June 21st, 2013

More on the immigration bill

It strikes me more and more every day that the country’s so-called leaders have no intention of dealing with illegal immigration except to give illegals citizenship and to encourage (or at least not discourage) more such immigration. The liberal/left/Democratic forces pushing this are strong and determined and disciplined, and very few Republicans seem to have the will or even the inclination to resist. Whether this is because these Republicans stupidly think support of the bill will gain them votes (my perception is that if a voter is faced with a choice between a real Democrat and a fake one, he/she will go for the real one every time—I forget who first said that, but it wasn’t me), or whether these Republicans actually believe in the principal behind the bill, or whether they’ve been paid off in some way, at this point I neither know or care. I feel a steamroller effect, and would be very surprised if some bill involving a path to citizenship and weak lip service to border security isn’t passed.

I see this as an economic disaster for the country, and a societal one as well. The latter is not because of some innate flaw in Hispanics (which I don’t think exists), it’s because of our own lack of insistence on cultural assimilation, a decision we seem to have made at some point in my own lifetime decades ago although I can’t date it exactly. That decision has done neither the country nor the Hispanics who have come here (legally or illegally) any good, although some may perceive it that way.

But when I try to think what would be the solution to the issue of what to do with the many many illegal immigrants and their children who already live here, it’s a problem so knotty that I’ve not heard a good suggestion that seems doable. We clearly don’t had the will or intent to deport every last one of them and build some sort of fence so high that no one could scale it and so deep that no one could tunnel under it. It just seems like the horse left the barn on these issues so long ago that there’s no recovering it. So at least part of the impetus for the bills that have been under consideration lately is widespread despair at the prospect of solving a problem that got out of hand ages ago.

[Hat tip: Legal Insurrection.]

39 Responses to “More on the immigration bill”

  1. artfldgr Says:

    the rubes always wake up too late

    they waste too much time being reasonable to the unreasonable, then they assume good intents when there are none, and despite andlessly being screwed and lied to their faces in front of them, they finally wake up.

    only took germans till 1945…
    russians till 1995

    americans? not yet…

  2. vanderleun Says:

    “some innate flaw in Hispanics (which I don’t think exists)”

    Of course not. After all, look at their gigantic contribution to culture in the United States: the low-riding, bouncing automobile. And then there’s their incredible contribution to political dialogue, La Raza, not to mention their culinary triumph of tomorrow’s excrement today, the burrito. Fabulous folks, aren’t they?

  3. artfldgr Says:

    at this point I neither know or care. I feel a steamroller effect…

    no.. your being “bulldozed” as i said you would be and gave you the history of the builldozers..

    lots know as evidence of terms they put in as clues to the knowing

    The Bulldozer and the Big Tent: Blind Republicans, Lame Democrats, and the Recovery of American Ideals

    its called “Democratic Bulldozing”
    its hard to find things as those things would link to their 1800s discovery of race games leading to power…

    they dont want you to know
    do a search on bulldozer political party
    you dont get democrats of alabama and south
    you get

    Rachel Corrie
    Marvin Heemeyer
    Lee Myung-bak
    Colour revolution
    Jacques Chirac
    Battle of Jenin
    Richard M. Daley

    The ‘Bulldozer Revolution’ in 2000, which led to the overthrow of Slobodan Milošević. These demonstrations are usually considered to be the first example of the peaceful revolutions which followed. However, the Serbians adopted an approach that had already been used in parliamentary elections in Bulgaria (1997), Slovakia (1998) and Croatia (2000), characterised by civic mobilisation through get-out-the-vote campaigns and unification of the political opposition.

    see this and note what kinds of things went on in the past.. today pales in many ways


    It speaks to the practice of “bull-dozing” in the South. Bulldozing was the name given to the sometimes violent, always coercive methods that were used to suppress the southern black vote in the mid to late 1870s.

    your being bull dozed…

    To ensure a solid South, they looked to the lessons of the Mississippi Plan. In 1876 a new word came into use to describe Democartic intimidation techniques: “bulldozing.” To bulldoze voters meant to trample them down or keep them away from the polls. In South Carolina and Louisiana, the Red Shirts and the White League mobilized for an all-out bulldozing effort.

    we are intimidated to vote against what they are doing… no?

    their game caused the removal of the troops, and the locking down of the vote to democrats.

    what do you think they are doing now? the same thing… with the twists of other times added in.

    the thing is that you don know the lingo, so you dont see them talking in a steganographic way..

    The White House has already bulldozed a traffic-jammed superhighway for immigration law-breakers by executive fiat.

    here TIME comments:
    McCain and Palin tried to build fences, looking for safe ground; Obama bulldozed them in search of common ground.

    if you know words, they sprinkle them about their writings…

    in his effort to bulldoze opposition to a new assault weapons ban

    want to guess what code is bad?
    tea party

    ie. the codes that they used to identify who the irs should go after… what about the codes that tell them who they should give money to, and so on?

    how about IBD calling them out on the whole health care thing being a scam to create a democratic majority too?

    if they did this to organizations, what will they do to people? vote republican and they do what to your healthcare? eliza found out what kind of healthcare you get, no?

    Using ObamaCare To Create A Permanent Democratic Majority

    The Obama administration granted a whopping $910 million to California to set up its insurance exchange. That money is not for bandages, surgery, nurses and doctors to care for the sick.

    Amazingly, California legislators passed a law that the exchange could keep secret for a year who received the contracts and indefinitely how much they were paid. California’s open-records laws would otherwise prohibit such secrecy.

    What is known so far suggests that California politicians are exploiting health reform to enroll millions of the uninsured in the Democratic Party and fill the coffers of left-wing interest groups with taxpayer money.

    Here are the facts to back up that cynical picture:

    with one group not able to vote their own survival soon, you can tell that someone is cranking up the ovens again…

    Of the 48 organizations that got grants, only a handful are health-care related. The California NAACP received $600,000 to do door-to-door canvassing and presentations at community organizations.

    These organizations, closely allied with the Democratic Party, are being funded by your tax dollars to conduct “outreach,” meaning the kind of phone banking and door-to-door canvassing that activists do to turn out the vote. They will turn out the uninsured to enroll on the exchanges and in the Democratic Party.

    The $37 million awarded last month is only the first installment of California’s $190.4 million to be spent on contracts for “outreach” through December 2014.

    they are rolling over people..
    but hey, not much you cna do NOW

    its like trying to stop a asteroid

    you can nudge it and in 10 years be saved

    or you can wait two terms, be sure, and not be able to do a thing!!!

    yeah, the world was saved from hitler and stalin, but at what expense, and could they have lost?

    with russia hardening their equipment for 10 years
    and obama abandoning all our military stuff in afghanistan, we are not going to have what we need..

    i wonder what depleted uranium goes for on the market now…

  4. neo-neocon Says:


    I was unaware that there was a low-riding automobile gene.

  5. artfldgr Says:


    you forgot open heart sacrifice
    the Spanish inquisition
    Peronism (Which MS corrects to peperoni)
    Chavez and the Bolivar revolution…

    but wait.

    what about isabella and columbus?
    what about zazu pits?
    carmen miranda?

    you can leave out grizelda blanco…

    but dont blame it on the bosanova, blame it on Juana of Castile… :)

    which way do you fall on don quixote? heh
    George Santayana? ya got a like him, no?

    where would we be without the Avogadro constant?
    defined as the number of constituent particles (usually atoms or molecules) in one mole of a given substance.

    por poor Amedeo…


  6. holmes Says:

    “Steamroller effect.” Why does that only happen with Democratic legislation? This is such a trumped up non issue at the moment. Yet right precisely at the time where unemployment amongst the lower classes is highest…we’re going to introduce a lot more competition for those diminishing jobs. Almost like the goal is just to have a welfare dependency voting bloc.

    As far as what to do, there may be nothing at the moment, which is why conservatives are insisting that we at least start shutting down the border as well as, and this has been less emphasized, the freebie visa ride that has been an ongoing security trainwreck. Why students from Yemen can’t study online or, really, anywhere besides here, is beyond me.

  7. Eric Says:

    The Right ought to aggressively court Asian Americans and tout them their ‘model minority’ as the standard for all immigrants.

    In general, the Right ought to court all hard-working legal immigrants from everywhere, not just Asians, who are dotting all their i’s and crossing all their t’s in order to push back against the normalization of illegal immigrants.

  8. vanderleun Says:

    “I was unaware that there was a low-riding automobile gene.”

    There is an studies show it is only found in Mexicans of the not gay persuasion.

  9. vanderleun Says:

    What has San Diego contributed to American culture?


    A lowrider is a car originated by Mexican-Americans in California. It was a part of the zoot-suit fashion that bloomed heavily through Los Angeles during the 1930s. Many lowriders have hydraulic suspension systems (modified suspension) so that their ride can change height at the flip of a switch. Lowriders are commonly classic cars from the 1950s (when lowriding began). However, large numbers of 1940s to 2000s model cars are also modified; to an uncommon degree newer vehicles are also modified.



  10. vanderleun Says:

    Actually, if bouncing cars went as far into New England as they should, you’d probably love riding in one!

  11. sharpie Says:

    The many many illegal immigrants and their children are not our problem. They live and prosper here better than in Mexico. So it’s not a problem for them. It’s a better alternative. Why is a change needed? That’s the first assertion of Rubio and now O’Reilly: It’s broken and we must fix it. Okay, agreed. Let’s enforce the border. Problem solved. Don’t worry about the present illegals. They’ll either live here or leave and we don’t have to do anything. They’ll take care of themselves.

    The real problem is the idea that we must ensure their welfare. The next problem is that we must ensure the welfare of everyone everywhere. This ridiculous idea/pathology will disappear as soon as our country reaches the same level of corruption and poverty as Mexico.

  12. Mr. Frank Says:

    One of the reasons soccer never caught on in America was the existence of the uniquely American sport of baseball. Immigrants were expected to support baseball as part of their assimilation. They still could cheer for their ethnic stars like Joe Dimaggio and Yogi Berra. Current day Mexican immigrants stay with soccer and root for their home country. The U.S. men’s soccer team has to pick venues with small Hispanic populations when playing Mexico or Central American teams in the U.S. to avoid being the “away” team.

  13. expat Says:


    I agree that it is doing away with the expectation of cultural assimilation that is the problem. Why do I have to press 1 for English; why are schools teaching only about the sins of America? I’ve known quite a few first, second, and third generation immigrants from different parts of the world and I never experienced the entitlement expectations that I now hear about. I have no problem with a particular group running lots of nail salons or 7/11s because I know from personal experience that when you move to a different country you need someone to show you the ropes. But if you have kids, you have to give them the freedom to become a part of the country they grow up in.

    Our lefties told the Mexicans that they were betraying their heritage if they did that. And, of course, the fact that they did come here illegally is important. The illegals owe us some sort of contrition for breaking our laws and a sign that they truly appreciate what they have found here. They need to show us that they won’t encourage others to follow their path of illegality. They need to show some familiarity with the stories of other immigrant groups so that they don’t see themselves as particularly aggrieved.

    We shouldn’t pretend that we only fear losing future voters. We fear losing our own heritage.

  14. Ann Says:

    Seems to me it’s just vanderleun’s sort of ridicule that Mexican-Americans believe lives in the heart of every Republican. So of course they’ll vote for Democrats instead on that basis alone.

    Gov. Susana Martinez has been saying for some time that the GOP has got to start making personal contact with Hispanics, something they’ve let Democrats dominate. And she knows the importance of the dignity thing; for example, she recently said she was happy that Whole Foods was reviewing its language policy with regard to Spanish-speaking workers:

    Whole Foods Market is reviewing its employee language policy after two of its Spanish-speaking workers in New Mexico said they were suspended after complaining about it, a company spokeswoman said Friday.

    The Austin, Texas-based organic grocery chain is re-examining the policy “as we speak, and it will be the topic of ongoing conversations at an all-leadership conference next week,” spokeswoman Libba Letton said in a statement.

    Gov. Susana Martinez told The Associated Press she was happy the company is revisiting the policy because New Mexico has a history with Spanish and American Indian languages.

    “I’m glad they are willing to re-evaluate that policy because I think every state is different,” Martinez, a Republican and the nation’s only Latina governor, said Friday after speaking to a constituent in Spanish.

    The Spanish language “is part of the fabric of what makes New Mexico great,” she said.

  15. expat Says:


    I wonder what would happen if the Ivies required that all faculty must be bilingual in order to accomodate Spanish-speaking minorities. I bet all the Asian and European STEM profs and students would be delighted.

  16. neo-neocon Says:

    Mr. Frank:

    And yet if I recall correctly, Cubans (at least in the past) used to love baseball, and Dominicans are still very active in it.

    Wasn’t Castro an excellent amateur player who wanted to go pro for a while?

  17. parker Says:

    ‘Illegal immigrants’ are not immigrants. Those who evade our immigration laws and burrow into our society are criminals. I am not aware of any other country that allows its immigration laws to be flouted so blatantly. This amnesty travesty will lower wages, swell the welfare rolls, balloon medical costs, and wreck more havoc on the educational and criminal justice systems.

    RIP GOP if this madness is not stymied in the House and allowed to go unchecked.

  18. kj Says:

    There’s a simple solution. Rip out the welfare state root and branch. The lay-abouts get to work or die and compete with illegals who just might be id’d and sent home or even self-deport. By the way, no other solution will work. You see, if you pay people not to work, they won’t work and others who will work (illegals) will take their place.

    At least the illegals do provide a benefit to the nation in the form of their labor. Welfare lay-abouts provide nada.

    Another benefit, people who work don’t vote for communists.

  19. parker Says:


    Fidel was a talented pitcher if I recall correctly. Apparently becoming a brutal dictator held more allure than a possible career in baseball.

  20. physicsguy Says:

    Mr Frank said
    “One of the reasons soccer never caught on in America was the existence of the uniquely American sport of baseball. Immigrants were expected to support baseball as part of their assimilation. They still could cheer for their ethnic stars like Joe Dimaggio and Yogi Berra. Current day Mexican immigrants stay with soccer and root for their home country. The U.S. men’s soccer team has to pick venues with small Hispanic populations when playing Mexico or Central American teams in the U.S. to avoid being the “away” team.”

    My avocation is being soccer ref. I can tell you in no uncertain terms, many refs hate to ref a game involving a Hispanic team. The games are out of control, and sometimes end with the police being called. Yes, they are passionate about their soccer… to a point of being extreme.

    Though to be fair, if I hear an English accent from a coach on the sideline, I know I am going to have a miserable game. :-)

  21. sharpie Says:

    Promising and pandering. If you’ll take that or endorse that from your government, you are a perverted people.

    Mexicans prefer our country because our laws provide protection, security and opportunity. They understood America’s superiority until the advent of multiculturalism. Now they presume to dictate terms of their illegal citizenship and we’re supposed to ease their incorporation by appealing to their feelings? Are a bunch of goofy hippie chicks running this country?

  22. vanderleun Says:

    Ann, you are so good at stick in the thumb and pull out a plum politics we’ll let you do the outreach at La Raza headquarters. They’ll love to hear of your sincere feelings.

  23. Oldflyer Says:

    I laughed at Vanderleun’s assessment of Hispanic cultural contributions.

    As a fairly recent emigre to Southern California I find them a very mixed blessing. There is the Old Mexican culture which can be charming. I saw it in Mexico when I worked there, and I see glimpses of it here. My very favorite restaurant is “authentic” Mexican, and it is my favorite because of the civility and charm of the staff.

    On the other hand there is the dark side. I cannot explain the difference, but it is apparent. It is characterized by the “gang culture”, but goes beyond and spills over into every day life. There is a large element that simply has no respect for anything or anyone. I have to assume that through neglect of our border and lack of commitment to our historic immigration norms, we simply imported the dregs of a society, and they have beget additional generations with the same lack of values. Now, they are ours. Our problem.

    I belong to the LA Fitness gyms. In the branch that I use, there is a huge Hispanic population, and Spanish is the prevailing language. (In your face gringo) The facilities are nice, and a palatable effort is made to keep them so. It is a hopeless effort, because there are constant acts, either deliberate or unconscious, that defile the premises. A few days ago I actually saw a pile of human feces left in a shower stall. That had to be a deliberate statement of something.

    We are on a downward trajectory. Our politicians seem hell bent on hurtling down the path. The bulk of the citizens are numb–as usual. Oh, I wrote to my two Senators today; that is Feinstein and Boxer. I am sure that will help.

  24. Mr. Frank Says:


    I was thinking of European immigrants who were expected to assimilate and baseball was part of that process.

  25. rickl Says:

    I cannot interpret this in any other way than the deliberate, planned obliteration of America to make way for World Government.

    For decades, people who said things like that were regarded as tinfoil hat nutters. Now it must be considered the Occam’s Razor explanation.

    Our educational system focuses exclusively on America’s sins, both real and imagined. Blacks are taught nothing about American history except slavery and oppression. Mexican immigrants are not expected to learn English; we’re supposed to accommodate them speaking Spanish. In popular culture (TV shows and commercials), white men are consistently depicted as ignorant, oafish creatures; while wisdom and reason reside among women and minorities.

    We are constantly being told that the white race will no longer be the majority in America after the mid-21st century, as if that were inevitable. It is not inevitable; it is deliberately being engineered. The brown and black races are systematically being taught to hate us. Once we are in the minority, will we be the beneficiaries of special protection or racial quotas? Not bloody likely. It will be open season on us.

    It is getting to the point where we need a White Party that explicitly looks after the interests of the white race. Why not? Every other race votes along racial lines. If 95% of whites had voted for McCain or Romney, they would have won by landslides and we would be demonized as racists. But 95% of blacks voted for Obama both times, and that’s no big deal. For some reason, nobody calls them racist. Hispanics also vote heavily for Hispanic candidates when available. Why isn’t there a Congressional White Caucus?

    If whites don’t band together in racial solidarity, our skeletons will be picked clean by the vultures of other races. As long as everyone else is playing that game, we either have to join in or suffer the consequences.

  26. Oldflyer Says:

    ricki, I do agree with you. Nothing makes me grind my teeth quicker than reference to the Black Congressional Caucus, or other such sanctioned organizations that exist solely to promote a particular race. Then we are bombarded with scare stories about white supremacists–defined very loosely, I might add.

    Although I agree with you, I am going to keep my distance. Have you looked up to see if there are drones hovering in your vicinity?

    Kidding. But, the problem with banding together is obvious. If we gathered two or more and espoused your program, we would be visited forthwith. I am sure there are laws on the books, or that can be manufactured.

    The basic problem is the same one that got Obama elected. Too many whites believe that it is virtuous to deny–everything related to their race. They would turn on you in a heart beat and tear you to pieces in the interest of fairness and diversity.

  27. Eric Says:

    Illegal immigration eats away most at the lower/middle middle class because the lower/middle middle class straddles the jobs that illegal immigrants take and depress the wages by skewing the labor supply. And of course that eats up the ladder to the middle/upper middle class.

    If we want to talk in terms of the theoretical Marxist revolution, the Middle Class preserves the status quo and actually stands in the way of the Marxist goal of a proletariat vs capitalist winner-take-all contest.

    Destroy the Middle Class and Marxist revolution is back on.

  28. sharpie Says:

    Well you pussies, either start weeping or fighting. You need a good enemy to stay strong. Who wants to live in pleasure and antipathy?

  29. sharpie Says:

    Ooops, I blogged without thinking again. I apologize to the good people I called pussies. That was an off the cuff remark and meant totally towards the white progressives who have the money and leisure to pander. It’s them I hate.

    Sorry about that. I don’t quite agree with “race” as the ultimate cause but I do agree it is the strategy of the one-worlders. Who do you fight if not the ones who have the property and power.

    But it’s not ultimately about race. Never has been.

    Still, please forgive me for letting an initial emotional response control my thinking.

    (I can’t use the word liberal in that I consider myself a liberal. Conservatives are liberal. It’s “liberals” who aren’t liberal.)

    Are you ready to die for what you believe?

  30. parker Says:

    “But it’s not ultimately about race. Never has been.”

    There is a great divide that does not recognize race or religion. On one side there are those who see themselves as individuals connected to other individuals by blood and friendship and community; people who want the freedom to go their own way, make their own decisions, and succeed or fail based upon their abilities and initiative. On the other side are the ones who long for the utopian collective where all is free and all are equal; except for the aristocrats who are destined to rule by virtue of their superior intellect and ivy league knowledge.

  31. parker Says:

    “Are you ready to die for what you believe?”

    The ideal outcome is they die for what they believe in. But, yes I am for my children and grandchildren. Grandchildren hold a special place in our (wife & me) lives. We want them to inherent a sane society that is ruled by law (Constitution), not the vicious whims of politicians.

  32. sharpie Says:

    As the tyranny increases the poverty increases. It’s a race and Brazil and Europe show the limits of gov’t led economics. They cannot compete and that is why the US

  33. sharpie Says:

    you finish the sentence.

  34. Oldflyer Says:

    is despised.

    But, not for long. Obama will make us loved. Oh wait, that didn’t work. Now we are despised and ridiculed.

  35. Ymarsakar Says:

    The world respects American justice, even if it isn’t theirs and they get no vote or say in it, or fears our economic and military might.

    When it comes to Obama, they can neither respect such hypocritical totalitarian beliefs nor can they fear such ridiculous incompetent totalitarian wannabes. They know how the gulags and purges are really done, they don’t need an Obama lecture to teach them it.

  36. Ymarsakar Says:

    There’s about two general strategic forks concerning US long term.

    1. Defeat the Left with COIN.

    2. Defeat the Left using insurgency, when various other freedom fighters failed in fighting Soviets (Poland), Iran (purged), Cuba (disappeared), Iraq (gassed), etc.

    Well, the Founding Fathers tried both ways.

    The first option is the least bloody but has a time component. After some time, the situation alters so that you can no longer use COIN, because you aren’t occupying anything, not your house, and certainly not your nation.

  37. HC Says:

    The immigration issue is very, very simple in essence. America is dominated politically by a coalition, one that crosses the so-called left/right aisle, and consists of social liberals who quite literally _hate_ traditional America, and have a low female fertility rate. They want to import voters.

    Their coalition partners are right wing business interests who want to keep wages low and regulation low and maintain a plentiful supply of cheap scared labor. They don’t have the necessary foresight to realize that by doing so, in the longer term they are slitting their own throats by empowering their partners, who also hate them, to control the system.

    It really is that simple. It’s the exact same coalition, by the way, that backed and continues to back Obamacare. It’s why John McCain and Mitt Romney lost, both were seen by voters as too close to the business wing of the GOP, which is not popular, and both were unwilling to challenge their lefty-wing counterparts in the unofficial alliance.

    This immigration bill is essentially the same one they tried 3 times to pass in 2006 and 2007 (and which cost the GOP control of Congress). The establishment alliance wants it _desperately_. The only way it won’t pass is if enough Republican voters make it clear to enough GOP Senators and Representatives that voting for it is political suicide, no negotation, no second chances.

    It seemed inevitable in 2006 and 2007, too. It’s still not too late, but time is passing.

  38. Don Says:

    Of course not. After all, look at their gigantic contribution to culture in the United States: the low-riding, bouncing automobile. And then there’s their incredible contribution to political dialogue, La Raza, not to mention their culinary triumph of tomorrow’s excrement today, the burrito. Fabulous folks, aren’t they?

    These are cultural flaws, not racial ones. If they eventually assimilate the flaws will go away.

    The problem is lack of assimilation. There are several factors driving this: 1) We don’t push it: in fact our education system pushes a PC view that doesn’t celibrate traditional American culture; 2) Socialism does not drive assimilation; 3) Large numbers of immigrants make it easy to not assimilate; 4) Hispanic pride resists assimilation.

    Aside from that, Mexicans at least have wonderful food. The issue is, they also support big, activist government and they don’t support rule of law in any Anglo-Saxon context.

  39. Don Says:

    Seems to me it’s just vanderleun’s sort of ridicule that Mexican-Americans believe lives in the heart of every Republican. So of course they’ll vote for Democrats instead on that basis alone.

    Gov. Susana Martinez has been saying for some time that the GOP has got to start making personal contact with Hispanics, something they’ve let Democrats dominate.

    There is more to it then that. Hispanics tend to believe in big government and activist government. Historically Spain had absolutist rulers in the form of the Hapsburgs, and absolutist religion in the form of the Catholic faith. The Anglo-Saxon concepts of rule of law and limited government have no real equivelent there. In the early 1800s Latin America gained independence, and copied the US political system, but without the cultural prerequisites that had evolved in Anglo-Saxon culture.

    Consider, when the English founded Jamestown in 1607, they already had a parlament (and had had one for a long time), and after the Glorious Revolution in 1688 that parlament was firmly in charge of taxes and spending, and the English Bill or Rights was created.

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