January 29th, 2010

It’s NIMBY time for Manhattan and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

The Obama administration is looking to try KSM elsewhere than New York City.

Apparently the movers and shakers in New York realized Obama had hung a huge millstone around their necks, and demanded he remove it. And although the tip of another island known as Cuba—Guantanamo, that is—would IMHO be a fine place to have the trial, Obama and Eric Holder (who are looking more and more like the Two Stooges of terror trials, except that there’s nothing even remotely funny about them) won’t allow it.

Moving the trial out of NYC is enough of an embarrassing concession to reality and common sense for them to handle at the moment. Taking the trial out of the civilian justice system entirely and putting it in the military courts would be too great an admission of error.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Will the next venue chosen also say “NIMBY (not in my backyard)?” And if it does, will it exhibit enough clout to prevail on Obama and Holder to change the location once again? And will Obama and Holder end up running out of civilian venues?

33 Responses to “It’s NIMBY time for Manhattan and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed”

  1. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Wherever this trial is held, there will be a perimeter around the area. The perimeter at Gitmo would look different from the one at the air base in northern New York, which would look different from the one used in New York City.
    In the latter case, whether it was one block or ten blocks from the courthouse, it would consist of lines not to be crossed–probably formidable barriers–and check-in points where those with court business would be checked, along with those with non-court business within the perimeter. Added to that number would be people passing nearby on their various routes to their affairs, along with those detouring around the perimeter which used to contain a more direct route.
    It would be a fat target for a truck bomb, and its location on the perimeter would make the terrorism point.
    It took Tim McVeigh and others unknown not much effort to blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City. IIRC, that was 158 dead and many more seriously injured, some crippled or otherwise permanently damaged.
    And McVeigh didn’t include half a ton of scrap iron or, as with the 1993 WTC bombing, cyanide.
    It only took half a dozen guys to put the 1993 bombing together.
    We don’t need to posit an ocean-spanning al Q op. Only a half dozen home-grown nutcases.
    Hell, Maj. Hasan got his long march through the institution all by himself with help from PC. Killed fourteen people.
    Things were different before the invention of gunpowder and all kinds of ways of storing energy and releasing it as desired.
    Now all it takes is a couple of dimbulbs and a recipe from the internet.
    Ought to have the trial where control is easier.

  2. csimon Says:

    “…an embarrassing concession to reality and common sense…”

    The fact is that this administration is driven by pure political ideological zeal which leaves common sense in the dust. Their desire to show the world we protect even terrorist thugs and pay for their lawyers because we are so great (ironic, no? that in their own misguided way they are attempting to display American Exceptionalism!) completely abandons their sworn duty to protect the American people! And they don’t get this. Their decision to move KLM’s trial to the criminal court system, let alone their failure to acknowledge the impending threat of terrorism – at least until the day after Christmas (correction — it took about 4 days to acknowledge that he indeed was a terrorist trained by Al Quaeda which is problematic on its own) is evidence of an irresponsibility that pervades their entire agenda and is in no way in the best interests of the American people, no matter which way you look at any of the individual issues. The President’s renewed zeal to pursue his plans as exhibited in Wednesday night’s SOTU address clearly emphasizes the fact that not only is he incompetent, but that he, himself, is a danger and a threat to the best interests of our nation.

  3. southernjames Says:

    I thought I read somewhere that they may move it to West Point. That would solve any NIMBY embarassment for them. Just give an order that must be obeyed. Pushback is such an inconvenience and impediment to the enlightened progressive agenda.

  4. Occam's Beard Says:

    This is exactly why I doubt that Obama is all that bright. His performance (from the Skip Gates fiasco to this) screams that he’s an idiot; he consistently fails to anticipate likely outcomes of decisions. How totally predictable was this reaction from NYC?

    So where to hold the trial? Before you reluctantly accede to reality and common sense, and having a military tribunal at Gitmo, Barry, how about suggesting Detroit? Even if the terrorists bomb it, who could tell the difference?

    Berkeley/SF would be another excellent choice. They’re fans of KSM in the first place, and if al Qaeda hasn’t gotten that memo and attacks, there will be a certain poetic justice.

    What a fool this man is.

  5. huxley Says:

    [Obama] consistently fails to anticipate likely outcomes of decisions. How totally predictable was this reaction from NYC?

    Yeah, this looked like a train wreck from the git-go. I could never see how it was going to work for the Obama administration once the trial started.

    I’ll be surprised if a civilian trial anywhere takes place.

    Again and again we see the Obami doing things that feel good in the moment, such as the attack on the Supremes in SOTU, then rebound against them later — like their attacks on Fox News.

    Much of it seems to be their campaign mindset in which grand cliams, promises and attacks work to win elections, but not so well when governing.

  6. Bill West Says:

    There’s really only two choices – Guantanamo or D.C.

    D.C. is used to traffic snarls anyway. And Holder can grandstand about how he’s not scared of a few guys in handcuffs.

    Isn’t Holder’s old firm providing much of the defense? This way they can commute rather than have to incur the travel & lodging expense of a trail in NYC.

  7. Gray Says:

    I thought the whole f’ing point of holding the Civil Trial in New York was because that is where the “crime” took place.

    If what KSM did was a crime, and not an act of war against the US, then New York is the venue. If you can move the trial out of New York to any federal court in America, aren’t you tacitly admitting it was an act of war, not just a local crime?

    Doesn’t there have to be all kinds of “Change of Venue” motions and hearings to take a trial out of one place and try it in another?

    Furthermore, how the hell does the prosecution get to decide the venue? Wouldn’t a defense just accuse the prosecution of jury-shopping to get a more favorable verdict?

    Based on what little I know civil law, none of this makes sense. None of it….

  8. Occam's Beard Says:

    Memo to Barry: Man up, accept that you’ve stepped in the dog’s business, and have a military tribunal at Gitmo.

    Do it now. You know it’s going to come to it sooner or later, so make it sooner. One of my favorite saying is “the wise man does immediately what the fool does eventually.”

  9. huxley Says:

    Gray: I don’t think there is a plan. First they have to find a venue that might work before they start making the legal bits line up.

    I take it as part of the general flailing about which characterizes almost everything the Obama administration does these days.

    Today Obama was reduced to proclaiming, “I am not an ideologue.” Shades o’ Tricky Dick!

    My sense is that Obama can’t stabilize the loss of faith in him and his administration. The SOTU didn’t do the trick and there’s all these problems like the KSM trial, Obamacare, and Afghanistan that won’t go away.

    Hold on to your hats, boys and girls, but the wheels may be coming off the Obama Hope’n'Change Little Engine That Could faster than we thought.

  10. Mr. Frank Says:

    The smart choice would have been a military trial at Gitmo. Given that Obama can’t do that, his best bet is a large military base in an unpopulated area. A good choice would be the secret Air Force base in Area 51 in southern Nevada. The security there is very tight.

  11. csimon Says:

    There’s really only two choices – Guantanamo or D.C.

    I think 535 members of Congress would be the first to have something to say about that!

  12. Bob From Virginia Says:

    Occam are you suggesting that Obamessiah admit to a mistake? But g-ds do not make mistakes.

    I suspect at some level he sees eye to eye with KSM, hence the desire to give him a platform. KSM will say the things that would be politically unwise for O to say in a matter can exploit. There are abundant actions and statements by Obama that indicates he hates or at the very least has contempt for the US. Granting a public trial for KSM seems in character with an America hater.

  13. Occam's Beard Says:

    Bob, I know it’s a big request, but I think eventually he’ll have to swallow his pride and do it.

    No one wants the trial near them. Nobody. The more Obama/Holder shop it around, the more pushback they’re going to get. Gitmo was and is perfect, a truly inspired choice by W. It’s the ultimate in security: no one enters the area without permission, totally escape-proof, and not American soil.

    Sooner or later the Messiah is going to see the light and realize all this. To any of His or Soros’s minions who are paid to monitor websites, let me offer this out for them: find some pretext that “changes everything” and then implement Bush’s plan A. The MSM will give you cover, so it won’t look like the climbdown is actually is, regardless of how tenuous or even risible the connection may be. The Christmas “Hot Nuts” bomber was the perfect fig leaf, but you let that opportunity slip. The Haitian earthquake even could have served in a pinch. But at this point, any way out is a good way out.

  14. holmes Says:

    Try him in the middle of Texas, but then release him on bail. And that will take care of that.

  15. Gray Says:

    Gray: I don’t think there is a plan. First they have to find a venue that might work before they start making the legal bits line up.

    Now isn’t that precisely what our entire legal system was set up to prevent?

    I’m saying it now:

    I’d rather live under a legal system that lets KSM walk after the interrogations, violations of 4th and 5th ammendments, Habeas Corpus and Miranda Rights than one that will convict him after a show trial–and this extra-legal nonsense!

    He is not a criminal. He is a combatant with no standing under the Geneva Convention.

    Legally, he should have been interrogated harshly, beaten, waterboarded until he floated, summarily executed and buried in a pig carcass, face-up under a transparent lexan urinal in a restroom in Logan airport.

    The idea of trying KSM in a civil court, after the Obama legal shenanigans, causes me rightly to fear my Legal System more than terrorism.

  16. Artfldgr Says:

    maybe they can try them on that other island where they let the others go :)

  17. huxley Says:

    Now isn’t that precisely what our entire legal system was set up to prevent?

    Gray: What can I say? The Obama DOJ dismissal of the BlackPanther voter intimidation lawsuit makes no sense to me either.

    No, these people are hyper-partisan, non-transparent, and not particularly honest.

  18. turfmann Says:

    I’m a non-attorney spokesman…

    Since our Dear Leader has decided to try KSM, et al in Federal Criminal Court there are only three places that the trial can be held – the three locations that the crimes took place – the states of New York, Virginia and Pennsylvania.

    If Dear Leader were not such an ideologue, he could revert to the military system and try KSM, et al in Cuba. It has the court facilities in place and security really isn’t going to be a problem. There are a whole bunch of Nathan R. Jessups there that will make sure nothing bad will happen.

    Other than that, Palin hits the nail squarely upon the head in her facebook post on this subject. Too bad that with all of the ivy league best and brightest running the show in D.C. that it’s a semi-employed housewife from the great white north that possesses the common sense.


  19. Terrye Says:

    Well, hell, they should have known better. Nothing has changed, all the elements are the same today as they were when Obama and Holder said they wanted to do this.

    BTW, is West Point a civilian or military area?

  20. Obloodyhell Says:

    > It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Will the next venue chosen also say “NIMBY (not in my backyard)?”

    Naw. I’m sure in Wyoming they’d welcome the peanut concession…

  21. expat Says:

    Obama’s great close-Gitmo and try-KSM-in-a-civil-court decisions were designed to capture world headlines to improve America’s image. Such is the superficial thinking of The Won. He got his headlines, and now backing down on them makes us look even worse. Obama seems to think that world opinion is based on knowledge of the law and the facts involved. In fact it is based on what local media can summarize from the first paragraph of a NYT story and a HRW press release. (This is like IPCC using WWF press releases.)

    This idiot makes loud pronouncements based on his perception of what people think before ever looking into the facts. His base knowledge is so poor that his first reactions are disastrous. Every backdown diminishes America’s credibility. Thanks a lot, Barry.

  22. waltj Says:

    The biggest problem I see with this whole goat-rope isn’t the security of the trial venue. It’s a concern, certainly, but the Marshals Service has had a lot of practice with high-profile, high-risk trials, and they know what to do to mitigate the risks for this one.

    No, I see a much greater danger: the wholesale disclosure of our hard-won intelligence information–sources, methods, the whole shebang, to defense attorneys, who may or may not be of the Lynne Stewart variety, and to the press. While much of KSM’s information is dated by now, details on how he was caught, the types of questions he was asked during his debriefing, and the kinds of answers that seemed to pique the most interest in the debriefers are topics that any current Al-Qaeda operative would like to know about.

  23. JFM Says:

    How about holding the trial in Chicago? Sort of a consolation prize for losing out on the Olympics.

  24. Paul_In_Houston Says:

    Terrye Says:
    January 30th, 2010 at 7:05 am

    Well, hell, they should have known better.

    But, doesn’t that perfectly describe this administration since Day One?


  25. Katemaclaren Says:

    “A good choice would be the secret Air Force base in Area 51 in southern Nevada. The security there is very tight.”

    I completely agree with this.

    I also agree that there is growing evidence that Obama is not as smart as has been trumpeted. The man cannot see possible outcomes. He seems like an actor playing a role–and so doesn’t give live press conferences any longer–anyone really notice that he can’t get his facts straight (Republican retreat Q&A is the latest proof) and when pressed–he shuts down debate and “moves on” to deal with the issue “later”. If he didn’t have the teleprompter, I suspect we would see a lot more of these gaps in his grasp of facts and consequences–It reminds me of when I found out that Lee Marvin (who I had really liked) was almost illiterate. Off script, and Obama will expose how weak his intellect is and when that happens often enough–his petty carping and jibes will just further disillusion people who fell for the illusion in the first place.

  26. Perfected democrat Says:

    If I may reiterate, Obama is a very bright fellow, he and his pals know exactly what they’re doing. He’s a born and bred moslem-communist posing as a Christian Democrat, maintaining a politically expedient position in his party, and staying just below the threshold which would define treason and impeachment. When the heat is on the Dems will make appearances to placate the center, ie. offshore drilling, etc. is now acceptable (SOTU), while they’ve also changed their mind about the trial location, hoping to avoid alienating a critical bloc of voters; anything to pursue their radical left-wing agenda and simultaneously hold on to power.

  27. Ray Says:

    I don’t care where they hold the trial. It is going to be more fun than the O. J. Simpson trial where the defense portrayed OJ as the victim and put the police on trial. It was also amusing watching the PC prosecuting attorneys.

  28. Perfected democrat Says:

    Maybe there was an element of black (no pun intended) humor with the O.J. trial, but two people were murdered. This, on the other hand, is an issue of mass murder, with staggering geopolitical ramifications for the future. Personally, I’ve entirely lost my sense of humor concerning the Obama crowd, from top to bottom, including my oblivious friends and family. Way too much, far beyond health care issues, etc., is now at stake.

  29. Splashman Says:

    holmes says:
    Try him in the middle of Texas, but then release him on bail. And that will take care of that.

    Holmes for the win!

    Seriously, Gitmo is the only rational choice. Anywhere on US soil is an irrational choice.

    Obama and his cronies are not stupid, but their ideological agenda trumps all, even their own reasoning faculties (such as they are).

  30. strcpy Says:

    “There’s really only two choices – Guantanamo or D.C.”

    No, there is the World Court in Prague, which I am somewhat surprised wasn’t the choice to begin with given his ideas.

    At least within the US this is going to be like moving prisoners out of Guantanamo – who is going to take them? No one wants them at all, they know what a fiasco the trial will be, the danger the trial will entail, and do not want to be the city he is found not guilty and released in.

    Now, Prague I think will not have that problem – the chance to put Bush on trial by proxy would be a big one. They also seem to be looking for anyway they can appease them so letting this guy go is a plus.

    Obama could also make a big show of world unity and have a few digs at the US in there too.

    Wouldn’t surprise me either way.

  31. Paul_In_Houston Says:

    Perfected democrat Says:
    January 30th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    If I may reiterate, Obama is a very bright fellow, he and his pals know exactly what they’re doing.

    I have heard that, almost since Day One.

    I’ve yet to see any real evidence to support it.

    I believe this jerk is a “wysiwyg” president
    (What You See Is What You Get).

    So, how in Hell did he get where he is?

    He seems to have some handlers who are very good at getting someone elected, in what appears to have been a perfect storm of electoral circumstances, but are now finding that actually running things successfully is a whole ‘nother story.

    This emperor wannabee truly has no clothes; people are realizing it, and his ability to spin it as optical illusion is fast fading.

    We have a truly interesting 10 monthes ahead of us.


  32. Perfected democrat Says:

    Paul, I don’t really disagree with you, right from the beginning I had him pegged as a kind of “Manchurian Candidate” for the power hungry Dems. Don’t misconstrue my suggestion that he is “smart”; in fact he has the IQ, he’s well educated in many respects, and he was successful in becoming POTUS; he is no fool. We all know that several Dems at the top of the party are eating their hearts out because of their own frustrated ambitions, but unelectability; and that they had to defer to him as the candidate when early on they didn’t have a great deal of fundamental respect for him. There’s already serious talk that Hillary will challenge him for the next election; couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, quite exemplary of the Dems sense of loyalty, generally. The fact that his (their) performance is incompetent doesn’t imply that these people aren’t smart, they’re smart like criminals, master manipulators. If things don’t work out they’re quite flexible, anything to keep the confidence game going. Bait and switch on the early representation, then when it doesn’t work out, switch back to the center to try to retain the voters; ie. demagoguery with the global warming scam, and health care they insist has to be accomplished in a massive rushed package rather than cautiously, incrementally with authentic transparency. Obama is smart like a fox, and right now he and the gang have control of the hen house….

  33. Boots Says:

    The other solution to the KSM trial is to dither about it endlessly until he and his fellow terrorists die of old age. Just keep them locked up and overfed.

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