April 27th, 2010

Will the party of “no” be able to stop the immigration reform and climate change bills?

Republicans have been accused of being the party of “no.” The idea is that being perceived as blocking rather than facilitating legislation is ordinarily an unpopular stance. But it could wind up being popular to say “no” to unpopular bills.

But—as I wrote yesterday—we can no longer credit reports that a certain bill is dead in the water. So I take this and this news with a hefty grain of salt.

RINO Lindsay Graham appears to be the key figure in blocking both efforts, since he was previously the key “bipartisan” figure in support of both efforts. I do not trust him to maintain his opposition. But there is little question that, without the election of Scott Brown, the Democrats probably wouldn’t even need to court Graham’s favor at all; they could probably garner enough votes without him, as they did for HCR.

27 Responses to “Will the party of “no” be able to stop the immigration reform and climate change bills?”

  1. Ilíon Says:

    Republicans ought to be proud that the leftists wish to call them “the party of ‘No’.” And, if they were savvy, they’d retort, “I’m afraid you misunderstand — we’re the Party of Hell, No!

    Always remember: the US Constitution intends for the Federal government to be “inefficient;” for it intends that that government be divided against itself so that it cannot be united against us.

  2. Artfldgr Says:

    Dont matter..
    the financials will catch us and they will use that to act assuming its what leaders do

  3. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    “the financials will catch us and they will use that to act”

    That’s certainly a possibility. That explanation of their behavior however is not entirely consistent with their desire to create a VAT to raise revenue. A VAT will significantly delay the onset of economic collapse.

    The explanation that best fits the facts is that Obama and the Dems are trying to emulate Europe and create a socialistic democracy. No doubt they dismiss the current economic problems in Europe as solely due to the recession and thus temporary.

    Not being interested in letting mere economic facts intrude upon their “glorious march toward social justice”, they have convinced themselves that the “better, more socially ‘just’ world” they shall leave future generations, more than makes up for any economic distress we might have to endure or loss of freedoms we must sacrifice.

    At some point, the debt, deficits and spending are going to bankrupt us, when they do, it will either be seen by the left as an opportunity to get passage of laws and regulations which decrease freedoms or as an opportunity to blame capitalism and the Republicans.

    Their denial as to their culpability in all of this will of course, be complete.

  4. Artfldgr Says:

    A VAT will significantly delay the onset of economic collapse.

    how so?

    i was being a bit prescient since the Greek Portugal situation had not happened yet, but i knew it would very shortly.

    i see a VAT hurrying things along as all spending on non necessities (ie bourgeoisie luxuries) falls back a huge amount…

    I see food prices going up more than the 10-20% they have already…

    and i see MAED causing a serious ding in our rating. once our rating changes even a tiny bit, it will be like pulling the flush handle.

    for the first time i see starvation in places it hasnt been seen in a time…

    and, let me know if the Club-K system doesn’t destabilize everything… (do note that we have moved our financing of military to lower than before WWII as a percentage of GDP – a huge amount of ordinance is about to go out of date – they like to use it – and we dont really have replacement)

    the fact that cuba is running chavez military isnt comforting either. mostly because this puts someone in a drivers seat where they do not pay the bills for the actions they can take being in control.

    that is, they can do and not have to pay for whatever they do, and i will guess that chavez doesnt know he doesnt have his country any more (as they let him act as if he is and leave it at that for the moment).

    i see some serious sludge coming our way, and i see an electorate behaving as if they are in a vaccume and that nastier others will just sit back and watch.

    there is a very real chance that if they continue to keep playing the game they think will end where they think it will end, it may end up being on the receiving end of a extreme act which they are completely incapable of handling.

    they think that screwdrivers, wrenches, and pliers can have friends…

  5. jon baker Says:

    NEO, you are a great writer. I beg you to research the “Matricular Consular Card”, how congress authorized it for banking, the 50 + Mexican Consulates operating inside the US (bound to be a record for number of consulates in another country) -handing out those cards to illegals- and how both parties in the US have allowed this.

    “Border security” is a game. They have not -either party-intended to secure the border for a long time.

  6. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Artflgdr,

    ??? Do you really expect us to make sense of those last paragraphs?

    “A VAT will significantly delay the onset of economic collapse.”

    “how so?”

    The VAT certainly will significantly increase the cost of goods to the consumer. But the gov’t. will harvest vast new revenues which will allow them to keep the ponzi scheme going longer, perhaps much longer.

    They also, as you allude to, intend to greatly reduce expenditures on defense.

    Plus, they’re not done soaking the rich either and are laying plans for global pursuit of the rich. IRS Launches New Global Program to Target ‘High Wealth Individuals’ http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/63761

    Here’s a good preview of what we could expect with a VAT; that bastion of liberality, the NYT, in a 2005 article about Norway describes that socialistic paradise;

    We’re Rich, You’re Not. End of Story.
    “In Oslo, library collections are woefully outdated, and public swimming pools are in desperate need of maintenance. News reports describe serious shortages of police officers and school supplies.

    When my mother-in-law went to an emergency room recently, the hospital was out of cough medicine. Drug addicts crowd downtown Oslo streets, as the Los Angeles Times recently reported, but applicants for methadone programs are put on a months-long waiting list.

    After I moved here six years ago, I quickly noticed that Norwegians live more frugally than Americans do. They hang on to old appliances and furniture that we would throw out. And they drive around in wrecks.

    It is not simply a matter of tradition, or a preference for a basic, non-materialistic life.

    Dining out is just too pricey in a country where teachers, for example, make about $50,000 a year before taxes. Even the humblest of meals – a large pizza delivered from Oslo’s most popular pizza joint – will run from $34 to $48, including delivery fee and a 25 percent value added tax.

    Not that groceries are cheap, either. Every weekend, armies of Norwegians drive to Sweden to stock up at supermarkets that are a bargain only by Norwegian standards. And this isn’t a great solution, either, since gasoline (in this oil-exporting nation) costs more than $6 a gallon.”

    So, what will happen in Obama’s socialistic utopia is the impoverishment of America, which will have to find solace in the fact that the majority of Americans will be equally miserable.

  7. anna Says:

    Don’t forget Olympia Snowe – the local paper here has been running stories about how willing she would be to “step across the aisle” and be “bipartisan” on the finance bill.

    on a positive note, the local paper’s comments section has been getting worse and worse in its criticism of both the paper and the politicians. yay.

  8. Curtis Says:

    NEO wrote:

    “But there is little question that, without the election of Scott Brown, the Democrats probably wouldn’t even need to court Graham’s favor at all; they could probably garner enough votes without him, as they did for HCR.”

    I would like to remind everyone that without the Al Franken debacle, we wouldn’t have needed Scott Brown. If the Democrats pull an Acorn come this election, I’m gonna become a little uncorked.

  9. F Says:

    I’m with Curtis on this: Franken’s accession (it was NOT an “election”) to the Senate changed the world dramatically. And that act was as corrupt as can be imagined and partially the result of something George Soros instituted several years ago: financing to get Democrats elected to as many Secretary of State jobs all across America as possible. One man — George Soros — has managed to buy access to electoral results in a number of US states, and his effort has been a large part in the debacle we face today. I will not just be a little uncorked if the Democrats manage to hijack more elections this fall — I will be downright outraged. We all need to be outraged; so outraged that we put an end to the successful replacement of a highly respected electoral process into a banana republic type activity that is only one step above voting with bullets. And who is to say that is not next? F

  10. James Says:

    Curtis,

    If any election in November is as close as the Franken election, the Democrat will win it. Given the complexity of the situation, Democrats can always cheat by 0.05%. Republicans generally won’t cheat at all. Its up to the Republicans to win by more than the margin of cheating.

  11. njcommuter Says:

    Let’s put this in plain terms;

    Poverty will hasten the day of economic reckoning. Prosperity may allow us to escape it.

    The foundation of prosperity is profit. Profit. Profit. That’s right. Without profit there is poverty, not prosperity.

    Burdening business with yet another tax that must be passed along to customers, employees, or owners/investors will be like a painless wound that keeps bleeding. It will destroy profitability, diminish or destroy prosperity, and destroy our chances of clawing our way out of the pit instead of digging ourselves deeper into it.

    For the sake of our future, taxes MUST be placed so that every member of society can see them and will understand what government takes.

    The best proposal I’ve seen is a national sales tax such as the Fair Tax IN PLACE OF ALL OTHER FEDERAL LEVIES. But if it would only replace all the taxes on business, it would be a great improvement.

    Without the signal set by price, we cannot make rational choices. And taxes are the price at which we buy government.

  12. John Says:

    Elect George Soros eliminate the middle man.

  13. Sergey Says:

    Destabilisation of the world financial system is marching ahead with a fearful acceleration. Its collapse can overturn all political calculations of this moment, and it can happen any time soon.

  14. Artfldgr Says:

    REAL free peoples do not vote war easily, aristocrats, even socialist ones, devalue the people till their behavior towards each other as nations is to throw their devalued over fecund masses at each other for their personal gain. Their economies become moribund, to the point of having to take or enter another economy to get the boost back to maintain. This is why they remove all entertainments and such, it makes it easier to start wars. When you have nothing, then you have nothing to lose.

  15. Hangtown Bob Says:

    I like being a member of “The Party of Know”.

    I KNOW that Cap and Tax will destroy the economy. I KNOW that AGW is at most insignificant and most likely a total hoax. I KNOW that adding millions to the health care system will increase costs. I KNOW that the government will never eliminate the waste and fraud in Medicare and in the rest of the government. I KNOW that failure to enforce the laws of this country will only lead to more breaking of these laws. I KNOW….. I KNOW….. I KNOW…..

    I am proud to be a member of the Party of Know.

  16. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    Curtis, I’m with James on this. Hugh Hewitt’s wonderful title If It’s Not Close, They Can’t Cheat should be an encouragement to us.

    Granted that Democrats will find more ways to cheat, they are still not able to move wide swaths of votes. That could theoretically come over time, but it’s not there now. Evan Thomas’s estimate of the MSM granting a 10-15% advantage to the Democrats was likely true in its time, but it is less true now.

    We have known for two decades that we would win dramatically with a straight-up fair fight (I would include significant inroads against RINO’s in the primaries in that calculation), but that’s not going to happen. I would say that the growth of alternative media more than offsets the growth of Democratic cleverness in gaming the elections. It’s still not a level playing field, and vigilance in election-fairness is still important. But be of good cheer.

    The old saying in handicapping political horse races is “six months is an eternity.” We’re six months out now. The current strategy of the Obama election team is to keep floating hints that we have started to recover, creating a groundswell of acceptance for that idea whether it has any merit or not. Once it has a foothold, they can ratchet up the rosiness gradually. Whether the overall economic news is good or bad, a skilled spinner can pick out elements to make it appear one way or the other.

    My current counter-strategy, not very subtle, is to say “That’s ridiculous. Not only does one robin not make a spring, there aren’t any robins. Just the idea of robins, the prediction of robins, the promise of robins. Show me robins.”

  17. Occam's Beard Says:

    Elect George Soros eliminate the middle man.

    Hey! That’s my line! /g

  18. Artfldgr Says:

    hope this is better for you GOB.

    Geoffrey of Britain ??? Do you really expect us to make sense of those last paragraphs?

    Have you not learned that I do not respond well to ad hominem as a debate form? that brutal commentary from someone I don’t know, doesn’t affect me, has no entitlement to my life and energies, and all that, will not get you anywhere (you would actually want to go).

    So here is my answer. NO, I only expect SOME of those with the capacity to read, comprehend, and do so with texts harder than 5th or 8th grade, the latter being the old standard of the middle of last century, the former the current standard.

    GOB, you don’t have to read me. You don’t HAVE to understand me.
    But trying to control other people is the whole core of the problem we face
    And if we can’t get control of ourselves and that particular attitude, as you so clearly show then we are no better than other despots and control freaks.

    Personally I am a completely free man who is subject to no idiots missives or insults to move me to where THEY want for THEM.

    Personally doing such is what idiots do best as its their majority method of parasitism.

    Is that a better answer GOB….

    The VAT certainly will significantly increase the cost of goods to the consumer. But the gov’t. will harvest vast new revenues which will allow them to keep the ponzi scheme going longer, perhaps much longer.

    Part of good reading skills is understanding that the answer you just gave was not an answer and that the sentences were sarcasm to get us to move off the canned responses which are propagandist lies and move us to real answers that follow cause and effect.

    The govt will NOT harvest new revenues, it will harvest LESS.
    And if you would take a minute, and concentrate real hard, you will see that this will happen because this is a dynamic and adaptable system, it REACTS to STIMULI.

    And to get this, one has to think synoptically… a talent that most do not have, and most fancy they do. In fact they are so poor at it, you can slowly move a population to self slavery!!!!!!!!!!! That you can divide a quarter into a heads piece and a half piece is inane but the ignorant do it. Just as they make false summations. The trick is in knowing.

    Here is what will happen… they will talk for a while, like now… and those who are a bit more intelligent will put some food and other stables away… they will go up in price, and there will be a salary lag. So better to buy some now, sit tight and so on. I learned that from depression era people.

    So what will happen is that there will be a big buy out at the low tax rate.
    The tax rate will rise, and of course… the money will not appear.

    As I said,the majority worker will continue to buy food, but will NOT continue to buy doohickeys. Our economy is MOSTLY doohickeys not food and fuel. So when they stop buying the products that put cash into a majority of spenders pockets, they will also stop buying doohickies.

    Now, here is the fun part. if you know communism, and socialism, and all that as what it REALLY is, then you would know that luxuries are a bad thing. the problem is that you don’t get that everything above food, fuel, shelter, basic med, is considered a luxury by them, and so EVERYTHING of that sort is a waste and a inefficiency.

    As far as owners go, they are owners of a farm, not a house. You are not a pet with toys, you are a drought horse. One only has to read the Washington times and its expose article on falun gong, and house Christians. Tibetans being mined for body parts. In prison they are a cost, in the street they are a danger promoting religion, but imprisoned and taken apart, they are worth 100k to the Chinese government. isn’t PRAGMATISM great?

    ONLY the people in state who are more important than you and I, get to have any of these things. your going to have to have them removed from you as they facilitate capital and success and that facilitates opposition, and they will NOT allow opposition, which is why the family has to go (they are well along with this), social romantic pairings (as they will die for each other not the state), religion has to go (other than Islam (for now)), art work is philosophically a waste other than for the state (see NEA social justice pages), pets and such have to go…

    And so you think a vat will delay things..
    I am telling you that it will FACILIATE things
    Because as supply of money goes down, we restrict out purchases to basic needs
    And if the majority only have enough for housing, electricity, food and a bit of med, what is there left to tax, or to take?

    Now granted this is a longer paragraph than my originals,. But it seems that the slow ones want an explanation in detail that is too large for them to read and that when its smaller they are too ignorant of principals and potentials, that they don’t understand it.

    They also, as you allude to, intend to greatly reduce expenditures on defense.

    Well, I didn’t ALLUDE to it, I SAID it… that might be why you don’t understand what I write, you have a general inexact grasp of English, and I write from an exacting place.

    To allude is to say without saying…

    we have moved our financing of military to lower than before WWII as a percentage of GDP

    That is a STATEMENT… not an allusion… while it sounds nice when you write to use words like allusion, you really have to wait for someone to make one, in order to use it.

    We HAVE already moved it to the level I have said and you are stating is coming.
    What’s coming is moving it LOWER. than that.
    While at the same time, Russia is mass producing a cheap missile system that will facilitate using shipping containers from china as an invasion potential. At the very least it will make every productive country vulnerable in ways that the unproductive despotic ones are not.

    That is, we would have to accept the missiles in order to get our supplies
    Bet you didn’t see that synoptic view! (and that’s why my simple sentences don’t reach you. without me pointing it out, and spoon feeding you like pabulum, you cant see it. and you can thank the education system invented by the soviets, transplanted by Dewey and copied by all the western states as they use the Prussian model…)

    they’re not done soaking the rich either and are laying plans for global pursuit of the rich.

    That wont work.. if it did, then WWII would more easily be ended by ignoring Germany and going for their money. Problem was it was the relatives of the people usurping power now that were funding the Germans (and Russians before that)…

    The rich are mobile, especially the ones that they want to go after.
    They CANT go after them.

    Here is why… and what you and others don’t see… (by choice, because if you did, you would have to find other ideas, rather than banging on the bs one they handed you like a chew toy (for your mind to keep busy on)).

    How much is one of those super wealthy people?
    Gates over 40 BILLION
    Paul McCartney? Half a billion

    See there are different leagues

    But imagine you decided to actually go after them.. what would happen if paul mcartney, bill gates, warren buffet, and more… each pledged 10% and used that to fund weaponry of EVERY terrorist group they could.

    I mean, what if bill gates, says… better to put 10 billion contract out on American state than let them take that 10 billion and use it against me and my family?

    Not possible? Well that is EXACTLY what happened. Osama bin laden is worth how much? why is he still worth anything? Ayers? He is from a wealthy family, no? what is he doing with that time and such? Soros?

    The idea is like the soviets. They pretend to go after the wealthy, and the wealthy pretend they are being hunted… but in truth, you can’t go after someone that can fund your whole army for a few years out of their pocket. Can you?

    So the whole thing, as bella dodd described, is a way for the wealthy to trick YOU, into loseing your life ends, and property.

    They won’t get the rich because they ARE the rich.
    (and everyone is too stupid to see that. here let me put it in a way you can understand given that you have complained: its impossible to elect someone to a position to shoot themselves. you might elect them, but they wont shoot. And if you get one that will, he wont be elected)

    All this just faciliatates their taking of what you have since your weak
    They need your permission to act.

    If they didn’t have some permission, we would LITERALLY take em out and hang em.
    [that used to happen]

    So, what will happen in Obama’s socialistic utopia is the impoverishment of America, which will have to find solace in the fact that the majority of Americans will be equally miserable.

    No.. that’s not the end story… your story of a beaten people (which is what it is) as being morally superior, doesn’t cut it with someone who has seen where tha will goeventually. All your doing is describing what all of Norway, and Sweden and other sdocialist countries and America have always denied.

    Socialism, communism, fascism, and progressivism are the same thing

    Want to know there are other people that behave the same way you just described?

    Well, my grandparents… they too had been beaten by life and socialist circumstances.
    And a person who is bit by a dog hard, they avoid dogs, and the things that would allow another bite to hurt more. In this case, owning property which hurts to lose.

    You spin it as a morally superior way of life..

    But it isnt. Not because living that way is not moral, it is. but living that way because you were whipped is not the same thing as embracing that way because you are that way.

    The final end to it is that they will nto spend on invention. they will squirrel for rainy days, and will nto take risks.

    The behavior you described is ‘risk aversion’, not cultural moral choices.

    You even point out the Pavlovian training they got to be that way
    And that even though they are no longer there, like a good pet they still behave the way the masters made them behave!!!

    When soviets came here, they did the same thing
    When Ukrainians came here, they did the same thing
    When Slovaks, and Czechs came here, they did the same thing
    When Latvians came here, they did the same thing

    And just so you don’t say its western culture..
    When chinese came here, Vietnamese came here, etc.. they did the same thing.

    Want to know why immigrants succeed more than residential Americans (47% who don’t work)…

    Because they behave this way, and that gives them the capital that the other Americans don’t believe they can get. and they work together, because they have not learned how to be Americans, and piss on each other that much. they also know not to get sucked into the politics… (notice how few of those in the know actually go on line to help make things better. they know that its potential SUICIDE in the long run. or haven’t you noticed the progressives looking to make anything in the past something they can use?)

    I am hoping that this longer piece was more understandable.
    And hoping that I am not one who will respond with kindness to insulting stuff

    You address me in a way that is insulting your going to get a response that is insulting
    If you don’t realize that you’re insulting, and its normalized, that’s not my problem. Its yours.

    Problem is that most people who want to debate, don’t wan to work and learn and get all the facts… so they resort to thinking its clever to cheat and a win by cheating is equal to a win by honest competition. Its not.

    I am not an academic, I am an inner city street kid, and so if you want to debate like an academic, I am fine with that. And if you want to pull bladed and go to it, I am fine with that too, I grew up in a social war zone, its no skin off my back, its just a return to a very brutal childhood (which I would rather not).

    An academic might be intimidated by such… I am not. it’s a waste of time. and being such I do not respond in kind as you see above. Keep a clean fight, and you wont find out how dirty your opponent can be. Assuming you have the upper hand is assuming he is not capable of returning fire dirtier than you.

    Sometimes nice and honest doesn’t mean weak and scared.
    Sometimes it means powerful, and compassionate

    Being 6’3” and 230lbs I have learned that last point…
    And that using other means, means losing, even if you steal the trophy.

  19. Artfldgr Says:

    Elect George Soros eliminate the middle man.

    Hey! That’s my line! /g

    i prefer..

    When your tired of voting for the lesser of two evils…

  20. Artfldgr Says:

    The foundation of prosperity is profit. Profit. Profit. That’s right. Without profit there is poverty, not prosperity.

    no.. the foundation of prosperity is PROPERTY

    one has to own before one can profit.

    so one owns oneself as an individual and can earn a salary by renting oneself out to other people for an acceptable amount.

    you can work FREELY because you own yourself.

    in a collective, as we are moving to, you do NOT own yourself, the collective does. and so you cant actually contract your labor or anything, because its not yours to contract out

    happiness in the constitution is a referral to property

    socialism enslaves the population by understanding that a man with no property has no place of his own.

    by owning everything material, they own all the people who have no right to be on their property witout compensation. and since tehy own nothing, then slavery is the compensation.

    as i have been trying to say, LEARN about the ideology its implications and such.. then you will understand them.

    to think that profit is a foundation, is to forget property.

    and

    failure to understand property is foundational, you might just accept a bit of socialism as a good thing

    but once they acted this way, ALL property was theirs. time was the only thing left remaining.

    you try to make a profit from nothing!!!

  21. Artfldgr Says:

    Its collapse can overturn all political calculations of this moment, and it can happen any time soon.

    ALL except for one Sergey

    the one that anticipated just that and saw that, and planned for that!!!

  22. Curtis Says:

    Art: Logorrhea is a fault only endurable during filibustering. Even then a certain smell clings.

  23. Occam's Beard Says:

    Soros/Beelzebub 2012!

  24. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Well this is nice. WordPress is not allowing me to comment.

  25. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    Now it makes a liar out of me. I composed a response to Artfldgr’s spurious accusation of insulting him, which I did not and it won’t take the comment. I did use a few html tags but only bold and italics…

  26. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    Geoffrey, don’t bother. Artfl doesn’t listen. I just skip all his posts now.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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