Answered prayers
On the thread about the video where the woman found her dog after the tornado, commenter “Randy” wrote:
there is a lot of religious blindness on this thread. we celebrate God for answering this woman’s prayer about her dog, but ignore the fact that he did not answer the prayers of the parents of the 6 elementary school children who suffocated to death. I could care less about this woman’s dog.
I was waiting for someone to write something like that. It’s a very common reaction; I’ve seen a number of similar comments on other discussions about the dog video.
The person voicing such a sentiment seems to think that prayer is a zero-sum game—that if a person believes that this woman’s prayers were answered (or, more importantly, if she believes it, and if the person respects that belief), it has to be at the expense of the children who died. An either/or proposition, where we either care about people or care about little fluffy dogs.
It does seem that some people do have a sort of Santa Claus concept of the deity; they ask for stuff or for favors. It is pretty much a part of human nature to do this—especially about one’s very survival (or the survival of loved ones). This is the source of the expression “there are no atheists in the foxholes.”
But a deeper understanding of religion is that although most people, in a terrible crisis, will naturally and understandably pray for God’s help through it, and pray to God to sustain them and their loved ones, and thank God for helping them and their loved ones (yes, including dogs) when they do survive, most people also have some sort of understanding that it’s hardly that simple, and that God, providence, Fate, work in mysterious ways.
It is a conundrum that has never been solved, although it’s been wrestled with since the dawn of religion, and probably the dawn of mankind. The Bible’s Book of Job deals with questioning the “why” of the misfortune that sometimes befalls people who have led upright lives. So do books such as Kushner’s When Bad Things Happen to Good People, a popular religious, philosophical, and psychological treatment of the same conundrum.
In the video in question, the woman is above all thankful. That is one of the major functions of prayer; to express thanks. Her prayers were answered, as far as she’s concerned. I am virtually certain that she fervently wishes the children had lived, as well. But one thing is unrelated to the other, and she has every right to thank God for her own survival and that of her beloved dog.
God does answer prayers – it’s just that sometimes the answer is ‘no.’ It is one of the things that devout people struggle with. One can only accept that His wisdom is infinite, and that one might never be able to know why the answer is sometimes ‘no’, simply trust that He indeed had a reason.
Oh, and Randy is a jerk. I accept as a matter of faith that God had a reason for creating him that way.
If prayers are unanswered, it be Bush’s fault.
This is going to sound hokey, but I think one of the best depictions of answered prayers is the “Touched by an Angel” show. I stumbled across the show in reruns (after avoiding it for years) and was pleasantly surprised at the message: God doesn’t provide an easy fix, he provides comfort and support when you’re dealing with tough stuff.
It is informative – the insistence that if God were were God He’d have had the foresight to make Himself in our image. Wasn’t that Lucifer’s downfall?
Is asking for good things to happen to you in prayers selfish?
G. J. – as it was explained to me in catechism class, yea these many decades ago, it was proper to humbly ask Him for those things or blessings which in His opinion, would be good for you to have. If He didn’t give you a Maserati, or a winning lottery ticket, then obviously Maseratis or lottery winnings were not good things for you to have.
“I heard upon his dry dung heap,
That man cry out, who cannot sleep:
‘If God is God, He is not good,
If God is good, He is not God;
Take the even, take the odd,
I would not sleep here if I could
Except for the little green leaves in the wood
And the wind on the water.'”
— J.B., Archibald MacLeish
G-d eschews adult children, that is, pawning, puking, fawning, and grasping hands upwards. He creates stewards, managers, disciplined thinkers who will be partners in bringing forth a universe of diversity and love.
In the act of love demonstrated by the video, the old woman commands the camera crew, “help me.” That she even had to say so means the camera crew lacked in the essential development which G-d intends. Love is giving and that giving is aided both by our rational and emotional selves, but above all, giving is key.
To be thankful for a gift is one of the first steps to becoming human, which is the process involving hard work and sacrifice, of incorporating spiritual reality into corporeal reality.
Great post. A lot of people who are anti-religion seem to operate with the ‘Santa Claus’ mindset. If they were more sophisticated they’d realize that their understanding of God does not have to match their projection about other peoples’ understanding.
I realize this isn’t the IRS, but I’ll say this about the content of my prayers: I never pray for good things for myself. The most I ever ask is for God to share His wisdom with me, so I might understand why something is the way it is, and so I can make wise choices. I don’t feel comfortable asking for more than that. I do sometimes pray for good things for others.
Neo: “The person voicing such a sentiment seems to think that prayer is a zero-sum game–that if a person believes that this woman’s prayers were answered (or, more importantly, if she believes it, and if the person respects that belief), it has to be at the expense of the children who died.”
No, I suspect thats not it. As an atheist sympathetic to Randy’s point of view, Im betting his opinion is that people are often too willing to grasp weak narratives than to examine the real world. Its a great point. Many were killed, a dog survived. Thats how the dice rolled and to attribute a dog’s surviving as some how gods great plan is as delusional as holding on to the idea that Obama would have stopped the recent abuses of power if he had only known.
–Harry (1:32)
And the main point of the Book of Job is that one doesn’t love God because of the good he does for you, but rather for the fat that he created you. Love him, and all that comes from him, good as well as bad.
Certainly not an easy proposition, and one that was theologically surprising. The OT Jews believed that if you were good, God would be good to you. A downfall such as Job’s was seen as punishment by society. The book’s approach was quite a new perspective.
G. Joubert – my prayer intentions are all petitions for others. I am content with what God sends me, and usually pray for strength.
Sgt Mom has it right. The longer I live, the more thankful I am that some prayers were never answered.
As far as praying for oneself, the model Jesus gave is “give us this day our daily bread…” and “lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.” I can give many examples of where scripture encourages us to ask, including for ourselves. Being satisfied with “no” and accepting that life this side of heaven can only be viewed through a glass dimly is just part of faith. But Neo is right, it is not a zero-sum game. Every moment of every day things take place on this earth that if we were to allow that crisis, tragedy, evil or unhappiness to determine whether or not we should rejoice–well I think you can understand that using that framework, rejoicing would never be admissable.
As an agnostic myself, I don’t understand how many non-religious people are so intolerant of people who are religious. Religion is a non-rational thought process (NOT irrational, as my old philosophy prof would prove over and over again). As such, let people have their beliefs without belittling every time.
When approaching God in a prayer of pleading, a believer acknowledges first that whatever the outcome she will have the faith to accept it. That you have these desires, but your desire to be with God someday is greater and you will continue in faith either way.
Non believers consider prayer to be silly because they do not realize that you can feel answers to prayer, and they have never felt it. You can feel God telling you that he answered your prayer in this way for a purpose. You can even feel other people’s prayers. Once when younger and coming safely out of a very dangerous situation I had the distinct feeling “your dad is praying for you.” There is power there.
Well Im sure that lady in the video felt the answer od her prayers..but there were plenty of others who have prayed for their children. maybe they will feel the dog-ladies prayers were answered and be rejoiced…Perhaps not though.
Yes, prayer is silly.
Neo, very well said, particularly
For those who have no faith, prayer might well seem silly. Then again, just about every aspect of human behavior might be considered “silly” depending upon one’s perspective.
This quote by author Madeleine L’Engle sums this matter up best:
“If it can be verified, we don’t need faith…Faith is for that which lies on the other side of reason. Faith is what makes life bearable, with all its tragedies, and ambiguities and sudden, startling joys.”