proles into big blocks in the city (see an old essay by Tom Wolfe), get Joe Lunchbucket under control of his betters (to whom he declines to listen).  Get a monopoly on some subsidized scheme (corn ethanol, wind turbines).<br />
So I explain to lefties that the reason I&#8217;m telling them how things really work is not to enlighten them. It&#8217;s to let them know I know better already.  They may argue, but I make it clear I know they know better.<br />
I think finding out that, not only are they not believed, they are considered deeply dishonest, might take some wind out of their sails.<br />
&#8220;I got a B average in high school, got a modest gradepoint in a generic BA from Enormous State University, then I was a grunt and now I peddle insurance.  If I know this stuff, what about all the smart people?  Which is practically everbody.&#8221;<br />
Working, for a few years, in a faith-based peace&amp;wonderfulness group, I actually saw this give pause.<br />
&#8220;How many people,&#8221; I believe they were asking themselves, &#8220;know this, too?&#8221;<br />
This technique also makes any moral posturing meaningless.  How can you take an air of moral superiority when the other guy has said he thinks you&#8217;re lying like a rug?<br />
I do not attempt to convince them of the facts, since they already know the facts.  Waste of time.<br />
What I want to do is convince them they&#8217;re wasting their time, both on me and on an unknown number of others who are not in a position to say, &#8220;We know better already.&#8221;<br />
The Tea Parties and health care reform is not an effort to educate the congresscritters.  We know they know.  It&#8217;s an effort to tell them they&#8217;ll be punished.  Different emphasis.</p>
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		<title>By: Oblio</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124907</link>
		<dc:creator>Oblio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124907</guid>
		<description>Richard Aubrey, we must not be infuriated by the Left&#039;s moral poses.  We must expect it, so it should never come as a surprise.  Then we should call it out and attack it.  That is their weakness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Aubrey, we must not be infuriated by the Left&#8217;s moral poses.  We must expect it, so it should never come as a surprise.  Then we should call it out and attack it.  That is their weakness.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Aubrey</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124905</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Aubrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124905</guid>
		<description>I like Kulak&#039;s essay.  The cultural malaise he describes certainly exists.
What is particularly infuriating about those he describes is the absolute certainty they have, not merely that they&#039;re right, but that they could not in any sense be wrong, and they are, morally, infinitely superior to those who disagree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Kulak&#8217;s essay.  The cultural malaise he describes certainly exists.<br />
What is particularly infuriating about those he describes is the absolute certainty they have, not merely that they&#8217;re right, but that they could not in any sense be wrong, and they are, morally, infinitely superior to those who disagree.</p>
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		<title>By: grackle</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124893</link>
		<dc:creator>grackle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124893</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;grackle: John Updike’s brave stand on the Vietnam War.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, Neo, I read the post back in January. Updike was certainly courageous and unswayed by conventional wisdom. I think he could not be ignored by the publishers, as other writers have perhaps been ignored(we’ll never know how many), or effectively punished by the literati because he established his reputation early and his novels sold well. 

Norman Mailer tried a little bit of the same thing, being honest, in regards to the more rabid of the gender warriors and was soundly humiliated, having to resort to begging his way back into the good graces of the New York intellectuals. But I never saw Mailer as the towering talent that Updike undeniably was. 

Mailer’s the “Naked and the Dead” is one of the most idiotic novels I’ve ever trudged through but its themes massaged some of the major stupidities of the Left so Mailer hit the jackpot with his first quarter. The novel was praised so highly that they could not ignore him afterwards. I think the best that can be said of Mailer is that he was a mildly interesting essayist, writing essays which tended to be too tortured to firmly establish any salient point but which always featured a needlessly complex, contradiction-filled fawning toward the cherished memes of the Left.  

In the years to come Mailer’s literary highpoint will no doubt be considered “The Executioner’s Song,” a derivative work, the technique and subject of which was copied from the earlier and better Truman Capote book, “In Cold Blood.”  I predict the critics of the future will ignore him except as an oddity. But enough about Mailer. 

In Wiki I find this:     

 &lt;i&gt;The critic John Keenan, who praised the &quot;beautiful and poignant&quot; Endpoint, writes:

&quot;I find it odd that Updike&#039;s reputation as a poet is slight at best.” &lt;/i&gt;

Not so odd: Unlike novels, books of poetry do not bring publishing firms much revenue. So poetry critics could ignore or pan Updike with impunity since such treatment costs their publishers nothing. Although literary criticism in general is certainly subjective I think criticism of poetry can be more subjective than criticism of novels. It’s easier for the reader of novels to detect when criticism is biased or unfounded. Critics of novels have to be more careful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>grackle: John Updike’s brave stand on the Vietnam War.</i></p>
<p>Yes, Neo, I read the post back in January. Updike was certainly courageous and unswayed by conventional wisdom. I think he could not be ignored by the publishers, as other writers have perhaps been ignored(we’ll never know how many), or effectively punished by the literati because he established his reputation early and his novels sold well. </p>
<p>Norman Mailer tried a little bit of the same thing, being honest, in regards to the more rabid of the gender warriors and was soundly humiliated, having to resort to begging his way back into the good graces of the New York intellectuals. But I never saw Mailer as the towering talent that Updike undeniably was. </p>
<p>Mailer’s the “Naked and the Dead” is one of the most idiotic novels I’ve ever trudged through but its themes massaged some of the major stupidities of the Left so Mailer hit the jackpot with his first quarter. The novel was praised so highly that they could not ignore him afterwards. I think the best that can be said of Mailer is that he was a mildly interesting essayist, writing essays which tended to be too tortured to firmly establish any salient point but which always featured a needlessly complex, contradiction-filled fawning toward the cherished memes of the Left.  </p>
<p>In the years to come Mailer’s literary highpoint will no doubt be considered “The Executioner’s Song,” a derivative work, the technique and subject of which was copied from the earlier and better Truman Capote book, “In Cold Blood.”  I predict the critics of the future will ignore him except as an oddity. But enough about Mailer. </p>
<p>In Wiki I find this:     </p>
<p> <i>The critic John Keenan, who praised the &#8220;beautiful and poignant&#8221; Endpoint, writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;I find it odd that Updike&#8217;s reputation as a poet is slight at best.” </i></p>
<p>Not so odd: Unlike novels, books of poetry do not bring publishing firms much revenue. So poetry critics could ignore or pan Updike with impunity since such treatment costs their publishers nothing. Although literary criticism in general is certainly subjective I think criticism of poetry can be more subjective than criticism of novels. It’s easier for the reader of novels to detect when criticism is biased or unfounded. Critics of novels have to be more careful.</p>
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		<title>By: Foxfier</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124891</link>
		<dc:creator>Foxfier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124891</guid>
		<description>MikeLL -
my bunkmate&#039;s dad, a Protestant Chaplain, was in the Army section for some kind of meeting, too.
  All the sort of things you said to try to comfort were told her, too, and each time we&#039;d get more information we&#039;d find out the comforts had been wrong... thank God, he was fine, just twisted his ankle helping one of the office ladies out of the building. (seriously)

There were two family members missing from the girls across the barrack&#039;s hall, and one of the guys in my graduation group from Bootcamp lost his mom&#039;s entire family, save only his mother.  They had a family restaurant in one of the Towers, and she happened to be late that day.
They offered him a free &quot;out&quot; of the military, unlimited time off, a free flight to the funerals-- he refused &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of it to get through boot camp and down to business.  (I think he was an Aviation Ordnance rate, too.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeLL -<br />
my bunkmate&#8217;s dad, a Protestant Chaplain, was in the Army section for some kind of meeting, too.<br />
  All the sort of things you said to try to comfort were told her, too, and each time we&#8217;d get more information we&#8217;d find out the comforts had been wrong&#8230; thank God, he was fine, just twisted his ankle helping one of the office ladies out of the building. (seriously)</p>
<p>There were two family members missing from the girls across the barrack&#8217;s hall, and one of the guys in my graduation group from Bootcamp lost his mom&#8217;s entire family, save only his mother.  They had a family restaurant in one of the Towers, and she happened to be late that day.<br />
They offered him a free &#8220;out&#8221; of the military, unlimited time off, a free flight to the funerals&#8211; he refused <i>all</i> of it to get through boot camp and down to business.  (I think he was an Aviation Ordnance rate, too.)</p>
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		<title>By: Oblio</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124878</link>
		<dc:creator>Oblio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124878</guid>
		<description>I recommend an unrepentant kulak&#039;s essay, which is quite moving.  I wish he had hissed the college president.  Never mind maneuvers, go straight at&#039;em.  These leftists scatter like pigeons.  Courage is a very rare thing among them.  They appease the cruel and torment the kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend an unrepentant kulak&#8217;s essay, which is quite moving.  I wish he had hissed the college president.  Never mind maneuvers, go straight at&#8217;em.  These leftists scatter like pigeons.  Courage is a very rare thing among them.  They appease the cruel and torment the kind.</p>
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		<title>By: neo-neocon</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124875</link>
		<dc:creator>neo-neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/11/911-eight-years-after/#comment-124875</guid>
		<description>grackle: &lt;a href=&quot;http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/30/updike-and-the-literary-lights-on-war-and-peace/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Updike&#039;s brave stand&lt;/a&gt; on the Vietnam War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grackle: <a href="http://neoneocon.com/2009/01/30/updike-and-the-literary-lights-on-war-and-peace/" rel="nofollow">John Updike&#8217;s brave stand</a> on the Vietnam War.</p>
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