Comments on: Updike on war and the intelligentsia http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/ Thu, 24 May 2012 20:05:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: neo-neocon http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-252960 neo-neocon Sun, 26 Jun 2011 20:35:27 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-252960 Gary: this is about Updike's personal essays, not his fiction. I don't like his novels. Gary: this is about Updike’s personal essays, not his fiction. I don’t like his novels.

]]> By: Gray http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-252952 Gray Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:41:12 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-252952 Oh, and regarding "looking at Updike again": if every character in the story is detestable and you want them to die on the next page, there is really no dramatic tension when they merely get screwed, screwed-over, screwed-up, or screwed-around. Oh, and regarding “looking at Updike again”: if every character in the story is detestable and you want them to die on the next page, there is really no dramatic tension when they merely get screwed, screwed-over, screwed-up, or screwed-around.

]]> By: Gray http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-252948 Gray Sun, 26 Jun 2011 18:33:24 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-252948 Hahahaha! I was going to post on this thread. I read the comments and discovered I had already posted was I was going to post! I stand by my previous posts.... Hahahaha! I was going to post on this thread. I read the comments and discovered I had already posted was I was going to post! I stand by my previous posts….

]]> By: ajt http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125596 ajt Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:45:28 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125596 huxley, Start with the early stuff. Try "Pigeon Feathers" (1962: short stories) or "The Centaur" (1963: novel). Updike's short story "The Happiest I've Been" (from the 1959 collection "The Same Door") was one of Nabokov's favorites, which ought to count for something. "Assorted Prose" (1965: essays) is also very good, and contains the classic "Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu", a wonderful tribute to Ted Williams. My rough rule of thumb: anything Updike wrote before "Couples" (1968) is worth reading. I think his work after that is pretty uneven, although I liked "Museums and Women" (1972: short stories again) and some of the later essay collections. The Rabbit novels are considered to be the centerpiece of his achievement, but they never really did it for me. That's a minority opinion, so you probably want to give them a try. Maybe you'll like them better than I did. Anyway, happy reading. huxley,

Start with the early stuff. Try “Pigeon Feathers” (1962: short stories) or “The Centaur” (1963: novel). Updike’s short story “The Happiest I’ve Been” (from the 1959 collection “The Same Door”) was one of Nabokov’s favorites, which ought to count for something. “Assorted Prose” (1965: essays) is also very good, and contains the classic “Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu”, a wonderful tribute to Ted Williams. My rough rule of thumb: anything Updike wrote before “Couples” (1968) is worth reading. I think his work after that is pretty uneven, although I liked “Museums and Women” (1972: short stories again) and some of the later essay collections. The Rabbit novels are considered to be the centerpiece of his achievement, but they never really did it for me. That’s a minority opinion, so you probably want to give them a try. Maybe you’ll like them better than I did. Anyway, happy reading.

]]> By: Tom Grey http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125541 Tom Grey Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:47:22 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125541 <i>“of course, Updike was on the wrong side about the Vietnam War.”</i> Updike was right on Vietnam. The US was fighting communism, the Evil Empire, and was against commie victory, commie re-education camps, commie caused boat people, commie murdering and commie genocide/ Killing Fields. The anti-capitalist anti-war folk won't admit to being in favor of commie victory. They lie to themselves. War? or acceptance of commie victory? That was the US choice. I do wish it was easier to know the dates and the votes in 1973-75, after the Paris Peace Accords, on when the Democrat controlled Congress voted to NOT enforce the Peace, and to reduce funding for our S. Viet allies. So many of whom were then murdered as we allowed commie victory. We hadn't quite learned how to do nation building then; we haven't done a good job of nation building in Iraq (great war against Saddam, lousy post victory) nor in Afghanistan -- because we support too much Central Government Power, not enough enforcement of contracts and protection against local criminals. “of course, Updike was on the wrong side about the Vietnam War.”

Updike was right on Vietnam. The US was fighting communism, the Evil Empire, and was against commie victory, commie re-education camps, commie caused boat people, commie murdering and commie genocide/ Killing Fields.

The anti-capitalist anti-war folk won’t admit to being in favor of commie victory. They lie to themselves.

War? or acceptance of commie victory? That was the US choice.

I do wish it was easier to know the dates and the votes in 1973-75, after the Paris Peace Accords, on when the Democrat controlled Congress voted to NOT enforce the Peace, and to reduce funding for our S. Viet allies. So many of whom were then murdered as we allowed commie victory.

We hadn’t quite learned how to do nation building then; we haven’t done a good job of nation building in Iraq (great war against Saddam, lousy post victory) nor in Afghanistan — because we support too much Central Government Power, not enough enforcement of contracts and protection against local criminals.

]]> By: E http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125333 E Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:16:02 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125333 My favorites are Robertson Davies' Salterton Trilogy: Tempest Tost, Leaven of Malice, and A Mixture of Frailties. Effervescent wit, closely observed characters, and wonderful plot turns throughout. Davies mixes the sublime and the ridiculous better than any other modern author. My favorites are Robertson Davies’ Salterton Trilogy: Tempest Tost, Leaven of Malice, and A Mixture of Frailties. Effervescent wit, closely observed characters, and wonderful plot turns throughout. Davies mixes the sublime and the ridiculous better than any other modern author.

]]> By: Richard Aubrey http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125158 Richard Aubrey Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:05:15 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125158 The Handmaid's Tale was interesting in the sense of how bad can a book actually be? Continuity, timing, supposed history. The interesting thing is that it was written when the real thing was widely available, the treatment of women in Muslim tribal societies. However, as a Brit cartoonist said of his anti-Semitic cartoons, Jews don't issue fatwas. So the author makes up an unbelievable situation to get her anti-fundy creds and leaves the real thing alone. Was she published by Yale University Press? The Handmaid’s Tale was interesting in the sense of how bad can a book actually be? Continuity, timing, supposed history.
The interesting thing is that it was written when the real thing was widely available, the treatment of women in Muslim tribal societies.
However, as a Brit cartoonist said of his anti-Semitic cartoons, Jews don’t issue fatwas.
So the author makes up an unbelievable situation to get her anti-fundy creds and leaves the real thing alone.
Was she published by Yale University Press?

]]> By: Gray http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125114 Gray Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:53:45 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125114 Oblio: <i>If Canadians are allowed, then take a look at Robertson Davies. Fifth Business ends in a striking and memorable closing line </i> <i>Fifth Business</i> is one of my favorite books. It's a real adventure, in a low-key way, with memorable characters and some timeless lessons. I like a book that doesn't beat me over the head with some notion or idea. That rules out a lot of recent "Important" fiction. (It rules out Ayn Rand too: Great ideas, good story, lousy characters and pretty much unreadable....) Oblio: If Canadians are allowed, then take a look at Robertson Davies. Fifth Business ends in a striking and memorable closing line

Fifth Business is one of my favorite books. It’s a real adventure, in a low-key way, with memorable characters and some timeless lessons.

I like a book that doesn’t beat me over the head with some notion or idea. That rules out a lot of recent “Important” fiction. (It rules out Ayn Rand too: Great ideas, good story, lousy characters and pretty much unreadable….)

]]> By: Gray http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125113 Gray Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:44:43 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125113 <i>Gray: have to disagree with you about Updike and Atwood. This post discusses what I like and don’t like in Updike’s work, but I think you’ll see I think a great deal of it has a lot of worth.</i> I'll give it a look again. "The Handmaiden's Tale" was just awful. What a cartoonish polemic. Oddly enough, I've been reading a bunch of Jack London recently "The Road" and such.... The social and economic stew of early 1900's kinda resonates with where we are now. Gray: have to disagree with you about Updike and Atwood. This post discusses what I like and don’t like in Updike’s work, but I think you’ll see I think a great deal of it has a lot of worth.

I’ll give it a look again. “The Handmaiden’s Tale” was just awful. What a cartoonish polemic.

Oddly enough, I’ve been reading a bunch of Jack London recently “The Road” and such…. The social and economic stew of early 1900′s kinda resonates with where we are now.

]]> By: Gray http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125111 Gray Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:41:26 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/12/updike-on-war-and-the-intelligentsia/#comment-125111 Tim P.: <i>However I would recommend Tom Wolfe’s Bonfire of the Vanities or Milan Kundera’s The Unbearable Lightness of Being.</i> Truth be told, I left them off of my diatribe for a reason: they're good. There's some precious metal in the dross.... Tim P.: However I would recommend Tom Wolfe’s Bonfire of the Vanities or Milan Kundera’s The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

Truth be told, I left them off of my diatribe for a reason: they’re good. There’s some precious metal in the dross….

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