February 4th, 2013

Postscript to…

today’s earlier post “The latest battle in the Republican Civil War”:

Two good examples of what I was talking about in that post are the subject headings of two emails I received today from Tea Party mailing lists. The first was titled, “We are under attack by Karl Rove.” The second was headed, “Rove Declares War on Tea Party.”

The copy in the second began as follows:

The battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party has begun. On one side is the Tea Party. On the other side stand Karl Rove and his establishment team, posing as tacticians while quietly undermining conservatism. Yesterday, the New York Times reported…

Fabulous. Keep going in that direction, and the only people you’ll be serving are the good folks at the New York Times, who are chuckling at the seething pot they’ve stirred.

Refer back to my original post for my longer and more detailed opinion on all of this, but for now I’ll just reiterate that I get the fact that these two segments of the Republican Party disagree. That disagreement goes back a long way; I even remember the phrase “Rockefeller Republicans” from my youth.

But this sort of rabble-rousing hyperbole is destructive, and I’m heartily sick of it. Not that that’s going to affect anything, but it’s how I have come to feel. I keep thinking that it’s a great way to marginalize both wings of the party for the foreseeable future.

39 Responses to “Postscript to…”

  1. parker Says:

    I understand your frustration, but the issue is fiscal restraint. Without a major party (repubs) actually demonstrating it will exercise fiscal restraint (and all the painful consequences involved) while simultaneously educating the voters why this is necessary, all is lost.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnB4qvO3xOk and they do not, as the very young, yet realize the stink of the new black fiscal death. Most disheartening is the lack of understanding by their 30 something parents who vote for enslaving their children. Ashes, ashes indeed. They vote to burn it all down.

  2. neo-neocon Says:

    parker: do you really doubt that, at this point, the Republicans (even “establishment” ones) would at least exercise more fiscal restraint than the Democrats?

  3. vanderleun Says:

    If this keeps up I’m going to have to upgrade my old saying to: “Anybody to the right of Bill Clinton, they thirst for death.”

    Who is running these mailing lists and organizations? Conservatives afflicted with tertiary syphilis being spun in their chairs by the window babbling “The sun, mother, the sun?”

  4. southpaw Says:

    Neo – what should the Tea Party do? Why is the far left wing of the democrat party able to control or influence their party without being marginalized or kicked out? I understand the frustration, but how is it the far left wing of the democrat party can work withing the Democrat party, while the conservative wing of the Republican party is viewed as too extreme to be practical? Why would anybody expect the Tea Party to react differently than they have when the Republicans establishment have made it clear they want the Tea Party to go away?
    You’ve acknowledged the Republicans pursuit of compromise on illegal aliens and a number of issues are unlikely to broaden their base. The Tea Party is about the only reason the House was able to regain a majority in 2010. The bright spots in the Senate are mostly Tea Party members or favorites.
    What is the right approach for them to affect policy that’s not simply voting with the Republican establishment, which has been losing ground since 2006?
    I get the idea that an internal war is going to sink them for a long time, but I’m not hearing any concessions from the establishment to sit down and see how to bring them on board – it’s get on board with them, or nothing.
    I’ve listened the house leadership — Boeners friends describe the conservative wing as “chuckleheads” and other names that indicate they’re willing to compromise with Democrates, but can’t find common ground with their own. The point is I don’t think the Tea Party is the real problem. I think the Republican party has a problem listening to a large body of potential voters while chasing others that are a much longer term project. The first rule of politics is shore up your base – Obama has done that. He’s gone left and hard left.
    An equal and opposite response by conservatives is to be expected — Republicans need to figure out how to take advantage of that energy, not alienate it. But that’s all their doing. They refuse to acknowledge they are going to lose without the support of the Tea Party conservatives. Rove and company are thick headed and arrogant to believe otherwise. What’s most discouraging is they learned nothing in the last election except they didn’t get Hispanics to vote for them. They didn’t get a lot of conservatives either, but their chances of turning out conservatives is better than converting whole segments with whom they have no message to share.
    So I do understand the frustration, but I honestly don’t know what you think they should do. My opinion is the outreach needs to come from the Republicans, because you’re right – they’re both doomed if they aren’t on the same page.

  5. oldflyer Says:

    The Tea Party as a loosely organized movement of people with shared principles was a wonderful thing.

    Unfortunately, it became organized, then doctrinaire. Inevitable I suppose.

    Perhaps it would be nice if there were time to build a true conservative party from the ground-up and let it compete in the arena of ideas–to paraphrase Rush. There is no time. The Statists have to be stopped; now. There is only one weapon to counter them, and that is the Republican Party. Anyone who cannot unite behind the most Conservative, electable candidate is nearly as bad as the Statists in my mind. Maybe worse, because they are acting from stupidity, while the Statists are acting from self-interest, or in some cases honest belief.

    You are right on Neo.

  6. KLSmith Says:

    southpaw: very well said.

  7. Pat Says:

    I resent the idea that Tea Party folk are far to the right of the GOP mainstream. Check our values:

    “FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY means not overspending, and not burdening our children and grandchildren with our bills. In the words of Thomas Jefferson: “the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity [is] swindling futurity on a large scale.” A more fiscally responsible government will take fewer taxes from our paychecks.

    CONSTITUTIONALLY LIMITED GOVERNMENT means power resides with the people and not with the government. Governing should be done at the most local level possible where it can be held accountable. America’s founders believed that government power should be limited, enumerated, and constrained by our Constitution. Tea Party Patriots agree. The American people make this country great, not our government.

    FREE MARKET ECONOMICS made America an economic superpower that for at least two centuries provided subsequent generations of Americans more opportunities and higher standards of living. An erosion of our free markets through government intervention is at the heart of America’s current economic decline, stagnating jobs, and spiraling debt and deficits. Failures in government programs and government-controlled financial markets helped spark the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Further government interventions and takeovers have made this Great Recession longer and deeper. A renewed focus on free markets will lead to a more vibrant economy creating jobs and higher standards of living for future generations.”

    It is hard to conceive of a fiscal conservative who would not agree with these values. But, send them to DC and most of them forget these principles. Once there, they work for DC, not you. Us Tea Party folk think we deserve better of our congress critters.

    I would commend this 2012 speech by Sarah Palin to those who wonder why nothing ever gets fixed in DC.

    I’m close to not caring any more. The people voted to become the United Socialist States of America. Let them have it. I’m retiring soon and I’ll collect social security, even though I don’t need it. The young suckers who voted for Obama are paying for my bonus income, just as my social security payments were used to pay current beneficiaries.

    I see much sense in this book.

  8. neo-neocon Says:

    southpaw: the Tea Party should stop sending me (and others) emails designed to make the recipient perceive Karl Rove as an evil fake Republican bent on destroying them. That would be a good start.

    Beyond that, I think the Tea Party is doing just fine. It should promote the candidates it thinks best. Primary those it wants to. And, as I’ve written before, try to vet and advise the candidates it does support in a helpful and constructive manner. Don’t throw its weight behind someone who is unable to articulate his/her own views properly, or whose views are bizarre (Akins comes to mind).

    The Tea Party should not regard the Republican “establishment” as its sworn enemies, but as other Republicans with a right to their positions, and a right to support the candidates they think best, just as the Tea Party has a right to do.

    And I’d love to see both sides in that vaunted word, a dialogue, to get to see what they both have in common rather than what tears them apart. I’d like to see them working together on the things they do agree on, because I think those things exist.

    This doesn’t seem like rocket science to me.

  9. M J R Says:

    southpaw, 11:01 pm —

    Caveat — painting with a broad brush here; exceptions will exist, and not as rarities. But I contend the overall drift is on target.

    Major lack of symmetry:

    Democrat side: the mainstream Democrats more or less agree with the lefty wingnuts, but just want to step more slowly, both out of pragmatism and for fear of losing their offices. They’re not as strident, but they agree with the lefty paradigm.

    Republican side: the mainstream Republicans detest the Tea Partyers. They may use the Tea Party talking points every four years, but otherwise they shudder at the thought of taking those talking points seriously.

    Not a symmetry but a leftward yearning:

    Just as mainstream Democrats think of lefty wingnuts as being a little strident and in a bit of a hurry, mainstream Republicans think of mainstream Democrats as being a little strident and in a bit of a hurry. They’re all part of the established political class, going to the same cocktail parties and all that.

    But the Tea Partyers do not think of the mainstream Republicans as being timid or as going too slowly. They think of them as being just like Democrats, a little difference of opinion here or there, but what’s a little difference among friends? — in a pejorative, RINOs.

    We done got a big problem here, brothers and sisters!

    —— —— —— —— ——

    In a related issue, my son is a hard Libertarian, and he was ^incensed^ at the dismissive treatment of the Ron Paul faction by the Romney establishment before, during, and after the convention.

    We done got a big problem here . . .

  10. vanderleun Says:

    This is like watching two tribes of cockroaches fight over a rotten fortune cookie. Schmucks vs Putzes

  11. vanderleun Says:

    And if you think fortune cookies don’t get rotten, STFU.

  12. M J R Says:


    Who Were the Geniuses Who Came Up With That One?
    Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog
    Monday, February 04, 2013

    There was a time in the 80s when standup comedians were required by law to wear loud blazers and louder ties and to demand answers to life’s unanswerable questions about senseless products, airline regulations and the other inconveniences of modern life. “Who were the geniuses who came up with that one?” was their demand.

    The Republican Party, which has been a joke for almost as long as it has been a party, is in the hands of those same geniuses. Fresh off two defeats in presidential elections, they have come up with the plan of all plans to get back on top.

    First, they will nuke their own grassroots by raising money to attack deviant Tea Party candidates and protect true conservatives who support amnesty, tax shelters and tax hikes. Considering that the Tea Party was responsible for the first Republican victories since 2004, spending money going after it is bound to attract voters and improve prospects for more victories in 2014.

    Second, they will add 11 million Democratic voters to the rolls through amnesty for illegal aliens as part of a brilliant plan to stop being a national party and settle down to fighting pitched battles for local council seats. Even the geniuses behind the election polling and ORCA should be able to win a few those.

    [Read more: http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/02/who-were-geniuses-who-came-up-with-that.html%5D

  13. Daniel Says:

    The battle had to come.

    That it comes immediately after a failed election is good.

    In a little over a year, though, I expect everyone to kiss big sloppy wet ones, have kinky damp makeup sex, bring in therapists or do whatever it takes to get back together under one flag.

    If not, then we’ll be ruled from the hard left for the next twenty years.

  14. Steve Ducharme Says:

    I remember as a younger man in my early 20’s reading a lot of Will Rogers quotes and thinking “what a negative minded curmudgeon he was”. I had the general attitude that he was great at the folksy jokes but was wasting his skill commenting “about” the game instead of getting “in” the game.. sigh.. Oh to be in my early 20’s again. In a nutshell, today at 49 I see him as wise (and very witty sage) for the ages.

    I’m sorry but I will never vote for a D or an R again. There is so much mind numbing stupidity on display in both parties that I no longer wish to be involved with either of them. Yes, the Libertarian party has it’s own issues (stemming mostly from amateurism) but they essentially have only one area I disagree with them on…. and compared to D’s and R’s it’s a refreshing change. Some day maybe enough people will choose to “waste their votes” the way I am choosing to and if that happens there may be hope. Till then I am going to sit back and just watch the death spiral and pray that I survive the crash when it arrives. And I now believe intellectually and “in my bones” that it is inevitable.

    See you all on the other side.

  15. expat Says:


    I’m with you 100% on this. I agree the establishment Reps have gotten complacent about finances and pork and getting along, but The Tea Party has often focussed on finding people with “principles,” giving little thought to whether those people have the competence to build policy from them. One side seems to be a bit too much business as usual; the other seems to be looking for a new messiah.

    Karl Rove isn’t the problem (nor is he the solution). The problem is that problems are difficult. I have little confidence that conservative grand schemes will be any more successful than those of the left. I prefer moving in a more conservative direction, explaining to the public why the direction is good, and then reviewing and adjusting measures when they don’t do the job. Demolishing existing systems in one day will cause chaos. Changing things one state at a time seems more promising because we have a chance to learn from one another.

    M J R,
    I have serious problems with the Paul supporters. They frequently seemed in blog comments to be more interested in the availabilty of pot than anything else. And I think they are downright naive when it comes to foreign policy issues. I do listen to libertarian viewpoints when they are presented by informed people. But I did not see a lot of Paul supporters trying to become informed. The movement seemed to be more of a youth rebellion.

  16. southernjames Says:

    We lost and we’re losing and we’re going to continue to lose, in part, because the statist media propaganda machine is so very successful.

    I think the reasons a lot of Republicans (and I don’t just mean the politicians) distanced themselves from the Tea Party, is because of the absolute onslaught of defamatory propaganda, non-stop, 24/7 – which successfully made the Tea Party into a pack of old white, right wing nuts. And that is what most people now believe; even though they will look you in the eye and deny that THEY can be brainwashed. Oh no, not them. Actual facts don’t matter anymore. Every single day, bald-faced lies are told by the left, and the media will not call them on it. Why just yesterday I believe, our President told lie number 749 of his presidency, by stating that we are having an “epidemic of gun violence.” No matter that in FACT, gun violence has steadily dropped since the mid 90’s. No matter — the lie will be repeated often enough (and EVERY shooting will make national news ad nauseum, and the Newton children will continue to be exploited, etc., etc.) – your average low information non-gun ownnig American will begin to live in FEAR of the existence of firearms.

    Anyway, I digress. Back to the Tea Party — play a word association game with a typical a-political suburban moderate voter — you know, the type who gets 90% their news from The Daily Show and their MSN default “home” screen on their work computer. Say “tea party” and sooner or later the word “racist” or “old white people” will be triggered.

    You think this is an accident?

    The MSM slime machine destroyed Sarah Palin and made her completely unelectable as a VP or Pres. They successfully marginalized the “Tea Party” label in the same way. Kooks. Kinda dumb. Out of touch. Not a part of the cool kids club. They are now in the process of trying to do the same thing to the NRA. Watch closely. Pay attention.

    Then of course, as Neo has hammered — the “stupid” party includes its voting members and not just its politicians. “Tea Party” conservatives have been bleating and braying that, if the GOP establishment had had its way, Charlie Crist the Rockefeller big govt jerk would have been our senator from Fla, and not Rubio. “Tea Party” conservatives, are the reason Rubio won. True indeed.

    But…..just you wait. Ann Coulter – the “conservative” who had a school girl crush on Chris Christie of all people — is already sliming Rubio for his stance on immigration. And so…..(sigh)……it starts all over again. Deja f–king vu. 3 years from now, some pompous “principled” and “true” conservative will be posting on this site saying “When the GOP gives me a “real” conservative, I’ll vote for him. I’m not voting for Rubio the RINO! We need to hit rock bottom!! “

  17. artfldgr Says:

    judicial view…

    In 1982, the Republican National Committee (“RNC”) and the Democratic National Committee (“DNC”) entered into a consent decree (the “Decree” or “Consent Decree”), which is national in scope, limiting the RNC’s ability to engage or assist in voter fraud prevention unless the RNC obtains the court’s approval in advance.

    refrain from undertaking any ballot security activities in polling places or election districts where the racial or ethnic composition of such districts is a factor in the decision to conduct, or the actual conduct of, such activities there and where a purpose or significant effect of such activities is to deter qualified voters from voting; and the conduct of such activities disproportionately in or directed toward districts that have a substantial proportion of racial or ethnic populations shall be considered relevant evidence of the existence of such a factor and purpose.


  18. artfldgr Says:

    and another point in the power of PC thanks to the ladies and their control over the social arena…

    those people discussing the future may want to update their calanders given that they are much like the mucisiancs in that danny kaye movie, locked away talking amongst themselves so much that they never knew what transpired in the world that negated their conversations.

    well, its interesting, but no one is talking about the key things that are most important. of course they dont think its important, but when the common core education is teaching and requiring things and the conversations have no idea its that far ahead of them

    Texas 6th graders assigned to design flag for new socialist nation


    Sixth-grade children in many Texas public schools are being tasked with designing flags for a new socialist nation as part of the state’s curriculum

    “Notice socialist/communist nations use symbolism on their flags representing various aspects of their economic system. Imagine a new socialist nation is creating a flag and you have been put in charge of creating a flag,” says a lesson plan being used as part of CSCOPE, the curriculum being used by over 70 percent of Texas school districts.

    70 percent… eh?

    “Use symbolism to represent aspects of socialism/communism on your flag. What kind of symbolism/colors would you use?” the lesson plan asks.

    and note how the mask is off and suddenly communism and socialism are the same not different

    and remembering that a committee with delegated powers is a SOVIET

    “Committee Chairman Dan Patrick, R-Houston, called it ‘a mess.’ One witness compared the system to ‘mind control,’ and an algebra teacher wept as he described quitting because he felt he was ‘aiding and abetting a crime’ by using CSCOPE in his classroom,” the AP reported.

    CSCOPE is the prelude to having the Obama Common Core Standards in our schools. Via our Texas School Superintendents, who are studying how to implement Common Core, our state Education services centers are setting in place the perfect technology framework called CSCOPE


    “On top of this,” the Review said, “no one is allowed to view the CSCOPE lessons except teachers who had to sign a gag-order not to tell anyone about the content of the lessons.”

    had to sign a gag order to keep the education secret from the parents and everyone else… and its obamas new common core..

    too bad we cant go back to the discussions of how his uncle in kenya faciliated the overthrow of the state by communists funded by russia through a school…

  19. Eric Says:

    As someone who gets his info from the MSM and is not a Tea Party member, I believe the problem is popular perception.

    The Tea Party organized to get some members elected to Congress and then stopped there. They neglected the absolutely necessary step of establishing and reinforcing – non-stop – their platform to the people. ALL the American people.

    The battle for public understanding and acceptance must be constant and the highest priority end in its own right. The Tea Party must produce a strong cohesive narrative and sell it non-stop to the public. Instead, the Tea Party has confined itself to an echo chamber, and thus allowed itself to be strawman’ed into the margins.

    Getting the Tea Party elected is a good step but it is is only one part of the solution. The Tea Party needs true activists who advance and grow the popular movement and play the long game, not just think in terms of elected office.

    Look up blogger Mencius Moldbug’s writings on the “Cathedral”, his term for cooperating media, academia, education, and entertainment entities that set the trend of democratic (small d) popular politics. For the most part, the government doesn’t set but rather follows the political trends set by the Cathedral. The Cathedral is the source. The Tea Party was mistaken in believing elected office is the source.

    As far as ethnic groups, rather than try to win over Latinos as 1st step, I recommend the GOP start with the low hanging group of winning *back* Asian voters. As recently as the Clinton years, the GOP held a solid majority of the Asian vote. Asian values and middle-class socio-economic indicators haven’t markedly changed since then. Asians should still be supporting Republicans. That the GOP somehow lost the Asian vote in a scant 20 years is an indictment of the GOP, not Asian voters who haven’t changed that much. Win back the Asian vote and the GOP will have a working model to approach potential voters in other ethnic groups.

  20. Eric Says:

    Edit: I recommend the GOP start with the low hanging FRUIT of winning *back* Asian voters.

  21. Eric Says:

    As far as the Tea Party vs GOP establishment internecine conflict, it’s rational on both sides.

    The Tea Party didn’t originate within the GOP. The Tea Party and GOP work together; they’re not family.

    The Tea Party was a grassroots movement based on principles. They’re idealists. They lacked the pragmatic means to reach elected office and work on policy. The GOP, in a business relationship, offered the vehicle for the Tea Party to elect Tea Party candidates. As a grassroots movement, the Tea Party’s side of the bargain was the pragmatic offer to add to the GOP’s voters via a growing pro-GOP populist movement to counteract the Dems populist movement.

    The Tea Party is idealist and the GOP is pragmatic. Pragmatists may generally share similar values as the idealists, but their priorities are concrete in the near term. Thus pragmatists often disappoint idealists whose priorities are firmly set on their long-term vision. Hybrid pragmatic idealists, who are badly needed by the Tea Party and the GOP, will do what’s necessary in the near term while always oriented to achieving the long-term vision.

    The GOP delivered its side of the deal. However, the Tea Party failed to deliver an expanding popular base of support. Once the Tea Party got members elected to Congress, their grassroots movement stalled out and neglected to grow a pro-GOP populist movement to compete with the Dems populist movement.

    Is it any wonder the pragmatic GOP establishment is disappointed with the Tea Party idealists and now seeking to pull back from its contract with the Tea Party?

    In order to deliver on its side of the bargain with the GOP, the Tea Party must work back to basics and re-focus its mission on expanding as a populist movement that will compete head-on with the Dems populist movement. That means political activists and ‘community organizers’ need to return to the fore of the Tea Party.

  22. T Says:

    In his current USAToday article, Glenn Reynolds quotes jerry Pournelle. The observation is relevant to this discussion (emphasis mine):

    As science fiction writer Jerry Pournelle wrote in 2008, “We have always known that eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. It’s worse now, because capture of government is so much more important than it once was. There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time — not during most of your lifetimes, and for much of mine — and it will probably never be true again.

    Read the entire article:


  23. Eric Says:

    One more thing: The Tea Party needs to improve its urban bases of operations.

  24. holmes Says:

    What expat said.

    The response of the TP to this is really very insecure though and it’s unrealistic. It had some mixed success, as did the R’s, in choosing candidates. And again, generally, it’s an electorate problem. But the TP is not ready for prime time and it doesn’t have the apparatus necessary for national and local/state campaigns.

    What’s hilarious is that the Left walks in lockstep with each other, even when their interests are clearly in opposition. They’re a much more autocratic organization, they get their marching orders and go do their part, whereas the right is far more democratic in its approach.

  25. Eric Says:

    holmes: “But the TP is not ready for prime time and it doesn’t have the apparatus necessary for national and local/state campaigns.”

    That goes to the bargain the Tea Party struck with the Republicans. The GOP has the election apparatus, which the Tea Party used. The Tea Party needs to focus on spreading as a competitive populist movement rather than campaigning.

    Winning as a growing populist movement will contribute to campaign success and fulfill its side of the bargain with the GOP.

  26. neo-neocon Says:

    Daniel: the battle “had to come”? It came about fifty years ago. It’s old, not young. Whether it be between the Tea Party and the establishment, or the true conservatives and the Rockefeller Republicans, it’s the same old same old, and it’s destructive.

  27. Don Carlos Says:

    What you need to read today:

  28. holmes Says:

    Eric- agreed.

  29. Geoffrey Britain Says:

    To win political elections, you need a majority of votes and massive amounts of money.

    The democrats are financially backed by ‘true believers’ such as Soros, Hollywood celebrities, unions, and corporate titans like G.E.’s Immelt and wall street ‘finaglers’, etc., unlike the left, the right does not have an ideological Soros or numerous wealthy “true believers in small government”.

    Republican party voters consist of small government and/or social issue conservatives on one side and on the other side, the Republican establishment that purports to represent them with the business oriented community that supports the Republican establishment.

    The Republican establishment does NOT support small government and/or social issues. They support the financial status quo and a more favorable business climate.

    That is why, on social issues and small government issues like entitlements, out of control spending, etc. they cave when push comes to shove.

    What small government conservatives, who are ideologically oriented, fail to fully appreciate is the pragmatic necessity for truly massive amounts of money in a modern campaign and, who it is that is supplying that money on the right.

    Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign received 66% of its donations from large contributors and, they support business concerns.

    Thus when it is reported that, “The biggest donors in the Republican Party are financing a new group to recruit seasoned candidates and protect Senate incumbents from challenges by far-right conservatives and Tea Party enthusiasts who Republican leaders worry could complicate the party’s efforts to win control of the Senate.” it presents no surprise to those who have analyzed why we keep getting shafted by the Republican establishment.

    The Republican establishment needs our votes but do not share small government values, so they do the minimum necessary to be reelected, recognizing that if they sacrifice business concerns for small government/social ideological issues, the big donors will pull their donations.

    Rove is right… when the sole consideration is immediate, short term concerns. What Rove and the big donors fail to appreciate is that they are now living on borrowed time. That Rove fails to appreciate the deeper lessons of the 2012 election is an indication that his focus is too narrow and that he’s too close to the problem. He (and they) literally can’t see the forest for the trees.

    And so they fail to appreciate their own long term self-interest.

    The left will not settle for running out of other people’s money, restricted to income. They will go after ALL the assets but will do so incrementally. The death tax will be raised and the eligibility lowered. Entire industries will be nationalized. The left does not believe in private property and will never be satisfied with the collapse of their theories, they will impose real tyranny because they believe that if they can only control things enough, they can perfect mankind and create utopia on earth. Having abandoned faith in an afterlife, they have no other recourse.

    Just as liberals are the left’s “useful idiots”, those on the left are Satan’s* “useful idiots”…for they would justify forcing people to do the ‘right thing’ (as they see it) for the people’s own good. Which as CS Lewis pointed out is the most oppressive tyranny of all.

    Fanaticism always justifies its evil as regrettably necessary.

    * the “dark side of the force”, call it what you will. Evil exists.

  30. T Says:

    “The Republican establishment does NOT support small government and/or social issues. They support the financial status quo and a more favorable business climate.”

    Geoffrey Britain, I think that is precisely correct. Dems support big govt and large social programs, establishment Repubs support Big govt and large corporations.

  31. Eric Says:

    Don Carlos,

    The Horowtiz piece is a must-read with much useful guidance. Thanks.

    Geoffrey Britain: “To win political elections, you need a majority of votes and massive amounts of money.”

    They’re not equal needs, though. The ultimate end is the majority of votes. Greater campaign finances are a means to that end. In return for the GOP’s organizational assets, the Tea Party offered the GOP more voters and a stronger popular base via a growing grassroots populist movement, but the Tea Party failed to deliver on their promise to the GOP when the voters and base were needed the most.

    Bottom-line: If the Tea Party had delivered enough voters and base to the GOP, their influence would have grown in the GOP and the Fed. However, the Tea Party neglected to grow its movement after it won a few elections.

    As Horowitz points out, this can be done. I’ve cited before the microcosmic example of the recent victorious student-led campaign to restore ROTC in the Ivy League. The Ivy ROTC movement started small, fringe, and dismissed, as you can imagine. The advocates first used a smart grassroots campaign to engage the campus in discourse and debate. They vigorously countered the campus anti-military activists who were defending the Vietnam-era status quo. The ROTC advocates succeeded and failed, and adapted and adjusted along the way. Eventually, they normalized the notion of an active civil-military component on campus. Then, on that grassroots foundation they convinced University leaders to follow suit.

    The Tea Party tried to take a short cut to political power, and as often happens with short cuts, it worked out okay in the short term, but lacked sufficient foundation for long term success. The Tea Party needs to take a step back, restore its activism, and do the foundational work like the Ivy ROTC advocates did.

  32. artfldgr Says:

    70% of students are in the new core curriculum and are designing new socialist communist flags and the best idea above is to get the republicans to court Asians…

  33. Eric Says:


    The two areas aren’t mutually exclusive. Asian Americans are educated alongside everyone else. Indeed, higher mean academic achievement by Asians implies they may be more reflective of ‘Cathedral’ education indoctrination.

    The education indoctrination explanation may account for why, despite recent GOP preference by Asian voters and socio-economic indicators that point to continued GOP support, Asian votes have mysteriously swung to the Democrats.

    Like I said, winning back the Asian vote should generate models to reach out to other groups. As they tend to be well-educated, solving the GOP’s Asian American voter conundrum may go hand in hand with developing solutions for the education indoctrination conundrum.

  34. Geoffrey Britain Says:


    I agree as to the Horowitz piece, its very impressive.

    Yes, the goal is getting enough votes and yes, the Tea Party failed to deliver. But I’m not sure that it was primarily due to a failure upon their part.

    Instead it may be a case of having reached their natural limit in growth. It’s arguable that the 30+% of Americans that view the Tea Party favorably is also the percentage of Americans that believe in small government values.

    Given the Gramscian march through our educational institutions and the incessant indoctrination of the American public by the MSM over the past 50+ years its not surprising that socialism is approved of by more Americans than independent self-reliance, which is the core value of small government advocates.

    If that in fact is the case, then nothing we can do will avoid the train wreck we are headed toward.

    There is however much we can do, as a movement to prepare for the aftermath of the train wreck, when the left will attempt to seize, once again, upon the ‘opportunity’ that crisis provides.

    If we can’t offer a credible alternative and in a compelling manner, the American public will follow the left even deeper into the morass to which they are leading us.

  35. southpaw Says:

    neo if you’re still reading -those are not bad suggestions. And my only point is the establishment Republicans can do a lot to end the feud by acting like the adults they claim to be when negotiating with Democrats.
    They COULD spend some time in productive collaboration instead of shoving them off to a corner. The establishment Republicans created the Tea Party because there is a large block of voters who simply got tired of waiting for the next election for the Republicans to take a stand on the things they claim to stand for — limited goverment, fiscal restraint and liberty. The fact they have promised these things and have failed to deliver, even when they have all the power, is THEIR fault. They can either deal with it by addressing those issues, or continue to ignore them and pretend the real problem isn’t with their ineptitude, but with people who aren’t willing to trust them again. I know exactly what you are saying about this being a destructive attitude, and I am not saying I would stay home myself, but you are not acknowleging that Karl and his kind are their own worst enemy, and neither is he. He’s in denial.
    And for the record, I think you underestimate his capacity for pettiness and revenge. The Dewhurst campaign he was backing was one of the most reprehensible and nasty smear campaigns I’ve ever seen. There was not a single ounce of substance from the Dewhurst side, it was nothing but one outrageously negative thing after another. If Ted Cruz ends up a republican candidate, and Karl Rove has another guy in mind, Rove is the kind of dunce who would feed the democrats made up dirt to submarine him. This is the problem I have with the Established bunch – the mode of operation is to destroy their opponents in the primary, go nasty and dirty, then run to the middle and try to appeal to a big independent group, expecting that all the people who they just trashed and their supporters will rally around their handpicked guy. Besides the presidential races, Rove blew most all of the senate races.
    Yeah the Tea Party isn’t exactly the most orgainized bunch, but they’re a product of the ineptitude you are expecting people to support. The republicans made the mess, they need to fix it.

  36. neo-neocon Says:

    southpaw: where do you see me defending the “establishment Republicans”? I hold no brief for them, or Rove.

    Actually, they are politicians, which says a lot. There are very few politicians I admire or think are not deeply flawed, but then again, most people do not want to become politicians. It’s a dirty business; I wouldn’t want to enter it.

    No, both sides are very very deeply flawed, IMHO. But this civil war business is making things worse, not better. It is exactly what the left wants.

    I just don’t think Rove is out to annihilate the Tea Party. He’s trying to win elections, too. It’s the Democrats who are trying to annihilate the Tea Party and the Republican Party. So don’t do their work for them.

    The two wings of the right disagree about the best candidates for winning (actually, they don’t disagree about all of them, just some). Big deal. They should learn to live with it; it’s politics.

    I understand your frustration. As I think I’ve said before, I share it.

  37. Eric Says:

    Geoffrey Britain: “Instead it may be a case of having reached their natural limit in growth.”

    Maybe. We don’t know because the Tea Party didn’t push the envelope with a sustained, dedicated effort to proselytize beyond their in-group.

  38. fiona Says:

    Let’s get a couple of things straight, Neo. Akin WAS NOT the TP candidate – he won a three way race against two others supported by the Tea Party, in part thanks to about $5 million donated to his campaign by supporters of Claire McCaskill.

    Karl Rove has been an inept Schmuck since at least 2004, when I participated in the presidential campaign for George Bush, which we carried only by ignoring all the instructions from party HQ formulated by him. He made out well from the Romney campaign by advising Mitt to advertise in expensive media markets, from which Mr. Rove derived a significant percentage fee.

    As a former Republican, I can tell you that the whole, Republicans signed an agreement with the Democrats not to expose fraud is a less than honest framing of the issue. It applies to the National Party only – the state and county parties could still pursue these issues, but are encouraged not to. Still working on the Tea Party, but from my experience, I have concluded that the Tea Party people who think they can take over the Republican party are deluded. It may take a while and perhaps a crash, but a new party, built up from local and state levels will be required.
    Meanwhile, when charities call, I tell them I gave at the IRS>

  39. Daniel Says:

    This may be a continuing struggle, and electability continues to be the main theme, but the underlying issues from decades ago are vastly different. Hence, the ‘neo’ in neo-con.

    These struggles do take place and are inevitable and will continue to take place. They happen on the left as well as on the right, and our two party system is symbolic of the many, many fracture lines in society through which we disagree with one another. The struggles are healthy for a democratic society just as they are healthy for each party. The party that resolves their differences and unites long enough to win an election will erupt into the struggle for primacy and relevance as soon as that election is over. It’s the way we work.

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About Me

Previously a lifelong Democrat, born in New York and living in New England, surrounded by liberals on all sides, I've found myself slowly but surely leaving the fold and becoming that dread thing: a neocon.

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