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CAMERA conference: getting the word out about Israel — 31 Comments

  1. 1. The truth always wins in a way. It has solidity. It is a ‘something’. The lie is not real in the same way. It can never really last. It can, however, do enormous damage and inflict incredible pain and suffering. Jews know have known this since Moses.

    2. I think it is true that God blesses those who bless Israel, and curses those who curse it. I mean that in a metaphorical, but real sense. History basically proves it. Where are the Hittites? Babylonians? or Nazis for that matter? Where will be Hamas and Hezbollah, long term? We know the answer.

  2. I especially enjoyed Dershowitz’s defense of Israel during the recent “raid” by Israeli commandos on the ship carrying “humanitarian cargo” to Gaza. He succinctly explained why the raid was perfectly legal under established international law. Yet Dershowitz is hardly a shill for Israel, as he criticizes them politically on a fairly frequent basis>

  3. Today Israel is a different people, multi-ethnic, pluralistic of conscious, Democratic, an ally. But within this nation are those who steal and support the stealing of Palestinian lands, just as there are those Palestinians, and Jihadist, who terrorize Israel, these slivers should be condemned.

    But I cant help commenting on Mikes post, Moses …. the guy who omitted genocide from the 10 Commandments, more convenient for the slaughter of the Amalekites, and thus historical example, warrant, and justification for genocides to come.

    Stay skeptic, be critical and fair … praise and condemn with a razors edge. That’s better.

  4. Nyo – razor’s edge. And that would be why even broad distinctions are not understandable to you?

    To even drop in the settlement question, calling it “stealing Palestinian’s land,” is to at best strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel. At worst, it is refusing to even consider the other side of the story.

    Stop congratulating yourself, please.

  5. The rise of racism and anti-Semitism in the last two years is indeed alarming. I believe this is occurring because the enemies of Israel and Jews everywhere are picking up on the ambiguities coming out of Washington. Just saw that more boats with activists are on their way. We all know what this exercise is about. The old game of push the cops, until something bad goes down, and then scream bloody murder. Two more years?, I hope it goes by quickly, Iran doesn’t get it’s device built, and we get someone in office who will deal with the devil in a serious manner.

  6. I know there are a lot of Non religious folks on this site that I enjoy reading their comments, but you should know this growing anti-Israel thing is not suprising to a lot Christians (or Jews). The eventual ganging up on Israel by the nations of the world and the execution of Christians who refuse to go along with a coming dictator have long been fortold.(The dictator is a wolf in sheeps clothing type, btw, who makes a treaty with Israel, only to break it) There is also a predicted “falling away” within the Christian Church that is predicted to happen before the worst persecution breaks out. That has already begun in ernest in Europe and America.

  7. jon baker,
    and Jesus said that only the father knows the day, even Jesus said he did not know. and so, you prepare as if it is a thief in the night, not as if you can work out when to be ready. the major point made over and over is not to try to guess that time, but to live as if any time was such. (this is the part that many of the end times believers refuse to accept)

  8. neo-neocon, did you happen to notice the Students for Justice in Palestine protesting? They’re busy slapping each other on the back for a job well done and I want to know if anyone actually noticed them or if (as usual) they are celebrating invented victories.

    (I’m a BU student; I was going to volunteer, but I was sick this weekend. Horrible timing. I did see Melanie Phillips at Hillel on Friday, though, and I found her a compelling speaker. Again, the accent doesn’t hurt.)

  9. Artfldgr:

    Well put! That’s actually part of Jewish teaching too. (One of the Jewish sages used to like to say that you should offer your most heartfelt prayers to God on the day before you die. His students always asked him how one could possibly know that it was the day before your own death… and he’d answer, naturally, that you should therefore pray that way EVERY day.)

    nyomythus: sometimes you have such good things to say. And then there are times like now.

    Why on Earth would you bring up, out of left field, that Moses neglected to include “thou shalt not commit genocide” in the Ten Commandments? Has that anything to do with the topic of discussion? (For the record, authorship of the Ten Commandments is not attributed to Moses. And it does include the unambiguous “thou shalt not murder”… which to my mind is stronger than a hypothetical “thou shalt not commit genocide”. The Amalekites are a much larger topic for another day.)

    And as for stolen Palestinian land… don’t even start. (a) The land on which Palestinian Arabs lived pre-1948 hardly ever belonged to them; absentee ownership was the general rule then. (b) The land acquired by Palestinian Jews (yes, they were called that pre-1948) was purchased, often at exorbitant prices, by private individuals and by the Jewish Agency (which would become part of the new Israeli government). (c) Land has indeed been taken by the State of Israel from Palestinians (as they have called themselves since 1962 or so), and from Israeli Arabs, and from Israeli Jews, in a process called “eminent domain”. Perhaps you’ve heard of it? The people on the receiving end of it usually don’t like it much, but it’s legal, and nearly every Western nation does it without comment.

    For more information, read “Battleground” by Samuel Katz, or “From Time Immemorial” by Joan Peters.

    You illustrate precisely the fruits of the slander against Israel that Neo’s conference attempts to address. “Land stolen from the Palestinians” is a myth; the fact that it’s a pervasive myth, and a commonly-accepted one, doesn’t make it true. Not only has Israel bent over backwards to help the Palestinians in any way it can; Israel is also the only country to have done so. (Only one country has ever made a determined effort to get Palestinians out of refugee camps. Only one Middle Eastern country routinely admits gay Palestinians, who are running for their lives from their own families. Only one country sends hundreds of truckloads of food, fuel, and medical supplies to the Palestinians, daily, during wartime. By now you can probably guess which country this is.)

    The Arab-Israeli conflict is not symmetrical; it never has been. And from the very beginning, Israel has had to defend itself from the most ridiculous and outrageous accusations — accusations that are often more appropriate for the accusers than the accused.

    And the rare transgressions Israel is genuinely guilty of — which are, without exception, violations of Israeli law, and are harshly punished as such — are as nothing compared to the daily standard practices of her enemies. Israel’s extremely high standards of morality are all the more remarkable, given the rough neighborhood in which she lives.

    respectfully,
    Daniel in Brookline

    “I decline utterly to be impartial as between the fire brigade and the fire.” — Winston Churchill

  10. This 2006 column by former NYC mayor Ed Koch on George W concludes as follows:

    “In my judgment, when history evaluates George W. Bush’s position in the pantheon of presidents, he will be compared with Harry S. Truman. Bush’s fortitude in recognizing the danger of Islamic fundamentalism to the U.S. and, indeed, the Western world, and his awareness of the need to win this war of civilizations is remarkable. He deserves the applause of all Americans and in time he will receive it.”

    A clear contrast with, and reminder of what we’ve lost, with the WH current occupant.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/08/bushs_fortitude_on_the_middle.html

  11. “But within this nation are those who steal and support the stealing of Palestinian lands, just as there are those Palestinians, and Jihadist, who terrorize Israel, these slivers should be condemned.”

    A little historical revisionism goes a long way for the proverbial “useful idiot” and hypocrite, ie. at the Temple Mount, the Ma’arat HaMachpela and Hebron; Judea and Samaria renamed Palestine, much later, for the benefit of the Jew haters; Israeli “apartheid” (where they vote, and big etc.) vs. arab/muslim “judenrein”, the genocide in ethnic cleansing, and where “even broad distinctions are not understandable…”

  12. As Daniel in Brookline points out, Jews living in pre-Israel statehood were called Palestinians. In fact, my mother and I came across some of my father’s old papers a couple of years ago..he’s been gone for over two decades now, but we had never seen this particular cache of material; in it, we found a passport.

    My dad was a survivor of the camps, was liberated from Bergen Belsen in 1945. My grandparents were murdered in Auschwitz.

    Dad apparently had thought to go to the Mideast after he was liberated, but was persuaded to come to the U.S. to study, by relief organizations, as he had some university training, and later became a successful microbiologist.

    So Mom and I looked at this passport, In Hebrew, it said, “Eretz Yisroe”, State or Land of Israel.

    In English, it said “Palestine”. It was issued in ’46 or ’47, prior to the independence of Israel in May ’48. So yes, my dad could have been a Palestinian! (He came to America in ’47).

    As an aside, there is an excellent and well-researched book on the question of the conflict, with new findings of old documents only recently declassified and never available to researchers before, for anyone interested in the topic Palestine Betrayed by Ephraim Karsh.

  13. On another topic, an important one, Ace at Ace of Spades is organizing a “meatspace” GOTV effort.

    http://minx.cc/?post=306755

    The above links to his post on getting out the vote. He’s in NYC, plans to go to Boston as well, and is calling on his readers and fellow conservative bloggers to consider making calls and knocking on doors. The RNC and local Republican offices have lists of likely conservative voters, and the GOTV effort will focus on getting them to the polls (IOW, it’s not about confronting hostile lefties in their lairs).

  14. So, Nyomythus, where do you live? On land that wasn’t “stolen” from somebody else, I take it? Ah, of course! You live in Antarctica! I should have known.

  15. Mo: well put. My father-in-law has pointed out that he is as much a Palestinian, if not more, than Arafat ever was. (My father-in-law was born in Palestine in 1937; for the first eleven years of his life, his local government called him a “Palestinian Jew”. Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt, although he didn’t like advertising the fact.)

    The late Menachem Begin had a way, when discussions turned to Palestinian rights, of reaching into a desk drawer and pulling out his Palestinian passport, granted to him by the British Mandate. He would say, “This says I’m a Palestinian. Does Mr. Arafat have one of these?”

    The word “Palestinian”, like the word “ghetto”, does not mean today what it originally meant… and, in both cases, I don’t think the change was for the better.

    respectfully,
    Daniel in Brookline

  16. In fact, I should have pointed out: does anyone know the origins of the name “Palestine”?

    It’s a corrupted version of the name given to the area by the Romans, back in 135 AD I believe, in an attempt to destroy any possible connection between the Jewish people and their ancient homeland. The Romans, as a deliberate finger in the eye, named the region “Syria Palaestina” after an age-old enemy of the Jewish people, the Philistines.

    The name stuck to the area because nobody else really wanted it; it was a place to march through on your way from Africa to Europe and Asia. Even the Muslims didn’t care much for the place; after building some admittedly magnificent mosques, the place was left alone, with no one bothering even to change the name. Ditto for the Byzantines, the Crusaders, the Ottoman Turks, and finally the British. Only one group of people ever cared enough about the place to rebuild it and make a home out of it (yes, and give it its old name back); you know who that was.

    If you’re interested in the condition of Palestine before Jewish immigration really got started there (circa 1880 or so), read what Mark Twain had to say about the place in “Innocents Abroad”. It makes for depressing reading, even from Twain; the place was a desolate wasteland. There’s a reason why the Second Aliyah, the wave of Jewish immigration from Russia after the (failed) coup attempt in 1907 — the ones who did the initial backbreaking work of rebuilding the land — are sometimes called “Aliyat ha-mitabdim” (the aliyah of suicides); it was pretty grim then.

    Put briefly: nobody cared about Palestine until Jews rebuilt it into a land worth living in. Their success was great enough that it’s not surprising to see others wanting to share the results, if not the credit. (Jews had been rebuilding the land and making a modern state of it since 1880, as I said; the so-called Palestinian national movement, of people wanting a state of their own, began in 1962 with the formation of the PLO.)

    respectfully,
    Daniel in Brookline

  17. “But within this nation are those who steal and support the stealing of Palestinian lands,”

    It is a definitional impossibility for Jews to be stealing Palestinian lands.

    Why? Because the Jews are the only true Palestinians. They are the indigenous people of Palestine.

    As for the ones falsely claiming that name, they are Arabs. The Arabs are indigenous to the Arabian Peninsula. The only way Jews could be stealing land from them is if the Jews constructed settlements in the Arabian Peninsula.

    Outside of the Arabian Peninsula, the Arabs themselves are beneficiaries of a land-grab. However, I’m not one to stoop to Helen Thomas’ level, so I don’t hold a grudge and I’m not going to call on all Arabs from Morocco to Iraq to go back home to Arabia. But, it does mean the Arabs have absolutely no cause to complain about dispossession in Palestine. Palestine is not and has never been theirs, and is and has always been the Jews’.

    I am a Palestinian. Stop telling me my land isn’t mine. “The Palestinians among us” – Immanuel Kant, referring to the Jews in one of his writings.

  18. Palestine may stretch back further, to Philistine. The etymology is disputed, but at minimum, the Philistines were one of the tribes that occupied the area.

    I will add to Daniel and Mo’s comments the information that the absentee landlords were largely from Turkey and Jordan. The myth of generalised prosperity of the (current) Palestinians in the first half of the 20th C, though widely taught and widely believed, it not supported by evidence.

    There are films by the British – news reports mostly – from those times. Try and get them shown in Palestine now. Or Britain either, for that matter.

  19. Genocide as an ultimate measure of self-defence IS justified in my book. But only with unambiguos sanction from Almighty, and only when all other measures fail. Was nuking of Hiroshima an act of genocide? Yes. Was it justified? Yes.

  20. These were Amalekites who attempted genocide first, and for this crime they deserved a symmetrical response.

  21. Sergey,

    Unambigous sanction from Almighty is easy to get, since every man can easily make up their own Almighty to justify whatever he likes. The days of prophecy are over. Nobody hears the voice of the Almighty any more. But lots of people think they do.

    I therefor put it to you that your reasoning is absolute bollux.

    And yes, Hiroshima was an act of genocide. No, genocide is never justified.

    Hiroshima was necessary, not justified.

    There is no justification ever to take another’s life. It is too often necessary but never justified.

  22. Andrew Brehm: Genocide? Hardly. There was no attempt to eliminate the Japanese because they were Japanese. It was done to end the war. You are using the word way too loosely, although it is not unusual for it to be used that way. I first heard the term used in that manner back in college, when a friend said that the US was committing genocide in Vietnam. I argued about it with her then, and I would argue the same way now.

  23. I did some lookup about the origins of the “Palestinians”. They arrived in and settled down in what is now Gaza. Around 800-ish or so CE. They were referred to as the sea-faring peoples. A (very) few inscriptions they left from that era seem to be of Mycenean Greek language. Or Cretan. Very likely they no longer exist as a separate ethnicity after the many waves of conquering and assimilating populations such as the Hittites, Assyrians, Arab Moslems, and Ottoman Moslems. The Romans did indeed resurrect this label to rename Sudea and Sumeria as some kind of insult to the Jews after the destruction of the 2nd Temple.
    Please correct any errors I may have made.

  24. Pingback:The Ozi Zion Blog » Blog Archive » CAMERA conference on the global campaign to delegitimize Israel”

  25. pat laforce:

    I believe you may be conflating two histories here. I’m not aware of “Palestinians” settling in Gaza in 800 CE, but I wouldn’t dispute it. (That was about the right time for Arab settlement in the area, after the wave of conquest under Muhammad and his successors in the mid-seventh century.)

    However, I doubt very much that these were “sea-faring peoples”, or that they spoke Greek. The Philistines were indeed sea-faring, and were called that; and as such I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they had strong connections to Greece etc. But that was a different era entirely. (King David’s reign, when the Philistines were at their height — pun intended — is usually dated to approximately 1000 BCE.)

    It is possible that some remnants of the earlier cultures were still hanging on in Gaza (originally a Philistine area) at the time of the Arab conquest; they would not have survived that conquest intact.

    No, the people who today call themselves Palestinians have a relatively uncomplicated ancestry; they are Arabs, descended from the nomadic tribes of Arabia. They have no blood connection to the Philistines of old, just as there is no real connection anymore between the ancient Egyptian civilization and Egypt’s inhabitants today (who are likewise Arabs).

    Of course, the Palestinians like to turn that on its head by claiming that there is no connection between modern-day Jews and biblical Jews. To that I have a very simple answer. My father-in-law and brother-in-law are Cohens (in Hebrew, “kohanim”), entitled to be called first to the Torah at any synagogue they attend. This is an honorific that is passed from father to son, and only from father to son; there is no other way to achieve that status.

    In other words, my father-in-law is a direct descendant, through males only, of the Temple priests in the time of King David — and thus a direct descendant of Aaron, the brother of Moses.

    So far as I know, the Palestinians have no remotely equivalent claim that they can make.

    respectfully,
    Daniel in Brookline

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