The Arab street: who are the Egyptian demonstrators and what do they want?
We’ve seen such demonstrations before, notably in Iran. But they were brief and flickered out after the government responded harshly. The same may ultimately occur in Egypt, but nevertheless there seems to be something different about the Egyptian demonstrations.
The NY Times has an article today with some glowing reports:
The protesters have spoken for themselves to a government that, like many across the Middle East, treated them as a nuisance. For years, pundits have predicted that Islamists would be the force that toppled governments across the Arab world. But so far, they have been submerged in an outpouring of popular dissent that speaks to a unity of message, however fleeting ”” itself a sea change in the region’s political landscape…
“The street is not afraid of governments anymore,” said Shawki al-Qadi, an opposition lawmaker in Yemen, itself roiled by change. “It is the opposite. Governments and their security forces are afraid of the people now. The new generation, the generation of the Internet, is fearless. They want their full rights, and they want life, a dignified life.”
It depends, doesn’t it? The new generation can afford to be fearless as long as the government doesn’t decide to put the big fear into them by killing significantly more than one or two here and there. If a government wants to crack down, it has more than enough power to do so, and my guess is that most people would not so heroic as to risk everything for the idea of democracy.
Some of the demonstrators had this to say:
“I tell the Arab world to stand with us until we win our freedom,” said Khaled Yusuf, a cleric from Al Azhar, a once esteemed institution of religious scholarship now beholden to the government. “Once we do, we’re going to free the Arab world.”…
“I’m fighting for my freedom,” Noha al-Ustaz said as she broke bricks on the curb. “For my right to express myself. For an end to oppression. For an end to injustice.”
Brave words, words I support and hope will come to be. But if democracy comes to a country such as Egypt, what rough beast will slouch towards Cairo to be born?
I’m old enought to remember 1979 and Iran quite vividly. Some of those same brave voices, that same exhilaration. And we know how it turned out. And that’s why I worry.
That, and polls such as this, which was taken in December of 2010. It indicates that the populace of Egypt may mean something quite different from what Americans mean when we use words such as “an end to injustice.”
Some of the findings:
Egyptians who support Hamas: 49%
Egyptians who support Hezbollah: 30%
Egyptians who support al Qaeda: 20%
95% agreement with religion playing a role in politics, with 48% thinking the role should be large, and 49% thinking it should be small
Of people in Egypt who see a struggle in their country between those who would like to modernize and those who are fundamentalists, 27% identify with the modernizers and a whopping 59% with the fundamentalists.
82% of Egyptian respondents favored stoning as punishment for adultery, and 84% favored death as punishment for apostasy (leaving the Muslim religion).
54% approve of suicide bombing in some circumstances.
It’s sobering, to say the least. When the real Arab street stands up, what will it be saying?
To quote Van der Leun, they’re “Egypsters” and they want to get their democracy on.
This is the question and it is no question but a warning. If Iran, which had less of the Muslim power and history, succumbed, how does anyone think Egypt will not.
Israel knows. Listen to what they say.
The really amazing part is that the majority want Mubarak to replaced by a coalition government, to be headed by Hoda Kotb.
Hoda Kotb.
“48% thinking the role should be large… 59% with the fundamentalists… 54% approve of suicide bombing in some circumstances…” If these figures are (more or less) an accurate reflection of the views of the Egyptians the proverbial cat is out of the bag and a major geo-political shift is in the making unless the Egyptian Army steps in and bottles up the fundamentalists. Otherwise, the fundamentalists will eventually seize control of the angry mob and use the rage in the streets for their own purposes.
What is in the best interests of the generals? Are they better served by an Egypt that is at peace with Israel and nominally cooperative with the West, in particular the USA? Will they be better served by collaborating with the fundamentalists and cooperate with them in creating a state rule by sharia? Does anyone here at neo-neocon have any insight on possible answers to these questions? If so, please enlighten me because it seems to me that the army will decide which way this turns out.
We are looking at a failed revolution utterly dominated by college age boys. Just look at the pictures.
They obviously have no structure.
This is more like a 1960’s anti-war protest.
They’ve got no solutions — and the food is running out at a clip.
Neo is correct: they’re destined to be chumps.
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Republican-democracy is not an effective form of government when the national IQ averages in the low 80s. It just doesn’t work. Such a structure ends up being one vote, one time — and then it’s off to despotism.
The reason the 3rd world is what it is revolves around low IQs and brain drain. The Smart Fraction ( those with IQs above 106 ) is THE element that drives the modern economic engine.
That’s how Hitler destroyed the momentum of Europe. It was the Ashkenazim that was the guiding light of Germany. They are lost forever. Germany will never be a leading nation again. She’ll have to settle for being in the pack.
The correlation between Smart Fraction and per capita GDP is argued here:
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft2.htm
Western aid should have always been focused upon lifting IQs and restraining population growth.
Of course, their impulse is to spend our largesse on military equipment and armies.
I suspect half the impulse for this weird priority is an army’s ability to tolerate and use amazingly stupid manpower. Thusly, the despot can park an awful lot of uneconomic manpower ( with the ‘correct’ political status ) into satisfying roles/rolls. ( It’s half what they do and half pure body count.)
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It’s better for Egypt to be under the control of a Liberal Despot than the Nazi styled Muslim Brotherhood.
The idea that a bunch of unrepresentative college students are going to cobble together an effective government more responsive and efficient than Mubarak is too absurd to argue about.
It is apparent that the boys involved are getting a huge testosterone rush by communal sharing of a collective threat.
It’s a college sit-in thats moved off campus.
And all the while these boobs are destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions.
The grocery stores are empty — the home cupboard is bare.
Resupply must begin immediately, the trucks must roll.
Play time is over.
From Drudge:
ABCNEWS REPORTER THREATENED WITH BEHEADING
I do believe I feel a smirk coming on.
The Egyptians must hate the MSM even more than we do.
Your NYT clip once again demonstrates the incompetence and laziness of MSM jornolists. As if quoting 2 Egyptians shows anything, anything at all. These two were probably standing together just outside the hotel’s bar.
Ya beat me to it, rickl!
The fundamentalist have been waiting for 14 centuries to impose their will. They are perfectly willing to wait another decade or two, (or ten), to have it all their way. In the meantime they are perfectly willing to let the Arab John Doe do the protesting, fighting, and dying. They can sit back,; not alienate the West; and conserve their resources for the final showdown.
We need a real leader like Reagan who recognized who and what the enemy was and wasn’t afraid to confront them. And we have Bozo the Clown in the White House.
Why is Washington doing all the talking?
I have not run across any comment from the Euro, Russia, India or China heads of states.
Baraq Hussein and Hillary aren’t talking to Egyptians; they’re talking to the sheep at home.
Tom, DC is doing all the talking because they are very worried that this is going to go bad. It’s a like the insecure date that can’t shut up. She doesn’t want to say the wrong thing, but keeps circling closer and closer to the drain.
After all, the US has been linked at the hip with HM for 30 years and everyone on the street knows it. A few words from O, though, and we’re in the clear. Right? I don’t think so–no way is this going to turn out well for the US.
blert,
Several things in your post struck me as a bit strange. 1.) I wouldn’t call Mubarak a ‘liberal’ despot. That doesn’t mean I think his fall from power is a good thing for the USA or Israel or the world at large. 2.) How can aid to be focused on raising IQ, assuming IQ is the problem? That which is measured by IQ tests is innate in the individual. IQ/intellect is somewhere around 70% the genetic shuffle the individual is dealt and 30% environment.
I think blert makes an excellent point with regard to IQ. We’re in danger of losing our own republican government by lowering our average IQ, both by subsidizing the underclass and by throwing open our borders to the Third World.
Arabs, Africans, and Muslims don’t do democracy well. The best we can hope for in Egypt is a military coup which supports a secular government. That’s what Turkey has although the role of Islam is increasing lately.
rickl,
Intelligence is largely innate (the shuffle of DNA) and environment is for the most part merely an obstacle or a boon to success. I disagree that “subsidizing the underclass” is the issue; although I am no fan of subsidizing much of anything, especially people who make bad choices.
It is my experience that there are plenty of examples of people who come from less than ideal situations who nonetheless rise above those circumstances. Likewise, there are plenty of examples of people who come from a background of plenty and become utter muck fups.
I believe its all a matter of the choices the individual makes. Some people make poor choices without regard to their circumstances and should not be rewarded or subsidized for the consequences of their choices. Others, who grow up in a less than ideal (or even destructive) environment manage to rise above their circumstances and make good choices.
IMO, it all comes down to the individual. Otherwise, it appears you are suggesting that the environment is the end all and be all. I don’t believe that. I believe the strong of spirit, those with will power, tend to survive and overcome their circumstances. Conversely, the weak of spirit and lacking courage readily fall victim to their circumstances.
Or, perhaps I am completely misconstruing your (and blert’s) post? I’ve been know to misconstrue now and then. 😉
Thinking upon my comments to rickl (and blert) I realize I did not discuss an important issue, namely larger culture of ones circumstances. Mr. Frank nudged me in this regard. As he noted, there are indeed cultures that create an environment that stifles individuality and punishes those who think outside the (cultural) box. In such a culture it is difficult to become a free thinking/acting individual.
If this cultural effect is what you are referring to I’ll channel Edith Bunker and say, “Never mind.”
Parker…
To a degree that is shocking muslims everywhere marry their cousins — even first cousins. It is established science that to do so norms down IQs 15 points straight off. (!)
Even KSA, with zero resource restraints, has a terrible cousin-marriage nightmare: WHO reports 29% birth defect rates for Saudi newborns! That’s off the charts, and yes, KSA IQs line up with Jordan, Egypt and the Maghreb in the low 80s on average.
This nightmare IS something that governments can address. KSA is beginning to take steps, but it’s dummies in a dumb land. Everything is rigid and slow.
If you clicked my link you’d get a real education. Smart Fraction populations explain 90% of the variation in GDP per capita. It explains why Germany and Japan can rise out of ruble and build first world infrastructure pronto. It takes Smart Fraction people to do it. Smart Fraction talent is more important that college degrees or export income.
You cannot get chimps or bonobos to function democratically. It’s strong chimp rule — usually two brothers. That is the organizational style that primitive man evolved with for countless centuries.
Only when the Smart Faction swells is it possible for distributed leadership and modern nationalism. There are absolutely no true republican-democracies in low IQ lands. You will instead see fakes. North Korea has the formalities of a constitutional republican-democracy. It’s a tragic-joke, of course.
Within the ummah it’s always been one form of despotism or another. The most liberal leader the ummah produced was an atheist: Attaturk. But he was an extreme despot, too.
When you don’t have enough leadership material humanity falls back on central authorities and despotism.
It is very relevant that the Romans defaulted back to despotism whenever they were under severe military threat. After it passed, the Republic picked up the pieces and carried on.
America greatly follows the Roman example: Lincoln, Wilson and FDR all received greatly augmented powers during wartime.
Mubarak is not liberal by American metrics. So what. He’s crazy liberal by Egyptian standards. He permits a politically active wife to campaign against female genital mutilation. This barbaric practice is endured by 90% of Egyptian teenage girls — still.
Mubarak is the primary defender of religious freedom. On this he stands virtually alone. The Copts LOVE him. He pulls 100% of their vote.
Mubarak is our number one ally in the war against islamism. He was shot right along with Sadat. Obviously, he survived. We have absolutely no replacement for Egypt.
Get real – realpolitik.
It is essential that we maintain friendly Suez Canal transits.
Dumping Mubarak because some left wing Americans hold opinions? It would be total folly.
As it stands, these college boys are setting liberalism back tremendously. They’re giving it a bad name. Their infantile demands are causing millions in their land to miss meals.
They don’t represent the man in the street. If the army was withdrawn the great unwashed would flow in and murder them to a man. They’re standing between the food bowl and their children. It’s that bad.
Get the ego boosting press out of there. They are stoking a tragedy. This is narcissism writ collective.
“The best we can hope for in Egypt is a military coup which supports a secular government. ”
From the polling data in looks like most Turkish citizens wouldn’t support a radical Islamic government.
People are we really so full of ourselves that we think this is a question of IQ?
It’s a question of WISDOM. When you have a nation where 50% of the country is essentially uneducated and under 30 year old, there is no wisdom. There is no judgement. There is no seasoning. There is only anger and exultation. NOT a good recipe for a new democratic government.
Think for a moment about how many people you know with huge IQs that you would not trust your children to for an afternoon. Wisdom is not the same thing as intelligence. To craft a stable nation you need both, but of the two, you need a much larger helping of wisdom than intelligence. After all the wise ones will ask or task the intelligent among them to solve the problems that require their gift.
Unfortunately, among humans, wisdom comes from experience and with age. The radicals in Egypt, and make no mistake this is not a democratic movement, have far too little wisdom.
If Mubarak falls without managing some sort of transition, the people of Egypt will live through a truly horrific experience, not that the alternative will be pleasant.
This is NOT a grass roots democratic movement. It is youth fed lies by radicals. Youth who, if they are successful, will find themselves in far worse shape.
When I see this happen yet again, I realize how incredibly lucky we were that our radicals were older men with the wisdom to craft a nation, and the humility not to try to gift themselves with ultimate power.
The last complete failure the democrats put in the presidency gave us Iran. This one will give us a middle east that will be terribly dangerous for the rest of the century. Assuming of course that the world lasts that long.
blert,
Thanks for the reply. This is the statement that interests me the most: “If the army was withdrawn the great unwashed would flow in and murder them to a man. They’re standing between the food bowl and their children.” If you are correct about this, there is hope that Egypt will not slide into the hands of the fundamentalists.
So, what do you think will be the ultimate position of the army? What do the generals believe to be in their best interests and the interests of Egypt? Will the generals squelch the street protests and support a restructuring of the relatively pro-western (and moderate towards Israel) ruling class?
WOW uncleFred! You are so right on. Wisdom is not the same as IQ. Experience and common sense trumps a PhD. from Harvard every time.
Great, cut to the chase post.
An interesting piece in today’s WSJ by Hernando de Soto (his real name; he lives and breathes!) on the lack of property rights in Egypt and the coils of Egyptian gov’t bureaucracy that emesh the ordinary Egyptian.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704358704576118683913032882.html?KEYWORDS=hernando+de+soto
Worth a read. Could be Egypt is less about IQ than it is about the great Western liberator, individual property rights.
What it will say is what the Muslim Brotherhood (which is Al Qaeda and Hamas) will say, which is that there should be a Taliban style government in those countries, or at best one like the Khomeini regime in Iran.
Banners from similar marches in Europe said it quite openly:
“death to all those who oppose islam”
“we don’t want freedom, we want islam”
along with chants calling for Jews to be put in gas chambers, and other such niceties.
And now it’s starting in Morocco as well. If you look at a map, that means they’re preparing to take over a swath of lan stretching from the Gulf of Aden to the Atlantic Ocean, and my guess is they want to make that a single “Islamic Union” or something along those lines, a start of establishing the Khaliphate.
uncleFred:
You’re right; high IQs do not equate to wisdom. We can see the “best and brightest” driving us off a cliff right before our eyes. That much is true.
But, nevertheless, IQ does matter. Without it, there is no hope at all. A low IQ country will inevitably slide into despotism. That has been the norm throughout human history.
Many of us, from a wide variety of perspectives, experiences, and back ground knowledge are coming to a similar conclusion: the excrement is approaching the rapidly turning blades of the fan.
Neo, you have a attracted an interesting, varied, and knowledgeable group of people to your blog. Thank you and thank all of you who post here. You give me food for thought.
rickl gets it.
Click on my link and get wisdom.
uncleFred posts in the manner one should expect of one who never had the unpleasant task of working continuously side by side with gentlemen with an IQ of 75-80.
Until you do so you will have no wisdom to understand the nature of the problem. A mental ability of IQ 80 denies that man almost everything you so take for granted. He has an extremely hard time learning even basic instructions such as: ” Take this cable and run it from here to there.”
When you come back the cable is knotted and twisted and ruined. It took him three times industry standard norms to produce the failure.
Case two: The man is instructed to stuff wire in a pipe in tempo with a wire-tugging machine. This machine pulls in a slow industry standard safe tempo. Anyone unable to stay up with it gets fired — of course. My man could not stuff light wire in a 1″ pipe without tangling it all and ruining the pull. But the wire was already neatly deployed at his feet without any tangles. It took three man-days to correct the matter.
It simply is not possible for a college educated man who never has to see the true face of stupidity to wrap his mind around just how crippled the performance of a slow mind is.
The above gentlemen would fit right in the middle of the IQ curve in Egypt — and the ummah generally. The average global IQ is 85-88 NOT 100.
One does not have to be an over educated myth-believing mush-headed Leftist from Ivy to be wise.
Wisdom comes from enough intelligence with grounded experiences to create an informed opinion not based upon entirely idealistic constructs proffered by dreamy college professors. That means that most of the population with an IQ above 106 has the ability to get wise. In America, that’s a huge — but minor — portion of the population.
In Egypt, the Smart Fraction of the population is too small. This means that from war-fighting to construction to government this critical fraction is overwhelmed by demand. It is the REAL reason why the Jewish army is always dominant. Israel has enough Smart Fraction Jews to meet her social, commercial, military and artistic demands.
When the intelligent fraction of a population gets that overwhelmed by need they devolve into a ‘parental’ despotism. This is blatantly so in tribal clans. One or two ‘wise’ men will end up being the brains/judgement for the whole clan. They have to, most of the extended family are inbred dummies.
To repeat: cousin marriage is the single most damaging practice against smart babies. It is rampant throughout the ummah. In Europe, health authorities are extremely alarmed. Even when other mates are near to hand — these immigrants continue to marry first cousins — even if they have to import them!
The health and crime stats are dreary reading. Yes, criminality and stupidity go hand in hand. It doesn’t take Columbo to catch these fellows.
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There really is a threshold below which voting is meaningless. And that threshold is way above 80. Mentally handicapped people are unable to discharge the proper judgement required in a democratic-republic. They don’t follow political events at all. They have shockingly blank memories of our collective history as a polity. They can’t comprehend the crafty writing of this or that ‘Proposition.’ On and on it goes.
Hence, despots can easily manipulate them into one vote, one time. We see this constantly EVERYWHERE IQs are down in the low 80s.
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My Nephew is in SA in the heart of HIV/AIDS trying to make a difference. The average IQ in his village is about 74.
Their health habits are so disturbing that I can’t post them here. You wouldn’t believe them. They are never reported in the popular press. Yeah, they’re disgusting beyond belief. They treat THEMSELVES like livestock.
It’s all he can do to hector them to stop projective coughing. He can’t get them to drink clean water. They won’t wash their hands. The village has all the joy of a death camp. Child mortality is through the roof.
ALL decisions of any note are 100% made by the big man. It’s like chimps and bonobos. Folks, this is where humanity spent most of its existence. When IQs are low it’s strong man rule every time. The fantasy that democracy is going to cure any of the problems of South Africa is just that.
Our educational system propagates a myth. The reality is that only AFTER enough citizens rise over the ‘magic’ IQ threshold of 106 can a society start to spread out collective management. Until that time it’s like phoning for talent that never picks up the receiver.
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If you click my link you’ll discover that per capita GDP does NOT correlate to ‘wisdom’ — only IQ. So knock off that sorry defensive posting.
( If I could ever team you up with an IQ 80 tradesmen your opinion would spin on a dime — within a week. So don’t talk like it’s wisdom we need. Don’t talk about the foolishness of naive college kids and air headed professors. They mean nothing in the scales that weigh. Idiotic Obama, yeah, I’ll give you that — he’s real damage.)
rickl, I’m with you. I did feel a tingle run up my leg when I saw Catspaw Couric and Anderson Vanderbilt get roughed up.
“Foreign news reporters have increasingly become targets of the attacks in Cairo as the Mubarak government teeters and over 100 reporters, including CNN’s Anderson Cooper and CBS anchor Katie Couric, have been menaced, forced off the road, shoved against fences, and physically assaulted.”
Couric looked really pissed. Cooper/Vanderbilt looked scared; he got punched a few times. If they know he’s a homosexual, he’d better hope none of the Islamic fundies get hold of him.
Brute force has a high I.Q of its own. Just ask the college students of Tiananman Square.
The intelligence problem is more of a cultural thing than that of close relations having children. It is a problem that takes generations to solve. I hope we have the time.
Blert says: “My Nephew is in SA in the heart of HIV/AIDS trying to make a difference. The average IQ in his village is about 74.
“Their health habits are so disturbing that I can’t post them here. You wouldn’t believe them. They are never reported in the popular press. Yeah, they’re disgusting beyond belief. They treat THEMSELVES like livestock.”
I echo this. I worked for a women’s reproductive health NGO that was active in the Third World, mostly sub-Saharan Africa. It was incredible. Ignorance, misogyny, stupidity, violence, and superstition were everywhere, and it was extremely difficult to get anything done. FORGET attaining the heights of even the poorest of American communities.
It made the scales fall from my eyes, I can tell you. I felt sorry for the people, but there was so little you could do for them, and a benevolent kind of paternalism was their only real hope. Speaking of which, didn’t Sierra Leone petition their former colonial masters to come back?
One of our “in-country” men, Brian, who’s worked in every hellhole on the planet, told me that Rwanda has only one cross-country paved road, and that was from the colonial days. But now it has deteriorated: No maintenance, from one border to the other, except in the towns where the macadam will “show.” In the countryside, it’s impassable in the wet season, with great stretches of pavement missing.
They really have no more idea of taking care of themselves than children. Seriously. Just look at the facts on the ground.
blert @ 12:22 am
Excellent post. I wish more Americans would visit Egypt so they can see what a backwards nation looks like.
Filthy. Unnecessary filth. Feh.
Most of the country is actually 10 miles or so wide. It absolutely depends on the Nile. It doesn’t grow enough food to feed its people. Its water supply is its sewer.
Ancient Egypt was a much better place than modern Egypt. There is not much one can say about modern Egypt except that the people are generally “nice.”
We’ll find out how nice they actually are when the food riots begin. Egypt should be a small population country, not one that depends on food imports.
The problem with these young revolutionaries is not that they have no solutions, but that most of the problems of the third world HAS NO SOLUTIONS at all. The choice is between manageble decline supevised by autoritarian rulers and abrupt collapse otherwise.
Egypt is in the grip of Malthusian dynamics, when population growth overwhelmed the land carring capacity. The only escape from this trap is modernization, which was made impossible by Islam, non-reformable by design. The same is true for most Arab countries and Black Africa, where traditional tribal society is just as hostile to modernization. Asian “tigers”, China and India have better prospects to avoid societal collapse, since Confucian moral is more open to change, industrious work and self-restraint. And India was significantly modernized by British colonialism. These advantages are absent in Arab countries.
Ancient Egypt also was challenged by famines, as we know from Biblical account about adventures of Yosef, son of Jakob. The solution was the centralized distribution of food and government ownership of arable land – that is, the despotic rule of Pharaons. The same applies now, since the lack of private property rights makes the transition to democracy all but impossible, even if we put aside Islam factor.
I hate to admit it, but as it looks now the lesser evil for pre-Enlightenment, traditionalist societies is enlightened despotism (absolutism), which can oversee their modernization and efficiently suppress more vicious popular movements like Nazi, Communist or Islamist totalitarian ideologies. I hope Western politicians will drop their bone-headed pursuit of democracy where it is doomed to be a reactionary force and will support progressive dictatorships where they have more chances to be vechicles of modernization.
“”We’re in danger of losing our own republican government by lowering our average IQ””
Rickl
IQ doesn’t quite describe it. Because some of the highest IQ’s we have are liberals with incredibly ignorant ideas. And you can’t just lower a national IQ in a couple generations. But you can under or miseducate.
I’m with unclefred on this. Wisdom coming from a well rounded life experience, punctuated with a curiosity driven by a healthy work ethic that demands an annoying alarm clock seems to be what’s missing.
We often forget or ignore the important role of Christianity and more specifically Protestantism in economic development.
I had a news photographer friend who had studied and was well travelled in the Middle East explain it to me before the Iraq war, “Dan, anybody with any brains got out of there a long time ago”.
With respect to IQ and good sense the late William F. Buckley once said “I’d rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.”
To be fair those 400 people would probably have an average IQ of at least 100 and they would include some smart people.
“To be fair those 400 people would probably have an average IQ of at least 100 and they would include some smart people.”
Well, a lot would be Jewish.
Aaron, Abramovich, etc. etc.
Looking at the head lines on the Drudge report this morning, I am asking myself who is Obama, and what does he really want?
The systematic destruction of the United States of America is what I am thinking, at this point in time.
“”The systematic destruction of the United States of America is what I am thinking, at this point in time.””
Br549
And his supporters apparently oblivious as their emotions feel satisfied at how the unfair successful are taking it on the chin. A class warfare hysteria with an OJ Simpson mindset. If they can’t have America, nobody will have America.
SteveH: I don’t think it has much to do with IQ, either. I don’t think IQ necessarily measures what it purports to measure (native intelligence), especially if the state of education in a country is poor. I also think it’s clear that there’s a lot more than IQ going on, since highly intelligent people can be very unintelligent about all sorts of things unconnected with academia and book learning. Wisdom may be a better word. But I would say common sense is the best of all.
Ahhhh. Had an epiphany. Again, thanks to Sergey. I was talking to my friendly Arab corner store owner. He said, “too many people.” I didn’t press him, but I didn’t make the connection not having the personal experience of what Egypt is and that it is in “the grip of Malthusian dynamics, when population growth overwhelmed the land carring capacity.”
That is the puppet. Now, where is the puppeteer?
This may seem like a benign or somewhat facile observation, but it was very disturbing to watch the “peaceful, democracy-loving” protesters violently attack the camels and horses that the military were riding through the crowds. There were numerous images of these animals being pelted with rocks and street garbage. Where was the outcry from PETA over this one? Anyone remember the famous letter from PETA head Ingrid Newkirk to Yassar Arafat complaining of the use of poor innocent donkeys for suicide bombings? She didn’t condemn the bombings or trying to blow up human Israelis, she just told him not to use animals to do it. The objectives of the Egyptians are both skewed and unclear, and the US Left is just as screwed up.
Hard to believe, Promethea, isn’t it, that Egypt was the breadbasket of the Roman Empire? Now Egypt is the world’s largest grain importer.
The problem with your theory, Blert, is that the Pharohs ran the country pretty well, and for a long time — and they married their sisters! And cousin-marriage is very high among Jews: my mother’s parents were third cousins, my father-in-law’s parents were first cousins and there were other first cousin marriages in his family.
Much as I hate to say it, the answer to why the Arab world is the way it is, is Islam.
Richard Saunders…
Sorry to say modern science has determined that cousin marriage is ruinous without a doubt. If you doubt the impact of excessive in-breeding: The Prince of Wales. QED.
While you may think you’ve got me on the Pharaonic schtick the fact is that the in-breeding caused dynastic collapse time and again. Then fresh genes came in and another run of luck. You lose.
WRT Jews, more specifically the Ashkenazim: they suffer terribly from a slew of genetic brain disorders: Tay-Sachs, et. al. Not surprisingly modern American Jews are out marrying at a tremendous clip. The result is a regeneration of life without these terrible afflictions.
In-breeding has been studied ad nauseam by agricultural colleges. It applies across all species. It’s one of the great concerns WRT our mono-culturural crops. Look what happened to Ireland — the famine.
Health authorities have beat this to death. All over Europe they are alarmed at the defective minds that are consequent to cousin-marriage.
Japan and Korea used to have significant genetic over concentration. However post war cultural and economic changes have permitted marriage outside the village. Taken together with better nutrition these peoples have seen their grandchildren explode upward a foot and a half in two generations! I’ve seen countless family get togethers in Honolulu. The pattern is consistent.
The same thing has happened to Jews. No longer genetically isolated they are now smart AND tall.
Cousin-marriage is ONE THING governments can work against. Better pre-natal health is another thing governments can work for.
The MB is not on board with any modernity. Their world outlook is still rooted in Hitlerism and Qutbism. Look at the graduating photos from Cairo University. The babes used to look like they were in Tel Aviv — 50 years ago. Now they look like they graduated from the University of Taliban.
When the Binet test is replaced by a wisdom test — tell the world. Until then falling back on ‘wisdom’ is an intellectual cop-out. You’re really saying that a target audience should hold to ones own values. That’s the only kind of wisdom you’d give credence. How in heck can that be a stable metric?
Idiots can never be wise. You need IQ first — and then, with grace, you might obtain wisdom.
If this were not so bonobos would be annotating the Iliad.