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	<title>Comments on: Behind Obama&#8217;s bow: making up to Hirohito for past humiliations</title>
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	<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rhymes With Cars &#38; Girls</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-136299</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhymes With Cars &#38; Girls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-136299</guid>
		<description>[...] neo-neocon has a psychological explanation of Obama&#8217;s instinct to bow before Rulers that is scarily plausible. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] neo-neocon has a psychological explanation of Obama&#8217;s instinct to bow before Rulers that is scarily plausible. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ymarsakar</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134327</link>
		<dc:creator>Ymarsakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134327</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;My dad too, weird.&lt;/b&gt;

NOt weird. Simply the mark of those that truly understand other cultures.

The Left only pretends to understand and care about other cultures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>My dad too, weird.</b></p>
<p>NOt weird. Simply the mark of those that truly understand other cultures.</p>
<p>The Left only pretends to understand and care about other cultures.</p>
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		<title>By: Artfldgr</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134123</link>
		<dc:creator>Artfldgr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134123</guid>
		<description>Beverly, 
 as bad as you think the japanese were, there were worse (in the same war) we dont talk about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beverly,<br />
 as bad as you think the japanese were, there were worse (in the same war) we dont talk about.</p>
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		<title>By: Artfldgr</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134122</link>
		<dc:creator>Artfldgr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134122</guid>
		<description>&quot;they only expect as much as you know&quot;
and do not appreciate showing off and pretending you know more. cargo cult is not appreciated in a society that prides itself on the practice and attempt at attaining a form of literal perfection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;they only expect as much as you know&#8221;<br />
and do not appreciate showing off and pretending you know more. cargo cult is not appreciated in a society that prides itself on the practice and attempt at attaining a form of literal perfection.</p>
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		<title>By: Artfldgr</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134119</link>
		<dc:creator>Artfldgr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134119</guid>
		<description>Vieux Charles 
&lt;i&gt;This is palpable from the rural countryside to the international districts of Tokyo and Osaka. Americans are treated differently from other foreigners and are almost always treated with respect.&lt;/i&gt;

its more than the fact that we won. 
the difference between what they were told and what actually happened when they lost was a HUGE moral testimony to them. 

we did not subjugate them as they were doing to asia. we did not destroy their emperor (we could have). we did not ask for reparations (worked so well with germany, didnt it?). and we helped them rebuild, shared technology, and provided for their protection so that what would normally be for protection would be for economy. oh.. and we left our market open to them at a time when people were still playing more trade games than now. 

while thats a much nicer concentrated paragraph than those years and truth would attest to, they are still true. 

given how the japanese are, our actions in ignorance shamed them horribly. we acted morally in the bigger picture (not perfectly), and our actions fit the behavior of a serious chastisement in their own language... 

they acted like mean distructive teenagers and after they trampled our gardens, our house, broke windows, and tried to cause much misery. we stopped them, sat them down, cleaned them off, helped them, and then let them go (for the most part). 

oh... and we wished them good fortune (for the most part too). 

they must be very upset at america.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vieux Charles<br />
<i>This is palpable from the rural countryside to the international districts of Tokyo and Osaka. Americans are treated differently from other foreigners and are almost always treated with respect.</i></p>
<p>its more than the fact that we won.<br />
the difference between what they were told and what actually happened when they lost was a HUGE moral testimony to them. </p>
<p>we did not subjugate them as they were doing to asia. we did not destroy their emperor (we could have). we did not ask for reparations (worked so well with germany, didnt it?). and we helped them rebuild, shared technology, and provided for their protection so that what would normally be for protection would be for economy. oh.. and we left our market open to them at a time when people were still playing more trade games than now. </p>
<p>while thats a much nicer concentrated paragraph than those years and truth would attest to, they are still true. </p>
<p>given how the japanese are, our actions in ignorance shamed them horribly. we acted morally in the bigger picture (not perfectly), and our actions fit the behavior of a serious chastisement in their own language&#8230; </p>
<p>they acted like mean distructive teenagers and after they trampled our gardens, our house, broke windows, and tried to cause much misery. we stopped them, sat them down, cleaned them off, helped them, and then let them go (for the most part). </p>
<p>oh&#8230; and we wished them good fortune (for the most part too). </p>
<p>they must be very upset at america.</p>
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		<title>By: Artfldgr</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134116</link>
		<dc:creator>Artfldgr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-134116</guid>
		<description>Occam

i would also add to your point as to slavery. do some research into sierra leone...  why did it come about, what it was for... what the arguments were. and then think about the idea of what they tried to do in a form of reparations before.  

&lt;i&gt;In 1787, a plan was implemented to settle some of London&#039;s &quot;Black Poor&quot; in Sierra Leone in what was called the &quot;Province of Freedom&quot;. A number of &quot;Black Poor&quot; arrived off the coast of Sierra Leone on May 15, 1787, accompanied by some English tradesmen. This was organized by the St. George&#039;s Bay Company, composed of British philanthropists who preferred it as a solution to continuing to financially support them in London. Many of the &quot;Black poor&quot; were African Americans, who had been promised their freedom for joining the British Army during the American Revolution, but also included other African and Asian inhabitants of London.

Disease and hostility from the indigenous people nearly eliminated the first group of colonists. Through intervention by Thomas Peters, the Sierra Leone Company was established to relocate another group of formerly enslaved Africans, this time nearly 1,200 Black Nova Scotians, most of whom had escaped enslavement in the United States. Given the most barren land in Nova Scotia, many had died from the harsh winters there. They established a settlement at Freetown in 1792 led by Peters. It was joined by other groups of freed Africans and became the first African-American haven for formerly enslaved Africans.
&lt;/i&gt;

The English abolitionist Granville Sharp originally planned Sierra Leone as a utopian community

the english and america&#039;s tried to return slaves to africa. that didnt work out so well. the utopian idea was kind of like they would try later with the jews and isreal. 



i have no idea... so..

&lt;i&gt;The experiment gets off to a disastrous start. Half the settlers die in the first year. Several of the freed slaves opt for a prosperous new life working for local slave traders. And King Tom&#039;s successor, King Jemmy, attacks and burns the settlement in 1789. 
  







But it is rebuilt on a new site, and is given the name Freetown. A corner is turned with the arrival of 1000 freed slaves from Nova Scotia and other black settlers from Jamaica, and with efficient administration from 1794 by a new governor, Zachary Macaulay. 

The future of the settlement becomes secure when the British government, after abolishing the slave trade in 1807, takes responsibility for Sierra Leone in 1808 as a base in the campaign against slaving ships. It is also used as a refuge for slaves freed by naval action in the Atlantic. Known as &#039;recaptives&#039;, as many as 50,000 are brought in British vessels to Freetown during the next half century.
&lt;/i&gt;

and in the west it was all started with good intentions too. a priest didnt like that the africans, when they fought, would wipe out the other tribe, women and children all. so he thought if we bought them, that was better.  that bit of social engineering didnt work either. 

by the way... back in the day this happened, this is what spurned the idea of the too common american nasty phrase of telling someone to go back home if they dont like it. 

they are still a constitutional republic like the US and other free countries. 

compare and contrast them with south africa now after the natives have hacked their way through a lot of foreigners. 

history... is HUGE...
and surprising...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam</p>
<p>i would also add to your point as to slavery. do some research into sierra leone&#8230;  why did it come about, what it was for&#8230; what the arguments were. and then think about the idea of what they tried to do in a form of reparations before.  </p>
<p><i>In 1787, a plan was implemented to settle some of London&#8217;s &#8220;Black Poor&#8221; in Sierra Leone in what was called the &#8220;Province of Freedom&#8221;. A number of &#8220;Black Poor&#8221; arrived off the coast of Sierra Leone on May 15, 1787, accompanied by some English tradesmen. This was organized by the St. George&#8217;s Bay Company, composed of British philanthropists who preferred it as a solution to continuing to financially support them in London. Many of the &#8220;Black poor&#8221; were African Americans, who had been promised their freedom for joining the British Army during the American Revolution, but also included other African and Asian inhabitants of London.</p>
<p>Disease and hostility from the indigenous people nearly eliminated the first group of colonists. Through intervention by Thomas Peters, the Sierra Leone Company was established to relocate another group of formerly enslaved Africans, this time nearly 1,200 Black Nova Scotians, most of whom had escaped enslavement in the United States. Given the most barren land in Nova Scotia, many had died from the harsh winters there. They established a settlement at Freetown in 1792 led by Peters. It was joined by other groups of freed Africans and became the first African-American haven for formerly enslaved Africans.<br />
</i></p>
<p>The English abolitionist Granville Sharp originally planned Sierra Leone as a utopian community</p>
<p>the english and america&#8217;s tried to return slaves to africa. that didnt work out so well. the utopian idea was kind of like they would try later with the jews and isreal. </p>
<p>i have no idea&#8230; so..</p>
<p><i>The experiment gets off to a disastrous start. Half the settlers die in the first year. Several of the freed slaves opt for a prosperous new life working for local slave traders. And King Tom&#8217;s successor, King Jemmy, attacks and burns the settlement in 1789. </p>
<p>But it is rebuilt on a new site, and is given the name Freetown. A corner is turned with the arrival of 1000 freed slaves from Nova Scotia and other black settlers from Jamaica, and with efficient administration from 1794 by a new governor, Zachary Macaulay. </p>
<p>The future of the settlement becomes secure when the British government, after abolishing the slave trade in 1807, takes responsibility for Sierra Leone in 1808 as a base in the campaign against slaving ships. It is also used as a refuge for slaves freed by naval action in the Atlantic. Known as &#8216;recaptives&#8217;, as many as 50,000 are brought in British vessels to Freetown during the next half century.<br />
</i></p>
<p>and in the west it was all started with good intentions too. a priest didnt like that the africans, when they fought, would wipe out the other tribe, women and children all. so he thought if we bought them, that was better.  that bit of social engineering didnt work either. </p>
<p>by the way&#8230; back in the day this happened, this is what spurned the idea of the too common american nasty phrase of telling someone to go back home if they dont like it. </p>
<p>they are still a constitutional republic like the US and other free countries. </p>
<p>compare and contrast them with south africa now after the natives have hacked their way through a lot of foreigners. </p>
<p>history&#8230; is HUGE&#8230;<br />
and surprising&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Beverly</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133999</link>
		<dc:creator>Beverly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133999</guid>
		<description>This is all we really need to know about the Japanese&#039;s &quot;humiliation.&quot;

Here&#039;s a website detailing just some of their horrific war crimes:

http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/

Check it out. But be warned -- much of the click-through content will give you nightmares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all we really need to know about the Japanese&#8217;s &#8220;humiliation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a website detailing just some of their horrific war crimes:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/" rel="nofollow">http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/</a></p>
<p>Check it out. But be warned &#8212; much of the click-through content will give you nightmares.</p>
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		<title>By: armchair pessimist</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133904</link>
		<dc:creator>armchair pessimist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133904</guid>
		<description>People bound and determined to think no evil of their hero no matter what will applaud  it as a  symbolic repudiation of America&#039;s cowboy foreign policy.   I&#039;d be curious to hear more of the European reaction here, for they might be the intended audience for this disgraceful scene.  

On the other hand, there may be a more practical motive here.  Our friend has gotten a lot of milage out of charming the pants off white people and to ingratiate is instinctive with him. Worked in America, so why not everywhere?  The trouble is that for all his travels when he was young, he is an ignorant rube outside of Harvard Yard and Chicago back rooms.  

I had great hopes that Putin would take one look and send Mr President home in a chum bucket, but why should he clean up our mess?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People bound and determined to think no evil of their hero no matter what will applaud  it as a  symbolic repudiation of America&#8217;s cowboy foreign policy.   I&#8217;d be curious to hear more of the European reaction here, for they might be the intended audience for this disgraceful scene.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, there may be a more practical motive here.  Our friend has gotten a lot of milage out of charming the pants off white people and to ingratiate is instinctive with him. Worked in America, so why not everywhere?  The trouble is that for all his travels when he was young, he is an ignorant rube outside of Harvard Yard and Chicago back rooms.  </p>
<p>I had great hopes that Putin would take one look and send Mr President home in a chum bucket, but why should he clean up our mess?</p>
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		<title>By: strcpy</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133881</link>
		<dc:creator>strcpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133881</guid>
		<description>The video is even worse - the little continued head bobbles as he talks are an extreme sign of deference. Nor are they something that simply occurs as one talks.

I can&#039;t really think that the two put together is anything but that. Further, as someone mentioned, I bet the Emperor was uncomfortable with it (He sure looked it to me). Nor do I think that Japan really wants that weak a US - it must be frightening to see it in action.

Heck, it doesn&#039;t even take a person who watches much Anime to know what those things mean, let alone a entire staff devoted to that.

So, did he ignore the experts and go with his own feeling (again I would say)? Either way he knew Japanese culture well enough to have a public exchange that was fully 100% the actions of a inferior seeking forgiveness and showing they are inferior. 

A slight bow with the proper hand placement followed by a handshake would be OK (if meeting in Japan). That is also the appropriate greeting when dealing with business partners if one is one Japanese and the other is not (and is in a position to know customs to some extent - as said there is a whole language in bows and they only expect as much as you know). I&#039;m not sure the bow is needed for heads of state or not (I probably would do so - it *is* a sign of respect and no reason not to give that IMO), I do not deal with anything at that level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The video is even worse &#8211; the little continued head bobbles as he talks are an extreme sign of deference. Nor are they something that simply occurs as one talks.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t really think that the two put together is anything but that. Further, as someone mentioned, I bet the Emperor was uncomfortable with it (He sure looked it to me). Nor do I think that Japan really wants that weak a US &#8211; it must be frightening to see it in action.</p>
<p>Heck, it doesn&#8217;t even take a person who watches much Anime to know what those things mean, let alone a entire staff devoted to that.</p>
<p>So, did he ignore the experts and go with his own feeling (again I would say)? Either way he knew Japanese culture well enough to have a public exchange that was fully 100% the actions of a inferior seeking forgiveness and showing they are inferior. </p>
<p>A slight bow with the proper hand placement followed by a handshake would be OK (if meeting in Japan). That is also the appropriate greeting when dealing with business partners if one is one Japanese and the other is not (and is in a position to know customs to some extent &#8211; as said there is a whole language in bows and they only expect as much as you know). I&#8217;m not sure the bow is needed for heads of state or not (I probably would do so &#8211; it *is* a sign of respect and no reason not to give that IMO), I do not deal with anything at that level.</p>
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		<title>By: Vieux Charles</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133874</link>
		<dc:creator>Vieux Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2009/11/14/behind-obamas-bow-making-up-to-hirohito-for-past-humiliations/#comment-133874</guid>
		<description>Even today the Japanese have a unique culture where the most subtle gesture is an expression of status. 

The rules are quite strict between Japanese but are tempered when applied to Gaijin.

The Japanese had never lost a war until they challenged the United States. As such they view themselves superior to all people - except Americans. 

This is palpable from the rural countryside to the international districts of Tokyo and Osaka. Americans are treated differently from other foreigners and are almost always treated with respect.

Then comes Obama. His gesture was awkward and tinged with confusing signals. The Japanese public will likely force themselves to appreciate it, but ultimately they&#039;ll think it was weird and uncouth.

The American public will take it for what it is, another attempt by Obama to humble the stature of the United States by offering deference where no deference is needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even today the Japanese have a unique culture where the most subtle gesture is an expression of status. </p>
<p>The rules are quite strict between Japanese but are tempered when applied to Gaijin.</p>
<p>The Japanese had never lost a war until they challenged the United States. As such they view themselves superior to all people &#8211; except Americans. </p>
<p>This is palpable from the rural countryside to the international districts of Tokyo and Osaka. Americans are treated differently from other foreigners and are almost always treated with respect.</p>
<p>Then comes Obama. His gesture was awkward and tinged with confusing signals. The Japanese public will likely force themselves to appreciate it, but ultimately they&#8217;ll think it was weird and uncouth.</p>
<p>The American public will take it for what it is, another attempt by Obama to humble the stature of the United States by offering deference where no deference is needed.</p>
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