Obama: Comeback Kid II?
Bill Clinton did it—at a low political ebb after a Congressional defeat, he returned to the center and won re-election. Charles Krauthammer believes that President Obama has just received concessions via the tax bill that will allow him to do the same in short order. It’s worth reading the whole thing to get a flavor of what Krauthammer is saying.
Is he correct? Dunno. But if he is, it would mark a new low in stupidity and amnesia on the part of the American people. It’s been obvious to anyone paying a moment of attention to the last two years that Obama had no interest in compromise or moving to the middle until he was dragged there, kicking and screaming, by an angry electorate. Even now, he can’t resist bad-mouthing the other side even as he reluctantly concedes to them. Does anyone believe that, once re-elected in 2012, he would not move as far to the left as Congress would let him?
Besides, unemployment is still down and may remain so, the economy is still stalled and may remain so, our foreign affairs are still chaotic and our reputation for strength in the gutter, Obamacare is still unpopular, and the deficit was still sky-high when last I looked. What’s more, despite what Krauthammer writes about liberals being angry at Obama but having no place else to go in 2012, they really don’t have to go anywhere to desert him; they can just stay home.
Bill Clinton was a different sort of politician with a different sort of history. Like him or not, he came across as personally warm, and he moved people to believe he understood (and felt!) their pain. Obama is quite the opposite. Clinton also had a history as governor of Arkansas of operating from the center and then campaigning from the center. His move to the left was more the aberration, and so his move back to the center, although strategic, was also seen as believable and even sincere. Obama is quite the opposite.
The American people just might decide to say to Obama, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me…” Obama has betrayed their trust, and trust once lost is hard to recapture and must be slowly rebuilt with demonstration after demonstration of lessons learned. Nothing Obama has done has constituted even the first step in that process; he’s merely being pragmatic for the moment—and I like to think that enough voters have been paying attention that they’re aware of it.
Perhaps not, though. Perhaps Krauthammer is correct to operate as though the old saying “no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people” is correct. If so, too many of us are fools.
There’s a giant anchor hanging around his neck called health care reform. It’s HIS anchor and the voters hate it and the Republicans will be reminding them about it constantly till the next election. An well they should.
Obama’s pivot to the middle is doomed. His policies are much more vivid and clear to the voters and he is not nearly deft enough a pol to wash them away. And don’t forget that we have a blogsphere today that didn’t exist for Clinton.
There is a sucker born every minute.
Pt Barnum / Bernie Maddoff
Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies
Fleetwood Mac
For every credibility gap there is a gullibility gap.
Richard Cobden
Could people be trained to be less gullible? Or are you as stuck with gullibility as you are with skin colour?
Keith Henson
A little credulity helps one on through life very smoothly. ~ Elizabeth Gaskell
# Credulity is the man’s weakness, but the child’s strength. ~ Charles Lamb
Fame is proof that the people are gullible. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Hatred, as well as love, renders its votaries credulous. ~ Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Man is a credulous animal, and must believe something; in the absence of good grounds for belief, he will be satisfied with bad ones. ~ Bertrand Russell
Our credulity is greatest concerning the things we know least about. ~ Eric Hoffer
Quackery has no friend like gullibility
Some people who cast their bread upon the waters expect it to return as French toast
The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. ~ George Bernard Shaw
The most positive men are the most credulous. ~ Jonathan Swift
There’s a gullible side to the American people. They can be easily misled. Religion is the best device used to mislead them. ~ Michael Moore
[of course he is immune to the lack of free will others have… Everyone thinks everyone else has less free will http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-free.html%5D
We are inclined to believe those whom we don’t not know because they have never deceived us. ~ Samuel Johnson
Pray you are right and not Krauthammer. Considering 47% voted against the Messiah when no one had an inkling of just how bad he would be (I foresaw he would be the worse president in US history and he turned worse than I thought possible) it makes sense that an adequate number of the 53% who did vote for him will have noticed something amiss with their choice.
The cliche that it is the economy stupid rings hollow when confronted with Obama’s efforts to undermine democracy in Latin America, the Middle east and the US through Obamacare, his child like whining, his projection of weakness (remember his multiple deadlines to Iran to stop work on the bomb). Not everyone can remember everyone of Obama’s insults to the US and democracy, but even the most obtuse should be able to remember enough to not want him re-elected.
Of course, the Republicans could run Palin…..
I have yet to see any sign Obama can do anything right. But that said, he has always polled way too high.
Neo:
This whole post is predicated on the notion that the recent election has had any effect whatsoever on Obama’s behavior.
Since, the for the most part from day one he has governed like a centrist and corporatist republican and has never stood for a single progressive or leftwing policy of any type, I totally disagree with you. The Tea Partiers are real, but they *mostly* can only serve to somewhat reform the Republican party and the jury is still out on that. All this most recent electoral spasm has done is given Obama more of an excuse to act the way he has always acted since being elected.
In any case, the Progressives will be sitting this one out in 2012, unless the Democrats primary another candidate.
I’m afraid it’s just not good enough any more to only have a choice between Republican and Republican-lite as you will be discovering to your own dismay over the very next few years.
Clinton had a relatively modest recession (that was ending), no significant foreign crisis (Bosnia? please), and had run on a faux centrist platform. It was easy for him to ditch HillaryCare. Remember he won because Ross Perot took a big chunk of the vote.
Obama took a financial panic and made it much worse. In addition the Dems took care of their friends in public and started the Tea Party. Mismanagement of foreign policy will continue to haunt Obama.
Nope he’s Carter II.
Neo: Mencken might have thought we were boorish, but he didn’t think we were dumb.
“Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.” H. L. Mencken.
The game has changed because of who the American people are.
The left is composed of the identity groups cultivated since the 60’s. These people do not change their vote because they believe Republicans/conservatives are evil.
This is the siren call that Obama will use: We will take care of you. Besides demonizing his opponents, its the only thing he’s got.
So the question is, “Given the standard block of identity votes Obama can be assured of, are there enough voters who will opt for the government to solve their problems and allay their fears?
That’s the real questions and if the personality on top of that question makes it more attractive, then you get the 1930’s or 2009 and 2010. But Obama has ruined his image. He’s not getting it back, and yet, if the underlying question is still strong enough– that people will abdicate their personal responsibility for security–then it might not matter.
Brad,
You make me smile.
Let’s hope you are right. 🙂
Cap’n Rusty: that’s interesting. When I wrote it I (very quickly) looked it up and there were a ton of quotes using “intelligence” instead of “taste,” just as I had. Here’s one, for example.
Perhaps it is true that no one ever went broke underestimating either the taste or the intelligence of the American public.
We have to factor local situations into this equation. How will Brown’s being hit over the head by reality affect California turnout. If the teachers’ and public workers’ unions are turned off, what will that do to Dem fundraising and voter turnout? If Christie is successful and Mitch Daniel’s record becomes known, will squishy Dems be more willing to want fiscal responsibility?
It will also depend on Reps getting their act together behind a prioritized agenda and stopping the internal battle for being a “true” conservative. Another factor will be foreign affairs. Who will replace Gates? What will Iran do? Will their be an energy price rise, and will the 7-year ban on drilling be a super negative for BO?
Obama has made a lot of his supporters insecure. They don’t trust him. Do you really believe Wall Street will be as generous in 2 years? Will blacks be as motivated to get out the vote for a second term, especially if ACORN can’t finance the efforts?
There are just too many unknowns now, but Obama has the wonderful opportunity to insult us all for 2 more years. A slight tilt in the media could make people more aware that The Won is not really into us. Even if he is dragged more to the middle, people may just become sick of him.
I like Charles Krauthammer — respect him immensely. His words scare the heck out of me.
But fact is, we have a very fickle public — especially voting public much of which has very short memory, is not nearly as concerned as most of us here on this site are at edifying ourselves re: issues at hand and how they are handled, political ramifications, and so forth.
(Ex: Most of the public will ultimately believe that OBAMA ended war in Iraq with the surge and then pulling us out……)
Attention span of body politic in US is that of a small child: what did you do for me most recently???
That is what they remember…….
We will have to watch and see if the Republicans just made a huge blunder by cutting deal w/ Obama now resulting in huge spending, instead of waiting for Jan. Congress where they will hold significantly more power.
Not an auspicious start…..
Since, the for the most part from day one he has governed like a centrist and corporatist republican and has never stood for a single progressive or leftwing policy of any type
I want to move to Brad’s planet. It sounds very nice.
I’m torn on this one.
On one hand, it’s hard to believe anyone could be stupid enough to be taken in by Obama again, but then again it was hard to believe anyone would be stupid enough to be taken in the first time.
Also, I despair when I consider that most Americans probably think that the Republicans were the party of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, and the KKK. The electorate’s capacity for stupidity and ignorance has yet to be plumbed.
On the other hand, Obama is probably going to have trouble tacking to the center because a) he’s not too bright (certainly no Clinton), he’s politically inept (again, certainly no Clinton), and he’s emotionally brittle, whereas the ability to tack places a premium on flexibility and resilience.
On balance, I suspect the latter argument outweighs the former.
A plausible scenario, not a prediction:
Obama sweeps to victory by lambasting House Republicans for their policies that produced the recovery which is getting him reelected.
Occam’s Beard writes: “On one hand, it’s hard to believe anyone could be stupid enough to be taken in by Obama again, but then again it was hard to believe anyone would be stupid enough to be taken in the first time.”
Not so hard when one realizes that, 13% of the American public still thinks congress is doing a good job. I’d like to find these people; I hav a bridge to sell and resell and resell . . . !
gs,
He’ll probably add a few words about Bush in his lambast, and he’ll did up another Lily Ledbetter to show how terrible this country is.
Robin of Berkeley thinks hardcore progressives may not vote for Obama and as a group share with conservatives a non-gullible trait.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/12/common_ground_with_progressive.html
Clinton was toast. He was a laughingstock on both sides of the aisle in DC. Then the GOP took the house — unthinkable. The MSM was so shocked by the revolution they rallied around Bubba in ways we’d never seen before.
Obama’s problem is that the public isn’t going to be as easy to fool by the MSM’s blatant propaganda as it was in 1995. The world of news and commentary and the public’s understanding thereof has changed dramatically.
Here are Obama’s advantages:
1. by 2012 the economy will be further along in recovery with economic growth that year and in 2011. The growth does not have to be great. I believe that every incumbent running again except Ford won when there was economic growth.
2. Americans have short memories and can be very forgiving. If Obama starts sounding like a centrist, his old voters may come back.
Some things that can work against Obama are:
1. A terrorist attack on American soil would work against him since national security is a weak point for him and Democrats.
2. Obamacare doesn’t get struck down by the courts and it starts to take affect. The features in this plan are rediculous but they won’t become obvious until 2012 and later. Believe it or not, if Congress repeals and replaces Obamacare with a more acceptable plan, it could work in Obama’s favor.
3. The Republicans can run a minority candidate like Bobby Jindhal or Marco Rubio. This will do away with the idea that the Republicans are the white mans party.
Occam:
I’m sure you can bedazzle me with the amount of left wing legislation that Obama has passed into law. Heck, I’ll even be nice and let you try to bedazzle me with the amount of left wing legislation that on his orders was merely put into bill form, even if it was not passed. Heck, still more – even if the bill was killed in committee, and all Obama ever did was say he supported it.
Surely you will take me up on my challenge?
brad says: “Since, the for the most part from day one he has governed like a centrist and corporatist republican and has never stood for a single progressive or leftwing policy of any type, I totally disagree with you.”
Further evidence the leftward media truly does spin liberal or leftist policies as “centrist” – and people believe it.
On the other hand you could argue this is further evidence “progressives” do not understand how radical their own views are…..
Jimbo:
Most economists on both the left and right don’t seem to share your confidence in a recovery. Indeed, what I often hear is an argument over whether our economy will more resemble Japan’s the past 20 years or whether we will sink down into an “official” depression.
I don’t think you have to worry about the economy rescuing Obama, and I don’t think these “tax cuts” will have any stimulative affect whatsoever.
jon baker:
I’ll throw you the same challenge I threw Occam.
I fully expect to find that what you think is left wing is stuff that was popular American politics in the 1930’s through the 1950’s.
American politics has skewed so far to the right on most issues over the past 20 years (particularly economics and foreign policy) I think it’s skewed your political compasses all to Hades.
Brad, if you think a National Health care law that dictates how private health insurance companies and private persons interact on a contractural basis is not leftist then I do not know how to explain it to you. It is certainly not conservative in the American sense in which the Federal government had a limited role in the daily affairs of the average American. Maybe it is not “progressive” because Progressives only feel a full fledged Euro or even soviet style system is “progressive”.
“I am for a government rigorously frugal and simple. Were we directed from Washington when to sow, when to reap, we should soon want bread.”
Thomas Jefferson
“Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers (adminstrators) too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery.”
Thomas Jefferson
We limited government Conservatives are not the ideological newcomers here.
The key for a Republican victory in 2012 is whether or not they can field a good candidate, nothing more or less. If you look back at earlier elections – well, the candidate who runs a powerful campaign and actually connects with the electrorate wins. Now, Obama has certainly burned a lot of bridges and is increasingly looking like a damn fool, and an arrogant one beside. But he’s also incumbent. The Republicans must actually find a good cadidate who works. No more Doles or McCains.
Surely you will take me up on my challenge?
HCR or the extralegal takeover of GM by the UAW.
Take your pick. Lenin would be proud of either one.
American politics has skewed so far to the right on most issues over the past 20 years (particularly economics and foreign policy) I think it’s skewed your political compasses all to Hades.
Rubbish.
Every other nation on earth would give a lot to have the American economy, at least pre-Soetoro. Re foreign policy, I stand with that great thinker, Rush Limbaugh:
Brad, I follow several economists who have excellent track records for forecasting. Mark Perry of carpediem.com has an excellent analysis of how the stats line up. Also you should look up Kudlow on Fox and his own site. He is a Republican conservative and he is very positive on the economic cycle. All recessions end and this one will too. In fact, we have had growth (albeit very slow growth) since the end of 2009. Recoveries take about two years to get noticed by all. I am the CFO of manufacturer of auto parts. A year ago we were laying off, now we are hiring and we will have to run through the Christmas holidays – something we wouldn’t dream of a few months ago. We are expanding and spending millions on new equipment. The unemployment rate is always the last statistic to improve but it will start improving next year and look better in 2012. Keep in mind, the recovery does not have to be great to make Obama look good. This recovery is very sluggish and the long term prospects (after 2012) do not look good. But the short term looks great and unfortunately, American voters only care about now, not the long run. Get ready for the MSM to start singing happy tunes by this Spring. Obama will be made to look like a hero in 2012. This is why I keep telling my Republican brothers to push for Jindhal or Rubio (or even both as running mates). That mormon white guy form Mass or that nice homemaker lady from Alaska won’t cut it running against Obama. Keep in mind, in two years (which is an eternity in politics) Obama will look more conservative and most will forget the Obamacare leftist type fiascos of a year ago. Remember, Clinton pulled if off in 1996 and Obama is a quick learner. I have heard Obama speak to a small audience before he ran for President. Nobody can work the room like this guy. He’s all image but in 2012 he’ll be running as the incumbent in a growing economy with undertones that imply that America’s first Black president should be a two-term president. BTW, did you notice how “Reaganesque” he looked by signing an extension of the evil Bush tax cuts? He is starting his metamorphosis already. My rich Republican stockholders of my company just started loving the guy this week. Don’t underestimate Obama.
The summer of recovery!
When it wasn’t, that is when Obama lost 2012. How stupid to tie yourself to a slogan that could backfire and did backfire. People infuriated by need and unfulfilled promises will not soon forget and Obama is being labeled as a huckster and cheat. Throw the healthcare scam in the mix along with the waivers and its now recognized costs, and the big bad wolf in Little Red Riding Hood could win election against Obama.
Jimbo Says:
December 17th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
I’m not so sure about that. A lot of people will naturally tend to rally around a leader in times of crisis, and if the attack is bad enough, it could give him the opportunity to ram through all sorts of emergency measures. This is actually a scenario I’ve been concerned about.
Brad Says:
December 17th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
The Roosevelt Administration and the New Deal in the 1930s were extremely left wing. That carried over into the 1940s with national mobilization, propaganda posters everywhere, and the whole nine yards. All left wing collectivism. Our economic prosperity in the 1950s wasn’t due to government policies or confiscatory tax rates. It happened because the industrial base of every other major country in the world had been blown to smithereens in World War II. The U.S. was literally the only game in town.
What planet are you living on? Every time conservatives compromise with liberals, the country ratchets further to the left, towards bigger, more all-encompassing government. It never moves in the other direction, towards limited Constitutional government. This includes both Bush presidencies.
You wouldn’t know “right” if it ran up and bit you on the ass.
Occams:
HCR or the extralegal takeover of GM by the UAW.
Take your pick. Lenin would be proud of either one.
So let’s see:
A healthcare reform act to address a looming crisis (which WILL result in a government takeover mark my words) with its main ideas written by a Republican in the mid -90’s is something that would make Lenin proud. I hope you are consistent enough to say the same for social security and medicaid.
As for your second point, I’m not sure if you are upset about the government bailing out a private company -which it did in 1980’s with Chrysler- or if you are upset because you think bankruptcy law was violated. In the second case, I would hope you are equally as upset with some of the end-arounds on due process that the large banks are trying to get passed through congress when it comes to foreclosures.
Rush Limbaugh can shut his big, fat, trap:
http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.asp
I read his “The Way Things Aught To Be” in the early 90’s and actually agreed with about 30 or 40 percent of it. And I’ve appropriated some of his language as I used to listen to his Radio show in the late 80’s and watched his TV show. But there’s nothing I hate worse than hypocrites, esp. militaristic ones.
rickl:
You are a true nut if you believe that corporatism and america acting as the world’s policeman and a never ending, never declared, ill-defined “war on terror” are left wing policies.
It’s true that most of our SOCIAL policies have become more authoritarian and more left-wing in some ways, more right-wing in the other.
As far as it goes, I hope you are a voter for the Libertarian party. The Republican party is not the party of limited government. Bush Jr. proved that, if you hadn’t figured it out by the end of the first Gulf war. Neither of the two main parties believe in limited government in the way you claim to. They just differ on SOME issues (almost exactly the same on many others) as to which type of policy to make more extreme.
The TSA , DHS, Patriot Act 2: these are not things done by advocates of limited government.
But there’s nothing I hate worse than hypocrites, esp. militaristic ones.
Attention Brad: those were John F. Kennedy quotes. So much for the sharp rightward tilt in the last 20 years, eh?
I almost feel bad. Outsmarting leftists is like playing chess with a chimpanzee.
wow…
only two ways it can go…
1) bad for obama since soros already told everyone its ok to oppose him, since then its been open season and increasing, and so someone else will have to step forward then.
2) incident ranging from dirty bomb to emp, and no election so, the whole question is off the table.. even riots by left nuts like the wing nut who brought a gun to school, can make it all moot
Jimbo:
I appreciate your respectful and intelligent reply. However, as you know, one company proves nothing. There are mainstream economists who believe a recovery is just around the corner -heck, they were saying so over a year ago, as it was also pointed out that unemployment lags in recoveries and yadda yadda. I don’t blame you for buying what, until very recently, was the “conventional wisdom”, but I must ask you something: arguably Obama’s policy of saving GM and Chrysler was what enabled many of the smaller auto parts manufacturers to survive rather than go out of business or be gobbled up by larger companies. How is it you fail to credit public money for your situation, and just how much do you support Obama when it comes to the economy?
Occam:
Are you an idiot?
I don’t worship Kennedy. And he could shut his trap too. Military service proves nothing about a person.
P.S. I really, really hate Ted Kennedy for the immigration changes he pushed through in the 1960’s.
Kind of wrecks your little thesis that I’m some kind of conventional leftist, now doesn’t it?
As I said : A pox on both the Republicans and the Democrats.
Occam:
And before you say anything to try to make yourself feel superior:
I know that Ted Kennedy and John Kennedy were brothers. My larger points were that I don’t worship the Kennedys and while I could talk to you about the Bay of Pigs or the moon program, I’m hardly and RFK groupie who knows his speeches by heart or thinks “Camelot” was such a great time in America. I wasn’t even born then.
So Brad (good to see you mixing it up again, by the way), here’s my innocent question to you:
What would a left-wing president’s policies look like in your opinion? Which policies qualify and why?
Show your work.
(And we’ve been over this before, but the fact that some Republicans once proposed a leftist health care plan doesn’t mean it’s not leftist when proposed by actual leftists – likewise, a leftist continuing a neo-con foreign policy doesn’t make the latter leftist. I.e., just say what the principle or goal of a leftist policy is and give examples – regardless of which party proposed it).
Brad Says:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
I actually don’t find a whole lot to disagree with there.
“Corporatism” is another word for “fascism”, which is actually a leftist philosophy and is a variant of socialism. It seems to be increasingly the dominant political/economic philosophy, worldwide.
As a matter of fact, I used to be a member of the Libertarian Party, but they lost me after 9/11. I agree with you that the “war on terror” stuff is nonsense. “Terror” is an emotion, not an enemy.
We need to declare war against Islam. Not “radical” Islam, or “fundamentalist” Islam. I mean ISLAM itself. It is fundamentally incompatible with Western Civilization, and this planet isn’t big enough for both of us. There is no possibility of peaceful coexistence.
Brad:
Probably the last “right wing” President we had was Coolidge. Reagan said that he admired Coolidge, too.
It’s been mostly downhill since then. Your assertion that America has “skewed to the right” in the last 20 years is ridiculous.
kolnai:
A true “left wing” President?
Before I start a caveat – “left” and “right” wing terminology is a bit simplistic and is often better served by talking about “authoritarian” vs “non-authoritarian” preferences in many multi-axis political scales. But, as an exercise:
A left wing President would immediately work to nationalize the big banks and to re-regulate Wall Street.
He or she would probably try to end US participation in things such as NAFTA (same as many paleo-cons and other economic populists including myself), or the WTO. Would probably push for an idea of mine: an international enforceable standard on working conditions.
Tax policy? Well, we had high rates in the past, but next to no-one actually paid them. I suspect a leftwing President would push for progressive tax rates “with teeth” , and would double or triple, or even quadruple taxes on those who are so rich they live off investment income. Would probably work to close overseas tax shelters. Everyone who earned more than say 30 k a year would probably see a tax increase and these increases would be funneled into public works projects, expanded social programs of one sort or another or the governments “general fund”.
Health care? Would push for “single payer” all the way, baby , and if he or she ended up “settling” for a public option or expansion of medicaid he or she wouldn’t be happy about it.
A true left wing President would use the language of class warfare. They can’t help themselves, really.
Would probably push for ratification of the ERA, and other leftwing amendments. Certainly wouldn’t try to put “moderates” on the SCOTUS.
Foreign policy?
We’d depend more on what MOVEON , women’s groups, and NGO’s thought our foreign policy should be rather than the neo-cons.
And that’s just a start.
Four years ago right now, how many people thought that somebody actually named Barack Hussein Obama would be the 44th president of the United States?
Two years ago right now, how many people thought that the 112th Congress would feature the largest shift to Republican control of the House since before WWII?
Get my drift? 🙂
ELC:
I look forward to 2012 when the Retardicans take control of the Senate and probably the Presidency.
I look forward to them getting nothing done – certainly not anything done that could be called “limiting government” – as they did when they had control of everything in the early part of the last decade.
I then look forward to the usual apologists as the Republican party continues to split and the demoralized Democrats take a second look at their mostly neglected “progressive” wing.
And as I predict the parties either fracture or harden to the more radical part of their bases, so I do see the end of the current political polity.
Brad, nice try at a recovery.
Not a convincing try, but a good one nonetheless.
Bottom line: you can’t tell the difference between a conservative commentator today and a liberal icon of 50 years ago. No need to memorize speeches; grownups can analyze the content of a comment. Recall is not involved.
So much for your thesis of the right-wing lurch of American politics.
Occam’s Beard:
Just because someone is a “liberal icon” doesn’t mean that all their thoughts and public expressions are liberal, unless you are making the silly argument that democrats never share Republican opinions about anything or vice-versa. I was perhaps giving you more credit as a commenter than you perhaps deserve, it seems to me you are little more than a purveyor of cheap rhetorical and intellectual tricks.
Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back, buddy.
Perhaps the public still cannot accept that they elected an anti-democratic proto-fascist as President. Maybe it would be best if he were re-elected, the pain he will cause may belatedly open a few eyes. Nonetheless the thought is sickening.
Some humor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NKHJ64qRR8
Heading off to bed late, but here’s something that might make some *not all* of you who are crying in your beer that Assange made bail a bit happier:
http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2010/12/uber-progressive-besieged-for-daring-to.html
Listen to the Bill Ayers comments linked here:
http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2010/12/17/you-went-full-ayers-man-never-go-full-ayers/
Could these flashes from BO’s past play a role in the next election? After all, Obama supported Ayers, Wright, and ACORN for years. It does bring his sincerity into question. Will people ever start to Blame Barry?
Brads thesis doesnt hold water…
not only that but there is no ‘right’ but there IS a ‘left’.
right is “not left”, which really isn’t the same thing
you cant lurch to the right, you can only pull back from totalitarianism.
so unless overall control has become markedly less than in the 60s and before, there aint been any real moves away from totalitarianism of one kind or another. (and funny the majority form is fascism. the socialist organization that replaces ownership with control… and as ford said, i want to own nothing and control everything (as ownership is not the key))
ownership is just a justification for control
the fascists say why bother with that, just control it
Brad has no idea how close we are paralleling weimar germany. VERY close…
the state is now playing race maker. nih offers 95k if you put a woman or minority on your reserch team over base grant amount. 20 offices of women and minorities are being made in finance, and SBA has a program for them. Its clear that there is a race under target. which funny funny is the same color as Jewish people. not to mention the recent left protesting Israel. presidents actions regarding Israel. etc. SAME old thing. how same? they use the same disparate impact arguments the Germans used to justify hatred of their scapegoats.
heck, we are now pushing father Coughlins social justice and using religion to get it to be ok.
Brad has a belief masquerading as a hypothesis, that he asserts is empirical.
but as Occam notes, and is easy to tell, its a belief, and one not based on reality.
the floaters that come by and try to change the beliefs makes me want to call them leftist (whether they realize it or not) missionaries…
Brad, The best leading indicator (virtually all economists agree on this) is the stock market. The market has been increasing for the past two years. Our customers include more than automotive OEMs. We also service oil/gas drilling and other industries and they are all taking off. Heck, we are even exporting parts to the Chinese, and they hate having to import. People who have been out of work for a year are getting high paying jobs. Foreigners are buying condos in Miami. All the signs are there, including the doom and gloom kvetching by a horde of pessimists. Remember, all recoveries and their accompanying bull markets climb a wall of worry. I know you think it’s different this time but it isn’t. Remember, Obama doesn’t have to see unemployment go down too much to get reelected, just a couple of points. I hate to appear cynical but politically, Americans have really short memories. I am overjoyed at the results of this last election. It is largely the result of several million who sat out the election in 2008 finally getting angry enough to do something and a few million who voted for Obama in 08 who became dissillusioned and stayed home. This is all it takes to cause a major swing. Many of my Tea Party friends are small business owners and professionals who were too busy to vote for much of their lives and then had a sudden political awakening and became voters. Where were they when Clinton was getting elected? I hope the “sleeping giant” is still awake in two years!
rickl, You may be right about a terrorist attack on the US rallying people to support Obama. But the first attack in 2001 was unexpected. The next attack will most likely involve some big SNAFUs by the State Dept and DHS along the lines like the Underwear Bomber. Right now the TSA looks pretty stupid and their faulty approach is bound to fail. If terrorists evade our ultra politically correct defenses to inflict another mass murder, Americans might just demand the heads of their Commander-in-chief and all his lieutenants. Obama campaigned partly on the idea that his magical approach to peace would somehow pacify the terrorists. Remember how he was going to shut down Guantanamo, bring the troops home, etc? The last thing Al Queda wants is for Obama to be replaced by a Republican with strong leadership skills and a conservative bent in 2012.
Obama will be re-elected, he’ll make sure of that.
He’ll now have a Republican congress to blame for anything that goes wrong, a very clever move on the part of the Dems.
A terrorist attack (especially a very large one, 9/11+) will work in his favour, he can easily use it to stamp out dissent, steamroller a load of legislation through congress (or just ruling by decree) to remove completely any radiostation, blog, website, or other publication that’s in the least critical of his agenda.
before capitalism all property and people were owned by a few royal types who colluded across countries against the populace, and metered out mans existence.
then capitalism dethroned them, oppressed them, and turned them into administrators and clerks for a salary.
socialism is appealing to them as it returns back the natural order of man under the thumb of a royal class who are colluding across country boundaries against the whole of the populations before them. as it was before, a return to being owned, a return to oligarchy, and as huxley says, a boot on the face forever (since dynasties last by stagnating progress and maintaining a condition – as greenies and others are working hard to do).
the oppressed kings and queens and such are attacking their oppressors the free capitalist people, and are going to enslave them permanently and basically either own everything or control everything, and collude collectively among themselves to maintain that enough capital to pool to be effective will not be allowed to fall into lumpen proletariat hands again…
So the new leftist excuse is that Obama is not a failure of leftist liberalism because he’s basically Barry Goldwater incarnate? Lolllllllll!
Political prognostication: Where any plausible statement may come true.
Still, I can’t resist.
Obama’s 2008 election was a happy “coincidence” and still it was no blowout. This time Virginia, North Carolina, and Indiana won’t tally for Obama. Florida? New Jersey? Pennsylvania?
The swath of new Republican governors will help. (Think Ohio)
And even though Carville may claim the demographics favor Obama they don’t because the young, Hispanic, and female voters are drifting, ever so slowly but drifting, Republican.
Brad, your assertion that American politics had taken a rightward lurch in the last 20 years was pure rubbish, and the quotes prove it beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt: you happily accepted the quotes of a Democratic President from half a century ago as those of what most Democrats today consider to be a right-wing ranting nut. You should have quit while you were behind, but here’s your coup de grace:
Can you, in your wildest dreams, imagine “Barry” uttering any of the JFK quotes above?
It’s a rhetorical question, obviously.
My Christmas wish for Obama: May he follow the cycle from the accuser to the condemned:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/17/AR2010121705417.html
The Kraut, by the way, seems to have an opinion on Obama that verges on worship. Fearful worship, but worship nonetheless.
rickl – anyone with a grasp of history (not many) would agree with you about the nature of our real enemy.
Art : “you cant lurch to the right, you can only pull back from totalitarianism.” +1 !!
Occam:
I fail to see what one has to do with the other, but I’m sure the connection exists in your mind.
If you go back through time in American history you will find politicians voicing all kinds of thoughts: some almost communistic in nature, some marital (such as the quote you linked to) some patriotic, some scornful.
The one constant you will find is that the amount of bureaucracy and the amount of federal and state laws that impact the American peoples daily lives has gone up and never paused or slowed down.
Another thing thing is it is less important what politicians SAY as to what they DO. I mean, it’s politics 101: you say what your base wants to hear then you do as much as you can for the real donors to your campaign while trying not to alienate your base too much.
Can you show me the last time our foreign policy was isolationist?
How about the last economic populist politician? Unless you count Perot or Forbes (and both are iffy from a “leftwing” point of view) it’s hard to find the last time a politician on the national stage was an economic populist, critical of corporate power. The last one I can name is McGovern. What about you?
The last elections, although not in the 70-90 range, show a new development: the tea party. Obama’s “transformation” is not new but rather the culmination of years of work. That volcano blew and can’t blow again. The 2012 elections will be influenced by the tea party. Transformation? Not so much.
A REAL left wing dictator.
All hail The Leader.
Ooops..forgot my link for that. LOL.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/12/17/venezuela.chavez/index.html
Brad the Black Knight.
¡No pasaré¡n!
Oblio:
Are you saying Chavez is a glutton for punishment, or I am? If you mean me, I’ve suffered worse. Now come back here you coward! 😉
I find Chavez to be a jerk, but a comical one with delusions of grandeur and all that.
Brad said, “Military service proves nothing about a person.”
Have you served?
Serving in a time of combat means you have declared your willingness to give everything you have, up to and including your life, for the country.
That does not necessarily make the man or woman a saint. It does, however, show a seriousness of purpose and a loyalty to the cause of freedom. In my book that deserves respect and a recognition of character not found in the run of the mill citizen.
Just initial basic training or boot camp tests a person’s dedication and willingness to sacrifice. Not all make it. If Obama had served he would have a greater respect and regard for our military. But he, and maybe you, seems to believe they are there because they couldn’t get a better job. That kind of thinking really p****s me off. Do not sell military service short – ever!
J.J. :
I’m not selling military service short, but I’m damn sure not to going to exult it either. When it comes down to it, military service means you learn how to kill people. That’s all it’s really all about for both the good and bad. Oh, and you learn discipline.
Unlike you I don’t worship every war the US military fights in. It’s good to know that for the most part our troops behave themselves when it comes to non-combatants and its nice to know your son or daughter is brave , but that doesn’t make a foolish or immoral war any less foolish or immoral.
Here, from a guy who served in Vietnam:
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Lumbo.shtml
I think you’ve lost sight of the military as a necessary evil and started to worship it as an institution. All we need is a few percent of the military to follow your lead, and we can have a nice coup.
In any case, I’ll volunteer to join the US military when the continental US is in danger of invasion, and not before. That’s all I’m obligated to do as a citizen, and my citizenship is every bit as good as yours.
Brad, in the fullness of time you’re going to make a fine adult.
Until that time, you’re becoming tiresome.
That’s right, Brad, pick your wars. You can do that now. The force is all volunteer. And, of course, you are much more intelligent than anyone else and in possession of all the pertinent facts. You are a one man CIA and State Department. You will decide when there is a threat. Do you have any idea why freedom in the world has spread as much as it has since WWII? Didn’t think so. Do some research and discover why the world isn’t Communist today.
It isn’t because of the hippies that snuck off to Canada.
Do you know what language you’d be speaking if men had not stepped forward in the past? It wouldn’t be English. We wouldn’t be having this conversation either.
If you can read and write, thank a teacher.
If you appreciate your freedom of speech, thank a soldier.
Occam:
I will no longer be responding to you until you learn to
A. Argue honestly
B. Argue intelligently
C. Stop with the personal attacks
Since I haven’t seen a single thing in this thread to indicate that you can do those three things, I don’t think I’ll be responding to you in the future.
Isn’t that nice? Doesn’t it save us both a lot of “tiresome” typing?
J.J:
I appreciate that you at least tried to make an argument, but it’s not one I prefer to address now. I’ll just say I think you over-state the US militarys contribution and leave it at that.
Occam:
I will no longer be responding to you until you learn to
A. Argue honestly
B. Argue intelligently
C. Stop with the personal attacks
What a delicious irony! Or karma. or a look in the mirror?
In any case, that just made my Sunday morning great.
Brad,
If you want to influence people, you need to a) ground your observations in experience, story, or recognizable theory and b) make your reasoning accessible by establishing a common frame of reference.
If you want to learn how to establish authority in your writing, you should go back and study kolnai’s comments here, or Mrs Whatsit or Promethea. We know very little about them, but we know that when they comment, it is always serious and worth reading.
“”I think you’ve lost sight of the military as a necessary evil and started to worship it as an institution.””
I wonder if there are Prarie Dog colonies at risk because of emotionally conflicted members decide they don’t like the way Prarie Dog existence involving a sentry class works?
Nahhhh. Prarie Dogs aren’t that stupid and so full of themselves that they need to be viewed as “so above” all the non nuanced Prarie Dogs. Apparently only humans can be so indoctrinated that their need to FEEL superior over other members overides their species’s survival.
Brad thinks Chavez is “comical”.
You’re waste of time, Brad; you’re wasting your own time. You are a monkey with a keyboard. You would engage a pit viper in a staring contest.
“That such an administration could be elected in the first place, headed by a man whose only qualifications to be president of the United States at a dangerous time in the history of the world were rhetoric, style and symbolism — and whose animus against the values and institutions of America had been demonstrated repeatedly over a period of decades beforehand — speaks volumes about the inadequacies of our educational system and the degeneration of our culture.” Thomass Sowell – “Dismantling America”