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	<title>Comments on: FDR, the movies, presidential reputations, and history</title>
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	<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/</link>
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		<title>By: Michael Adams</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-468231</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 00:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-468231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lenin was especially delighted with the power of cinema.  Have you seen any of the movies made in the twenties and early thirties? There was one about (what else?) tractors, specifically the coming of the tractor to the village. Silent, of course, with Russian and English subtitles.  We&#039;d call it heavy-handed.  I am sure it swayed millions to the pro-Soviet and pro-tractor point of view.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lenin was especially delighted with the power of cinema.  Have you seen any of the movies made in the twenties and early thirties? There was one about (what else?) tractors, specifically the coming of the tractor to the village. Silent, of course, with Russian and English subtitles.  We&#8217;d call it heavy-handed.  I am sure it swayed millions to the pro-Soviet and pro-tractor point of view.</p>
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		<title>By: Conrad</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-468075</link>
		<dc:creator>Conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 18:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-468075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Filmmakers seem to think that long-dead figures from the past won&#039;t be relatable to modern audiences unless they are given 21st century attitudes.  Whoever directed the FDR movie probably figured that, since Roosevelt was known to have had at least one extramarital affair, it was therefore within the bounds of dramatic license to portray him abruptly engaging in a spontaneous sexual act in his car with a distant relative.  While there&#039;s no evidence that particular incident or relationship occurred, the director figures that modern moviegoers are accustomed to impromptu sexual encounters and so that is how FDR should likewise be portrayed in order to really drive home the point of how &quot;human&quot; he was.

This is all nonsense, of course.  The fact that FDR may have gotten it on with a mistress or two doesn&#039;t justify the inference that he was Ben Roethlisberger version 1.0.  We need to keep in mind that FDR came from a time and place in which sex was strictly behind closed doors.  There was no Spice Channel or internet porn, or even the Starr Report.  The kind of sexual encounter described in that excerpt would have been completely outrageous and therefore not at all true to his actual character.  

Most fillmakers are actually a lot more subtle about this.  A favorite tactic in modern historical dramas is to show a LOT of cussing.  Even &quot;Lincoln&quot; did this, although I thought it was otherwise great in terms of presenting us with a plausible vision of 1865 Washington.  While I don&#039;t doubt there was plenty of profanity in the old days, I think it was probably a lot less common to hear four-letter words in normal conversation.  IOW, standards have decorum have changed.  And that makes sense, actually, because a person 75 years ago would have NEVER heard a four-letter word uttered on the radio or in any movie, or even seen it in print.  However, today&#039;s movie directors will typically portray historical characters using bad language as if it were just as ubiquitous as it is today, simply to connect with modern audiences. 

You see this trend in other ways, too.   If you look at old photos or movies, you rarely see a lady in a particularly flattering bra.  In fact, a lot of women&#039;s clothing (at least up to the 1930s) really looks bad to my &quot;modern&quot; eye.  But Hollywood will always tailor the clothes to make the girls look great and sexy, no matter what the era.   (Note: This is not a complaint.)  And of course she&#039;ll have perfect hair, makeup, and teeth, even though I would imagine it was nearly impossible for women to achieve such looks in the era being portrayed on film.  Again, it&#039;s more important to the filmmakers to make the characters relatable to modern audiences than it is to get the history right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Filmmakers seem to think that long-dead figures from the past won&#8217;t be relatable to modern audiences unless they are given 21st century attitudes.  Whoever directed the FDR movie probably figured that, since Roosevelt was known to have had at least one extramarital affair, it was therefore within the bounds of dramatic license to portray him abruptly engaging in a spontaneous sexual act in his car with a distant relative.  While there&#8217;s no evidence that particular incident or relationship occurred, the director figures that modern moviegoers are accustomed to impromptu sexual encounters and so that is how FDR should likewise be portrayed in order to really drive home the point of how &#8220;human&#8221; he was.</p>
<p>This is all nonsense, of course.  The fact that FDR may have gotten it on with a mistress or two doesn&#8217;t justify the inference that he was Ben Roethlisberger version 1.0.  We need to keep in mind that FDR came from a time and place in which sex was strictly behind closed doors.  There was no Spice Channel or internet porn, or even the Starr Report.  The kind of sexual encounter described in that excerpt would have been completely outrageous and therefore not at all true to his actual character.  </p>
<p>Most fillmakers are actually a lot more subtle about this.  A favorite tactic in modern historical dramas is to show a LOT of cussing.  Even &#8220;Lincoln&#8221; did this, although I thought it was otherwise great in terms of presenting us with a plausible vision of 1865 Washington.  While I don&#8217;t doubt there was plenty of profanity in the old days, I think it was probably a lot less common to hear four-letter words in normal conversation.  IOW, standards have decorum have changed.  And that makes sense, actually, because a person 75 years ago would have NEVER heard a four-letter word uttered on the radio or in any movie, or even seen it in print.  However, today&#8217;s movie directors will typically portray historical characters using bad language as if it were just as ubiquitous as it is today, simply to connect with modern audiences. </p>
<p>You see this trend in other ways, too.   If you look at old photos or movies, you rarely see a lady in a particularly flattering bra.  In fact, a lot of women&#8217;s clothing (at least up to the 1930s) really looks bad to my &#8220;modern&#8221; eye.  But Hollywood will always tailor the clothes to make the girls look great and sexy, no matter what the era.   (Note: This is not a complaint.)  And of course she&#8217;ll have perfect hair, makeup, and teeth, even though I would imagine it was nearly impossible for women to achieve such looks in the era being portrayed on film.  Again, it&#8217;s more important to the filmmakers to make the characters relatable to modern audiences than it is to get the history right.</p>
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		<title>By: Occam's Beard</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-468027</link>
		<dc:creator>Occam's Beard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-468027</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;And that would be the Hoover Administration.&lt;/i&gt;

But it was seared, seared I tell you, into my memory.

You&#039;re absolutely right. Thanks for the clarification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And that would be the Hoover Administration.</i></p>
<p>But it was seared, seared I tell you, into my memory.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right. Thanks for the clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: FenelonSpoke</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-468017</link>
		<dc:creator>FenelonSpoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-468017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ed, The problem with the Lincoln Movie is perfectly expressed by the remarks made by some liberals at a Chinese Restaurant I was at. They were at another table and they had had just seen the film. I hadn&#039;t seen it yet, but one 20 something said, &quot;I don&#039;t understand how Lincoln was a Republican.&#039;&quot; Her friend remarked. &quot;Well, the parties shifted. It was the Southern Strategy.&quot; I mouthed &quot;No it wasn&#039;t&quot; under my breath .This is what they are taught by their education  and, by golly, it&#039;s unquestioned.  They have NO idea that it was the Republicans who were responsible for all the major civil rights legislation. Just &quot;The parties shifted&quot; answers all their concerns and the Republicans go back to being the party of evil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, The problem with the Lincoln Movie is perfectly expressed by the remarks made by some liberals at a Chinese Restaurant I was at. They were at another table and they had had just seen the film. I hadn&#8217;t seen it yet, but one 20 something said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t understand how Lincoln was a Republican.&#8217;&#8221; Her friend remarked. &#8220;Well, the parties shifted. It was the Southern Strategy.&#8221; I mouthed &#8220;No it wasn&#8217;t&#8221; under my breath .This is what they are taught by their education  and, by golly, it&#8217;s unquestioned.  They have NO idea that it was the Republicans who were responsible for all the major civil rights legislation. Just &#8220;The parties shifted&#8221; answers all their concerns and the Republicans go back to being the party of evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Zachriel</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-467953</link>
		<dc:creator>Zachriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 13:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-467953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Occam&#039;s Beard&lt;/b&gt;: &lt;i&gt;Also, to see left-wing hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty in its full malignant flower, consider in whose Administration the USPHS began the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. That would be 1932 … &lt;/i&gt;

And that would be the Hoover Administration. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Occam&#8217;s Beard</b>: <i>Also, to see left-wing hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty in its full malignant flower, consider in whose Administration the USPHS began the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. That would be 1932 … </i></p>
<p>And that would be the Hoover Administration.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover</a></p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-467809</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-467809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;Just as Tina Fey’s pretend quote from Sarah Palin about seeing Russia from her house replaced the actual quote from the real Sarah, so Oliver Stone’s movies have been regarded by way too many people as factual documentaries&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have been complaining locally about this since the early &quot;docudrama&quot; starring Barry Bostwick as George Washington.  It is especially those with less than critical minds who walk away believing that George Washington, FDR or Sarah Palin &lt;i&gt;said&lt;/i&gt;  those things.  No!  As we here know, in most cases a Hollywood writer &lt;i&gt;wrote&lt;/i&gt; those things.

Remember the response to the premier of &lt;i&gt;The Exorcist&lt;/i&gt;?  They claim that visits to psycologists and psychiatrists increased noticeably in the short term after the movie premiered.  This further reinforces the power that the optics of movies have.  How many people, even of critical mind, naturally remind themselves that a movie is story-telling and nothing more?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite=""><p>Just as Tina Fey’s pretend quote from Sarah Palin about seeing Russia from her house replaced the actual quote from the real Sarah, so Oliver Stone’s movies have been regarded by way too many people as factual documentaries</p></blockquote>
<p>I have been complaining locally about this since the early &#8220;docudrama&#8221; starring Barry Bostwick as George Washington.  It is especially those with less than critical minds who walk away believing that George Washington, FDR or Sarah Palin <i>said</i>  those things.  No!  As we here know, in most cases a Hollywood writer <i>wrote</i> those things.</p>
<p>Remember the response to the premier of <i>The Exorcist</i>?  They claim that visits to psycologists and psychiatrists increased noticeably in the short term after the movie premiered.  This further reinforces the power that the optics of movies have.  How many people, even of critical mind, naturally remind themselves that a movie is story-telling and nothing more?</p>
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		<title>By: Occam's Beard</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-467806</link>
		<dc:creator>Occam's Beard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 05:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-467806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For the record, I should say that I don&#039;t fault FDR either for the Tuskegee experiment, or for interning the nisei. He doubtless was unaware of the former, and as for the latter, different times, different concerns, plus the very real possibility of nisei acting as a fifth column. (Japanese in California and Hawaii in that era commonly sent their kids back to Japan for education; they lived and worked here, but many still considered themselves Japanese. Having lived and worked as an American abroad for many years, I understand, and used to say that if my host country ever went to war against the U.S., they&#039;d be very well-advised to intern my ass.)

So my comment wasn&#039;t a knock on FDR (I&#039;ll save the knocks for Social Security), but to point out the difference in treament had a Republican done anything remotely similar.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, I should say that I don&#8217;t fault FDR either for the Tuskegee experiment, or for interning the nisei. He doubtless was unaware of the former, and as for the latter, different times, different concerns, plus the very real possibility of nisei acting as a fifth column. (Japanese in California and Hawaii in that era commonly sent their kids back to Japan for education; they lived and worked here, but many still considered themselves Japanese. Having lived and worked as an American abroad for many years, I understand, and used to say that if my host country ever went to war against the U.S., they&#8217;d be very well-advised to intern my ass.)</p>
<p>So my comment wasn&#8217;t a knock on FDR (I&#8217;ll save the knocks for Social Security), but to point out the difference in treament had a Republican done anything remotely similar.</p>
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		<title>By: neo-neocon</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-467789</link>
		<dc:creator>neo-neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 04:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-467789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Occam&#039;s Beard: agreed.

Plus, if the later failure to treat with antibiotics had happened under Republicans, that fact would have been trumpeted to the skies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Occam&#8217;s Beard: agreed.</p>
<p>Plus, if the later failure to treat with antibiotics had happened under Republicans, that fact would have been trumpeted to the skies.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly NH</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-467778</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly NH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-467778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the dems have a huge history of racism, from the old deep south &amp; their KKK associations to FDR, tuskeegee, &amp; japanese internment, plus  Truman was willing to drop A bombs on Asians
right up to slick willy who never expressed even a bit of concern
over the Rawandan genocide because those were black africans.
MSM gives this stuff a good leaving alone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the dems have a huge history of racism, from the old deep south &amp; their KKK associations to FDR, tuskeegee, &amp; japanese internment, plus  Truman was willing to drop A bombs on Asians<br />
right up to slick willy who never expressed even a bit of concern<br />
over the Rawandan genocide because those were black africans.<br />
MSM gives this stuff a good leaving alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Occam's Beard</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2012/11/29/fdr-the-movies-presidential-reputations-and-history/#comment-467773</link>
		<dc:creator>Occam's Beard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=22354#comment-467773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, neo. 

Despite my simplistic take, I think the point remains: had this started under a Republican Administration, that fact would be blazened across the sky as a damning indictment (regardless of how innocuous and well-meant it was at the time).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, neo. </p>
<p>Despite my simplistic take, I think the point remains: had this started under a Republican Administration, that fact would be blazened across the sky as a damning indictment (regardless of how innocuous and well-meant it was at the time).</p>
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