November 19th, 2012

Israel and Hamas

I haven’t written about the current crisis between Israel and Hamas yet because most of what I have to say is a rehash of previous posts from similar skirmishes.

The usual suspects say the usual things, and there’s the usual false claim that a dead Palestinian child was killed by Israel when in fact he was killed by Hamas.

Melanie Phillips adds:

But consider this: the very low casualty rate among Israelis from the thousands of rockets that have rained down on them from Gaza is largely due to the fact that Israel has provided its citizens with shelters to save their lives. In Gaza, by horrific contrast, the Hamas leadership has deliberately exposed its citizens to attack by siting its rocket arsenals among them in order to maximise the number of civilian men, women and children who will be killed.

I wrote about that phenomenon before, here.

Obama has at least paid lip service to Israel’s right to defend itself. But I don’t think Israelis are under any illusions that they have a friend in this president.

29 Responses to “Israel and Hamas”

  1. GoneWithTheWind Says:

    This war will end when the Palestinians choose to love life and their childrens life more then they hate the jews.

  2. liamalpha Says:

    Don’t forget the amazing Iron Dome system, which Israel deployed to intercept the Hamas rockets as they fly, while simultaneously targeting only those that are projected to land in populated areas:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20396049
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrlsCE4Bdn0

  3. Susanamantha Says:

    I ‘m glad we haven’t needed an Iron Dome system as yet. I hope our government has one in the works and probably does for the DC area.

  4. holmes Says:

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/11/18/america-israel-gaza-the-world/

    I thought this from Walter Russel Mead was really good.

  5. ziontruth Says:

    “But I don’t think Israelis are under any illusions that they have a friend in this president.”

    Though this is my personal opinion, I’m sure there are a lot of Israeli Jews who think the same on that: We’ll settle for him not taking our enemies’ side. If he just mouths the usual platitudes but doesn’t press on Israel with actions, that’ll be good enough.

    Given his statement in Dreams From My Father that he’d stand with the Muslims in hard times, I’m not very optimistic. I hope to be wrong about this, but I’m preparing for being right about the four difficult years ahead.

  6. J.J. formerly Jimmy J. Says:

    Good link, holmes. WRM explains why defending yourself vigorously is considered to be “unjust war” by the simpering proponents of proportionality. As he states, proportional response leads to nothing but never-ending, low intensity bloodshed. Which is what we see in the ongoing war between radical Islam and the West. Which, by the way, began back in 1979. Thus far only George W. Bush has recognized that it is a war, but even he was not willing to prosecute it to win unconditionally.

    Obama’s statement that Israel has a right to defend itself is smoke and mirrors. He is hoping the CNN vids of bleeding children will force him to jump in with the UN and all the Israel hating mob and castigate Israel for its disproportionate, unjust war.

    It will go on until the West decides to end it decisively. Will it take a nuke in downtown USA or Tel Aviv to force that decision? Or will we eventually become too weak to end it decisively? I wish I knew the answers.

  7. Richard Aubrey Says:

    For the left, dead civilians are a tool, not a concern.
    If they can be used, howl and weep. If not, yawn.
    Or, as with the Vietnamese boat people, condemn them as the plutocrats escaping what they deserve.
    Belmont Club has a different view. This is all the Muslims can do to Israel. No huge armies–as with Syria and Egypt ca 1973.
    BCers think the MENA is about to fall into itself. Good detail.

  8. parker Says:

    “Obama’s statement that Israel has a right to defend itself is smoke and mirrors. He is hoping the CNN vids of bleeding children will force him to jump in with the UN and all the Israel hating mob and castigate Israel for its disproportionate, unjust war.”

    Yes, smoke and mirrors. The jews are usurpers and oppressors. BHO quickly returned the bust of Winston because the UK was the colonial oppressor of Kenya.

    “One of the criteria for jus in bello (fighting nice as opposed to jus ad bellum which is about whether it is just ) is proportionality. If the other guy comes at you with a stick, you can’t pull a knife. If he’s got a knife, you can’t pull a gun. If he burned your barn, you can’t nuke his capital. Your use of force must be proportionate to the cause and to the danger.”

    Come to my house with a baseball bat (or in BHO’s case a golf club), or a knife, and I’ll meet you with a 12 gauge. Proportionately be damned. In a fight there is no such thing as fairness. The object is to remain standing.

    BTW, never pull a knife on an attacker with a stout stick…. you will probably lose.

  9. LAG Says:

    neo, there are no civilians in Gaza. If people were paying attention to what Hamas is saying, they would realize that. By their way of thinking, every man, woman, and child is a warrior expendable in the service of jihad. Calling them ‘civilians’ demonstrates the weakness of the West.

  10. parker Says:

    “This war will end when the Palestinians choose to love life and their childrens life more then they hate the jews.”

    This is a choice they will never make.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etDb5tXPawc

    One day, they shall reap what they sow.

    http://tinyurl.com/ylgk9pc

    I’m not a jew, but I understand why after the holocaust the jews wanted a land of their own once again after 2,000 years of diaspora. The UN voted to create Israel. Long live Israel.

    When this subject comes up with my liberal friends I ask them a simple question. If you are a woman, if you are homosexual, if you believe in the basic human right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness where would you chose to live; in Israel or any Islamic state? They instantly find the nearest exit or change the subject.

  11. Mr. Frank Says:

    Hamas has played into Israel’s hands. Assuming that Israel is going to attack Iran, this rocket attack by Hamas gives Israel the chance to destroy much of the Pali’s rocket stash in advance of that attack. The concern of Israel has been that they would be hit from the north and the south by the Iran proxies. Pounding Hamas reduces the threat from the south.

  12. MDL Says:

    Richard Aubrey

    For the right, dead civilians are a tool, not a concern.
    If they can be used, howl and weep. If not, yawn.

    Do you see how offensive that is when one word is changed?

  13. Mr. Frank Says:

    MDL,

    Changing one word made it a false statement. The original was true. For Hamas dead civilians are an asset — especially children.

  14. Richard Aubrey Says:

    MDL. Mr. Frank is correct. For the left, dead civilians are a tool, not a concern. See the left’s concern about the dead of the massacre at Hue, for example.
    Or the Israelis dead at the hands of the terrs.
    Best you can get from a lefty is eggs and omelets.

  15. Richard Aubrey Says:

    I should point out that the left’s faux concern for dead civilians is the reason the terrs, communist armies, etc. go so far out of their various ways to facilitate dead civilians.
    Were it not for the left’s overwhelming interest in seeing dead civilians–depending on who killed them–there’d be far fewer dead civilians.
    Various places, instapundit, etc, report that another instance of Hamas faking IDF killing a kid.
    They know where the money is.

  16. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    “Assuming that Israel is going to attack Iran” Mr. Frank

    Israel lacks the conventional military resources to overcome the geographical and logistical obstacles to effectively derailing the Iranian nuclear program. There’s little doubt that Obama has threatened Israel with the cessation of US aid, should Israel unilaterally attack Iran.

    A first strike nuclear attack by Israel against Iran’s nuclear facilities is a political non-starter. If Israel ignores that political reality and launches a nuclear strike, it might well precipitate the Pakistani’s getting involved, either directly or by giving Hezbollah a nuke to use in a terrorist attack against Tel Aviv, which would effectively end Israel.

  17. parker Says:

    “Do you see how offensive that is when one word is changed?”

    Question: Do you realize that you are twisting words? Answer: YES! You know exactly what you are, you are a shill and you remove all doubt that you are a cheerleader for the fascist left and their jihad partners.

  18. Gary Rosen Says:

    MDL, the Arabs have said out loud, “We will win because Jews love life but we love death”. Israel’s enemies have a long-established habit of undertaking military operations from civilian areas precisely because they know they can use their own civlian casulaties for propaganda. Another data point that may or may not be of interest to you: the Hamas charter calls for the murder of Jews. Not Israelis. Not Zionists. Not “settlers”. Jews.

    If you try to play that “even-handed” game here you will lose, badly.

  19. Sparker Says:

    Gaza is a small and very crowded area. If Hamas moved all its arms and munitions to areas as far from civilian as possible, it’s likely Israel would destroy them outright as soon as discovered, likely before they were even used. If Hamas fought in the open, or behind pure military structures they’d also likely be taken down quickly with higher intensity weapons that the Israelis could use more freely in open spaces without regard to collateral damage.

    There aren’t any bunkers in existence that wouldn’t be destroyed by Israeli weapons, aside from very deep bunkers once targeted by modern weapons. But very deep bunkers are practically useless with the technology Hamas is using for fighting purposes. Mostly useful for hiding.

    So…they should not fight, but they do.

  20. beverly Says:

    Ah, Sparker, why don’t you make like horse flop and hit the trail?

    Poor old Palis. Why don’t those mean ole Jews let them fire THOUSANDS OF ROCKETS on Israel without retaliating? I mean, that’s just so mean.

    There already is an Arab state for the palis: it’s called JORDAN. Also, the 600,000 Jews who were forcibly evicted from various moslem countries haven’t been squatting on the respective borders, lobbing rockets at THEM. Even though the Jews were evicted, and the palis were NOT: they CHOSE to leave, salivating at the prospect of the immediate destruction of Israel. Their bad luck that it didn’t happen, but they’ve been pursuing an extinction policy ever since.

    And as far as Gaza’s size being the excuse for their “men” hiding behind their women and children — that’s nonsense on stilts. The moslem cowards everywhere use the same tactic, and why?

    Because they, unlike the Quisling Leftists, know that our fighting men are decent and will try very hard NOT to kill women and children.

    I personally would say, let’s do a leaflet drop to tell the civilians that Hell is about to break loose and they’d better get out, then bomb them until the rubble bounces. And that’s being a lot kinder to them than they would be to the hated Jooos if they could get their hands around the Jewish necks.

  21. ziontruth Says:

    Sparker,

    Tel Aviv is just as crowded in many of its areas, if not more so. But in Israel we put the civilians in bomb shelters, not in the line of fire as Hamas do—in common with all other Islamic terrorist organizations—deliberately to reap the propaganda benefits with the help of a Western Leftist media sympathetic to their imperialist cause.

  22. NeoConScum Says:

    beverly…Ohhhh, I do like the cut of your jib, Lady!! You and I share a detestation of His Infantile Majesty the Boy King’s unshakeable faith in the useless, feckless, continuous demonstrations of WEAKNESS as a way of winning(Belch..)FRIENDS.

    “If there’s anything that experience has shown, it is that WEAKNESS IS PROVOCATIVE.” ..Rummy..or, was it Dick Cheney…or, Both??

  23. ziontruth Says:

    OT: I find GQ’s asking Rubio what he believes about the age of the earth interesting. The libs aren’t yet sure how they’re going to race-card a Hispanic, so they lob the Crazy Christian Creationist™ Card in the meantime.

    Marxists, like their Muslim allies, will employ any means possible to destroy their enemies.

  24. Gringo Says:

    Israel has some very good intelligence capabilities on the ground in Gaza, to have taken out Hamas military chief Ahmed Jabari several weeks ago, and to have followed this up with destroying underground missile launching sites. This must make the Hamas honchos very uncomfortable- and justifiably paranoid. Who among them is a spy for the Zionist State?

    Coincidentally there is a Spanish language homophone to Hamas: “jamás,” which means never in Spanish. Rather a succinct summary of the Hamas mission statement: Hamas/Never [recognize the Zionist State]. Back in the day,Jamás was also a big hit song for Camilo Sesto.

    My question is: how much more of the missiles in Gaza can Israel destroy without bringing troops into Gaza?

  25. ziontruth Says:

    Gringo,

    “Hamas” in Hebrew means “oppression”—the word is used in Genesis 6:13 among many other places. It probably means something else in Arabic, but it’s fitting.

    As for troops on the ground, they might make the removal of the missiles more efficient, but they’re still not a permanent solution. The cycle of Arab attacks, Israeli retaliation, ceasefire and then Arab rearmament for the next attacks can only be broken by removing the entire attacking population.

    I have next to no hope that the current Israeli leadership, which still sets far too much store in what the world will say or do, will be up to the task and Jewish duty of mass expulsion. The best I can hope for is the reconstruction and repopulation of Gush Katif, the area of Jewish population centers that was demolished and ethnically cleansed of Jews in August 2005 “for the sake of peace.”

  26. Richard Aubrey Says:

    Reported that the Israeli defense mfrs did okay at the Paris Air Show. Except for Iron Dome. Turns out the potential buyers thought it was crazy. Only the Israelis would think of shooting down incoming missiles instead of going after the shooters and killing them.

  27. Daniel in Brookline Says:

    Gary Rosen:
    MDL, the Arabs have said out loud, “We will win because Jews love life but we love death”.

    I’ve often wondered what sort of society they think they could build for themselves, stipulating that they actually won. Okay, no more Jewish state, your strategy of loving death (and teaching your children to love death) has worked. Now what? Is that really a society fit for people to live in? Or do they think they can abandon the winning strategy for a life-affirming one?

    We already know the answer, by the way, because we’ve seen it when the Palestinians rule themselves, e.g. in Gaza. When there’s some minor dust-up, e.g. government workers not getting paid their salaries, the answer is violence and terror, or the threat of the same. (I read somewhere that disgruntled employees with AK-47s once disrupted a session of the Palestinian parliament.)

    Perhaps one day the Palestinians will wake up from this nightmare they have inflicted upon themselves.

  28. NeoConScum Says:

    EVERYBODY Relax: Hillary Has Arrived in the Mid-Freaking-East. ALL will be GOOOOOD.

    This is well known,’Yo.

  29. ziontruth Says:

    Daniel in Brookline,

    Your observation holds true for every Muslim-majority society on the planet, except those few where the religion isn’t taken seriously (Islam’s equivalent of Cafeteria Catholics). The special case of the Arab colonists on the Land of Israel is prominent only because of its intensity and high profile.

    “Perhaps one day the Palestinians will wake up from this nightmare they have inflicted upon themselves.”

    My hope is that one day the Arabs will realize they can’t be Palestinians any more than Spaniards can be Japanese, and upon this realization will cease coveting the Jewish nation’s rightfully-held land.

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