December 28th, 2010

What do birthers want?

Memo to Governor Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii: many of the folks who would like Obama to produce his Hawaiian long form birth certificate don’t actually think he was born abroad. They just would like him to properly document the fact that he was born here, since his father was a foreign non-citizen and there are rumors that the baby was born elsewhere, and the most official and complete document—the long form—has never been released.

They also believe that proper proof of Hawaiian birth does not consist of the assertion by Governor Abercrombie that he knew Obama’s parents personally and saw them take the baby to social events in Hawaii.

Many (perhaps even most?) of so-called “birthers” are more like “proofers.” They would merely like the long form certificate to be released and the whole controversy put to rest. Abercrombie may believe he’s foiling them by offering to release it, but he would actually be fulfilling their request.

Plenty of people critical of the birthers/proofers contend that they’re racist, demanding of Obama what they would never demand of someone who isn’t black. But there’s nothing particularly unique here. Similar issues were raised regarding John McCain in 2008, and not many people raised a fuss about it. The issue for McCain was slightly different, since both his parents were indisputably American citizens; the question was whether his birth while his father was serving in the military in the Panama Canal Zone qualified him as a “natural-born citizen.”

What’s more, there were quite a few predecessors in controversy, all of them white:

The last Arizona Republican to be a presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state…[The question] also surfaced in the 1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell P. Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.

[NOTE: Is Abercrombie claiming to have been Stanley Dunham Obama's labor coach here?:

Maybe I'm the only one in the country that could look you right in the eye right now and tell you, 'I was here when that baby was born.' "

I would guess what he really means is that he was in Hawaii when the baby was born, rather than the delivery room.]

40 Responses to “What do birthers want?”

  1. RickZ Says:

    The 21st president, Chester A. Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.

    That wasn’t the issue that raised the specter of Arthur’s ineligibility. Arthur’s father was not a citizen at the time of Chester’s birth. The issue was that Chester’s father not being a citizen at the time of his birth did not make him natural-born, which is the issue I have with Obama as a so-called ‘birther’.

    The definition of natural-born has never been codified or clarified. It is my understanding the original writers of the Constitution did not want dual loyalties to hinder or affect the decision making process of a president of the United States, hence they wanted the president to be born on US soil of two parents who were citizens. Why else would the phrase ‘natural-norn’ be used as a requirement for only two jobs? This is my issue with Obama’s eligibility, so the birth certificate, in that case, is irrelevent. To me, the issue of Obama providing his birth certificate is that anyone else seeking a job in the US must provide proof of citizenship (or green card, etc.). Why should we take anyone’s word, on faith, that such is the case when it comes to our highest and most powerful job? We are a Nation of Laws, and no man is supposed to be above the law.

  2. SteveH Says:

    I’ve never felt comfortable with this birther issue. I get the sneaking feeling it was simply a set up from the beginning to at some point provide a gotcha moment to paint all opposition to Obama as whacky conspirators. Which the media will then spin to discredit all criticism ever of Obama as obviously made by the same whackos.

  3. Curtis Says:

    Good point, SteveH. I’ve thought the same exact thing as an alternative to my main thought which is more radical than Obama was born in Kenya. I think Obama is the son of the supposed grandfather and some unknown black lady. This theory is set forth by the noted researcher on the issue, Jack Cashill.

    On still another note, no-one should be CIC if their father is from another country. Too much of a loyalty question.

  4. foxmarks Says:

    I would consider a C-in-C of foreign parents (I differ from the Constitution). A candidate who refuses to reveal and/or obfuscates the facts of his birth is not trustworthy.

    When loyalty is a question, I want someone with a proven, provable biography of knowing and supporting the culture and the country. Show me evidence of a lifelong allegiance.

    It is similarly troubling that the current President has no record of religion and faith. History and experience make character. Barry may have been born in Hawai’i, but he is not a natural American. He is a fabrication.

  5. Darrell Says:

    To me it is an entire pattern of deception, no college grades, SAT scores etc, no childhood or teenage friends, you would think they would come out of the woodwork, the birth certificate is just one small part of it for me.

  6. M J R Says:

    Remember when George W. Bush (or perhaps I should say, his presidential campaign) was relentlessly cross-examined by our wonderful news media as to irrefutable ^proof^ of his whereabouts this one weekend when he was a member of the National Guard and allegedly A.W.O.L.?

    Just musin’ . . .

    [Dubya was a white dude, wasn't he?]

  7. daisy Says:

    I think Obama won’t release the birth certificate for one of two reasons: either his father was just some unknown black man, not Dr. Obama or he just doesn’t want to give white people the satisfaction of making him do what he doesn’t want to.

  8. Gringo Says:

    What Darrell said about the lack of other information about his background -other than his book.

    I see him as being born in Hawaii, but suspect there is some information on the birth certificate that is being withheld for unknown reasons.

  9. Occam's Beard Says:

    They also believe that proper proof of Hawaiian birth does not consist of the assertion by Governor Abercrombie that he knew Obama’s parents personally …

    Oh, so we’re trading apocrypha now? Well, then I knew Obama’s parents personally too, and I saw them at Communist Party cell meetings in Moscow, right after hitting the mosque.


  10. Susanamantha Says:

    The truth will out.

  11. Occam's Beard Says:

    I think Obama was born in Hawaii, but won’t release his birth certificate because it contains something embarrassing, perhaps politically fatal.

    But I think the larger issue is that no one be above the law, not even the Messiah. Forcing him to release the birth certificate, or in the alternative admit it doesn’t exist, would go a long way toward reinforcing the rule of law. For too long the political class has increasingly viewed itself as above us peasants. It’s about time they learned otherwise.

  12. Darrell Says:

    Good point OB, it also sets a dangerous precedent for future candidates, they wont have to produce proof of anything.

  13. SteveH Says:

    “”I see him as being born in Hawaii, but suspect there is some information on the birth certificate that is being withheld for unknown reasons.”"

    What are the possibilities?
    1. His real name was Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed.
    2. His middle name was Manchurian.
    3. Sex was unknown.
    3. He and Hugo Chavez had the same baby daddy.
    4. His address listed was that of the only mosque in Hawaii.

  14. Daniel in Brookline Says:

    It may simply be that he didn’t release his records initially because he didn’t feel like it, or didn’t feel he needed to. (Rules for other people famously do not apply to him — and this isn’t even a rule, more a never-tested expectation. I don’t believe we’ve ever before had a candidate for President who insisted he was American-born, and when asked for proof, told us to take it on faith.)

    Then, having made it clear that he didn’t want to release any of his records, he may have maintained that line simply out of stubbornness. (His record for doubling down on a bad bet is also well known.)

    We’ll see. His birth certificate exists somewhere; I can’t believe that all copies of it have been destroyed. And in that case, there must be some people who have seen it, and the Obama team can’t silence them all. So sooner or later, someone will no doubt come forward.

    It may be a moot point if he chooses not to run for re-election… but if he does, I believe there are now several states that have refused to put him on the ballot until this issue is settled.

    History will not be kind to us. It will record that we elected a President with no experience, no bona fides, and no character witnesses to speak of — and it will openly wonder what on Earth we were thinking. (“Well”, we’ll say, “this came immediately after a very unpopular President, and America didn’t want to elect someone from the same party.” This excuse will get the ridicule it deserves.)

    Daniel in Brookline

  15. Papa Dan Says:

    I’d be more interested in his school records, but since we’re in this neck of the woods I’ve wondered if his real father wasn’t Frank Marshall Davis.

  16. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Suppose it turns out he’s not eligible.
    All those sneering at the birthers will say…what?
    That birth doesn’t matter, anyway.

  17. Artfldgr Says:

    his SS registration is also funky…
    [his failing to actually register would also bar him]

    if i show a colb to get a loan, license, etc…
    they would turn me down…

    also, everyone old enough to remember times back then is also old enough to remember the GAMES people payed to get citizenship, or make it ambiguous so that a person could have several. it was HARD to move around the world compared to today.

    meanwhile… all this has bigger ramifications.

    like any treaty that he signs we may follow but the other state may claim he was ineligible to sign!!!

    that is, go ahead, sign start… only the US will follow it as the russians will claim he isnt valid… the longer its in limbo, the easier it is for them to make false documents (or get real ones) that then will establish this…

    any treaty they dont want to follow they dont have to.

    and if any one here said they did, they can say he isn’t valid. and if they say he is… they will just point out all the missing and unacceptable parts that we today are being made fools of to prevent digging.

    and didnt you notice that they left it alone for a while then picked it up again? why? because now, they are completely confusing the issue and generating the history that people will remember.

    that it was tin hatters… conspiracy theorists..

    which was the point of social engineering ‘conspiracy theory’ as a social negative to hide conspiracies… to make them seem abnormal when lots of dealings are conspiratorial between people and unannounced to the world.

    What was Molotov Ribbentrop?
    What was Yalta?
    What was Kennedy and Giancarlo?
    what was Watergate?
    the Nixon tapes?
    Alger hiss?

    once they made social freedom and communism synonymous, then Neil Abercrombie and his ilk would seem to be those working towards social freedom under state slavery… (communism).

    read his history… what a pip..

  18. Vieux Charles Says:

    Even the moonbats at MSNBC are saying “release the document”. So why wouldn’t he? The common answer, “he’s too busy with more important issues” doesn’t cut it. As President all he need do is lift an eye brow and an aid would do the rest.

    The real reason: it is in his political favor to label those who either won’t believe, and those who just honestly want proof into one group of nutcases.

  19. Vieux Charles Says:

    this should work.

  20. Gringo Says:

    SteveH to Gringo:
    “What are the possibilities?” [of information on the birth certificate being withheld]

    Most likely illegitimate birth, though these days, I don’t see why that would be that big a deal.

    I find the coincidences/ connections regarding Obama, Frank Marshall Davis and Chicago to be uncanny. FM Davis works in Chicago w Valerie Jarrett’s future father-in-law on various leftist/commie projects. Goes to Hawaii. Obama ends up in Chicago, associate of Jarrett. (not to mention Billy Boy and Bernie, even more interesting conicidences.). While I consider it a possibility that Frank Marshall Davis is actually the father, I doubt this information would be on the birth certificate.

    I would consider your hypothesis on the birth certificate issue to be plausible.

  21. Occam's Beard Says:

    I find the coincidences/ connections regarding Obama, Frank Marshall Davis and Chicago to be uncanny. FM Davis works in Chicago w Valerie Jarrett’s future father-in-law on various leftist/commie projects. Goes to Hawaii. Obama ends up in Chicago, associate of Jarrett. (not to mention Billy Boy and Bernie, even more interesting conicidences.).

    Also Obama goes to Occidental, a Red hotbed of longstanding, then for some obscure reason goes to Columbia (ditto), where he doesn’t meet Ayers, although they lived a few blocks apart and worked on the same anti-apartheid campaign, and Ayers was a Red celebrity at that point. Then Obama moves to Chicago, where as luck would have it he is a neighbor of Ayers yet again, marries an associate of Ayers’ wife, is recruited by Ayers to serve on a board distributing/ pissing up $100 MM (to no discernible effect), launches his political career in Ayers’ living room, and leaves his kids to be babysat at chez Ayers. Good thing he didn’t know Ayers; the mind boggles at what would have happened had he had.

    I’m skeptical of coincidences, but even if I weren’t, there are way too many. Way, way, way too many.

    Either Obama and Ayers are lovers, or they’re comrades. There’s no third choice.

    Put it this way: how many out and proud communists have any of us known, personally? How many terrorists? Yet Obama’s entire history is SRO with ‘em. That’s not a coincidence.

  22. Curtis Says:

    Artfldgr: Your definition of pip, please?

  23. Darren S Says:

    My understanding is that the fact that he was born in Hawaii is not the real issue. It is his actual date of birth, as depending upon that, his birth in Hawaii may not have made him a naturalized citizen according to the laws that were in effect during the time. It has to do with the age of his mother at the time of his birth and how long she had resided in Hawaii.

  24. suek Says:

    Don’t forget the dual citizenship issue as well. He was adopted by his Indonesian father – Sotero. According to what I’ve read, if you assume he was a legitimate natural born citizen prior to that, his status wouldn’t be affected by his parent’s actions, as long as he didn’t make use of that Indonesian citizenship after he reached his majority. Problem is – what passport did he use to travel to Pakistan in ’81? If he used an Indonesian passport, then he effectively _is_ a dual citizen, and hence does not qualify. By the way… I’ve read that the guy who didn’t know about the bombers arrested in England (can’t remember his name) just happened to be the owner of the company whose employees were prosecuted for accessing O’s passport files. Don’t know if that’s accurate.
    However…Indonesia has a one month visa duration limit, and O spent at least 3 months there to write his autobiography. Sure makes you go “Hmmmmm…”.

    My big question is: Just _suppose_ that the new Republican House decides to look into the matter, and determines that for whatever reason, O was not eligible to be president. What happens then? What would be the fall-out??

    I’ve asked that question many places – never had an answer. Anybody????

  25. The Den Mother Says:

    As a never-married mother, I have long suspected that Obama’s mother might not have been married when Barack was born, and that perhaps this is why the Prez doesn’t want the long form birth certificate released. But this is the 21st century, for crying out loud, and I seriously doubt such knowledge would have dissuaded anyone from voting for him. Even those who think such a situation is scandalous would have to conceded that the child wasn’t he one who engaged in the supposedly improper behavior.

    I don’t actually doubt that he was born in Hawaii, nor do I think it would matter if he (or any other president) were born outside the country to at least one American citizen parent, which would confer citizenship. The constitution is conspicuous in its failure to define what “natural-born citizen” means, but it seems that for everyone except a potential President, it is widely accepted as meaning someone who is born a citizen, either by virtue of being born in the United States or being born to at least one citizen parent, or both. So by that definition, the exact location of McCain’s birth shouldn’t have mattered, either.

  26. The Den Mother Says:

    Apparently I was temporarily possessed by some illiterate boob when typing that comment, so I’ll try again with the offending sentence:

    Even those who think such a situation is scandalous would have to concede that the child wasn’t the one who engaged in the supposedly improper behavior.

    There, I feel better. And my 6th grade teacher, Sister Mary Ethel, SND, is no longer turning over in her grave.

  27. Occam's Beard Says:

    My understanding is that the fact that he was born in Hawaii is not the real issue. It is his actual date of birth

    Hadn’t heard about the date issue, but it puts another dynamic in play.

    Given a birthdate of Aug. 4, 1961, and assuming the usual nine month gestation period, young Stanley was only legal by about a week at the time of conception, which in itself is remarkable.

    If Junior was born any earlier, and wasn’t premature, then dear old Dad committed statutory rape when he was teaching Stanley horizontal Kenyan folk dancing.

    Illegitimacy isn’t such a big deal nowadays (thanks, Hollywood!), and IIRC 72% of American blacks are currently born illegitimately (thanks, liberals!). But statutory rape is still deprecated. A bit. For now.

    No opprobrium attaches (nor should it attach) to the issue (i.e., product) of a statutory rape, of course, but it would cut that “Dreams from My Father” crap off at the knees, and vitiate all of Ayers’ hard work.

  28. Occam's Beard Says:

    My big question is: Just _suppose_ that the new Republican House decides to look into the matter, and determines that for whatever reason, O was not eligible to be president. What happens then? What would be the fall-out??

    I’ve asked that question many places – never had an answer. Anybody????

    Depends on Barry’s popularity, and thus is a function of when this happens. But if it were to happen while Barry’s still retained significant popularity, I fear it would lead to something approximating civil war. Never mind the legal minutiae of the status of legislation Barry signed.

  29. suek Says:

    >>Never mind the legal minutiae of the status of legislation Barry signed.>>

    This is the minutiae that I wonder about.

    Race war??? yeah…that too. Not really worried about civil war with the Libs – too few can bring themselves to touch guns.

  30. Occam's Beard Says:

    That’s assuming the leftists would fight fair. They wouldn’t. It’d be sneaky terrorist rubbish 24/7. Ayers might come out of retirement, or at least give the comrades some tips, if they didn’t explicitly ally themselves with Muslim terrorists.

    I’m with Chris Rock in marveling at blacks who threaten race war. Perhaps TV has given them a mistaken impression of their numbers; they’re only roughly 12% of the population, mostly concentrated in particular districts of cities, and of course easily recognizable. Under the circumstances, making nice would be a good idea.

  31. Artfldgr Says:

    Anyone who ever played or has had kids who played little league baseball, know that its organized according to age. Of course there were some kids and their parents who would try to game the system by playing with the younger kids. A kid of 13 might try and play in A league with 12 and 11 year olds, giving him a big advantage. To avoid this, hopefully, the first question you were ask at the registration table was, “Son, did you bring your birth certificate?”

    There was actually a scandal or two with the Little League World Series where kids were, I don’t know, 21 or 22 and pitching against 12 year olds. The coaches claimed not to know, but if the 80 mile an hour fastball, wicked slider, and goatee weren’t clues, I don’t know what would have been. The coaches had implausible deniability on their side, however, those kids had provided birth certificates.

    You know what that means? The parents forged documents to get their kids in the game. They risked prison just so their son could strike out twenty 11 year olds and watch them cry over on the bench. A ball game, people, a ball game. A kids game. Imagine what they would have done to make them, say, President of the United States.

    For a long time I didn’t buy into this whole birther nonsense. Frankly, I think this is just a trap devised by Barack Obama to make his critics look like kooks. At least that’s what I thought in 2008, then I watched his State and Treasury Departments in action for the last two years and I began to wonder if he was really smart enough to be Machiavelli.


    When I was 12 I looked like I was maybe 10. I was short, thin, and had a baby face. I was a good fielder but a terrible batter and that wouldn’t change until high school. I’m telling you, if my Mother hadn’t reached into her purse and produced my Birth certificate, the pudgy guy with the wrinkled face on the other side of the table wasn’t going to let me play ball.

  32. Artfldgr Says:

    Put it this way: how many out and proud communists have any of us known, personally?

    I have known many proud communists…
    and ex-communists…
    and even some who were looking for people…

  33. Artfldgr Says:


    (1) A pain in the ass.
    (2) A real character.
    (3) Someone who tends to be difficult, but still like able.

    Sunday, September 19, 2010 / Neil Abercrombie 2009: A year of corruption

    Here is a selection of articles about Rep Neil Abercrombie (D-HI), leading Democrat candidate for Governor. Certain patterns emerge from reading them:

    1) Pay-for-play politics with military contractors and other contributors

    2) Efforts to organize dependency groups controlled by political cronies and put them in control of “land and assets” (Akaka Bill)

    3) Efforts to undermine the traditional family and marriage, and efforts to extend “hate crimes’ protection to pedophiles

    4) Consistent support for socialized medicine, Carbon Tax and other tax increases.

    5) Consistent opposition to Israel and advocacy on behalf of the foreign policy interests of Islamist terrorist groups.

    the rest of the page is a list of links to articles…

    Neil Abercrombie, D-Hezbollah (2006)

    Business as Usual: Neil Abercrombie Votes to Kill Motion to Investigate Pay-to-Play Earmark Schemes

    Abercrombie on Spending Freeze: Forget It!

    Washington Examiner: Dirty money flows to Rep. Neil Abercrombie, D-HI

    Congress votes to protect pedophiles against ‘hate speech’

    Price of Apology: Clinton, Obama, and the Hawaiian Quid Pro Quo

    The Akaka Bill: A Cash Cow for Democrats

    House Natural Resources Committee considers Akaka Bill

    Kamehameha Day, 2009 — Abercrombie, Hirono, Akaka, Inouye sending Hawaiians back to tribalism?

    Poll shows Abercrombie leads Hawaii Governors’ Race

    Abercrombie nailed for $51M in “Defense” Pork

    Djou denounces Abercrombie’s “$20B reckless fiscal maneuver”

    Defense Contractor Charged With Kickbacks Helped Fund Murtha’s Campaigns (Abercrombie’s too)

    Akaka Bill UPDATE: House Committee CANCELS Thursday vote

    Akaka Bill postponed: Dems balk at OHA cronies’ demands for more loot

    Hastings: Dept of Justice seeks changes in Akaka Bill

    Congressional townhall meetings go wild (Coming to Hawaii next week?)

    Abercrombie’s nervous communist Czar: Cap and Trade, and the cost to Hawaii

    Rep Bordallo: Abercrombie’s $10B Guam pork deal “not going to sail”

    Obamacare debate rages in Hawaii — but no townhalls scheduled here

    Djou calls Hawaii Healthcare townhall meeting

    Rep. Neil Abercrombie is CAGW’s August Porker of the Month

    Abercrombie’s basis for Hawaii “green jobs” recovery? Nervous communist “Green Jobs” Czar now a national story

    UPDATE: Abercrombie’s “Green Jobs” point man exposed as 9-11 Truther RESIGNS

    Furloughs vs Layoffs: The union no-solution strategy

    SB: Why are we in Afghanistan? (Debunked)

    Abercrombie and Hirono co-sponsor Gay Marriage Bill (The Broken Trust connection)

    Obama Must Lead On Afghanistan (Abercrombie debunked)

    Follow the money: $10B Guam pork project benefits Abercrombie contributor

    Lingle: DoE Superintendent should be appointed by next Governor

    Obamacare passes House 220-215 after abortion funding removed

    CBS News Nails Abercrombie for giving multi-million dollar earmarks to campaign donors

    Abercrombie defends $3.5M earmark after being nailed by CBS

    Defense_bill_benefits_Inouye, Akaka, Abercrombie contributors

    Mufi chases Neil Abercrombie out of Congress

    Akaka Bill to be voted by House and Senate Committees

    Ka`auwai: Abercrombie embarrassed by earmark for campaign co-chair

    Sovereignty activists protest Akaka Bill “Sneak Attack” — Bill could be inserted into “must pass” legislation

    Inouye denies planning “Akaka Bill Sneak Attack”

    House Republicans call for Akaka Bill to be removed from Markup

    Did Inouye Lie? National Review confirms “Akaka Bill Sneak Attack” claim

    SHOCK: Lingle, Bennett denounce new version Akaka Bill (full text)

    FULL TEXT: Abercrombie’s secret rewritten Akaka Bill

    Hearing stalls as Democrats attempt Markup of rewritten Akaka Bill

    Rejected: Akaka rewrite blows up in Abercrombie’s face–but original version passes

    Senate Indian Affairs Committee passes amended Akaka Bill–could exclude majority of Hawaiians from Tribe

    Akaka Bill: More than 73% of Hawaiians not “Qualified” for membership in Akaka Tribe

    a real pip…

    see also: Democratic Socialists of America (D.S.A.) and New Party

    Lou Pardo
    s Quentin Young
    Timuel Black
    Congressman Danny K. Davis
    Cornel West (check out his nickelodeon interview for kids!)
    Rabbi Arnold Jacob Wolf
    David Bonior
    Hilda Solis
    Barbara Ehrenrich (daughter of DSA leader)
    Rosa Brooks

    D.S.A. Political Action Committee endorsed two Congressional candidates
    “DSAer” Democrat Neil Abercrombie
    Independent Bernie Sanders
    see “Democratic Left” (DSA magazine) Dec 1990

    Democratic Left Winter 2007:

    He (Sanders)flew to Washington and the next day attended the Washington, D.C., DSA PAC party at the home of Stewart Mott. Not only did Bernie Sanders speak; so did members of Congress Neil Abercrombie (HI) and Dennis Kucinich (OH). Christine Riddiough, former DSA National Director, served as host/ moderator’.

    he also was a member of Congressional Progressive Caucus

    and check out George (Skip) Roberts (aide to Abercrombie), the representative of DSA to the Socialist International

    Roberts is now active in the Republican party representing Andy Stern (SEIU, etc….)

    Abercrombie’s wife Nancie Caraway, an academic, noted for her far left views, has also been a D.S.A. member.

    Ehrenreich founded Progressives for Obama , with D.S.A. comrades Bill Fletcher, Jr. and Tim Carpenter
    at Obama’s request: Dr. Caraway currently serves as a consultant to U.S. Ambassador Luis C. de Baca in the Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons

    Bernie Sanders addressed the U.S. Peace Council in November 1989… this is a CPUSA controlled organization and had soviet affiliations… speaking with Manning Marabl and Holly Sklar…

    and involved with all these others is Kurt Stand
    who is he?

    well he is now serving time for spying for the soviet union and east Germany…

    Kurt Alan Stand, then 42, a regional labor union representative along with his wife, Theresa Squillacote (39), a former senior staff lawyer in the office of the Deputy Under Secretary of Defense, and friend James Clark (49), a private investigator, were arrested 4 Oct 1997 on charges of spying for East Germany and Russia.[1] Kurt Stand is now married to Lisa Foley Stand . He is due for release from prison in 2012.

    where he will be appointed ambassador… or something by obama…

    Socialist Scholars Conference
    Elaine Bernard; Arthur Lipow, Michael Harrington Center; Kurt Stand, Democratic Socialists of America and Judy Page, New Party were speakers on the Towards a New Party panel sponsored by the Democratic Socialists of America at the Tenth Annual Socialist Scholars Conference. The conference was held April 24-26, 1992 at the Borough of Manhattan Community College, New York City.

    President Obama and the Radical Socialist Agenda

    Kurtz begins his account in 1983, presenting evidence that Barack Obama, then a senior undergraduate at Columbia University, attended several annual sessions of the “Socialist Scholars Conference.” Kurtz describes the shift of strategy that took place at that meeting to turn the socialist movement from its goal of “nationalization” to community organizing as the best means of promoting the movement during the Reagan administration. Kurtz details the evidence that Socialist Scholars conferences influenced Obama and refutes the president’s claim that his embrace of community organizing was an “impulse.” Instead, in Kurtz’s fully documented account, the Socialist Scholars conferences provided the future president with a vision for transforming America, as well as a way for black Americans to be the driving force behind that transformation through the efforts of the Midwest Academy, a training institute that Kurtz credits with Obama’s political ascendancy.

    i sure hope neo doesnt delete this!!!!

    go to the wiki and read the part on Kurts support of Obama…

    Espionage career

    Kurt Stand began his spying activities in 1972 after being recruited by East Germany to cultivate other spies in the Washington, DC, area. He was introduced to East German intelligence officers (the Stasi) through his father, Maxmillian, or Mille Stand, a chemical engineer who fled Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

    An FBI affidavit said East Germany’s relationship with the Stand family goes back to Stand’s father, who recruited his son as a communist agent. In a secretly recorded conversation, Squillacote said the family relationship was even deeper.

    “Between my husband and myself we go back in this work to 1918,” she told an undercover FBI agent, according to the affidavit.

    Clark, Squillacote, and Stand attended the University of Wisconsin in the 1970s where they were affiliated with the Progressive Student Forum and the Young Workers Liberation League, the youth arm of the Communist Party USA. Stand recruited Clark in 1976 and Squillacote about the time the couple was married in 1980.

    Before obtaining a position at the Pentagon, Theresa Squillacote was employed by the National Labor Relations Board and, later, the House Armed Services Committee.

    She sent numerous photographs to her German handlers. Squillacote told an undercover FBI agent that she turned to spying to support the progressive anti-imperialist movement. She first came to the attention of the FBI in 1995 when she offered to be a spy in a letter to a South African government Minister who was a leader of the South African Communist Party

    of course i am still trying to get others to read the history… even here where interested, people wont.

    if people took the time to actually follow the history, so all of us would be on the same page, we still wouldnt be arguing an iota of whether or not something is something!!!!!

    there are so many names and organizations above, that if one just picked one and followed it out and noted stuff, you would see that thee organizations are as linked up as they were in the early 30s…
    (actually MORE so)

    i just looked up the students progressive forum

    Join DSA and our allies for a dialogue on current issues facing the progressive movements and their allies in our region. The Progressive Forum seeks to bring together scholars, students, social justice and union activists, and policy makers to nurture a new kind of conversation from within the campus and the social movements.

    communists, fabians, socialists, marxists, anarchists, racialists, social justice, etc..

    and yet, you cant get a common person to even entertain the idea that these are mostly all fronts..

    now you know what i mean by PIP…
    its a sarcastic aside which basically allows me to comment, and i dont have to explain all this stuff, which will end up deleted anyway..

    and will inspire none to follow their own threads…

    more fun guessing…
    just like the german people, who were confused and so did NOT act… if they were clear as to what things were, and where they lead, they would NOT have behaved the same.

    what is a nation?

    a set of communal beliefs, and behaviors under a name…

    change our beliefs, our actions, and history
    and we become something else, thinking none of it matters, as we feel the same…

  34. Curtis Says:

    Thank you, Art. Very nice.

    I’m planning on reading your last post at break.

  35. Occam's Beard Says:

    Thanks for this most useful information, Artfldgr.

  36. KBK Says:

    i sure hope neo doesnt delete this!!!!

    It would be more polite IMHO to provide links. Or start your own blog ;-)

  37. RickZ Says:

    Artfldgr, doing the work at neo-neo con that journalists won’t do at the alphabet networks.

    I had always wondered how Obama ended up in Chicago after growing up in Hawaii/Indonesia, then attending Occidental in California and Columbia in NYC. Then I read the connection between Frank Marshall Davis and Chicago/Hawaii and the Jarretts (Davis/Chicago). Now a Jarrett is Obama’s top advisor. Then there was Ayres attending a different college in NYC while Barry went to Columbia, living a few blocks away (but probably travelling in the same circles), then launching his first campaign in Ayers’ living room and working on the board of the Annenberg Project with Ayers, which makes another Chicago connection.

    Obama’s history is there to see, if one bothers to read/dig it up. Or one can read Artfldgr’s posts and do a little searching of the groups and organizations in his posts. Too many do not comprehend that there really are commies in the White House, with the President leading the (Internationale) way.

    For some juicy conspiracy theories about Obama’s origins, go to this American Thinker article.

    Here’s a good explanation for Obama burying his birth certificate behind a phalanx of lawyers: Obama’s grandfather, Stanley Dunham, is really Obama’s father, after a coupling with a black prostitute in Hawaii, meeting her in one of the black bars he and Davis frequented. Barack, Sr., was a beard for Gramps, probably paid to put his name to the baby which, for a muslim polygamist/communist, wouldn’t be an issue at all. Also explains how Barack, Sr., could just move off to Harvard and give no more thought to baby Barack, or ever see him again. Having his daughter claim to be the mother would also explain how easily she shipped young Barry back to Hawaii to be raised by the grandparents while she remained in Indonesia with Soetoro and their child (and Barry’s supposed half-sister). Could also explain why Barry supposedly had a breakdown while at NYU: He found out the awful truth of his sordid family after Gramps told him he was his father and his mother was not his mother (with the breakdown being the theory why Barry will never release his medical records). Then Barack created the lovely fiction in ‘Dreams From My Father’ about that mythical Kenyan dad, and to admit now it was all a lie would be humiliating, and good ol’ Barry hates to be humiliated. Would also go to explaining Barry’s cold-hearted narcissism stemming from how his whole life is a lie.

    For my money, Barack Hussein Obama is a case study in family relationships shaping mental illness and creating a monster (like Tiberius/Caligula). Because the anger Barry has for this country and its inherent unfairness is a good explanation for the deliberate harm he is currently causing this Nation, what with defanging us on the nuclear front with the START Treaty, while hamstringing us with generational debt as well as Cloward-Pivening the system with ObamaCare. From Iran to Honduras to Venezuala to Cambridge, Barry is on the wrong side of an issue, and against the best interests of America and her People.

    I’m sure we’ll hardly ever see Barry off teleprompter ever again, as those are the moments he reveals himself, for anyone paying attention to such things.

    Barry is not a Manchurian candidate, as no code word or image is needed to make him do unspeakable things. He’s fully cognizant of the damage he does, and is quite happy to do it. Revenge/social justice demands it.

  38. suek Says:

    >>Obama’s grandfather, Stanley Dunham, is really Obama’s father, after a coupling with a black prostitute in Hawaii>>

    It has also been theorized that Frank Marshall Davis is actually his father. The funny thing is that if either is true, the eligibility question is moot – embarrassing as the facts might be.

  39. Foxfier Says:

    There’s also the theory that his father self-id’ed as Arab, not black, and he’s built his life around “Black” not “Arab.” (This works well with his wife– didn’t someone show he got more racial after her?)

  40. Marc Rauch Says:

    Does Historical Coincidence Unravel Obama’s Legitimacy?

    By Marc J. Rauch
    Exec. VP/Co-Publisher

    I have this nasty habit of researching things that I take an interest in; I’ve been that way forever. I think I learned more from researching topics on my own than I did from formal schooling. I read a book, see a movie, hear an abbreviated news report, and bang I’m at the family encyclopedia, at the library, nowadays online.

    Well, there I was, in my kitchen slurping up some hot delicious soup and reading the tail end of a “new” Sam Spade novel written under license by a Dashiell Hammett biographer, Joe Gores. The story includes a fictional Chinese woman who claims to be the daughter of Sun Yat-sen, the real-life “father” of nationalist China. The overall Spade story takes place in San Francisco in the period between the end of WWI and the start of the Depression – it’s meant as a prequel to the Sam Spade “Maltese Falcon” novel.

    I’m a bit rusty on my Sun Yat-sen legacy, so to brush up on his background and chronology of events I googled “Sun Yat-sen.” At the top of the Wikipedia page, and again in a section titled “Early Years,” Sun’s birth date and then birth place is listed as November 12, 1866 in Guangdong province (16 miles north of Macau), in the Empire of the Great Qing of China.

    Sun Yat-sen’s history goes on to relate how “after receiving a few years of local school, at age thirteen, Sun went to live with his elder brother, Sun Mei, in Honolulu. Sun Mei, who was fifteen years Sun Yat-sen’s senior, had emigrated to the Hawaiian Islands as a laborer and had become a prosperous merchant.” According to the listed birth date the year that Sun Yat-sen went to Hawaii was 1879.

    Everything jives with the new Spade novel; Joe Gores did his homework.

    A bit more reading about Sun reveals that he eventually graduated from a small Hawaiian college and then returned to his native land, China. It’s at this point that Sun Yat-sen’s history took on a dramatic story twist, a twist that has absolutely nothing to do with Sam Spade, but it may be the key to solving a mystery story of its own – a story that has been simmering at the top of our national news ever since Barak Hussein Obama’s name began being bandied about as a presidential candidate.

    It seems that around the turn of the century – the old one – 1900 or 1901, Sun Yat-sen returned to Hawaii. It was at this time in his life that Sun was involved in politics and trying to free China from it’s dictatorial monarchy. In 1904, Sun obtained a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth,” issued by the Territory of Hawaii, stating he was born on November 24, 1870 in Kula, Maui. (See the Wikipedia entry at

    The discrepancy of birthdates didn’t startle me, but the significance of the document’s meaning did.

    It has been said that Barak Obama, current president of the United States of America was not born in Hawaii or anywhere in America, as claimed by him and his supporters; thereby invalidating him to run for and hold the office of the President of the United States. For some peculiar reason, while a candidate for president must produce income tax records, he or she is not required to produce a genuine birth certificate.

    Obama himself doesn’t respond to the issue, which could be answered by simply providing a legally acceptable copy of a genuine birth certificate. Instead, what has been circulated is something that is called a “Certificate of Live Birth” from the State of Hawaii. It sort of sounds the same, but even the State of Hawaii doesn’t say that a “Certificate of Live Birth” is just the name for the document that is otherwise known as a “Birth Certificate.” There is a distinctive difference. (Sun Yat-sen’s certificate of live birth can be found online at )

    Some argue that proof of Obama’s Hawaiian birth can be found in the birth announcements of local Hawaiian newspapers. But, birth, death, and marriage announcements can be phoned in or submitted by mail. In today’s identity-theft, security-conscious world it may require some institutional or quasi-governmental documentation to get one of these announcements published, but at the (alleged) time of Obama’s birth America and Hawaii was a very different place. Newborns were not immediately assigned social-security numbers and I have the feeling that finger and sole prints were not regularly being taken.

    So there are three, no four, conclusions that I draw from this research:

    1) It’s a complete and utter coincidence that Hawaii issued Certificates of Live Birth to these two politicians.

    2) Every one hundred years or so Hawaii issues a “fake” birth document to someone that they would like to call a native son.

    3) Sun Yat-sen is really a native-born Hawaiian of Chinese ancestry, who returned to his ancestors’ homeland to fight for its freedom – something that all American-born Chinese can proudly salute.

    4) You know, wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

    Other resources corroborate Sun’s birth date and place as 1866 in China. See, for example.

    There’s one other strange but apparently true coincidence to this entire affair. Joe Gores, writer of the Sam Spade prequel, “Spade & Archer,” who has worked in his life as a private investigator, a repo-man, a truck driver, a logger, motel assistant manager, and of course journalist, also worked as an English teacher in Kenya, Africa, perhaps around the time of Barak Obama’s birth – You know, Kenya, the country where Barak Obama’s father was born and citizen of. (See

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