Outrage: the KSM decision
The outrages perpetrated by the Obama administration have come so thick and fast that it’s easy to lose track of them. But for me, one of the worst has been the removal of the KSM trial from the military to civilian courts, and from Guantanamo to New York (see this for my previous post on the subject).
The decision is bad in virtually every way, and it’s been difficult even for supporters to come up with a benign but rational interpretation for it. The transparent reason for the removal appears to be the need to slam the previous administration’s treatment of terrorists and allow Obama to claim once again—an assertion he keeps repeating over and over—that he has ended the “torture” allowed by Bush and Cheney.
Andrew McCarthy was the prosecutor of the 1993 WTC bombing trial, and as such he knows the subject of terrorists and the law far more intimately than most—and certainly much better than Attorney General Holder, who disgraced himself during recent Congressional hearings on the subject when he seemed to know virtually nothing of the law and to care little about it as well.
McCarthy’s most recent piece on the KSM decision is an evisceration of the Holder/Obama decision. McCarthy writes that it was a highly irrational choice if you evaluate it in terms of Holder’s stated justifications.
It’s worth reading the whole thing; a short excerpt doesn’t do justice to the scope of McCarthy’s argument. But make sure you take a tranquilizer first, because your sense of outrage might just reach a fever pitch otherwise:
In sum, by moving the case to civilian court this far into the process, the Obama administration sinks down the drain the years of work that went into pretrial litigation in the military court ”” work that cost taxpayers untold millions of dollars. That is, despite that talk about avoiding delay, the administration has gratuitously saddled the public with years of wasted effort, years of extra work, and mountains of extra expense…
KSM & Co. were ready, a year ago, to plead guilty in their military commission and proceed to execution. If the Obama administration had gone forward with the case, it would already be over.
The administration has taken a case that was ripe and ready for a swift, successful conclusion ”” a case in which prosecutors and the public had invested enormous effort and expense ”” and turned it into what will be a years-long struggle. At the end of that struggle, after terrorists have used our courts for three or more years to put our government on trial, the outcome will be less sure. Yes, convictions still will be likely, but capital sentences will be anything but certain. Indeed, civilian juries have already declined to hand down death sentences for Moussaoui and for two of the 1998 embassy bombers.
I happened to watch Sean Hannity’s TV show last night, because he had a special on the KSM trial. It was excellent, and featured McCarthy (among others), as well as an audience of 9/11 families and first-responders. The outrage (there’s that word again) among them all was palpable. Quite a few members of the audience were liberal Democrats who had voted for Obama, and they were shaking their heads in confusion and anger.
My guess is that Obama and Holder are counting on the fact that the public is distracted by so many other crises that it won’t be paying much attention. But that calculation may change once the trial begins—although, at the current rate, that may not be for several years. Let’s hope for everyone’s sake that it occurs before the election of 2012.
Excellent post, Neo-Neocon. I too have been reading Andy’s pieces at NRO and National Review Mag, including his current cover story with some righteous b’yotch slapping of the useless-feckless Holder. I channel surfed on to Hannity early in his broadcast last night and stayed there until the end.
This travesty must be hung around the scrawny neck of Obama. It is entirely his, not his puppet mouthpiece Holder. It has every potential for being a TRAINWRECK. He owns it. Rudy Giuliani has been wonderfully eloquent–unfettered by even faux politeness–on the subject of this trial in NY City. Made me wish all over again that Rudy was our President.
As Brit Hume said recently, “There is not up side.”
This decision shows just how provincial our Pacific President is.
He really believes that by having a relatively open civil trial, the world will be impressed by HIS striving for justice. Problem is that most of the world doesn’t give a s**t about the intracacies of our legal system. Foreign media will cover the soundbites provided by KSM and his defending pundits, and the whole torture issue will be prime time news again. Serious legal opinions might get 10 seconds to explain our whole justice system and precendent cases, and the viewers will head off to the bathroom so they don’t have to miss any of their favorite schlock shows. Heaven only knows how al Manar will cover it, but you can be pretty sure that Andy McCarthey won’t be their go-to man.
The other problem is that it casts any military tribunal trials as second class and secretive, so naturally we have to be hiding something bad or framing the poor defendents. I bet the BEEB will find some diligent reporter to seek out family members of these defendents to attest to their innocense and give the real reason they were caught in A’stan with a Kalishnikov. None of these trials will be regarded as legitimate, and the whole concept of illegal combatant will be seen as phony.
Did Barry really attend law school, or did someone just check present on his attendance sheet?
so what happens when all the evidence gets thrown out because of the way it was gathered? This ought to be interesting.
There must be more to the O-H decision than the ‘need’ to debase the Bush administration. It may make sense to the radical Left, but to trample on the remaining 80%, Why? Perhaps to introduce us to show trials, starting to desensitize us, like an allergist giving us small doses of allergens to boost our tolerance. Why else? Perhaps to monumentalize the gross pathology which drives these ‘so intelligent’ men with their Ivy degrees.
Why else? ‘Evil’, anyone?
McCarthy has more of sending Guntanamo prisoners to Illinois over at The Corner:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDE2MTVjODFiNzJkZDY4MjhkOTE2NjY5NWMxNjJkZGU=
I don’t know whether this link willl work, but he posted at 12:02.
As I have said many times, the only reason to have this trial in the US Federal system is as a surrogate show trial against the Bush Administration. The intent is to show how horrible the Right is and possibly be able to indict Bush, Cheney, et al for real.
This Administration should be careful of the precedents they set.
What hath affirmative action wrought?
It’s a rhetorical question, obviously.
Like nearly everything else the “O” man has tried as President, this too will blow up in his face.
Except of course next year when Obama, his chums, and ACORN launch a successful coup in the US, take over the government, and subvert the 2010 elections.
That will go as smooth as silk. You can just know about these things.
Meanwhile Obama has sunk to a new low of -16 on the Rasmussen Presidential Approval Index.
It’s now history. In his first year Obama has suffered the most rapid descent of a modern president.
It looks like a good bet that ObamaCare is going to die in the Senate before the holiday break, in which case it’s an even better bet that it won’t pass in 2010.
Which leaves Obama’s hard left agenda with a big goose egg and Obama himself close to a lame duck after only one year in office.
I’d say Obama is right on course for being the worst president in American history.
NeoConScum: Giuliani was the Republican candidate I originally supported in 2008. I thought he would have been much tougher on Obama than McCain was (of course, almost anyone would have been). Giuliani’s no fool, and he’s a good debater. He just didn’t seem to want to be president, for which I can hardly blame him.
I subscribe 100% to Huxley’s take.
Great comment, expat!
It appears that Obama and company are not going to listen to the people. I watched Hannity last night and was impressed by the number of Obama voters who are righteously upset over this preposterous idea.
I’m beginning to sense some real angst among independents and moderate dems. Unless Obama can recalibrate, ala Bill Clinton, the 2010 election is going to mete out some real pain to those who want to force this insane agenda down our throats. That said, I’m not going to get apathetic. The phone calls to elected representatives, letters to editors, and e-mails to friends continue. Free speech and our votes are powerful weapons if we just use them.
As the trial is likely to be a three ring circus in the manner of the infamous Chicago Seven/Eight trial decades ago they ought hold it in Madison Square Garden and sell tickets. Throw in concessions, TV rights (by bid), foreign rights (some Saudi/Wahabi syndicate would pay through the nose) and a dent could be made in the deficit. On the other hand the money would probably be distributed to Obama’s minions and racketeers.
-16: Obama has failed politically. This much was foreseeable, and I have counted myself among the politically optimistic.
But I am filled with a strange dread and foreboding. My spider sense tells me that something is very wrong, but I’m not sure where the problem lies. The Left must do something dramatic, and they should choose to do it on grounds where they consider themselves unassailable AND where they believe that they can frame the issue in a way that stifles dissent.
This leads me to suspect that our conflict will be fought through the courts, and the Rule of Law and republican government itself are in danger.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/12/12/2009-12-12_judge_stalls_govt_efforts_to_cut_off_acorns_funds.html
The Left must do something dramatic, and they should choose to do it on grounds where they consider themselves unassailable AND where they believe that they can frame the issue in a way that stifles dissent.
I’ve danced around this point, but it’s time to come out explicitly: the day may be coming, and that right soon, when the Left may consider Obama expendable, and decide to turn a liability into an asset. Have they got the nerve? Let’s hope not.
Please give me some examples how the Left could unassainably turn on Obama.
The “Left” only exists as a handful of true believers. The rest of the burlap boxer/bike to work/birkenstock brigade – the Penns, Sarandons, Sanders, et al… they are merely useful idiots.
The ones that talk social and economic justice, gender studies, global warming. The fools who watch reality TV…
The useful fools will be the first ones swept away by the new era of Peace, Justice, and Reeducation.
They are too stupid to retrain, and too whiny to allow loose. Think of camps full of excess persons, and an ever dwindling population of drones trying not to be sent to the camps. Boot, face, forever.
Orwell was right. In his defence, he lived in a time when being Left actually required some rigor.
They need this trial to further their sowing of chaos and tumult. They fully expect to demoralize all opposition to progressives. I don’t think its working quite the way they planned.
Tom, easy.
Damn touchpad.
No one said anything about turning on him. JFK is now popularly considered to have been a great President. He wasn’t considered as such on November 21. Leftists contra-historically assert that he wouldn’t have gotten us involved in Vietnam, that it would only have rained at night, that dogs and cats would be living together in harmony, if only he’d lived. In fact, JFK was essentially the Irish Catholic answer to Obama.
Now imagine Oswald with some Glenn Beck books in his house and take it from there.
As I said before, I very much hope this doesn’t happen, for any number of reasons, not least being the turmoil it would cause but more importantly it would void the presently ongoing vaccination against leftist ideology. I derive perverse satisfaction from the Dems’ present control of the executive and legislative branches; it removes any cover for their disastrous policies. Let ’em implement their moronic ideas, until even fervent Obamanauts realize that those ideas simply do not work.
Occam’s Beard Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
I agree with you, and I said something similar here a few months ago.
The Left has nearly complete control of the government and mass media. They control the executive and legislative branches, as well as large swaths of the judiciary. The Supreme Court is hanging on by its fingernails. (Someone said on another blog that the only thing keeping the Constitution from being discarded altogether is the continued health of five men over 50.)
Federal agencies and regulatory bodies are swarming with Leftists. They already have dozens of extra-Constitutional czars in place.
What do they really need Obama for, except as a figurehead? He’s not even doing a good job in that role. He’s increasingly becoming an embarrassment to the Left.
As far as I can tell most of the people still supporting this see the “war on terror” as a law enforcement operation and think that blame will be laid upon Bush. I can not see it.
But then most of them assured me that Obama was the mostest brilliant person on the planet and aren’t too happy with him at the moment either (though for reasons similar, yet other than mine).
This is another issue that only “works” if you assume the bear in the corner of the room decides diddle itself instead of eat you. That’s a VERY bad bet – immediate food is almost always better. In this case the bear is the fact that law enforcement could not have done the job and the other plots stopped by the water boarding.
Best case scenario for the dems is that we get no further than Miranda Rights and it is thrown out of court. In any case it will be so and this gives them the least hurt. Enforcement goes back to military and the HUGE hit the dems take is mitigated by the fact that Republicans only suck less.
Next is we get into waterboarding or even worse real torture. If this happens then what we stopped will come out. I suspect at this point some will realize that it was better left “unknown” (at least if you were anti-Bush) and the case will be strongly made to go into real torture. That will be unfortunate and have long term bad consequences.
Worst case is if all the above happens along with a legal battle over military vs law enforcement approaches to the issue. This can only go into the realm of Bush was correct.
Frankly I’m shocked (yes, truly shocked – the level of incompetence here is truly breath taking) that someone that ran as good a campaign as Obama would do this. It is – by far – the single most idiotic thing he has done. Indeed, I can’t think of a single thin in the last – well – forever that was as stupid as this. I can even somewhat understand why the so called “whiz Kids” of the McNamara era though they could micromanage Vietnam compared to this one.
There is no winning scenario. The best they can hope is that a true terrorist – one of the very very very few that no doubt can be thrown upon them – is let go at their decision. The worst is that every decision that they depend on having us in the dark about becomes shone upon by the light and their whole world structure is let down.
They have nothing except to lose here. Loose big or loose *really* big.
Suppose the terrs–organized or as a matter of a couple of guys getting a case of Sudden Jihadi Syndrome–decide to make a bloody statement.
They could, if the thing were in Gitmo, make their statement in a mall in Poughkeepsie. But it would be more dramatic if the trial were just downriver, and more likely to suggest itself.
We got the Ft. Dix Six, and the Goose Creek Two, by luck, and a determined truck bomber by infiltration in Houston, I think it was. The FBI provided him with bogus explosives. I feel like laughing. No, I don’t.
The amount of effort the terrs are expending is eventually going to exceed our luck.
Put that together with the trial in NYC and we have a hell’s brew.
Some folks are concerned both theoretically and with what they consider reasonable intel about half a dozen Beslans simultaneously.
The trial would be a good cause, and it’s far enough off to organize the thing.
Moving the trial to NYC is a political blunder of the first order. It will fester and fester and will resonate only with the extreme left wing of his party. Every day is another opportunity for a bombshell to drop, not on Bush as intended, but on the stupidity of the Blame Duck for having this civilian trial in the first place. Even the MSM is not on board with this decision.
Moving the terrorists from Guantanamo to a prison in Illinois is another political blunder of the first order. God forbid they are ever released, they will become residents of Illinois with free run of the country. This is the main reason why they were housed at Guantanamo.
The Blame Duck’s poll numbers are dropping very, very quickly. As of this morning, -19 and in free fall at Rasmussen. The RCP average is made up of polls about a week old and will most likely drop when these polls are updated.
The Blame Duck’s internal polls must be showing this trend and this is why, I think, he has started to make more conservative noises (with regard to sending troops to Afghanistan and in his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech). Any support he can garner from conservatives will stabilize his poll numbers (he hopes). The problem is that he no longer has any credibility with the right, the center or the left.
He still retains the power to astound. Are there no adults in residence in this White House? Will Greg Craig spill the beans?
Vladimir Jocić:
Dude, Belmont Club is that way. –>
Not entirely OT.
The Russkis tried a new sub-launched nuke-capable ballistic missile on the SAME DAY zero received the Nobel Peace Prize (cough).
Putin’s saying, ” I gotcher peace prize right here.”
I don’t think any terrs or supporters are any more afraid of zero.
Jeez, what a mess.
I will take jon baker’s point one step further and propose that the real objective is to let KSM go as the ultimate slap against the U.S and Bush Administration that apprehended him. Why do I believe this? The KSM trial has already been prejudiced by comments made by Holder and Obama.
Also, why focus so much on Obama? Obama is not the real problem here…the real problem is the people behind him. Get Obama out of the picture, they will simply replace him with another puppet mouthpiece.
It makes you wonder what exactly Obama hoped to accomplish by holding the trial in NYC. I mean, what was the best case scenario?
Let’s look at the decision tree:
1. KSM is acquitted.
a. Full trial, with all the evidence left in, yet still acquitted.
b. Critical evidence thrown out on Constitutional grounds, not enough left to convict.
2. KSM is convicted.
a. Full trial, with all the evidence, and convicted.
b. Critical evidence thrown out on Constitutional grounds, but enough left to convict.
c. He confesses in open court.
3. Hung jury/mistrial
Of these, only 2b works for Obama. It’s still a PR disaster overseas, because foreigners will uniformly assume that the fix was in and KSM was a lock for conviction regardless. That’s certainly true throughout the Third World, and even people in developed countries will wonder if it’s true — especially after the Nubian Nitwit already essentially said a conviction is in the bag. The only upside is that Obama gets to dump on Bush a bit, and cut Bush’s chances of defeating him in 2012.
Scenario 2a works for Obama to some extent, but ACLU-type Reds will throw a conniption fit about violation of civil rights, and actually for once would have a point. Scenario 2c is possible, but unlikely, because KSM won’t then have a soapbox. In any case, it’s still a PR disaster overseas, because foreigners will assume he was brainwashed/broken in captivity to say whatever he was told.
Scenario 1a is difficult to imagine taking place, but if it does, Obama faces the problem of what to do with KSM. Turn him loose in the US? Bye-bye second term. Send him to a foreign country? You mean, the same foreign countries that are queueing up to take Gitmo detainees? Throw him back into the slam? On what grounds? He’ll have been tried and acquitted. Never mind the second term; at that point, Obama will be lucky to finish his first term.
Scenario 3 means the whole mess hangs over Obama indefinitely, continually eroding his popularity while the whole thing hangs fire. He can hardly decline to re-try KSM, so the entire circus continues until resolved through one of the other scenarios. Meanwhile, NYC continues to live with the disruption, and with having a bullseye on its collective back.
Not included above is the possibility of kicking the whole festering mess back to a military tribunal, which of course raises the question of why take it out of that venue in the first place?
So what idiot came up with this idea? Is there no one in the Administration who could lay out the scenarios in the above fashion, and realize the problems?
Neo-Neocon: Yep, I’m the same on Rudy. Very, very tough Guy. Smart, seasoned, experienced. Some possible ‘temperament’ problems, but certainly no more than McCain.
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KSM will win in a regular court, as when he was arrested the rules of such arrest were not aligned with civilian courts. he had not been read his rights, and as such, any evidence that they would use does not exist as far as the court is concerned.
however, given that the democrats are sinking faster than than a led balloon near a singularity, they would want some kind of crisis to get carte blanche from us. that is a crisis would renew their mandate, and by facilitating a civilian trial in ny, they facilitate a HUGE easy unpreventable situation.
here is how bad it is..
1. the mosque some AQ people were caught at in queens is still operating.
2. there are a lot of other mosques and fringe groups with no mosque embedded in our society
3. there are people raised with the liberal nihilist no culture message, and so are now receptive to the message of another side, rather from the intended.
4. many states which could operate and not be blamed for any action as no one would allow the facts to stray far from the message so as not to complicate reality for those they are gaming
5. crackpot opportunists
ALL 5 of those are going to be in play to some degree.
what we can be thankful about is that most of them are ignorant and not well trained, even if they are well trained – ie they may know how to do something they are told specifically, but they have almost zero ability to operate on their own, construct things out of nothing and sow a large long campaign…
any action would not really work to their advantage as it would sow the seeds of an older america, rather than the new one they are pushing, but they have to continue to restructure so that the greedy and incapable over these 3 years figure out how well they can do if they play ball. this is why it takes 2-3 years to set this stuff up minimally once your in a position to disburse with no restrictions (till its too late).
ultimately they want something to happen. but will work it if nothig does. actually if nothing does the whole door will be open to merging military and civilian systems. – like soviets and chinese have.
that is, the bigger picture may be the merger of the two…
.
so what happens when all the evidence gets thrown out because of the way it was gathered? This ought to be interesting.
Oh, wait till KSM subpoenas BO, GWB, Cheney, Rumsfeldt, et al. as having knowledge about his torture and/or other elements of his case. Show trial, indeed!
I’ll suspect he’ll walk for lack of untainted evidence. If he’s dumb, he’ll submit a request for a writ of habeous corpus, and walk out the front door. I suspect at that point, he’ll be seized by an angry mob, and taken to the Chrysler Building, where he’ll get a taste of his own medicine when the mob flings him off the building.
Yippe-ki-ay…
He won’t walk. Obama and Holder have said he’s going to be convicted and he’s not going anyplace if he isn’t convicted.
So we already know–which is to say the unpersuaded masses overseas who are supposed to be impressed by our justice system–that the fix is in.
Until he walks.
Is it not good to use the term “Chinese fire drill”?
This is a real mess, and it’s only going to get worse.
Frankly, the best end to this that I can see for the Obama Administration — which, coincidentally, would also serve the interests of the United States — would be for KSM to have a little accident in prison before he goes to trial. (In his civilian holding cell in NYC, I mean… I don’t mean to imply that Guantanamo troops would have anything to do with this.)
We’re playing by Chicago rules here, aren’t we?
respectfully,
Daniel in Brookline
Daniel, that wouldn’t help Obama. Every leftist from Berkeley to Moscow would be howling that he was murdered by the government, whether he was or not.
you guys missed the biggest point.
that this combines the military and police… like in those nasty countries that i keep refering to. the military IS the police, and the police are a brance of the military
if you were to merge the two, you wuold miltiarize the police force, while transfering jurisprudence from the military.
it has nothing to do with any other things than making a military state out of the US. which is what they have been doing since i was a kid… or havent you noticed?
10+months into The Bamma Debacle, I’ve come to detest them to a level where I’m now anxious for the KSM Circus to begin. It ought to dominate 2010 and–JEEPERS–it’s a hugely important election year.
The Plan, of course, is to put the Evil Boooosh Administration on trial. “We plan; God laughs.” Mr Bamster and his thuggish crew will end up–I’m thinking–being the Fools of the piece. Their craven, malignant motives exposed for our country to see day after loathsome day. Bring it on Barack Hussein Obammy!
I’m dismayed to see that today’s front page announce that the Federal Government will be housing the detainees in Illinois. This seems to dovetail with the KSM saga, rather nicely.
When I first heard comments that Obama was more aligned with the terrorists than the American people, I snickered. However, more and more, I see decisions being made that continue to imperil the United States and send the wrong message to those who want chaos.
Anyone with a lick of sense is well aware of what purpose our local, state and federal prisons serve in modern society, and the results that can be seen in daily life nearly everywhere.
The prison system is already chock full of homegrown Jamals, Maliks and Muhammeds that have been “persecuted” for their chosen lifestyles and have an inter-generational hatred for the country in which they were born.
So now, the President of The United States decides that the best option for these maniacs is to bring them to an American State that already has a long tradition of harboring Nation Of Islam, Black Panthers and numerous other sympathetic groups.
Place them in an enviornment and setting in which admirers, recruits and other synchophants can blend in and feel comfortable and not be harassed by “racist” authorities.
I’m beyond disgusted by this administration.