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	<title>Comments on: Backing off on the debt ceiling battle</title>
	<atom:link href="http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/</link>
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		<title>By: Paulo McManus</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-508803</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulo McManus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 07:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-508803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We can  learn a lot from this guy. 

http://www.buzzsprout.com/3009/72562-would-you-raise-the-debt-limit]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can  learn a lot from this guy. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.buzzsprout.com/3009/72562-would-you-raise-the-debt-limit" rel="nofollow">http://www.buzzsprout.com/3009/72562-would-you-raise-the-debt-limit</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Aitken</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506862</link>
		<dc:creator>David Aitken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 21:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The R&#039;s should pass for continuing resolutions for the value of the revenues plus the current debt levels and a clause that says something like &quot;because there is not enough money to fund the following programs, they are terminated&quot;. That way 98 percent gets funded and 2 percent gets cut. Then send those to the Senate and see what they do. They don&#039;t have to shut down the whole thing, just tiny pieces of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The R&#8217;s should pass for continuing resolutions for the value of the revenues plus the current debt levels and a clause that says something like &#8220;because there is not enough money to fund the following programs, they are terminated&#8221;. That way 98 percent gets funded and 2 percent gets cut. Then send those to the Senate and see what they do. They don&#8217;t have to shut down the whole thing, just tiny pieces of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Otiose</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506847</link>
		<dc:creator>Otiose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 21:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JJ, I like the budget idea  - it&#039;s a great start with a lot of potential.

Perhaps the House should refuse to pass any continuing resolutions and respond only to an actual budget proposal from the Senate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ, I like the budget idea  &#8211; it&#8217;s a great start with a lot of potential.</p>
<p>Perhaps the House should refuse to pass any continuing resolutions and respond only to an actual budget proposal from the Senate.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Carlos</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506803</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;This is not the hill to die on&quot; reminds me of (was it Patton?): The point is not to die for your country, but to make the other SOB die for his country.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is not the hill to die on&#8221; reminds me of (was it Patton?): The point is not to die for your country, but to make the other SOB die for his country.</p>
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		<title>By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506776</link>
		<dc:creator>J.J. formerly Jimmy J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 19:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a quote from Representative James Lankford of Oklahoma who made this week&#039;s Republican remarks carried by Investor&#039;s Business Daily:

&quot;In fact, every year, the president is required by law to submit a budget proposal to Congress by February 4th. But the Obama administration has already informed Congress that for the fourth time in five years it will be late submitting a budget to your representatives. 

Unfortunately, the president has already missed more budget deadlines than any of his predecessors.

The House and Senate are also required by law to submit a budget each year…not surprisingly by April 15th, Tax Day. But the Democratic-run Senate hasn’t approved such a resolution for almost four years, 1,361 days to be exact. 

This is not the result of Washington gridlock. Majority Leader Harry Reid said it would be &#039;foolish&#039; for his party in the Senate to produce a budget. We disagree. With more than 16 trillion dollars in debt, we believe it is foolish not to have a budget.&quot;

The entire remarks are  available here:
http://tinyurl.com/aho6epj

Unfortunately, this will not be covered in the MSM.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a quote from Representative James Lankford of Oklahoma who made this week&#8217;s Republican remarks carried by Investor&#8217;s Business Daily:</p>
<p>&#8220;In fact, every year, the president is required by law to submit a budget proposal to Congress by February 4th. But the Obama administration has already informed Congress that for the fourth time in five years it will be late submitting a budget to your representatives. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the president has already missed more budget deadlines than any of his predecessors.</p>
<p>The House and Senate are also required by law to submit a budget each year…not surprisingly by April 15th, Tax Day. But the Democratic-run Senate hasn’t approved such a resolution for almost four years, 1,361 days to be exact. </p>
<p>This is not the result of Washington gridlock. Majority Leader Harry Reid said it would be &#8216;foolish&#8217; for his party in the Senate to produce a budget. We disagree. With more than 16 trillion dollars in debt, we believe it is foolish not to have a budget.&#8221;</p>
<p>The entire remarks are  available here:<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/aho6epj" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/aho6epj</a></p>
<p>Unfortunately, this will not be covered in the MSM.</p>
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		<title>By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506771</link>
		<dc:creator>J.J. formerly Jimmy J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Otiose, I could not agree more with your comment.

We have to pick our battles very carefully  and not expect to win very  many until a majority of the voters begin to get the picture that we see.  The one thing we have  going for us is that the ballot box (not  the cartridge box) is still honored in most places in the  country. (Chicago being a notable exception).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otiose, I could not agree more with your comment.</p>
<p>We have to pick our battles very carefully  and not expect to win very  many until a majority of the voters begin to get the picture that we see.  The one thing we have  going for us is that the ballot box (not  the cartridge box) is still honored in most places in the  country. (Chicago being a notable exception).</p>
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		<title>By: neo-neocon</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506751</link>
		<dc:creator>neo-neocon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[blert: I don&#039;t know where you&#039;re getting your information about the retired being Democrats, but it certainly hasn&#039;t been true in recent years as far as I can tell.  See the age charts &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/11/10/opinion/marshpdf.html?ref=sunday-review&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Romney won amonbg the 60+ crowd 54 to 45.  What&#039;s more, that demographic has gone Republican since 2004, according to the chart.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>blert: I don&#8217;t know where you&#8217;re getting your information about the retired being Democrats, but it certainly hasn&#8217;t been true in recent years as far as I can tell.  See the age charts <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/11/10/opinion/marshpdf.html?ref=sunday-review" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Romney won amonbg the 60+ crowd 54 to 45.  What&#8217;s more, that demographic has gone Republican since 2004, according to the chart.</p>
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		<title>By: Otiose</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506731</link>
		<dc:creator>Otiose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Krauthammer, Neo,and many good points made.  This is the issue to be discussed.

All the fervor for a hill to die on though might better be redirected.  We shouldn&#039;t emulate the WWII Japanese for whom tactical retreat was something to despise.  After all as Krauthammer and others point out the other side won the election holding on to both the Presidency and the Senate, which guarantees certain bad trends (that started prior to Obama although he&#039;s accelerated them) will do a lot of damage to our standard of living before there&#039;s any hope of bringing them under control/reversing them.

Anyway, we need to forget about which hill to die on and look for the hill they can die in front of.  Americans got caught short in Korea and had to retreat all the way back to Pusan before the &#039;other side&#039; revealed weaknesses we could exploit to turn things around.

We should look for ways to resist and stop the implementation of bad laws and policies, keeping in mind we can&#039;t impose the solutions we would likely prefer.  Keep in mind also that the other side has the executive and the Senate and they can return the favor too pretty much stopping/resisting anything we want to do with at least as much fervor and righteous indignation as we can muster.

Unfortunately as important as the House is, the real damage is being done out of our reach entirely over at the Fed.  As long as the Fed is willing to monetize debt issued by the other side to hand out the pay offs to rich and poor alike, the markets (for the time being at least) will remain quiet (interest rates will stay low for now) and the debt accumulation will continue (i.e. we will stay on the road to ruin).  If the Fed were acting properly the markets would likely have already acted (by raising interest rates) to force the President and Congress to reign in spending and debt accumulation.  

If the House takes (or refuses to take) actions that are seen by the majority as the Cause for serious market turmoil then some seriously righteous anger will fall onto Republican heads and be reflected in the next election - i.e. digging an even deeper hole.  We need to think twice and then act because the risk is that we could end up with the other side in control of all three again and this time they might move things even further their way.

Anyway we need to deal with the situation as it is.  Think of the voter as a 400 lb fat person and you know they need to cut back on the ST gratification for the LT benefits.  Go ahead and try a real life experiment - find such a person and try to get them to lose 250 lbs.  Most people in that situation don&#039;t get there by having too much self control.  If you choose force (withholding the food) don&#039;t expect them to return you to office next opportunity.  

On the positive side (yes there is one) please take note that Obama and many of his supporters are very happy and confident  - they&#039;re rushing to surround Pusan.  They are dropping much of the pretense they&#039;ve used to get elected and are much more open about what they really think and want to do.  

Obama used to say how important keeping debt levels down was, but not any more.  He says now that his Obamacare is the solution to the increasing debt (don&#039;t ask).

He was supportive of the right wars and the American military supremacy but he is clearly on a trajectory to gut our military and its capabilities.  I believe we are overextended, but the way he will cut will invite only more trouble and losses (e.g. China will begin skirmishing with Japan over those islands).

I got the impression at times that Obama and other Democrats were card carrying NRA members, but that pretense is gone with many of their more outspoken people saying we need to get rid of the 2nd Amendment - and they say this without blushing as they defend rights not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution - living document indeed!

A little softer perhaps, but I&#039;m amazed at the surly public behavior the President exhibits in dealing with his opposition (actually anyone who disagrees with him).  We still have four years - this will only get worse.

There is no easy obvious course of action, but we must choose points of confrontation carefully with some level of confidence that any bad repercussions will be tied to the other side by the 400 lb voter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krauthammer, Neo,and many good points made.  This is the issue to be discussed.</p>
<p>All the fervor for a hill to die on though might better be redirected.  We shouldn&#8217;t emulate the WWII Japanese for whom tactical retreat was something to despise.  After all as Krauthammer and others point out the other side won the election holding on to both the Presidency and the Senate, which guarantees certain bad trends (that started prior to Obama although he&#8217;s accelerated them) will do a lot of damage to our standard of living before there&#8217;s any hope of bringing them under control/reversing them.</p>
<p>Anyway, we need to forget about which hill to die on and look for the hill they can die in front of.  Americans got caught short in Korea and had to retreat all the way back to Pusan before the &#8216;other side&#8217; revealed weaknesses we could exploit to turn things around.</p>
<p>We should look for ways to resist and stop the implementation of bad laws and policies, keeping in mind we can&#8217;t impose the solutions we would likely prefer.  Keep in mind also that the other side has the executive and the Senate and they can return the favor too pretty much stopping/resisting anything we want to do with at least as much fervor and righteous indignation as we can muster.</p>
<p>Unfortunately as important as the House is, the real damage is being done out of our reach entirely over at the Fed.  As long as the Fed is willing to monetize debt issued by the other side to hand out the pay offs to rich and poor alike, the markets (for the time being at least) will remain quiet (interest rates will stay low for now) and the debt accumulation will continue (i.e. we will stay on the road to ruin).  If the Fed were acting properly the markets would likely have already acted (by raising interest rates) to force the President and Congress to reign in spending and debt accumulation.  </p>
<p>If the House takes (or refuses to take) actions that are seen by the majority as the Cause for serious market turmoil then some seriously righteous anger will fall onto Republican heads and be reflected in the next election &#8211; i.e. digging an even deeper hole.  We need to think twice and then act because the risk is that we could end up with the other side in control of all three again and this time they might move things even further their way.</p>
<p>Anyway we need to deal with the situation as it is.  Think of the voter as a 400 lb fat person and you know they need to cut back on the ST gratification for the LT benefits.  Go ahead and try a real life experiment &#8211; find such a person and try to get them to lose 250 lbs.  Most people in that situation don&#8217;t get there by having too much self control.  If you choose force (withholding the food) don&#8217;t expect them to return you to office next opportunity.  </p>
<p>On the positive side (yes there is one) please take note that Obama and many of his supporters are very happy and confident  &#8211; they&#8217;re rushing to surround Pusan.  They are dropping much of the pretense they&#8217;ve used to get elected and are much more open about what they really think and want to do.  </p>
<p>Obama used to say how important keeping debt levels down was, but not any more.  He says now that his Obamacare is the solution to the increasing debt (don&#8217;t ask).</p>
<p>He was supportive of the right wars and the American military supremacy but he is clearly on a trajectory to gut our military and its capabilities.  I believe we are overextended, but the way he will cut will invite only more trouble and losses (e.g. China will begin skirmishing with Japan over those islands).</p>
<p>I got the impression at times that Obama and other Democrats were card carrying NRA members, but that pretense is gone with many of their more outspoken people saying we need to get rid of the 2nd Amendment &#8211; and they say this without blushing as they defend rights not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution &#8211; living document indeed!</p>
<p>A little softer perhaps, but I&#8217;m amazed at the surly public behavior the President exhibits in dealing with his opposition (actually anyone who disagrees with him).  We still have four years &#8211; this will only get worse.</p>
<p>There is no easy obvious course of action, but we must choose points of confrontation carefully with some level of confidence that any bad repercussions will be tied to the other side by the 400 lb voter.</p>
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		<title>By: J.J. formerly Jimmy J.</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506694</link>
		<dc:creator>J.J. formerly Jimmy J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 16:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don Carlos said, &quot;All I can say is that Germany in 1933 is my historical model for the present times.&quot;

I&#039;m thinking more like Argentina in 2000. Take a look at what happened there. Another somewhat  less apt model is Zimbabwe since 1989.

The downward spiral will be much slower until the bitter end because this country has so much  more productive capacity than Argentina or Zimbabwe. I think  another fiscal crisis like 2008 with a 30% to 40% drop in asset values would create more deflation. If enough producing power (food, energy, manufacturing, etc.) was lost as to create shortages along with the market  being flooded with cash, then we could see inflation.

The most  likely  outcome is  we wake up  one morning,  as they did in Argentina, and find out all our dollars are  worthless as a new currency replaces it.  Don&#039;t forget that the government can also outlaw using gold as money or even owning  it. Remember FDR?  There  is no simple answer. 

I expect that the Federal government will propose selling  assets. They own a huge  amount of real estate and buildings all  over the country. That  would assuage the creditors for awhile.

blert said, &quot;I don’t know where it comes from, but the notion that the President can shut off Social Security FIRST is absurd.&quot;

Yeah, but Obama has already said in a press conference that SS and millitary  pay were likely  to be withheld. See this:
http://tinyurl.com/5uahr4c
 Has Obama given us any evidence that he cares about the laws?  Once the debt ceiling  is  reached and they proceed to cut, the cuts, IMO, will be  aimed at the demographic that will scream  the loudest - people who need the money to pay their everyday bills. The outraged hue and cry is what would stampede the Republicans to come back to  the table and raise the  debt ceiling. And who gets blamed for it? The Republicans because that is the narrative the MSM will trumpet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Carlos said, &#8220;All I can say is that Germany in 1933 is my historical model for the present times.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking more like Argentina in 2000. Take a look at what happened there. Another somewhat  less apt model is Zimbabwe since 1989.</p>
<p>The downward spiral will be much slower until the bitter end because this country has so much  more productive capacity than Argentina or Zimbabwe. I think  another fiscal crisis like 2008 with a 30% to 40% drop in asset values would create more deflation. If enough producing power (food, energy, manufacturing, etc.) was lost as to create shortages along with the market  being flooded with cash, then we could see inflation.</p>
<p>The most  likely  outcome is  we wake up  one morning,  as they did in Argentina, and find out all our dollars are  worthless as a new currency replaces it.  Don&#8217;t forget that the government can also outlaw using gold as money or even owning  it. Remember FDR?  There  is no simple answer. </p>
<p>I expect that the Federal government will propose selling  assets. They own a huge  amount of real estate and buildings all  over the country. That  would assuage the creditors for awhile.</p>
<p>blert said, &#8220;I don’t know where it comes from, but the notion that the President can shut off Social Security FIRST is absurd.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, but Obama has already said in a press conference that SS and millitary  pay were likely  to be withheld. See this:<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/5uahr4c" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/5uahr4c</a><br />
 Has Obama given us any evidence that he cares about the laws?  Once the debt ceiling  is  reached and they proceed to cut, the cuts, IMO, will be  aimed at the demographic that will scream  the loudest &#8211; people who need the money to pay their everyday bills. The outraged hue and cry is what would stampede the Republicans to come back to  the table and raise the  debt ceiling. And who gets blamed for it? The Republicans because that is the narrative the MSM will trumpet.</p>
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		<title>By: blert</title>
		<link>http://neoneocon.com/2013/01/18/backing-off-on-the-debt-ceiling-battle/#comment-506486</link>
		<dc:creator>blert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/?p=23911#comment-506486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JJ...

I don&#039;t know where it comes from, but the notion that the President can shut off Social Security FIRST is absurd.

The Democrat Party -- over the years -- has rigged the laws such that it&#039;s the last thing that a president can do. (&#039;Cause most of that time the president was a Republican.)

The retired are STILL a Democrat demographic. They&#039;re NOT going to be touched.

The first place that Barry is going to cut is DoD and Federal matching funds to the states. The first is a Republican demographic. The second pinches a fist-full of Republican governors -- they out number the Democrat governors.

Federal matching funds are STAGGERING. They&#039;ve reached the point that they account for as much as half of state cash-flow -- especially in those states that have generally low taxation. (Conservative)

The next target would be slow paying every manner of Federal contractor. That&#039;s what the states have ALWAYS done.

The other prime target would be Big Medicine. Because the Federal hand is already so heavy, it&#039;d be short work to re-vet payouts and re-tune co-pays.

Once 0bamaCare kicks in -- many a plug can be pulled.

As the crisis unfolds, Barry will, of course, propose a batch of &#039;emergency&#039; tax measures. 

(Please, don&#039;t throw me in that brier patch!) 

-----------

Ultimately, as the crisis swamps the ship of state, Congress will raise the retirement age for Social Security -- and all will be right with the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JJ&#8230;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know where it comes from, but the notion that the President can shut off Social Security FIRST is absurd.</p>
<p>The Democrat Party &#8212; over the years &#8212; has rigged the laws such that it&#8217;s the last thing that a president can do. (&#8216;Cause most of that time the president was a Republican.)</p>
<p>The retired are STILL a Democrat demographic. They&#8217;re NOT going to be touched.</p>
<p>The first place that Barry is going to cut is DoD and Federal matching funds to the states. The first is a Republican demographic. The second pinches a fist-full of Republican governors &#8212; they out number the Democrat governors.</p>
<p>Federal matching funds are STAGGERING. They&#8217;ve reached the point that they account for as much as half of state cash-flow &#8212; especially in those states that have generally low taxation. (Conservative)</p>
<p>The next target would be slow paying every manner of Federal contractor. That&#8217;s what the states have ALWAYS done.</p>
<p>The other prime target would be Big Medicine. Because the Federal hand is already so heavy, it&#8217;d be short work to re-vet payouts and re-tune co-pays.</p>
<p>Once 0bamaCare kicks in &#8212; many a plug can be pulled.</p>
<p>As the crisis unfolds, Barry will, of course, propose a batch of &#8216;emergency&#8217; tax measures. </p>
<p>(Please, don&#8217;t throw me in that brier patch!) </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Ultimately, as the crisis swamps the ship of state, Congress will raise the retirement age for Social Security &#8212; and all will be right with the world.</p>
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