August 20th, 2012

Onward and upward with the Muslim Brotherhood

The Muslim Brotherhood is tightening its control over Egypt, and there doesn’t seem to be much anyone can do about it.

Dennis Ross seems to believe, though, that Obama could arrest the slide with some toughlove:

Egypt’s president and people should…know that we are prepared to mobilize the international community, and global financial institutions, to help Egypt — but that we will only do so if Egypt’s government is prepared to play by a set of rules grounded in reality and key principles. They must respect the rights of minorities and women; they must accept political pluralism and the space for open political competition; and they must respect their international obligations, including the terms of Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel.

I’m not sure what dream world Ross is living in. But I’m cynically amused by the notion that our threats might induce Egypt’s government to “respect the rights of minorities and women” and “accept political pluralism” as well as make nice to Israel. I’m also cynically amused by the idea that the Obama administration has any notion of making such demands of Egypt and/or following through on them.

12 Responses to “Onward and upward with the Muslim Brotherhood”

  1. Richard Aubrey Says:

    The first sign of an Arab Spring was a bunch of adolescents tweeting and whatever, leading to the idea that Egypt was going to be run by a bunch of liberal grad students.
    In fact, after the colonialist excuse is removed, and various vicious dictators are gone, and we have elections, we get to see what arrangements Muslim prefer when they get to set them up as they wish.
    Educational.
    This, plus the indigestibility of Muslim immigrant communities in Europe, requires some serious overlooking by certain types in this country. But I expect they’re up to it.

  2. Mr. Frank Says:

    It’s time to pull the plug on financial aid. Let the crazies starve.

  3. Artfldgr Says:

    i said a long time ago if the one line in the sand failed, what would happen? the soviets call this one line a “buffer zone” that the US is imposing… so i am not the only one who sees it that way…

    so.. now, with this change, the treaties are gone, and israel is wondering whether it can bomb a nuclear reactor and risk four countries trying to invade it at the same time a big fifth throws ordinance at them.

    I’m not sure what dream world Ross is living in.

    a fantasy world where his words and ideas are so great, others just fall into line upon hearing them. the fantasy world where your mother goes to talk to the bully and things turn out ok…

    the fantasy world where OWS organizers now admit to wanting to create a communist state…
    [oh, wait the fantasy is that that is not real]

    “Progressive labor is a revolutionary communist organization,” Golash said during an Occupy DC “People’s Assembly” on August 19.

    “Its objective,” he added, “is to make revolution in the United States, overthrow the capitalist system and build communism.”
    http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/20/former-union-boss-at-occupy-event-our-goal-is-to-overthrow-the-capitalist-system-and-build-communism-video/

    the fantasy world where north korea is happy and peaceful next to its neighbors
    Kim warns troops to prepare for ‘sacred war’ during US-South Korea exercises
    http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/usworld/article/269344/6/N-Korea-leader-Prepare-for-sacred-war

    the fantasy world where there are no nuclear weapons on the island of cuba… and that putin never said so to the world in speeches
    http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/01-08-2012/121804-russia_army_base-0/

    where chavez is part of the castro moscow preparation for war in south america

    a fantasy world where the US is safe from incursions by nuclear arms…
    http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/

    “The strategic objective is to build a new Bolivarian military doctrine that would prepare Venezuela to be successful in a prolonged popular war against ‘the empire,’ or the United States,” Machado said, citing the document. “This is clearly a proposal with Cuban inspiration and advice.”

    Socialist Party of Venezuela plans to finish assembling its one-million-man territorial militia by next year.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9471752/Venezuela-plans-a-million-strong-guerrilla-army-against-US-invasion.html

    a fantasy world where feminists are supporting women and everyone else working towards a better world, rather than the same thing OWS and unions are working towards.

    “Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.” – Catharine A. MacKinnon, Toward a Feminist Theory of the State (First Harvard University Press, 1989), p.10

    a fantasy world where marx is right, collectivism is not slavery, islam is a religion of piece (spelling intentional since they cut off parts its the religion of a piece here, a piece there)… feminism is not communism, communism is utopian, abortion is not eugenics, palliative care with appointed state advocates is not euthanasia, where equality exists before the law, etc

    most of all that are the fantasies we live with, aligned next to their tiny refutation (there is always a lot more), and we still go on believing it.

    then wonder why we are confused..

    but wouldnt you be confused if you blieve things that have little bearing with the real world, and so when you stub your toe on it, your surprised not bored with the whole predictable lot of it!!!!!!!!!

  4. Artfldgr Says:

    by the way, refusing to believe a world war is coming, is the perfect condition to orchestrate a world war coming… disbelief makes it easy to sneak up on them in front of their faces!!!!!!!!!
    and no amount of pointing, examples, quotes, self proclamations by them, etc… will change that belief, so it makes it a certainty…

    the disbelief that reparations and punishement through them would not lead to another war… how did that work?

    the disbelief in that second war was set by believing the first one was the one to end all others…

    the disbelief of the chinese at Choisun resevoir, is that they dont like to start wars (despite starting most of them and blaming the US)…

    heck… people get cancer because they believe they wont, and so dont adjust behavior

    what you dont believe can happen, becomes easier, if possible

    its the difference between sneaking up on a fearful mouse vs a dodo…

  5. kaba Says:

    But that smart diplomacy thingy worked so incredibly well with Iran didn’t it?

  6. OlderandWheezier Says:

    Not sure which is more amusing, the thought that the Muslim Brotherhood/Egypt would cave to pressure from this administration, or that this administration could actually muster the leadership and fortitude to attempt to pressure them.

  7. rickl Says:

    OlderandWheezier Says:
    August 20th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    Not sure which is more amusing, the thought that the Muslim Brotherhood/Egypt would cave to pressure from this administration, or that this administration could actually muster the leadership and fortitude to attempt to pressure them.

    Or that Obama is even interested in pressuring them.

  8. waltj Says:

    Leaving aside the administration’s intent, or lack thereof, to pressure the MB, why would anybody even listen to Dennis Ross’ advice? For someone who’s spent as much time on Middle East issues as he has over the decades, he seems to have learned almost nothing of the societies there. He’s the prototypical self-loathing, self-referential liberal American Jew who’s uncomfortable around dangerous things like guns and tanks, especially Israeli ones, and thinks things would be just peachy if Israel would only trust the Arabs more and not be so “militaristic”. He’s been living in a “fantasy world” for long time when it comes to the Middle East, Art. We follow his advice at our peril.

  9. TR Says:

    This is kind of off the topic:

    Today, August 20 of 2012, Obama has suggested that, in the civil war in Syria, that if Syria’s government uses chemical weapons in this war, then maybe the U.S. will have to send the U.S. army to stop the war in Syria.

    I say that this is [bull manure] being said by the Obama Administration.

    Why is this bull manure?

    Because, in about the last four months, a reporter asked a U.S. general why we went to war against Qaddafi’s Lybia and beat Qaddafi, but we aren’t doing the same against Syria’s government.

    The general said a statement like: [we went to fight in the war in Lybia, because we could fight that war and not have the fear of Lybia using chemical weapons on us. We aren't fighting a war against Syria's government, because SYRIA HAS chemical weapons]!

    So, in some months, Obama + his military won’t put our military people into the danger of being attacked by chemical weapons, and then, in other months, Obama and his military WILL PUT OUR MILITARY PEOPLE INTO THE DANGER OF BEING ATTACKED BY CHEMICAL WEAPONS?

    Either Obama can, or he can’t put our troops into a war with chemical weapons. We, the U.S. people, will not let him have both.

    There is no in between.

  10. waltj Says:

    TR, that’s a rather strange article you cite. Chemical weapons are most effective on civilian populations. They are much less of a problem to soldiers who are trained and equipped to operate in a CW environment, as US troops are, and an American general would know that. Even 30 years ago, when I was on active duty, I knew what to do in an enemy gas attack. Would enemy use of CW agents make operating more inconvenient? Yes. Uncomfortable? Certainly. But soldiers are trained to put on their masks and protective clothing, and continue the mission. They have chemical detector alarms, know how to decontaminate, and even have specialized units trained to deal with enemy munitions on a larger scale. The biggest victims in a Syrian chemical attack would be Syrian civilians, not US soldiers.

  11. TR Says:

    @ waltj

    My comment was off the cuff, to be sure. But on Feb. 14, 2012, Joint Chiefs of Staff General Dempsey spoke on Capitol Hill.

    There is an article that reports on what he had to say.

    In the article, JCOS Gen. Dempsey seems to explain why the Obama administration, in February, was, maybe, reluctant to take any military action in the civil war/”civilan uprising”, in Syria.

    JCOS Gen. Dempsey also says that:

    1) The war there is a regional battle between Shiite people + Shia people in Syria, and that getting involved in the war would mean getting in a war that involves all the major players in the Middle East.

    2) He said that the U.S. doesn’t know who the opposition is, in the Syrian war

    and

    3) That in the war in Syria, the [Syrian Government] is a credible chemical warfare and biological warfare threat and that Syria has a credible military.

    This, as it is presented, is a much different message, than the [if Syria uses chemical weapons/warfare in the war in Syria, then that might trigger a problem that will make the U.S. intervene with the U.S. military]-type of statement, by Pres. Obama, around Aug. 20, 2012.

    To me, it sounds like Pres. Obama and his military staff, have flip flopped on the issue of: [Syrian chemical weapons make it too dangerous for the U.S. to send it's military into the war in Syria].

    The article is titled.:

    Dempsey: Syria ‘much different’ from Libya, ‘big players’ involved in conflict.

    This is where the article is, today:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/14/dempsey-syria-much-different-than-libya-big-players-involved-in-conflict/

  12. waltj Says:

    @ TR: yes, that’s a more reasonable position by Gen. Dempsey. Chemical warfare agents, while deadly, are not the war-winning weapons that they sometimes portrayed as in the press. Both the Germans and the Allies learned that lesson in WW1. What chemicals can do is to kill a lot of unprepared civilians, or poorly-trained, ill-equipped soldiers, as we saw in the Iran-Iraq War. If my experience in the Army still holds, US soldiers respect chemical weapons, but they don’t fear them, and have the training and equipment to neutralize any potential advantage that they might offer to an enemy.

    There are some reasons to intervene in Syria, and probably more not to. I’m reminded of Gen. Colin Powell’s Three Rules for Getting Involved in Civil Wars:
    1. Don’t.
    2. If you still choose to do so, pick a side.
    3. Make sure your side wins.

    The problem as I see it is that there is a multitude of rebel “sides” to choose from. Even the overall “Free Syrian Army” has its factions, if what I’m seeing in the media is accurate. And I’m not convinced we’re smart enough to find that one faction that won’t stab us in the back after it’s all over, nor that we would offer enough support to that faction to ensure it’s the one that wins.

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Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.
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