August 11th, 2012

And Romney’s VP is…

…(big drum roll) Paul Ryan of Wisconsin.

And of course, right on schedule with hardly a pause for breath, the attacks begin (my impression is that there used to be a little grace period for the new nominee, but maybe I’m looking at the past with rose-colored glasses).

I happen to like Ryan. I think he’s smart, serious, and squeaky-clean. I have no idea if he’ll enhance the ticket’s electability, because at this point the election seems to be mostly about whether the American people will believe Obama’s audacious lies. That issue transcends Obama or this particular election year, I’m afraid; it’s about the electorate itself and its ability to assimilate and then critically evaluate information, impressions, and character.

121 Responses to “And Romney’s VP is…”

  1. Stark Says:

    Rep. Ryan is probably the best pick possible. Now the race is a more clear choice between limited government Vs the EU style of quasi-socialism.
    R&R is a good ticket.

  2. Kurt Says:

    The instant attacks on Ryan are in some respects a good thing, I think. It reminds me of the saying I’ve seen repeated numerous times on conservative blogs this year: if you’re not getting flak, you’re not over the target.

    The left hates Ryan because he is able to clearly and persuasively make a case about the nation’s fiscal woes. Assuming Romney lets him make that case and doesn’t try to rein him in, the Obama team could find itself having to play defense pretty soon. All of the budgets Obama has presented in the past two years have had ridiculous deficits, ridiculous revenue assumptions, and all have gone down to massive, bipartisan defeat when they were voted on. Ryan can offer effective and persuasive rejoinders to Obama’s assertions that all we need to solve the deficit problem is for “everyone to pay their fair share.” Ryan knows the numbers and can explain that even if taxes were doubled, we’d still have massive deficits because the spending on things like entitlements and interest on the debt is the biggest chunk of the federal budget.

    Although picking Ryan may have the effect of making it harder for Romney to pick up Florida where the Democrats will be running in full “mediscare” mode, it might also put the upper midwest much more in play, and Romney might be able to pull out wins in Wisconsin and Michigan.

  3. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    One news story today said that a Democratic campaign organization had already released an almost 300 page negative dossier on Ryan this morning–I suppose that they had such dossiers ready for whoever was the pick.

    Among other things, I look forward to Ryan cutting Biden to pieces in any VP debate, which I presume that Biden will now try to make some excuse–perhaps in a clinic renewing his hair-plugs?–to duck.

  4. expat Says:

    I thought it was interesting how Romney taked about character when describing Ryan. It was a stark contrast to the way Team Obama has been runnning things. Maybe people will get sick of the childish mudslinging from Obama’s flunkies.

  5. Charles Says:

    One thing that popped into my mind as I watched the announcement – Paul Ryan is young.

    Hopefully, that will appeal to the young who were clearly in Obama’s camp last time (and boy, did those recent college grads screw themselves over, didn’t they?). That even if they are not so gung-ho on Obama, maybe they will not just sit it out this time, but will actually vote for “the young guy.”

    Or, this is just projection and wishful thinking on my part.

  6. Curtis Says:

    As the WWP (World’s Worst Prognosticator) I’m very happy about this choice since I see a chance to lose that title, having predicted a landslide against Obama. Ryan, at least in one scenario, could make that happen.

    There is only one way a landslide can happen: millions of “takers” do not bother to vote. (If they do bother, it’s going to be close.) But Ryan might help them stay home. Since they are emotional voters and vote for whomever appears to have the most “positive energy,” Ryan’s youth, energy, articulate expression, looks, family, and vitality speak well that “hope and change” lies elsewhere than with Obama.

    Meanwhile, the selection instantly invigorated the tea party.

  7. Curtis Says:

    As a hopeful note, Mediscare hasn’t proved to be fruitful, and, on another level, I lived in Florida and many retired people there don’t need Medicare. They have manisons, eg. Naples, West Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale, South Beach, Pelican Bay, Indian River Shores, Palm Beach, Highland Beach, Boca Pointe . . .

  8. T Says:

    Kurt wrote: “. . . picking Ryan may have the effect of making it harder for Romney to pick up Florida . . . .” and yet Rasmussen shows Ryan’s favorability among seniors (Age 65+, read much of Florida) as 52% approve / 29% disapprove. This choice may make it easier for Romney to win Florida. Ryan’s popularity plus Rubio stumping in Florida is a double barrel blast at the Obama machine.

    Expect that Ryan will probably deliver Wisconsin, and possibly Michigan, Ohio and help in Iowa. My personal belief haas been that PA goes Romney as well. The Ryan choice as VP seems like a direct in your face response to Obama’s “you didn’t build it” meme.

  9. T Says:

    I should add that as a Gingrich backer in the primaries I have been pleased with Romney’s campaign so far. He has managed to tread water in the face of a substantial and scurrilous Democrat onslaught. There have been gaffes. There always will be, but Romney has done nothing to surpass “you didn’t build that” even with the press working overtime to make it seems as though he had.

    I suspect that the big guns will come out after the convention and we should be in for a real show from both campaigns for the remaining 60+ days of the convention Order your popcorn now—avoid the rush.

  10. Sangiovese Says:

    The choices in this election could not be more clear. Will Americans choose to be Adults or children? The Adults take responsibility for their futures and take action to ensure a viable future. Ryan represents this mindset. The children just want more handouts and goodies from Daddy (Big Government), even if Daddy’s credit cards are maxed out.

    If Romney loses, we are doomed as a nation. It means that Americans have made the complete transition from WWII self-reliance to the modern-day gimme-gimmme-gimmme demands of 1/2 of the electorate. I will never forget the mother of 15 (yes, 15!) who complained that SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MY CHILDREN! She wanted even more handouts than she was already receiving. At that moment, I know that the country my father fought for in WWII was in peril.

  11. M J R Says:

    The electorate may be divided into certain constitutent groups:

    - Those who will vote right-leaning no matter what (nincompoops like Peggy Noonan in 2008 notwithstanding)

    - Those who will vote left-leaning no matter what (why aren’t there ever any analogous “nincompoops” on the left?)

    - Those who will reliably vote against a rich heterosexual white guy nominee (this is actually an amalgamation of many groups)

    - Those who don’t really pay attention to news, but who catch enough to be taken in by lies and smears, most often courtesy of the mainstream media

    - Those whose eyes are open, whose minds are (genuinely) open, who may not like Romney, but who can figure out that we’re going to go the way of Greece, France, Spain, etc. if President Barack Hussein Obama is reelected

    (If I’ve left anyone out, my sincere apologies [ smile ].)

    My fear is that the middle three groups outnumber the first and fifth groups by a comfortable margin.

    To stay on topic for this thread, I will add that it may very well make no difference whether Mitt Romney chose Paul Ryan or Sarah Palin or Lady Gaga as his running mate.

  12. Occam's Beard Says:

    The choices in this election could not be more clear. Will Americans choose to be Adults or children?

    Yep. You refer to this choice in the fiscal context, but it’s also true in the cultural one. Will Americans choose AS adults or as children? Will they choose on the basis of marketing, of (erstwhile) “coolness” or “hipness,” or on the basis of proven track record, prudence, and competency? In short, will they choose an American Idol or a chief executive?

  13. sergey Says:

    Popular culture made millions of modern people in USA and everywhere to think like teenagers or children. For them every celebrity, political or other, must look like American Idol.

  14. M J R Says:

    . . . Or is it as simple as, which group is, by now, more numerous in the electorate? –

    - Those who feed at the trough of the U.S. Treasury, or
    - Those who foot the bill and pay into the U.S.Treasury.

    Isn’t the latter group under 50 percent now? Is it all over for the grand experiment known as the U S of A?

  15. Occam's Beard Says:

    Is it all over for the grand experiment known as the U S of A?

    Tell you November 7th.

  16. Curtis Says:

    True, Sergey, but popular culture also made millions of people in USA reject thinking of teenagers and children. The alternative viewpoint is roaring back.

    People do not forget. The WWII massacre of Serbians was never forgotten. The trick is to remember and effect a solution which is permanent and does not become merely another cycle in the round of violence. This is why Israel is so important and so hated. Israel attempts to break the cycle.

    Remember Srebrenica and the massive lie that muslims were massacred in the Bosnia war? That one is so rich in luciferian and aliskyian inversion. The same tactic now comes with Obama and his machine. They are going for the big time, the new world order, the whole planet. We shall expose them, defeat them, and convert them.

  17. MissJean Says:

    I like that Ryan has more experience in Washington than our Commander in Chief, so they can’t cast him as a rube. I remember Ryan explaining the exact cost of health care in what? 2010? and the President started stuttering when it came time to respond. At the time, I thought, “The President can’t keep up with the numbers you’re clearly explaining, because he doesn’t know the actual cost of his health care plan.”

  18. Brad Says:

    Well, to provide a dissenting view:
    “The U.S has 308 million people.
    *40 million: Age 65+
    *78 million boomers ((born between 1946 and 1964)
    Medicare and Social Security will become far more important than the economy. We want the benefits we were promised and for which we’ve worked our ass*s off for 40 + years.

    Not a chance a ticket with Paul Ryan will get our vote.

    Romney-Ryan FAIL!”

    To be fair to TL, they’ve never taken Ryan seriously there – when he’s been referred to in the past its always with the idea he was too polarizing and unelectable to be selected by the Mittster. Haw! Guess they were wrong.

  19. Brad Says:

    As for me?
    How will I vote?
    Well, it’s either going to be an independent or Paul. The only reason I can even think of to vote for Mitt is that Obama has a declared a low level war on the male white working class (which I belong to), and to a lesser extent female white working class people. It’s cultural and legal (changes to policies at the Justice department, how that department and the FBI have been used, how he chooses to use his bully pulpit in regards to race and sex, messing with Title IX to apply it to the STEM subjects) and thus very much not a declared war, but its there.

    This country is already doomed, it’s already gone, and Mitt will make absolutely no difference on that front. The real thing for me is whether Obama is enough of a threat to me personally that I should vote Mitt in self preservation.

  20. texexec Says:

    Brad…Ryan’s plan for Medicare says anyone born before 1955 gets to keep their current Medicare benefits. Guess they’ll be voting for Romney/Ryan according to your analysis.

    FWIW, you’re too damned negative.

  21. texexec Says:

    …and their Social Security benefits.

  22. Curtis Says:

    Is there Social Security without an economy?

    Will everyone pay all their money in taxes for Medicare and demand full employment and healthcare?

    Wake up call coming soon.

    People can only live with insanity so long. Then they will come begging, begging, for the tea party to take control. Because instinctivily, they know the tea party will follow rules and procedure and perhaps show some compassion.

    Socialist masters will not. We have read their terrorist language and how they believe mass killing is neccesary for compassion. (Reference Marx, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao, Che)

    Socialist masters use parents against their own children. This truth will be faced by the boomer generation; when each of them lay dying and tortured, they will curse Obama, FDR, Wilson, and Brad–the bitch of losers.

    The duped will repent of their sin and turn with fury upon their captors, those who lied and distracted and threatened. Finally, upon their death, with nothing to lose, they will not only hold to account, but find all the handlers, teachers, politicians, and treasoner’s and demand vengeance.

    Make your mark well, now because it is the mark we will remember and find.

    You declare war. We accept.

  23. Curtis Says:

    Obama hates Romney because unlike him, he was never good enough to succeed. Obama hate Ryan because of this:

    Yeah, booyyyyyy! 9/11!

  24. foxmarks Says:

    The experiment known as USA achieved terminal velocity in 2008. No matter who is steering the plane, nobody can move the mountain.

    From the first wave of chatter, it looks like Ryan has only eased the hearts of those dutiful conservatives who were going to vote Romney anyway.

    The liberty faction never bought Ryan’s budget plan. It didn’t actually address anything of substance, and put the real pain in the out years, when it promised hoped to get to balance by 2040. They have a long list of Ryan’s record as a typical big-government Republican who squawks like a small-government conservative.

    The Progressives don’t seem particularly agitated. They’re drooling over the gift of Florida, since Ryan wants to cut Medicare and push granny off the cliff. They say the choice just shows how extreme the TEA people have made the GOP.

    The TEA people are in the group that was voting for Romney anyway.

    Now, y’all around here will have tendency to argue that Ryan doesn’t want to push granny over, and the lefties are despicable for saying so. To that, I remind you that most votes are won by impressions, not by logic.

    Neo writes that the election is about whether or not people believe Barry’s lies. I say it is about whether they like Romney enough to turn out and vote for him. For all the times I’ve heard this election is about the economy, I heard many more times about social and posturing issues. Feelings trump sense.

    Ryan might be more likeable than Romney (a low bar), but his brand is already poisoned by the budget debates.

    I encourage all y’all to focus on your Senate and House races. Play where you can win.

  25. Wolla Dalbo Says:

    Well, just watched the coverage of today’s three Romney/Ryan rallies, and I gotta say that Ryan was a very articulate, forceful, and pointed in his remarks speaker, and that Romney really seemed energized, spoke the best I have ever heard him speak–he was much more relaxed, articulate, hard-hitting, energetic, even approaching charismatic.

    Ryan has injected a welcome burst of youth and energy and optimism into the campaign and Romney is obviously jazzed.

    I think that Ryan is just what the Romney campaign needed.

    I also note the news that, just in the few hours since the pick of Ryan was announced, the Romney campaign collected $2 million dollars in donations.

  26. Curtis Says:

    Your bugers in your nose trump your brains in you head, foxy.

    bye bye.

    And I want a thank you note and a royalty check because we save you.

  27. Curtis Says:

    $2,000 million.

  28. holmes Says:

    The doomsayers are out in force. Foxmarks- I wish you would adjust your attitude a bit, though I think a lot of it is bravado. Why focus on anything if we’re doomed? Eat, drink, be merry until the bill comes due! right?

  29. baklava Says:

    I’m disappointed in fox and brad. Did you guys smoke too much weed?

    Now I never attack personally but you negative ass wipes have me pausing while cooking dinner for my daughters.

    Get off your ass and convince people to vote for r&r.

  30. baklava Says:

  31. n.n Says:

    … and to choose liberty in lieu of submission with benefits. The American right is remarkably selfless when voting. Of course, it goes with the philosophy, but it is certainly not guaranteed.

  32. parker Says:

    Ryan’s plan is kicking the can in tiny increments, but Obama-Reid-Pelosi-MSM fervently desire to kick the can 10,000 yards into the abyss. I’ll take tiny increments for now.

    Brad & Foxmarks, we’re on the same page, but I’m probably older than the 2 of you and I’m willing to take a small victory over a huge defeat. I agree we are dancing on extremely thin ice, but what do you propose? Revolution is no one’s friend and a deep depression will be the ruin of this nation and usher in fascism.

    IMO its a matter of slowly reversing course and stepping back from the abyss. I have 4 grandchildren, I’m thinking of them, not you or me. I want them to have a chance. I’ll take a tiny victory now and work for a slow transformation. A vote for Romney-Ryan is a vote against BHO, a vote for a third party is a vote for BHO. It can not be more clear. Hissy fits may stroke your ego but the only benefit goes to BHO.

  33. NeoConScum Says:

    EXCELLENT choice for Mitt. Ryan is known as the smartest guy in the House. He’s rock-ribbed conservative and super-bright, verbally nimble, combative and a non-reticent tough guy.

  34. thomass Says:

    ” because at this point the election seems to be mostly about whether the American people will believe Obama’s audacious lies.”

    I think the fact that Ryan was able to touch various radioactive / third rail topics without being destroyed plays well into the above. Ryan seems to actually be able to communicate with people despite being demagogued (see granny and cliff examples). This makes him a great choice. He can explain to people why Obama’s lies are lies… not everyone knows about them btw (if you watched network news; would you?)… if it goes according to plan, despite and/or, through the media filter.

  35. thomass Says:

    Brad Says:

    “Not a chance a ticket with Paul Ryan will get our vote.”

    Lefty CW is also usually pretty far off. In this case; the truth is if you want to have medicare it must be reformed. Otherwise; the wheels are going to come of the bus (ah law Greece) and you’ll get very much less when the US becomes both a poorer country and one very much in debt. Ryan, at least, can make that case… and make it well.

    There are a lot of options to fix entitlements. The longer we wait, the fewer options we will have.

  36. thomass Says:

    Curtis Says:

    “Obama hates Romney because unlike him, he was never good enough to succeed. Obama hate Ryan because of this:”

    Reality is Obama will hate anyone that is not his brand of leftist.
    We pegged that about him last time around. That he is ‘glass jaw Obama’ who gets mad and angry when people disagree with him.

    I hope Romney and Ryan use that btw…

  37. nyo Says:

    I can’t help but feel that Romney is positioning himself thus wise, …look we had the Republican debates and you chose me, now I’m giving you the VP you want, if I lose in November then don’t blame me — like many blamed McCain for losing the last election. Ryan is an advanced version of Palin … but is that the right model to be replicating improvements for is the question. The message for the 2016 election might be tact center. I’m opened minded to Paul on domestic economic issues, I hope he’s not as incurious about foreign policy as was Palin.

  38. Ed Bonderenka Says:

    Like Parker said.
    Grow up.
    The Founding Fathers manged to compromise to get rid of the king.
    They didn’t all get what they wanted and we got a horrible Civil War later.
    But it was much later and the alternative was no union at all.

  39. Occam's Beard Says:

    nyo, I think he’s positioning himself to make fiscal probity the centerpiece of the election, and that’s a brilliant decision.

  40. Brad Says:


    Those were not my words, those were words I quoted from the owner of Talkleft.
    I’m not a boomer, I’m Generation X.

    As far as this election, it’s just really a case of who you want to violate the Constitution and how you want it done. Both candidates are also – in the end – owned by large corporate and other donors. Giving me a choice of corruptions isn’t really giving me a choice at all. While I can promise I know I won’t vote for Obama the only reason I’m even considering wavering for Romney in the slightest is that Obama has been so over the top with his racial, sexual, and class warfares that I can’t help but notice and feel hated and threatened. Both Obama and Romney are going to screw me economically and both will end up (no matter how its done) dismantling large parts of the social safety net. The difference is, Romney won’t mess with my personal life and my chances in whatever job market remains as much as Obama, who loves to use middle class and poor white males as his favorite whipping boys. That’s it. That’s all that can “recommend” the Mittster. He also (while not giving any of the power back) might not abuse the Unconstitutional War and and other powers the second Bush and Obama have done so much to expand.

    Lesser of two evils, and no reason to think it will get any better.
    Here’s how I feel about Mitt:

    And if I vote for this corrupt a*ssh*le -purely out of self-protection, mind you – I fully expect to hear I “endorsed” his policies when I voted for him.

  41. Steve Says:

    The forecast for doom and gloom assumes the economy follows a linear path (ie, entitlement reform and energy independence are impossible). The only obstacle is political will. If the elites want higher taxes to pay for government spending, then do as Glenn Reynolds suggests and give them what they want. Raise taxes selectively. Make sure Hollywood, the media and blue-state elites feel the full force of the taxes and regulations they want to push on everyone else. Then push for energy independence. Open up exploration. Create a huge job boom in the energy industry. At the same time take first steps in enacting entitlement reforms. Start with Obamacare. Give every state a waiver. Repeal it if possible. Then tackle federal benefits. Why should federal employees get better benefits than the people who pay for them? I think the public will reward wise decisions and real political courage just as they did for Reagan.

  42. parker Says:

    Each of us will do one of 4 things in November: vote for BHO, vote for RH, vote for a third party, or stay home. Those who insist on riding their ideological high horse and vote 3rd party should come clean and vote for BHO. Those who are already planning to stay home have given into despair….. slit your wrists and be done with it.

  43. T Says:

    Foxmarks wrote: “. . .The Progressives don’t seem particularly agitated. They’re drooling over the gift of Florida . . . ” only in their blinkered myopia. As I mentioned above Ryan is intensely popular with seniors 65+ (any of THOSE in Florida?).

    As for the small steps several commenters mentioned above let us remember that many of the founding fathers wanted to eliminate slavery but also needed unanimity in establishing this new republic. The compromise, the 3/5′s rule. Establish the republic first, abolish the slave trade next and then finally abolish slavery.

    For those who would disparage positive incremental change, remember: The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

  44. tom Says:

    Love your insights Neo. Thanks!!

  45. DonS Says:

    Paul? Does he have a chance to win? Have fun throwing your vote away.

    Besides, Paul is a piss poor choice. If he had any sense he would have withdrawn and endorsed Johnson.

  46. davisbr Says:

    Another ABR in the primaries Palinista conservative here.

    …but admittedly, I’ve become slightly more positive than merely resigned to Romney as I’ve learned more about him, and watched his campaign’s responses (including his usual recovery from the inevitable stumbles).

    I think he’s a good guy. I also don’t think he’s owned by corporate interests btw (he’s got enough money to insulated himself …unlike the present inhabitant of the office Romney is seeking) …not that that is necessarily a bad thing (IMHO).


    As for Ryan? – I approve-APPROVE-APPROVE.

    I’m wondering at this point if I might actually become, well, enthusiastic.

    There is that distinct possibility.

    I became aware of it when I realized I’d googled for an RR2012 bumper sticker lol.

  47. Memphis Steve Says:

    I think the electorate knows that he’s a liar, but he had bought off enough of them with the Community Restoration Act, free birth control for women only, etc, that those still voting for him are doing so with the full knowledge that he’s a liar and a crook. They don’t care. As long as their free ride continues they’ll burn the country to the ground for the rest of us.

  48. kaba Says:

    Brad and foxmark, I don’t believe seniors and boomers are a monolithic voting block by any means. I’m eligible for Social Security now and will be eligible for Medicare in two years. I would gladly be willing to forgo either if the crew in Washington will just make an honest start in resolving our budget issues.

    I think there are many seniors who recognize that we are pillaging the future and condemning our children and grandchildren to dismal lives if we don’t change our current practices. I have written my congress critter and encouraged him to cut my benefits, but please, don’t stop there.

  49. foxmarks Says:

    It’s the same pattern. I write the collapse is inevitable and y’all attack my intellect or my character. Never does anyone articulate a path which avoids collapse. You do realize that the lauded Ryan budget takes 25+ years to eliminate the annual deficit, IF AND ONLY IF all future Congresses adhere to it, AND his growth projections are met.

    I’m not the one with mental deficiencies here.

    Since some of you might be new, and others have forgotten, my strategy is to vote for Obama *because* he is the worst choice. Let’s get it over with. If you want to argue incrementalism or some other kind of hope that Romney can live up to the legend, show me some numbers. Take out a napkin and show me how the economy can grow at all without debt being added to the system somewhere.

    You can’t. The math doesn’t work.

    But I understand how hard it is to accept our economic mortality. So let’s pretend Romney is something other than a bankster tool. What’s the electoral map that gets him into the White House? 50% in the national polls doesn’t translate into 270 Electoral votes.

    Y’all sound like Hope and Change.

  50. foxmarks Says:

    Yeah, I know, NY Times, biased, blah blah.

    Mr. Ryan’s controversial budget, which polls poorly, will obviously get much more attention than it had previously. The fate of the presidential race and the fate of Congressional races may become more closely tied together. Mr. Obama will no longer have to stretch to evoke the specter of Congress and its 15 percent approval rating. With Mr. Ryan on the opposing ticket, he will be running against a flesh-and-blood embodiment of it.

    The GOP is the Stupid Party, and Romney’s campaign is always in reactive mode. You might as well hope that Wiley E. Coyote catches the Roadrunner.

  51. RandomThoughts Says:

    foxmarks, …my strategy is to vote for Obama *because* he is the worst choice. Let’s get it over with.

    That’s like being diagnosed with cancer, and deciding to treat it by drinking strychnine to “get it over with.”

    Please tell me you were attempting sarcasm there. Lie to me if you must.

  52. texexec Says:

    Gee, I wish I had no mental deficiencies so I could understand the brilliance of Foxmarks.

    I’m not gonna bother to give you your numbers, but I AM smart enough to know that the first step in having a possibility of turning the USA around is stopping Obama, Reid, and Pelosi.

    What are YOUR numbers and plan when the USA collapses? No generalities please…I need a spreadsheet with your exact predictions.

  53. Rob Says:

    The choice of Ryan is hugely important. I like Ryan. I like him a lot. My hope is that he will come to define the ticket for most voters.

    Romney himself is a non-entity. No one in the party (or outside of it, except perhaps for his accountant) takes him seriously. He is rarely cogent, and when he is you don’t know whether he’s telling you the truth or what’s politically expedient.

    Ryan suffers from none of these defects. He’s a great choice for VP. Is he the best possible choice? Who knows? But he’s certainly a good choice.

  54. jack Says:

    Win or lose. This ticket is so much better than McCain/Palin. At least R/R will take their case for a future american to the voting public. R/R won’t be saying … Obama is a nice guy … blah blah blah. R/R will be hitting hard with facts and figures about US economic direction. Ryan is the man for that job. If the voting public reelects Obama … then so be it. They deserve him and what they get.

  55. expat Says:


    Powerline posted this speech in which Ryan talks about Churchill:

    You will love it.


    You are right. Some of us Boomers went to school when they still taught arithmetic (and history and grammar).

  56. Steve Says:

    foxmarks, I am sure the plan is to devalue the dollar by whipping up inflation. As usual the rich will be fine but the middle class and poor will suffer. You’re thinking too linearly about outcomes.

  57. Don Carlos Says:

    I used to be a Romney doubter, despite Neo’s strong support of him, but over the past three months that has changed. Mitt is a chess player, undoubtedly a good one, IMHO, who sees moves ahead. That is shown in his business successes-he was not a day trader.

    Today’s public representations by RR do not precisely predict their future actions, if elected despite the undoubted massive Dem vote fraud; today’s representations give us insights into their potential future decisions.

    I am on board.

  58. J.J. formerly Jimmy J. Says:

    I like Ryan. He knows his stuff when it comes to fiscal matters. His takedown of Obamacare in front of Obama was a classic example of bearding the lion in his den. (Linked by Curtis at 5:41pm.) He can make complex financial issues understandable and that’s a big plus. I think many independents have a vague feeling of unease about fiscal matters but don’t understand them. Ryan can clear up their thinking. Onward. Only 86 days to go.

  59. Occam's Beard Says:

    His takedown of Obamacare in front of Obama was a classic example of bearding the lion in his den.

    J.J., turkeys don’t have beards.

  60. J.J. formerly Jimmy J. Says:

    O.B., Good point!

  61. J.J. formerly Jimmy J. Says:

    Wretchard at Belmont Club has some interesting observations:
    “The counterargument is that by picking Paul Ryan, Romney has decisively broken from Obama’s policy path. The selection of Ryan means Romney is no longer running as Obama-lite. He’s bet that the guys in no-man’s-land don’t want Government Cheese. They want a real job. They want a real future. They want to be citizens of the greatest country on earth again.”

    Read the whole thing:

  62. T Says:

    “turkeys don’t have beards”

    And on Nov 6th I hope that said turkey also finally discovers he can’t fly (with a hat tip to Mr Carlson and all the staff at WKRP)

  63. Occam's Beard Says:

    You’ve got to wonder what young Soetoro is going to do with the rest of his life if (God willing) he loses.

    So what do you do when you’re 50ish and done? Do the full Carter, and make yourself a pain in the ass to every subsequent Administration?

    Somehow it’s hard to see Barry doing that. He craves adulation, and that lone wolf schtick doesn’t attract acolytes.

    General Secretary of the UN? Maybe, but that entails a lot of fruitlessly grinding out policy details that everyone else will ignore, and precious little golf.

    Political commentator for MSNBC/ CNN/ Pravda/ Daily Worker, insofar as those can be distinguished? Maybe.

    Head of the V.I. Lenin Foundation, or some such?

    Let’s just hope Soros has kept up the matching contributions to Barry’s 401(k), but I wouldn’t count on it.

  64. texexec Says:

    Steve said:
    “foxmarks, I am sure the plan is to devalue the dollar by whipping up inflation. As usual the rich will be fine but the middle class and poor will suffer. You’re thinking too linearly about outcomes.”

    I agree that probably the way out of this mess is to inflate the dollar. Is that fair to middle and poor classes and right? Nope, but if it’s done kinda slowly, it can work. I’m old enough to remember being able to buy a candy bar or a Coke for 5 cents…and a good hamburger for 20 cents. Now look at the prices! During this time, I have been pretty much in the middle class, and I haven’t suffered.

    If you see inflation happening, take matters into your own hands. Don’t just sit on cash…buy things that will appreciate with inflation…precious metals, agricultural land, some commodities (especially ones that China has to buy), etc. Try hard to become your own boss.

    You don’t have to sit on your hands and take what the powers that be dish out.

    Remember…it took 80+ years to get into this mess (starting with FDR). The problems won’t be solved in a flash.

    Vote to turn things around…be watchful…. careful …and proactive.

  65. Teri Pittman Says:

    Foxmark must not be a Boomer, as I heard that same argument in favor of voting for Nixon. How did that work out? Do you honestly think that people have forgotten just how awful this economy is? Do you think it is getting better or are we in recession again? Do you think people are so stupid that they don’t understand how Obamacare takes money from Medicare and lowers payments? What good will insurance do you when doctors won’t accept it?

    I know of one Obama supporter in my household that is voting against him this time around. That’s all it will take, being willing to vote against Obama. And all it will take to do that is having someone you can vote for that makes some effort to change the current direction of this country and its economy. This is not the campaign of a successful incumbent.

    “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.” A. Lincoln

  66. kaba Says:

    Barry won’t go quietly. I’m betting he’ll do everything in his power to impede and discredit a Romney/Ryan Administration. And in 2014 he’ll begin gathering forces for another run in 2016. I don’t think his arrogance and ideology will allow him to do anything but that.

  67. Occam's Beard Says:

    kaba, you think so? There’s nothing more pathetic than someone trying to make a comeback after they’re done, and they’re the only ones not to realize that fact. In Barry’s case, that would be like fellow fraudsters Milli Vanilli giving it one more go.

    Hard to see Soros plumping for another bid, assuming Soros is still infecting the earth then.

  68. RickZ Says:

    Occam, Regarding the position of Secretary General of the UN, an “appointee may not be any citizen of the Security Council’s five permanent members.” So, unexpectedly, that leaves Oebama out. But with our Choomer-in-Chief, he’ll just flip over to either his Indonesian or, more likely, Kenyan passport to crassly be forced to humbly accept the position. A position which, when you think about it, is really the culmination of the sum total of his affirmative-action, failing upward beyond all Peter Principle rules life, considering what a useless, deadly and expensively wasteful and corrupt organization the Den of Thieves on Turtle Bay are.

    As for the campaign, the gloves need to come off. Owebama needs to be hit — and hit hard — on every one of his ‘gaffes’, on every lawbreaking policy he enacted by fiat. No lies, just the cold hard truth of the totalitarian heart which lurks beneath the media’s genial veneer they knobslobberingly polished on that turd. Owebama must be criticized for his record, as this is the first campaign in which Owebama actually has a record which he has to defend, and for normal people would be indefensible. Of course, for Owebama, his ‘you didn’t build that’ ode to communism shows that what he’s done has been deliberate in nature, with negative consequences necessary for the crises they need to continue to stay in power. Owebama is a hate-filled, thin-skinned man whose buttons need some serious pushing by R&R ’12. We’ll see just how serious our team is by how serious they campaign, how seriously they attack Owebama on his policies and results. It’s not a smear to wrap Solyndra and all the green energy bankruptcies which lost taxpayers’ money around Owebama’s neck like the dead albatross they are. If the campaign can ignore the media, or better laugh at them (for real, mockery is the best thing going and more and more people are seeing the media for the mockable asses they are), then they can take a firm approach to ads yet keeping well within the realm of Truth. Owebama lies so much he doesn’t know the truth, which is why he is so fraid of it. It is also why it must be often repeated so as to get through to voters despite the white noise of reality tv, ‘news’, or the latest technological marvel which keeps us entertained.

  69. Occam's Beard Says:

    RickZ, thanks for the info re SecGen. I hadn’t known that.

  70. davisbr Says:

    @ RickZ August 12th, 2012 at 12:54 pm Obama is a hate-filled, thin-skinned man …

    Pretty accurate, that.


  71. Occam's Beard Says:

    Pushing Obama’s buttons has to be the right strategy, since he’s never had to stand on his own two feet against an opponent. He’ll be tracking down those missing strawberries in no time.

  72. kaba Says:

    Occams’s, I’d bet on it. If he loses in 2012 “everyone” will know that it is Bush’s fault. And the Dems would be hard pressed to deny him the nomination after telling us for the last five years that he is the brightest and most outstanding leader EVER!

    Furthermore denying him the nomination would risk alienating much of their minority base. If he wants it he’ll get it and I think he is just arrogant enough to not accept defeat gracefully.

  73. RickZ Says:

    kaba, Owebama won’t have to accept defeat gracefully if he loses by a greater margin than he won with in ’08. He’ll just have to GTFO of the White House and go sulk in some corner somewhere.

    But if it’s a big enough and an epic enough trouncing in both the electoral and popular votes, we might just make Barry toxic long enough for him to become irrelevent. Mind you, he’ll never think he’s irrelevent, but even a solid America-hating ex-President like Jimmy Carter can’t keep the media’s fascination too long. Besides that, even Carter had to do penance in the form of Habitat For Humanity before he became too infirm to do that and became the grande dame sourpussed progressive creep he now is. I can’t see Sir Golfsalot getting his hands dirtier than picking up one of his broken tees. But going off into a corner somewhere and crying his widdle eyes out? You betcha!

  74. expat Says:

    I think he should start a movement to provide golf courses for the inner cities. It’s not fair that all those poor kids have to play basketball.

  75. neo-neocon Says:

    Don Carlos: glad you’re on board.

    Hope there are many more like you, reluctant supporters who are now more enthusiastic. Romney and Ryan will need all of them.

  76. texexec Says:

    I’m hoping that the RR campaign works hard to train Romney how to push Obama’s buttons in the debates in a way that will seem OK and fair. He can’t be seen as being inappropriately aggressive but he does need to know how to get under Obama’s thin skin. If he can do this, Obama will screw himself.

    He does NOT have to docilely answer the MSM moderator’s questions. He should use Gingrich’s technique of saying the question is slanted and misleading when it is. And he should ask Obama leading questions during his answer time..Obama will take the bait and screw up while answering them.

  77. holmes Says:

    Foxmarks is a lost cause off his Xanax, but this should be encouraging to most.

  78. Oldflyer Says:

    With the choice of Ryan, Romney has laid down a challenge to the American voter. The question is now whether we are serious people, capable of making serious choices on serious issues; or do we just opt for the exotic and entertaining? Are we willing to face reality, or are we just hoping for change?

    I have read writers who purport to be serious, tell me that Romney had to choose a Rubio to get sizzle, or choose someone to balance the ticket in this way or that way. Now, we are told that Romney made a risky choice. Why? Because he chose a blend of competence and ideology. He chose for the future of America. Well done, Mitt.

  79. davisbr Says:

    @Occam’s Beard
    He’ll be tracking down those missing strawberries in no time.

    Strawberries. Delightfully brilliant.

    …that’s precisely the character that comes to mind when it comes to the current inhabitant of the office.

  80. Curtis Says:

    Are you familiar with article 184 of Navy Regulations?

  81. sergey Says:

    This is VERY urgent:

  82. OlderandWheezier Says:

    foxmarks is either a troll or a Paul-bot, not that there’s any difference these days.

  83. T Says:


    You mention Gingrich’s technique of reframing an issue. As one who supported Gingrich for precisely that reason, I offer that Romney’s choice of Ryan as VP does exactly that. It changes the playing field and announces that R & R will not play on the adversary’s turf as passive respondants to the Obama campaign’s ad hominem attacks but will reframe the national dialogue on their own terms.

    Either the Obama campaign responds or not. If they do, it becomes a discussion of Obama’s stewardship. If they don’t we could convceivably see the two campaigns speaking past each other, one making substantive economic arguments the other lobbing ad hominem attacks.

    Either way, I think it’s going to be one of the most defining political quarters of this country’s history.

    (BTW =, off topic, but R & R = Remove and Replace! Sounds good to me)

  84. foxmarks Says:

    You folks are beautiful. Keep whistling past the graveyard.

    texec, argue with this.

    Or this.

    I had Denninger handy. There are more, from other analysts, all of us outcasts who use an economic model that actually includes debt.

    As I wrote in some other recent post, Romney’s gauges are broken. But most people just trust the pilot. The mountain is coming.

    Teri Pittman: I’m not sure who you are arguing against. I say the economy is worse than most people believe. Federal transfer programs are unsustainable and bankrupt by the accounting principles we demand of real businesses.

    RandomThoughts: If you want to use the cancer metaphor, my prescription is to start the chemo NOW, not wait for another term of Hope and Change in a red jersey. The tumor grows every day you keep pretending that diet and exercise is all you need to be healed.

    I told my neocon uncle last night that Romney picked Ryan. He thought I was joking. When the fact sank in, he became despondent. “Why him?”

    It seems like many of you live in a bit of an echo chamber. Occasional forays into ThinkProgress or HuffPo don’t give the depth or breadth of opinion that’s really out there.

    Are any of you connected with any GOP campaigns? I am. I don’t just read blogs, I get updates from people out knocking doors and marching in parades. Romney has zero juice.

    Of course, living in a different State would offer a different perspective. That’s why I referenced the electoral map. Obama has about 300 of the 270 he needs.

    If you want to matter, and “change the direction of the country”, I again urge you to get out and work for your House, Senate and local candidates.

  85. M J R Says:

    “I think the electorate knows that he’s a liar, but he [Barack Hussein Obama] had bought off enough of them with the Community Restoration Act, free birth control for women only, etc, that those still voting for him are doing so with the full knowledge that he’s a liar and a crook.”

    William Jefferson Clinton was a congenital liar and a serial philanderer and a rapist . . . and the people ^love^ him to death.

    [loosely translated by me] “Whom shall I deliver to you, Jesus or Barabbas?” “Give us Barabbas! Give us the thief!” And Pilate washed his hands of the whole stinking mess . . .

  86. Curtis Says:

    True Americans never give up.

    We are seeing another 2010 in 2012 as more tea party and fiscally responsible candidates win the primaries. Yes, Romney, and even Ryan, aren’t giving the true and real picture, but people cannot bear to hear the truth. If they are afraid to challenge Obama’s fraudulent birth certificate, how can they be up to the much greater fight of unfunded entitlements? Where have all the Sheriff Joes gone?

    It remains to be seen whether or not outright fiscal collapse is inevitable. I do not see how it is avoidable but I do believe we can avoid actions after the collapse that would be more ruinous than the collapse itself. First, elect a President who would not impose martial law and end free enterprise. That’s kind of the big one. If Obama is President when the collapse comes, there will almost certainly be civil war with no guarantee that a free and democratic United States of America would survive.

  87. Baklava Says:


    You seem to cherish the thought of defeat.

    We cannot – cannot move forward with your way of thinking.

    I live and work in the belly of the beast in Sacramento, CA

    All I can do is vote for R&R, type some encouraging words and hunker down and save and prepare for that cliff if people like you get your way of electing Obama.

  88. parker Says:

    “If you want to matter, and “change the direction of the country”, I again urge you to get out and work for your House, Senate and local candidates.”

    Wanting Obama defeated does not mean we are disinterested in maintaining a majority in the House, obtaining a majority in the US senate, and electing fiscally conservative candidates to positions on the state and local level. Obama is the rotting head of the fish, he needs to be removed. Yes, the rest of the fish remains unhealthy, but at least the major source of the stench has been tightly wrapped in several layers of yesterday’s papers and tossed into the garbage bin.

    I agree with you that the ‘math’ is very bad. Its going to take a decade to make significant headway. What I want is to have that opportunity by starting with the defeat of BHO. And, I see nothing inherently wrong with taking small steps in the right direction. Those are the only steps the majority can be coaxed into taking.

    Ah, youth/zealotry. Everything must be changed immediately or there is no change at all and all is doom and gloom.

    As far as a comeback for BHO, once he is defeated he will self-destruct. His post-presidency will not be magnanimous or majestic. It will be bitter ashes and salted earth. If he is defeated by a 2-5% margin the ‘progressives’ will pretend he never existed.

  89. Baklava Says:

    After reading your 3:43 am post I get the impression you somehow think that electing a person who will cut 40% from spending next year is:
    1) Desired
    2) Electable

    Neither is the case. You can’t commit a 40% reduction in spending in one year. If you DO want something different – please let us know.

    Nor is someone who wants that kind of cut electable. Period.

    Grow up and lets move forward together.

  90. parker Says:

    “If Obama is President when the collapse comes, there will almost certainly be civil war with no guarantee that a free and democratic United States of America would survive.”

    Civil war, perhaps, but a swift descent into dictatorship is more likely IMO which may or may not touch off a civil war. BHO will welcome the opportunity to be America’s Fidel. Martial law will be his first response followed by confiscation of bank and investment accounts, and the debasement of the currency.

  91. Curtis Says:

    Most of the time, you see what you want to see.

    Many are underwhelmed with Romney: No juice, Milquetoast. Floppable. McCainish.

    I believe this type of view opposes the evidence but before we even get to the evidence, here’s a thought. Is it legitimate to always demand a Reagan? Was Reagan even recognized as a Reagan in the beginning?

    Romney can do the required job. Isn’t that enough? Are we expanding the requirements to include messiahship? That isn’t conservative ideology. Are we expanding the requirements to demand the candidate fix everything? That isn’t conservative thought. Are we expanding the requirements to demand that the President is our champion rather than our executive? I hope not. We fight our own battles. I’m not going to personally petition Romney to pay my mortgage after he is elected. Or get me a job. Or pay my health care.

    The evidence does not suggest Romney is milquetoast or not engaged. Romney simply isn’t as described by the MSM anymore than Sarah Palin is. We need to objectively examine Romney’s success: He won a grueling primary; he has withstood an enormous onslaught of character assassination; he has out raised Obama; he has attacked Obama including character issues; he has obtained the endorsements of Clint Eastwood, Lech Walsea, Benjamin Netanyahu; he already has some campaign victories including his NAACP speech and the Solyndra speech; he attracts more people to his rallies than Obama. Further, he really has only started, and finally, he has done all this against an incumbent using the full power of the bully pulpit allied with the MSM, academia, entertainment, and, even some of the Republican establishment (John Huntsman). And Romney does this all without major mistakes, an unflappable demeanor, and unbelievably, without rancor or disdain. Almost as if he had malice toward none.

    And maybe that is his greatest “sin.” He does not seem to share our outrage, but in this, I believe, he is genuinely misunderstood. As a Mormon in the lean years, he long ago learned to protect himself by merely ignoring the insults, threats, and demands to prove his beliefs. This tactic hides an inner core which is a core of conservative values and beliefs. One must listen to what Romney says, not how he says it. And sure, one can say this is an unfortunate disability, but Romney just picked as his running mate someone who excels in this area.

    Romney/Ryan is a pair to get excited about and we need to transmit that excitement. There are two “modes” of election: One, appeal to as many moderates as possible and try not to neglect your base; Two, generate excitement at just the right time and cause people to vote with the emotion and excitement. Both of these tactics are useful and the latter requires that the candidate peak at the right time. Therefore, Romney needs to save his best for last and not out campaign himself.

    Romney may not be the greatest orator, but I do believe he will be one of the very best to have in the White House for the very difficult days ahead.

  92. foxmarks Says:

    How nice, now we’ve switched to impugning my age. I am old enough to have grandchildren. I *have* grown up. There’s no Santa Claus.

    parker: I’m the only one around here who mentions the importance of local races. We occasionally hear about a Senate candidate (Scott Brown), but I can’t recall anyone who talks of getting involved any deeper than writing a check.

    Baklava: Of course nobody with a realistic budget that could avoid collapse is electable. Nearly the entire electorate still believes in Santa Claus. Who desires to be told to grow up after being promised for most of a lifetime that the nanny state would be there to coddle them through retirement?

    I am looking a couple of moves ahead. As I tend to repeat, what we’re really arguing about is what comes next. When more cities and a couple of States default, what do we do?

    When parker writes as if an attempt at dictatorship is merely optional, I chuckle. My county government can’t keep the libraries open, but it is buying a tank. The tools of oppression are being accumulated. I want the beast to break before it becomes strong enough to constitute a Democratic Republic of American States.

    We are in the soft war already. Keep telling yourselves that electing President Buchanan will preserve the Union without creating strife.

    The best path I see includes somewhat-orderly defaults (The Great Repricing) and new Constitutional Convention, where the Progressive vision and the Founders’ vision will be argued out. We need a deep and broad bench of Constitutionalists if our side is to prevail. Romney v. Obama is a sideshow.

  93. MissJean Says:

    Foxmarks, I agree with you in many respects, but your chemo analogy is off-base. The problem with Obama is not merely one of economy but of his appointments and his ability to “override.” His DOJ for another 4 years? Sibelius defining what “Catholic” means to the point that either Catholic hospitals only serve Catholics or acquiesce to the demands of Obamacare? A Department of Education that pushes ideology like it’s the solution to low math scores? Manufactured events to trigger a crisis (e.g. Fast and Furious) and having every subsequent natural event (e.g. theater shooting) spun to support his policy (in this case, gun control).

    A second Obama term won’t be chemotherapy. It will be amputation of healthy limbs while the cancer metastasizes. I’m even afraid of what his and his ilk’s lame-duck months will look like. Electing Romney & Ryan might be like preparing a will, if we’re going to die anyway.

    BTW your comment about working at the state & local level has the same problem with it, at least in my region. My officials have made hard cuts, balanced the budget, and turned public school funds to charter schools in hopes of saving money. But the municipal bonds of yesteryear will doom us all.

  94. Baklava Says:

    Foxmarks wrote:

    Baklava: Of course nobody with a realistic budget that could avoid collapse is electable. Nearly the entire electorate still believes in Santa Claus. Who desires to be told to grow up after being promised for most of a lifetime that the nanny state would be there to coddle them through retirement?

    I am looking a couple of moves ahead. As I tend to repeat, what we’re really arguing about is what comes next. When more cities and a couple of States default, what do we do?

    What do we do? We get behind R&R.

    You aren’t and therefore you are helping the collapse.

    I asked you a question and you answered. You put America in a box and seal our fate. You said of course nobody with a realistic budget will be electable.

    Done. Checkmate. You lost. Get behind Romney or you are the utopian that you chastise. And grow up has nothing to do with age. It means get behind the solution not a utopian view of what can’t be because you have us in a box we can’t get out of.

  95. Baklava Says:

    By the way – these words:
    The best path I see includes somewhat-orderly defaults (The Great Repricing) and new Constitutional Convention, where the Progressive vision and the Founders’ vision will be argued out

    prove you know nothing about how disastrous that path is.

    I know what you WANT. But a Constitutional Convention will certainly not turn out in our best interest. Let’s keep the constitution we have and get behind R&R. Now.

  96. MissJean Says:

    Foxmarks, I cross-posted. I have to admit that a new Constitutional Convention worries me as there are so many non-existent “rights” floating around. We’ll probably end up with something that looks more like the UN’s ugly offspring than a US document.

    My state’s constitution could use an overhaul, but suddenly it’s not as urgent since the governor is a Republican supported by a slight majority. But if it was re-written in Leftese, I could at least move to another state. Where will I go at my age if I have to leave the country?

  97. Don Carlos Says:

    Thanks, Neo.
    I have been watching Mitt quite closely for some time now. I thought at first we needed a harder puncher, a Newt without the baggage, to knock Baraq out of the ring, like Geo. Bellows drew in his famous Dempsey vs. Firpo rendition.

    I was wrong.

    Mitt is just the man, despite the occasional (and stupid) ‘bankster’ tag. He is a chess player, who has studied and played well for a long time. Picking Ryan shows that.

    Perhaps, like in that old Ingmar Bergman film, IIRC, he sees Evil/Death sitting across the chess board from him. He knows what the stakes are.

    I just hope he does better than Wendell Wilkie did against FDR in 1940. The broad circumstances are analogous then and now.

  98. parker Says:

    “I want the beast to break before it becomes strong enough to constitute a Democratic Republic of American States.”

    You want to break the “beast” by reelecting BHO… what a plan! If the “beast” breaks it will not usher in new age of respect for the concepts of a republic. It will not open the door to a fiscally prudent government. It will not end trillion dollar plus annual deficits. The exact opposite will come crashing down. If the “beast” breaks down with BHO in the Oval Office we’ll have mega-FDR on steroids and a police state beyond the wildest imagination of Woodrow Wilson.

    You may be old enough to have grandchildren, but anyone who wants “the beast to break” and believes something good will result is not someone I can take seriously.

  99. baklava Says:

    Ditto Parker.

  100. davisbr Says:

    @foxmarks at 3:18 pm Are any of you connected with any GOP campaigns? I am. I don’t just read blogs, I get updates from people out knocking doors and marching in parades. Romney has zero juice.


    Jay Cost begs to differ.

    …I think I trust his analyses, based upon his contacts in the GOP – which drill down to the county district level in a multiplicity of states around the country – more than your anecdotes, foxmarks.

    He’s almost cheery btw. For Jay, at least.

    …just sayin’.

  101. OlderandWheezier Says:

    (accidentally posted this on a different thread earlier – sorry)—

    Meanwhile, CBS is devoting twice as much attention this evening to the Democrats as it’s giving the GOP ticket:

    (all times EDT)

    7-8 pm Sixty Minutes – interviews with Romney and Ryan

    8-9 pm Big Brother

    9-10 pm Criminal Minds

  102. baklava Says:


  103. DonS Says:

    Neo’s defense of Mitt is looking real good right now.

    Mitt wasn’t my choice, but honestly he has been consistently looking better.

  104. Curtis Says:

    TV. WWF. Twitter. Cable. World of Warcraft. Fantasy Football. Responsive environments. Computer simulations. Data gloves. Boundary dissolution. Texting and then sexting. Porn channels going down in depravement. Solitary confinement in the ground. All these culiminating in the final solution. Intellectuals, so nervous of Nature and God that they prefer cutting their own brain to receive perceived peace, lust for fire, hell, and annihilation.

    Modern toys substitute stimulation for reality and most of the younger generation has no idea what reality is. The are about to be educed. The government induced programming will not satisfy, but it wont matter since it won’t be needed anymore. No one will care. Let them all die. We never cared for them anyway.

    War? Famine? Hunger? Death? They will merely be included into the matrix of overstimulation and false reality. The Four Horsemen will appear once again, as they did in the 20th century because man wandered outside of reasonable boundaries.

    Remember the term “fin de siecle?”

    When the world has been stripped of meaning, meaning must be re-established because man simply cannot live without meaning or purpose. Even the destroyers admitted if God did not exist, we would have to invent him? It is no stretch to say that such an urge shows we were made in God’s image? Living completely divorced from that image brings a price of estrangement.

    Our betters tell us, in an insane madness borne of the false theme that God has betrayed man, that man needs to exterminate himself. Let the planet have peace. Let the nice animals have it back.

    Okay. You first.

    In order to prove he has meaning, if only in his will to power, to show, to prove, like a little boy refused his ice cream, that he, after all, did not want the ice cream anyway, will little man, little boy, Harvard man, university man, commit suicide? Well, only if we love him. If we don’t love him, he will commit homicide. And only then, when we are gone, when the world is done, will he commit suicide and man’s reign of the world end, ignominiously, like the insufficient check we have written our children. The world, in such case, ends both with a whimper and a bang.

    Most of us don’t think that way. That is why the Founding Fathers rested the foundation of government with the populace. We may have some quirks, and we may be often wrong, but mass societal suicide has only been observed when there was a sinister and evil imposing force. I think we observe that now. Opting for suicide only occurs after a very thorough and long cultic indoctrination or university education.

    Get involved and fight now. We are on cusp as we were circa 1914. We must renounce despair, war, and poverty as inevitable. A great magnetic, electric, social shield has attempted to diffuse our will and mind. We cannot and shall not succumb.

    We are not robots, but soon enough, we will fight them.

  105. texexec Says:


    I commend you for working for House, Senate, and local candidates (hopefully Republican). But you’re wrong when you say you’re the only commenter here who has been advocating that. I’ve been harping on the need to keep the House and get control of the Senate ever since Romney sewed up the nomination.

    I have also been urging people to elect Romney so the good work that may be done by a Republican Congress doesn’t get vetoed by Obama.

    We need both the executive and legislative branches to be Republican to turn things around. And in the long run, that will have a good affect on the judicial branch as well.

    In my case, I live in a rural area in Texas. My local elections, House elections, Senate elections and statewide elections will be safely won by Republicans. The best use of my time, energy, and resources will be to help national Republican candidates and a few House and Senate candidates in other states where the elections will be close. That will come mostly in the form of donations and posting in several places on the Internet.

  106. JFM Says:

    I have a great deal of confidence in the ability of America to renew itself. We survived the War of 1812 (an invasion, with the burning of Washington DC), the Civil War, the Great Depression, and World War II, to mention a few crises.

    There’s a certain mindset that I don’t understand. People like “Foxmarks” seem to have an almost masochistic fixation on disastrous outcomes. In the case of the 2012 election, the future is not foretold! The future hasn’t happened yet. The actions that we take now can change the future.

    As for Romney, I started out as a skeptic and have gradually warmed to the man. His style is slow and incremental, with a demonstrated ability to learn from his mistakes (he is a conservative after all).

    As for Obama, I think that he is a rather fragile, unstable man with a very large ego. When the possibility of defeat begins to stare him in the face, he’s going to make some self-destructive and revealing mistakes. Obama’s post-defeat behavior will make Jimmy Carter’s post-defeat behavior look positively patriotic.

    An action that we can take now to change the future is to donate some money to the Romney campaign. I donate regularly.

  107. LisaM Says:

    It’s not hopeless. I live in a Democratic district in PA. At a recent local festival, the Republican booth was very popular. Many people were carrying around Romney bumper stickers and brochures. I’ve seen Romney bumper stickers around town.

    We also live within commuting distance of Delphi, where the non-union members had their pensions confiscated. And there’s a power plant in town closing because it’s coal fired. A few of my friends are Democrats. We don’t talk politics at all, but they’ve all volunteered comments to the effect that Obama simply has to go. People aren’t stupid. They can see what’s happening and they know who’s to blame.

  108. foxmarks Says:

    Yes, texexec, I am putting my energy into GOP candidates.

    As I wrote, I recognize that the observed situation may be different depending on where you live. Rural areas are already a different country, even in my “purple” State. If/when the country splits, I will probably have to move to Texas.

    Baklava: You’re a lousy mind-reader. I know a Constitutional Convention would suck. But I see no reasonable path that leads us back to the Founders’ Constitution without a big philosophical fight. The latest freakin’ saviour, Paul Ryan, voted for TARP, the GM bailout and PATRIOT. If you can’t take my view seriously, neither can I yours.

    parker: A “break the beast” strategy seems better than voting to grow the beast just a little slower. Ryan’s budget never reduces Federal spending. I don’t even understand how you can defend that. Since both sides are trapped in a Keynesian economic model, my best option is to root for the collapse to come as soon as possible. Wouldn’t you have preferred Patton take Berlin instead of waiting for communist economics to reach its inevitable conclusion after four decades of waste and suffering?

  109. Baklava Says:

    foxmarks, Why would you advocate for something that sucks?

    We need to do the following:
    1) Educate people
    2) Be reasonable while educating
    3) Be pursuasive

    You are not being persuasive advocating for something that sucks.

    And no. I can’t take your view seriously. We have our ticket. It is what it is.

    Let’s convince people to get on board because it is the only true option. We will make movement to the limited constitutional government but you can’t convince ME to go with YOU.

  110. neo-neocon Says:

    I don’t know what motivates foxmarks and his ilk (because he’s not alone; there are others of similar mind). I also don’t argue with him any more since it’s a waste of time.

    But my gut feeling about what might motivate a foxmarks or someone else who holds similar views might be some combination of one or more of these things:

    (a) a preference for the dramatic and apocalyptic way of looking at things

    (b) impatience with incrementalism

    (c) a desire to control (or get a sense of power over) bad news by precipitating it and/or predicting it

    (d) the need to stand out from the crowd (and get attention) by being different

    (e) pessimism

  111. foxmarks Says:

    A large measure of (b). With the other options, I take you back to my points about math. You have to find some character-based reason why I see the world as I do, because you can’t win on the numbers.

    This seems apt:

    [Y’all] literally cannot connect the dots from the America that was to the U.S. that is. Few can and the cognitive dissonance required to make the transformation is painful and, as an added benefit to those who endure, quite literally makes one unable to communicate to those who’ve refused the red pill.

    I can’t unsee the formula where the law of exponents leads to collapse. To me, it sounds like you all are arguing against gravity because you don’t like being overweight.

  112. foxmarks Says:

    Baklava: In a nice way, most of you around here are lost. I argue not to persuade you, but as practice. And we never know which lurkers are awakened to the existence of the Matrix.

    It’s funny when I get cracks about being young/immature. I have thought your thoughts and made your arguments. Heck, I still make some of them when I battle the Progs. If anyone can make a political change from liberal to conservative, I hope they can keep an open mind. Conservatism (whatever that means!) is not an end. It is a phase.

  113. neo-neocon Says:

    Oh, I meant to add to my comment above:

    (f) a condescending sense of their own superior ability to reason and prognosticate

  114. foxmarks Says:

    Neo: Did I touch a nerve? You’re rarely so petty.

    But since you’ve diagnosed my psychological disorders, I may as well build your case study.

    Baklava stands in for a point of view that R&R is all we have, so that’s what we have to support. I don’t make the argument that you are better off voting for SpongeBob SquarePants than a lesser evil. At least not this time.

    I say the R&R ticket is doomed. But it is *not* all we have. We have Congressional and local races, as I touted earlier. The obsessive focus on the Presidency is a symptom of how far we are from the Framers’ Federalism. You don’t return to the Constitution by ignoring it.

    We’re supposed to be focusing on the government and politicians closest to us. All politics are local, right?

    Each of your particular jurisdictions doesn’t have to suffer so hard as the bastions of the urban left will. You can make your local gov’ts work better, along conservative ideals. So, no way is R&R all we have, nor is it our only hope.

    If you subscribe to gradualism, work that on your county board and Statehouse. If I think too much (too hard?), I wonder why we take advice on national races from those who can’t even reshape their own States?

    Are we really that wise to listen to the pundits and opinion leaders from Massachusetts, New York and California? If any one of those were not spotted to the Democrats, the R&R ticket would have a chance.

    Can Romney deliver MA’s electoral votes? Or, maybe he’s moved…can he deliver CA to the GOP?

    Tell me again who is Reaganesque…?

  115. baklava Says:

    Thanks for your note.
    Moving forward,
    I choose to talk to people that has none of those qualities.

    Languorous is not for me.

  116. baklava Says:

    Time for another jello to the wall post? :-)

  117. nyo Says:

    I think the R&R ticket brings a competence level that can’t be ignored .. we need a strong economic engine, it trumps all other issues second of which is, or is the prerequisite of, national security/foreign policy … then we can have the inevitable, e.g. glt civil rights, etc… but first is first.

  118. Don Carlos Says:

    Go away, foxmarks, and stay away, with your impatience with incrementalism and your condescention towards most of us here. You are a Great Leap Forward kind of guy. Progressivism has been afoot for 100 years; that incremental enough for you? Did it work?

    We have to take back our government and its buildings brick by brick by brick. That is incremental. We will not get it right every time (and oddly neither will you); incrementalism is the way of lasting human progress, not convulsions. We had a sufficient dose of convulsions in the last century, and if Obama prevails, we will have another.

  119. neo-neocon Says:

    foxmarks: I think I’ve engaged with you plenty on this issue, so perhaps you know that your attitude doesn’t just “touch a nerve,” it makes me angry. You are correct that I am rarely petty (at least, I try not to be), but there is nothing “petty” about what I’m saying here.

    I have listed the possible explanations I can think of for your attitude. That is not pettiness, it is coming up with theories about the function that this incredibly defeatist and destructive stance might serve for you. Perhaps I am wrong about your motivations; that’s why I was careful to say my list was only a “gut feeling,” and to use the qualifying word “might” two times, when I wrote, “But my gut feeling about what might motivate a foxmarks or someone else who holds similar views might be some combination of one or more of these things…”

    Your attitude is more outrageous to me than that of a straightforward Obama-supporter. At least he/she has the courage of his convictions. You, on the other hand, are voting against what you believe in order to hasten some sort of apocalypse you think is inevitable.

    And by the way, focusing on the presidency vs. more local races is not an either/or proposition. I usually write about national issues because my readers are from around the country and even the world; this is not a blog with a local focus. But that doesn’t mean that I, or readers here, care about national issues and candidates to the exclusion of local ones.

    Plus, when last I checked, the Constitution gives the president veto power over laws enacted by Congress. Therefore, no matter how hard you might work to elect a member of the House or Senate, it matters not unless the Republicans gain control of 2/3 of each house, if Obama gets re-elected. He would be able to override every single thing they pass, including repeal of Obamacare. What is it about that that you don’t understand? He will also get to appoint liberal SCOTUS justices who will be young enough to control the Court for decades to come. What about that don’t you understand?

    Or does your crystal ball say that would be a good thing?

  120. RandomThoughts Says:

    Your attitude is more outrageous to me than that of a straightforward Obama-supporter. At least he/she has the courage of his convictions. You, on the other hand, are voting against what you believe in order to hasten some sort of apocalypse you think is inevitable

    THIS! It’s such odd behavior, so perverse, that it makes it impossible to take foxmarks’ comments as anything other than a twisted, albeit articulate, demand for attention. Ah, the internet, such wonders it contains…

  121. MissJean Says:

    Well, looking at the math, I’d rather deal with a debt incrementally than have a balloon payment. Not that the math is straightforward, mind you. The value of the dollar, the value of municipal bonds, our relationship to countries holding our debt, etc. – there’s a lot in play.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.


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