Comments on: Obama and Bush: when is a lie not a lie? http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:55:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Assistant Village Idiot http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125696 Assistant Village Idiot Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:22:05 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125696 Ilion, I was going to let it drop and let you bow out gracefully, but your kicking oblio prevents it. As an evangelical dating back to the Jesus Freak 70's, I knew exactly where you were going with "fool," and <i>raca</i> before you mentioned it. No one accused you of making it up - you were accused of taking slender evidence and making pronouncements from it. Your example is actually evidence against your point. "Fool" did not have the "persistent rebel" meaning in the early 17thC, or any other time. The Greek word carries that meaning, but the KJV translators apparently missed it or settled for second best. If you really want to have a go at why some scholars think raca is a transliteration of Hebrew "moreh," the historical meaning of fool in English and Midlle English (none of which include yours) back through 11th C Old French, then Latin, and eventually to the PIE root from which we also get the word "bellows," then I would ordinarily be your guy. I love this stuff. But it has grown tiring already. Ilion, I was going to let it drop and let you bow out gracefully, but your kicking oblio prevents it.

As an evangelical dating back to the Jesus Freak 70′s, I knew exactly where you were going with “fool,” and raca before you mentioned it. No one accused you of making it up – you were accused of taking slender evidence and making pronouncements from it. Your example is actually evidence against your point. “Fool” did not have the “persistent rebel” meaning in the early 17thC, or any other time. The Greek word carries that meaning, but the KJV translators apparently missed it or settled for second best.

If you really want to have a go at why some scholars think raca is a transliteration of Hebrew “moreh,” the historical meaning of fool in English and Midlle English (none of which include yours) back through 11th C Old French, then Latin, and eventually to the PIE root from which we also get the word “bellows,” then I would ordinarily be your guy. I love this stuff. But it has grown tiring already.

]]> By: Oblio http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125675 Oblio Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:12:20 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125675 Ilion, I'm inclined to give you a lot less credit for your linguistic abilities if you can mistranslate me so badly. Let me put it this way: if your goal is to influence the thinking of anyone in this forum, you are doing it wrong. Your last comments to huxley were asinine. Ilion, I’m inclined to give you a lot less credit for your linguistic abilities if you can mistranslate me so badly.

Let me put it this way: if your goal is to influence the thinking of anyone in this forum, you are doing it wrong. Your last comments to huxley were asinine.

]]> By: Ilíon http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125672 Ilíon Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:01:16 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125672 <b>Oblio:</b> "<i>... But this is not a good forum for chopping logic and fine distinctions. The goal here is to make your point as clearly as possible and ...</i>" LOL Translation: <i>I don't want to think, and I resent *your* attempt to think openly and publicly</i>. Oblio: “… But this is not a good forum for chopping logic and fine distinctions. The goal here is to make your point as clearly as possible and …”

LOL

Translation: I don’t want to think, and I resent *your* attempt to think openly and publicly.

]]> By: Oblio http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125587 Oblio Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:05:41 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125587 Give it a rest, Ilion. I respect your efforts as a philologist, and I find them interesting. But this is not a good forum for chopping logic and fine distinctions. The goal here is to make your point as clearly as possible and to make sure that it addresses the central argument. Give it a rest, Ilion. I respect your efforts as a philologist, and I find them interesting. But this is not a good forum for chopping logic and fine distinctions. The goal here is to make your point as clearly as possible and to make sure that it addresses the central argument.

]]> By: Ilíon http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125575 Ilíon Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:01:13 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125575 <b>Huxley:</b> "<i>Nonetheless, we are speaking 21st century English here ...</i>" Well then, why don’t we just use “duh” for every word: duh duh duh duh diuh duh duh! <b>Huxley:</b> "<i>Nonetheless, we are speaking 21st century English here and the Bible is not a dictionary for that language.</i>" Would it be possible for you to behave any more ignorantly? Or are you behaving dishonestly? I didn’t claim that the Bible is a dictionary; I specifically stated that the historical English translations demonstrate that I have not made up this usage and distinction. Huxley: “Nonetheless, we are speaking 21st century English here …”

Well then, why don’t we just use “duh” for every word: duh duh duh duh diuh duh duh!

Huxley: “Nonetheless, we are speaking 21st century English here and the Bible is not a dictionary for that language.”

Would it be possible for you to behave any more ignorantly? Or are you behaving dishonestly? I didn’t claim that the Bible is a dictionary; I specifically stated that the historical English translations demonstrate that I have not made up this usage and distinction.

]]> By: Baklava http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125500 Baklava Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:51:43 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125500 I know my job was saved by Obama right? My 21 year career was going to end until Obama saved my job. I know my job was saved by Obama right?

My 21 year career was going to end until Obama saved my job.

]]> By: SAB http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125496 SAB Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:27:02 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125496 He has created or saved one million jobs, add that to the growing list of lies. He has created or saved one million jobs, add that to the growing list of lies.

]]> By: Baklava http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125491 Baklava Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:01:55 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125491 ∅bama is .... a liar. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/09/024522.php But, I grant that he might just actually believe in the things that are given to him. For this reason, he is also incurious in finding out the truth. ∅bama is …. a liar.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/09/024522.php

But, I grant that he might just actually believe in the things that are given to him.

For this reason, he is also incurious in finding out the truth.

]]> By: huxley http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125485 huxley Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:36:20 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125485 Of course Obama is lying and he knows he is lying and everyone -- everyone -- knows it too. However, we give and politicians certainly take a license for the political equivalent of white lies that are told for form's sake and not to be taken seriously otherwise. More often these political white lies are told during campaigns, but then, Obama has never stopped campaigning. Now his supporters are dealing with the cognitive dissonance of "Hey, a Joint Session Address is not a campaign stump speech where you can whisper sweet-nothing white lies into the nation's ears." Of course Obama is lying and he knows he is lying and everyone — everyone — knows it too.

However, we give and politicians certainly take a license for the political equivalent of white lies that are told for form’s sake and not to be taken seriously otherwise.

More often these political white lies are told during campaigns, but then, Obama has never stopped campaigning.

Now his supporters are dealing with the cognitive dissonance of “Hey, a Joint Session Address is not a campaign stump speech where you can whisper sweet-nothing white lies into the nation’s ears.”

]]> By: huxley http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125482 huxley Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:19:33 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2009/09/14/obama-and-bush-when-is-a-lie-not-a-lie/#comment-125482 Ilion: Yes, come to think of it, I do remember from a Bible studies class that the "fool" in the Gospel stories didn't mean "just a fool" but a "damn fool who is a menace to himself and the community." Nonetheless, we are speaking 21st century English here and the Bible is not a dictionary for that language. Ilion: Yes, come to think of it, I do remember from a Bible studies class that the “fool” in the Gospel stories didn’t mean “just a fool” but a “damn fool who is a menace to himself and the community.”

Nonetheless, we are speaking 21st century English here and the Bible is not a dictionary for that language.

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