May 31st, 2010

The Israeli commando raid and the aid ship

The headlines scream a story that looks for all the world like those dreadful Israelis boarded a ship that was on a humanitarian mission to poor beleaguered Gaza, and killed a bunch of good people for no reason (“Deadly Israeli Raid on Aid Flotilla Draws Condemnation”).

But if you want the story behind the story, look here and here. Some excerpts:

The voyage is symbolic because Israel routinely allows food, medical supplies, etc., into Gaza. Israel has invited the activists to dock at an Israeli port, where the cargo will be unloaded, searched, and then shipped into Gaza. But that, the flotilla’s organizers say, is a “ridiculous and offensive” suggestion…

Now, Israeli naval vessels are moving to intercept the flotilla. They will tell the ships that they must proceed to Ashdod harbor or else be boarded.

That’s how the incident began. And why was Israel being so mean? Could it perhaps have anything to do with the fact that “aid” workers and “humanitarian” efforts have been used countless times to smuggle munitions and assistance for terrorists to Gaza? Could it be that the Israelis have a right to be suspicious, that the blockade is a self-protective measure, and that the “aid” workers’ defiance of the search was suspicious if their aims were actually innocent?

When the boarding occurred, trouble ensued:

Israeli officials said that the ships would be taken to an Israeli port and that food, medical supplies and so on would be delivered to Gaza by a land route. But that isn’t what the activists wanted; their interest wasn’t in supplying Gaza, which is easily done, but in provoking a confrontation for propaganda purposes.

Last night they got their wish. When Israeli soldiers boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara…they were attacked with clubs and iron bars, and may have been shot at…The upshot was that the Israeli troops were authorized to fire in self-defense, and at least ten left-wing activists, mostly or entirely Turks, were killed. A number of activists and soldiers were also injured.

Defy, provoke, and become martyrs. Then watch the world buy your narrative and condemn the Israelis as fascist thugs.

In this case, President Obama (with whom I rarely agree) released a statement in which he actually said something correct. “[T]he president…expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning’s tragic events as soon as possible.”

The facts as known so far? Even the Times grudgingly admits that a video released by the Israelis “of the early moments of the raid…seemed to support” the Israelis claim that they were attacked and fired back in self-defense:

The Israeli Defense Forces said the naval personnel boarding the largest of the six ships in the aid convoy met with “live fire and light weaponry including knives and clubs.” The naval forces then “employed riot dispersal means, including live fire,” the military said in a statement.

Greta Berlin, a leader of the pro-Palestinian Free Gaza Movement, speaking by telephone from Cyprus, rejected the military’s version.

“That is a lie,” she said…

Anyone want to guess which version most of the world will believe, exonerating video or no?

[ADDENDUM: More here and here.

And here's the video---courtesy of You Tube:

Ah, those peaceful aid workers!]

[ADDENDUM II: Much more:

It is becoming ever more clear that Islamist terror attacks like this are fiendishly staged theatrical events in which the western media – and beyond them, western governments -- play an absolutely essential role in the drama. If those media and governments refused to swallow the lies and instead called operations like this and the players behind it for what they actually are, such terrorist operations would not happen. The Islamist strategy of war against Israel is carefully calibrated to deploy the most effective weapon in its armoury in the cause of jihadi violence – the western media. Right on cue, western governments accordingly deliver their own script in condemning the victims of terror for defending themselves. And so, courtesy of the west’s fifth columnists, yet another nail is driven into the west’s own coffin.]

50 Responses to “The Israeli commando raid and the aid ship”

  1. Sergey Says:

    Lynching mobs deserve not only violent response, but total extermination. Israely commandos killed much less people than they were within their right to kill.

  2. Sergey Says:

    Israel can do a symmetrical response by sending its own humanitarian aid flotilla under Israeli flag to Kurdish insurgents. Will Ankara object?

  3. Sgt. Mom Says:

    The meme is already all over Open Salon – those nasty Israeli butchers murdering those poor, innocent aid workers – in international waters, yet!
    Nope, no credence given to the video showing otherwise. Nope – here is another massacre at Jenin fake atrocity story, willingly regurgitated by the media.

  4. Perfected democrat Says:

    More to the Obama story, from Rubin Report:

    “Flash: Obama Administration Slaps Israel on Verge of Netanyahu Visit” , Link:

    http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/05/obama-administration-slaps-israel-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rubinreports+%28RubinReports%29&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail

  5. neo-neocon Says:

    Sgt. Mom: see ADDENDUM II above.

  6. Sergey Says:

    Time is ripe for regime change in Turkey. Their military, harassed and brutally repressed by Islamists, need some nudge and operational support to topple Erdogan and his cohorts. Alas, not under this POTUS…

  7. jon baker Says:

    Strange, but not suprising really, the growing psychological alliance between the left and Islam.

  8. jon baker Says:

    As they turn more and more against Israel, I fully expect they will turn more and more against conservatives in general in the US and Conservative Christians especially.

  9. betsybounds Says:

    Well I suppose there’s pretty much no limit to my belief in Obama Regime conspiracies and duplicity. In point:

    “In this case, President Obama (with whom I rarely agree)released a statement in which he actually said something correct.“[T]he president…expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning’s tragic events as soon as possible.””

    I expect President Obama will take prudent time to “learn all the facts and circumstances,” all right. Then, when he has maximized the credibility such care and thoughtfulness can have earned him, he will announce that the Israelis made an unprovoked and irrational attack on peaceful, innocent humanitarian relief workers attempting to bring aid to their fellows in the freedom-loving but Israeli-oppressed Palestinian territory of Gaza.

  10. jon baker Says:

    There was a retired General on the radio a few weeks ago that was saying the indicators are there that a major mutlinational attack is in the works for Israel, possibly this summer. This may be the “excuse” they planned for……….

  11. Curtis Says:

    This incident provides an opportunity for Obama to condemn Israel–something which will justify his earlier treatment of Netanyahu. But maybe Obama learned something from Beergate: don’t immediately take sides and above all don’t take sides while admitting you don’t even know all the facts.

    No nukes for Israel. A mosque at 9/11. Try KSM in New York. Attendance by Obama at a Muslim national prayer day. Refusing to acknowledge the Armenian massacre.

    Obama’s goal is Muslim hegemony which requires the destruction of Israel and the loss of hegemony of the United States. This is the grand scheme and it has become very obvious.

    If you can’t see that Obama is attempting to isolate Israel and the only thing that is stopping him is complete American outrage, then you’re not one of two things: Muslim or pro-Isreal.

  12. Tatyana Says:

    Demonstration of Left+Socialist parties+”Greens”+Arabs in Stokholm today; 7 thousands of well-organized force:
    http://tan-y.livejournal.com/195736.html?style=mine#cutid1

  13. anna Says:

    Neo, here is a weird question that I hope you don’t mind me asking – when you were a liberal, what was your thought/opinion on the Israel/Palestine conflict?

    The reason I ask is this: I was raised in a very anti-Israel home by a Lebanese parent and I remember that at the time my parents were semi-right leaning. I remember that in middle school our classroom used to get this “TIME for kids” as in, TIME magazine for kids. I remember the magazine being very pro-Israel at the time. My parents of course hated it (which meant I did too).

    When I got to college I learned that there was a far left wing contingent of pro-Palestinian people out there and I was like, hey if I am right wing and they are left wing, maybe something I believe is off.

    Long story short, I researched the facts and became pro-Israel, my parents developed BDS and swung far left, so here we are.

    So if TIME was so pro-Israel in the 1990′s, when did pro-Palestinianism become a darling cause of the left? Something happened there that I did not catch. Was it the pro-Islam zeitgeist that developed after 9/11???? Or was it always a far left position that the media just would not touch until the era of Bush hate?

  14. Curtis Says:

    Not a weird question at all, Anna. I hope Neo answers it.

    Congratulations on researching the facts. Who did you consult?

  15. Perfected democrat Says:

    Obama has personal friends in that “convoy”…

  16. Perfected democrat Says:

    See Gateway Pundit:

    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/05/figures-obamas-pal-bill-ayers-top-bundler-jodie-evans-are-top-activists-in-gaza-flotilla-group/

  17. Curtis Says:

    “We are now waiting for one of two good things – either to achieve martyrdom, or to reach Gaza.”

    Peace activist and Obama friend.

    http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4249.htm

  18. Harry the Extremist Says:

    Im waiting on the “disproportionate” response meme from this administration.

  19. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    If I can write the news story blaming Israel before the events have even taken place, the journalists who have already written several in the past must be able to compose them in their sleep. And probably do. It would make a good humor piece. Maybe Onion Network News or Iowahawk should do it. “Critics Say Israel Used Disproportionate Force Against Peaceful Protesters Next Week.”

    Anna, I recall Tikkun, a liberal Jewish magazine in the 1980′s carrying articles about a change showing up in socialist and leftist circles, which they called “more persecuted than thou,” or “trump victim” arguments. At the time, it was still common on the left to see Jews as one victim group among many. But signs of a sea-change were already in place.

    I am relying on impressions here, but I think the fall of the Soviet Union accelerated anti-Israeli feeling. That may seem unrelated, but socialists and the farther left need victims to champion, who are being persecuted by wealthy and successful people. As the Eastern Europeans destroyed many of the victim myths in a few months – turns out they thought they’d been victimised by communist ideology itself, not just communism imperfectly realised – the number of victim groups declined, at least from the socialist perspective. Israel was also rather obviously more successful under increasing capitalism, and demonstrated the need for a strong military, rather than more folksingers.

    In America and Europe, there was a sense of “now that the USSR is gone, we shouldn’t have any more big problems, just small ones.” And small problems, as even mild Good Leftists know, can be resolved by people sitting down and making agreements and having the UN make resolutions. Problems are supposed to just go away. (This sentiment is not unknown on the right, also.) That there was still all this problem in the ME, which Oslo didn’t fix, was just so inconvenient to their world-view.

    And if Israel would just go away, they reason, there would be no more problems there. Mad wish. The problems would change somewhat, as unstable regimes that depend on demonising Israel might lose power, but the base imbalance of a culture that has always been aggressive, abetted by a religion that dreams of conquest, would still be present.

  20. Bob From Virginia Says:

    A few observations: Israel has been on a non-stop receiving end of hate propaganda for generations, Ameleck comes to mind, what is different here is that a NATO ally is fomenting this. Since the Turkish government is now conducting military exercises with Syria, and coordinating terrorist support activities with Hamas and Iran it will result in two conclusions, 1) time to remove Turkey from NATO 2) if Turkey had any ideas of joining the EU there are history now.

    Yes there will be the usual shock, shock that violence occurred, but since the Israelis have the whole thing on tape no one who does not want to be fooled will be. The price of eternal hate propaganda is boredom.

    I’m with Sergey, the Israelis should have used a lot more disproportionate force, all of it deadly.

    BTW if Israel wants to end this crap and achieve peace it needs to:
    1) round up 300,000 Arab men, women, and children.
    2) torture them to death on television.
    3) throw a party.
    After that she will be made head of the Arab league.
    Anyone who thinks this is not a reasonable scenario doesn’t understand the Middle East.

  21. neo-neocon Says:

    anna: excellent question. To the best of my recollection, I was initially pro-Israel. Then slowly, after the 1967 war when Israel took on territory, the liberal “narrative” towards Israel changed. It didn’t become immediately anti-Israel, to be sure, but suddenly, in the eyes of the press, liberals, and leftists, instead of Israel being David and the Arabs Goliath, tiny Israel was now turning into Goliath and the Palestinians David.

    I read enough of that over the years to start buying into the “cycle of violence” theory, without thinking too heavily about it or delving into the details. I trusted the media far more back in those days (70s through 90s). It was only after 9/11 and especially Jenin that I began (as I think I may have mentioned in my “change” series) to look back at the whole thing and realize how the media slant had distorted the picture in recent decades.

  22. Bob From Virginia Says:

    There is also something else happening. I may be premature, but the usual anti-Israel demonstrations do not seem that big.

    Do you think the MSM media will cover the fact that some Obama buddies are in this pro-terrorist media event? (rhetorical question)

  23. johnnyquark Says:

    The IDF should have allowed the flotilla to reach Gaza then prohibited all of its participants from leaving that paradise.

  24. Oblio Says:

    Anna, the short answer is, Decolonialism and its domestic counterpart, Multiculturalism, have become foundational for Leftist orthodoxy. The narrative that portrays Israelis as overbearing European imperialists (irony alert) oppressing poor indigenous people has multiple attractions for Europeans and would-be Europeans:

    1. It reinforces the story of how the Right (the imperialists and racists, according to the Left) have screwed up the world and created all this conflict, and therefore must be kept out of power.

    2. It appeals to residual anti-Semitism.

    3. It offers the Israelis as scapegoats for residual feelings of guilt about European Colonialism.

    4. It is an attractive political position in historically Socialist electoral districts that have increasing Muslim populations.

    5. The influence of Euro-Socialists in the UN depends upon staying in alignment with Third World National Socialists, of whom the Islamic states make up a critical bloc.

    In practice, it means an alliance of convenience between Leftists and Islamicists. What happens when Multiculturalism meets Feminism and Environmentalism? Multiculturalism wins.

    When did it start? For me, it became an increasingly noticeable theme after the Sabra and Shatila massacres and the grinding Lebanese War, which were deeply embarrassing for liberal supporters of Israel. Nearly 30 years of sustained propaganda since then–including the two Intifadas, the story of Mohammed al-Dura, the Jenin massacre hoax, religious disinvestment campaigns, and the recent Goldstone report on Gaza–have hammered this story line into the status of unquestionable truth as far as the Left is concerned. It would be the height of un-PC even to question it. TIME’s editorial policy is a trailing indicator of conventional Left opinion.

  25. Oblio Says:

    Must read from Wretchard.

    Gaza, Iran, Venezuela, Korea, the East China Sea, Pakistan. Everything is on fire at once. One remembers the predators on the prowl in the 1930′s and shudders.

  26. Oblio Says:

    Sorry, the link is here.

  27. Bob From Virginia Says:

    Oblio, from memory Time switched sides the second week of the Yom Kippur war. The Palestinians were made holy by liberal-lefty Time simultaneously and inexplicably with a quadrupling of the price of oil.

  28. Tatyana Says:

    Bob, they might be toned-down here, but they are well-organized and coordinated in Europe, and go full force. See the link with photos @my earlier comment.

  29. Oblio Says:

    Bob, I’ll have a look.

  30. Bob From Virginia Says:

    Tatyana, of course they are well-organized. The people who do these demonstrations literally live for nothing else, it’s their substitute for life. Plus many of the Moslems among them were raised on hate propaganda. It is all the poor dears have. What I find interesting is that compared with the usual hate demonstrations, like the pro-Saddam demos before the invasion of Iraq, these demonstrations are a joke, 10,000 in Istanbul, 3,500 in Athens. Announce a demo against boiled carrots and you could get more. Of course, the news is still young, but I think they is something else happening. Left-wing hatefests may now be considered a luxury in a world confronted with the Iranian bomb, massive economic problems and Islamofascist imperialism and terrorism, maybe. But this is not the deranged massive anti-Israel hate I remember.

    As for Stockholm, only 7,000 demonstrators in the center of holy non-involvement in which one city, Malmo, is now an Arab city. I would have thought a well-organized sub-culture should have been glued to their phones waiting for a call to go.

    These pathetic numbers may represent something but I do not know what.

    Bad weather?

  31. strcpy Says:

    The last vocal person to condemn the Palestinians was Bush. Frankly they do not even nee do throw them a bone, if they simply went out and committed genocide the left would figure out how to make said thing palatable (assuming they did the genocide quickly enough).

    Sadly, for many on the left, the idea of who is the greater victim and of others sacrificing is the idea. That is the Palestinians are the bigger victim therefore anything they do Israel should just take it and be happy.

    Of course VERY few of those leftists/liberals think that idea is peachy when *they* are the ones that are supposed to sacrifice because they suck less than someone else, some will even admit it but call it a “personal weakness that govt is there to stop”.

    As such no amount of video, no amount of *anything* Palestinians can ever do will justify Israel doing anything other than bleeding until they become the lesser. It’s not that many do not believe the video as much as the video isn’t addressing why they believe as they do. Palestinians could glass Tel Aviv with a nuclear device and there would be outrage if Israel retaliated (indeed, it took all of a month or so at most, some no more than a few minutes, to decide the US should roll over for the Jihadist and that was when it was directed at those very people – they woke up for a few minutes but didn’t like that world).

    Once Israel became a power in the region any sympathy given to them vanished. It will only come back if they bleed slowly enough and the Palestinians get their act together and the Jews can be downtrodden again. If the Palestinians ever get the power to quickly wipe Israel then it will be seen as justified and if the Jews bleed to nothing and the Palestinians stay nothing they will forget they ever existed.

    A great deal of the policies liberals to the hard left enact make sense if you take this point of view – only the downtrodden are Good, everyone else is Evil and deserve to be punished. A downtrodden person, by definition, *can not* provoke anything and a well off person *can not* do anything right (well, unless they master the ability to “feel downtrodden” yet not be – then you can have billions of dollars and do anything you want – see Al Gore who is the Richest Poor Man on the planet).

  32. Sergey Says:

    Curtis, these “peace activists” seeking martirdom with knives and iron rods are looking more and more like terrorists. Is it scenario suicide-assisted-by-policeman? If so, give them what they want. Blow the damn ships out of water. Next time useful idiots will understand that they were, indeed, used by terrororists as human shields and involuntary martyrs. The next ship named after an idiot woman who stood before moving 60-tonn bulldoser thinking it can be stopped instantly and was overrun by it is a good symbolic target to test this approach.

  33. Richard Aubrey Says:

    There is a story that, prior to the Yom Kippur War, Golda Meier knew an attack was coming. She refused to authorize a pre-emptive move, as in 1967, because Israel needed to be seen as a victim.
    Sort of the “FDR knew” meme.
    Whether or not this is true, it indicates the divergence between Israel’s view of the world and reality. There are any number of other incidents demonstrating Israel’s acceptance of casualties in order to retain the good will of the world.
    Over at Ace of Spades, there is the implication that Israel is–in this area, at least–absolutely crazy.
    And once the IDF learns there is no way in hell to earn the good will of the world, it will be a dark and bloody time in the Middle East.

  34. IgotBupkis Says:

    > In this case, President Obama (with whom I rarely agree) released a statement in which he actually said something correct….(snip)… Even the Times grudgingly admits that a video released by the Israelis…

    There’s your answer. They were unfortunately told there was video ahead of time, and so knew they’d wind up with masticated toes if they condemned Israel out of hand.

    If there’s any modicum of rationalism with regards to Israel from this admin, it’ll only be under the duress of self-preservation.

  35. Adrian Day Says:

    References to these folks by numerous news sources, including NPR, as “peace activists” struck me as an incongruous term. It reminded me of the old Woody Allen joke about the man who was bayoneted to death by a conscientious objector.

  36. Bob from Virginia Says:

    This story is going to get a lot more play than it is worth because:
    1) it is an easy story, no journalist has to risk his life in Afghanistan to report on a real war; Tel-Aviv is conveniently supplied with good restaurants, bars, communications and nude beaches,
    2) it diverts public attention from real world crises; like day to day life in the Islamic world, the coming Iranian nuclear holocaust, economic disasters, Sandra Bullock’s martial problems,
    3) boredom,
    4) it provides a subject for conversation around water coolers.
    Of far greater importance, and probably the real reason Netanyahu returned to Israel, is that Obdumbass stabbed Israel in the back with this Nuclear Non-Proliferation BS. Geez Obama must take courses on how to be stupid, no one could obtain his level of mindlessness and survive and prosper as long as has. If he were a species he’d be extinct.

  37. adin@israel Says:

    today we got first few bombs in ashkelon…after that accident gaza pretends to have a right to bomb us again, even though its clear that it was just a provocation…

  38. Tatyana Says:

    Bob, 7 thousands was a Stockholm’s newspaper estimate; the eye witness suggested it was more like 12,000 – “about the size of what’s left of Jews in Sweden.”

    And that’s not just Arabs who de-facto occupied Swedish cities- it’s public opinion of natives. If we presume that on every Tea Party participant there are 3 or 4 supporters who stayed home – same dynamic applies to anti-Israel demonstrations. Europe is firmly on muslim side – and becomes muslim itself rapidly.

    I’m glad you’re optimistic (someone has to be!), but it is more prudent to hold on to a more realistic outlook – like in this post, siting several observers, generally sympathetic to Israel.

  39. MDL Says:

    It’s funny to read these comments because none of you will note that the US is the only major country so far who is remaining cautious in condemning Israel. Many of you are so pro-Israel and anti-US [ with Obama in charge] that you can’t be bothered with also looking at ALL the facts.

  40. Don Janousek Says:

    And what, pray tell, MDL, are “all the facts?”

    As I see it, “ALL the facts” are that a bunch of loons, aided and abetted by the Turkish government, and despite repeated warnings against it, tried to break an Israeli naval blockade put in place to prevent Hamas terrorists from getting more weapons to kill more Jews. Then the loons turned down an offer of free passage to an Israeli port from which their alleged “humanitarian aid” could be transported to Gaza and violently attacked Israeli commandos, resulting in the well-deserved deaths of some of these same loons. Then a bunch of Euro-weenie leftist, Hamas-supporting countries condemned Israel for not committing national suicide.

    Meanwhile, the Messiah in the White House, taking time off from plugging that damn hole in the Gulf, has his butt in the air to see which way the wind is blowing before asking his teleprompter what to say about all this.

    Oh, and the Egyptian blockade of Gaza still stands uncondemned by the Euro-weenies.

    Have I missed any “Facts?”

  41. Bob from Virginia Says:

    Anyone remember that 2 weeks ago North Korea engaged South Korea in an overt unprovoked act of war in which a warship was sank with many killed. Whoops a real and difficult problem, better to stink to a conversation maker like Israel.

  42. Tatyana Says:

    Bob: “stink” is right!

  43. Bob from Virginia Says:

    Tatyana RE: Optimism vs. reality. Here is a story from 1974. I was traveling in South America and briefly teamed up with two young German girls. I asked for their opinion of the Middle East and found that blamed the whole thing on the US for resupplying Israel during the Yom Kippur war because without it Israel would have been wiped off the map, unpleasant problem solved. Point; Europe wants to be rid of Israel. The moral problem is that it needs to justify it’s hate, surely in part to hide it’s own self-evisceration, and because cowards always hate the brave. There is nothing Israel can can do to keep them from finding a reason, any reason, once they choose to. The “peace” flotilla should have been such an excuse yet it only produced a few thousands of the usual suspects as demonstrators in an area where hating Israel (Jews) is a traditional pastime.

    I suspect the gevalting about the damage done to Israel is not only wrong but dead wrong. There may be (note the use of the conditional “may”) too many Europeans who realize what happened in London and Madrid could happen to them. They see Islamist intrusion taking over one city after another, that whole parts of Brussels and Paris are no go zones. They see an Iranian bomb controlled by someone who wants world conquest, and Turkey, which sends thousands of guest workers to west Europe going Islamist while still having access to Nato weapons and secrets. Take all this in and do you think that the average European will consider anyone who kills Islamists enemies or friends? Self-interest does not always trump the need to hate, but I suspect in this case it is at least is influencing the number of demonstrators. I also suspect the pundits who are whining about Israel’s image are just jumping on the gevalt bandwagon. Remember the famous Jewish telegram “start worrying, details follow”.

    Another story (sorry about the long post but I want you all to know how brilliant I am). When I first arrived in Israel, the papers were all predicting some sort of catastrophe for the following week, so I braced myself for the worse. The following week not only was there no catastrophe there was not even a mention of the prediction, but there was a prediction of another disaster coming the following week. Of course that didn’t happen either, but there was another prediction for the next week of a new more horrible disaster. By that time I was only interested in the comics.

    BTW if you never got the Israeli cartoon Dry Bones here is the website:
    http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/

  44. Tatyana Says:

    Bob:
    DryBones is on my blogroll, I visit him often.
    I hear you (and readily agree re: your brilliance!), and gevalt wagon is an unfortunately, familiar thing.

    At the same time, since clearly there is no amount of playing by the most ethical rules (unprecedented, actually) on part of Israelis results in less hatred towards them – I’[d prefer them to stop apologizing and just send torpedoes silently. No explanations afterwards needed, either; only statement of fact: on such and such date our military/navy were attacked by pirates and given direct order from commanding officers, performed a successful operation. That’s it.

  45. Bob From Virginia Says:

    Tatyana, I too, would prefer such a clear cut resolution of the “peace flotilla”; I would call it the “Fish Buffet” method, with a clear declaration that this is new policy.

  46. Tatyana Says:

    Bob,
    still: we are here, and they are there…

  47. Bob from Virginia Says:

    When I wrote “Fish Buffet” I meant a buffet for the fish, just to be completely clear.

  48. anna Says:

    thanks for the info guys. to answer curtis’s question, I really just looked at wikipedia and other obvious sources for the info that I got that changed my mind. plus looking at how my mother irrationally sides with palestine 100% and tones everything else out made me go hmmmm.

    with incidents like this, it is obvious (to me) what actually happened here so it makes it harder to tone out the truth.

    The weird thing is that I am headed out to Beirut soon to visit the fam…

  49. Assistant Village Idiot Says:

    MDL – wow, devastating argument! You musta been onna debate team, huh?

  50. Poor Richard Says:

    Anna:

    Perhaps you might want to give your mother Brigitte Gabriel’s book “Because They Hate.”

    MDL:

    Tell me something, MDL. How come the “peace activists” didn’t sail to Egypt and try to break Egypt’s blockade of Gaza? Oops, sorry! Forgot we’re not allowed to mention Egypt is also blockading Gaza. Nevvvvvvver mind!

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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