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Edward Snowden continues on his Grand Tour… — 23 Comments

  1. We’ve always known – and they’ve always known – that we were watching. Three Days Of The Condor?

    What is revealed by Snowden is that Big Brother has arrived, on steroids. Watching US, in every minute way possible.

    Coupled with Napolitano’s bizarre fixation on perceived Obama detractors (religious, right, Southern, gun owners, etc), the buying up of massive amounts of ammo for what should be peaceable govt. entities, the IRS targeting Obama opponents, Obama’s own professed plan to institute a grand ‘civilian security force’ – it’s a damn good thing Snowden has tried to open the lid and let the sunshine in to wake people up before it is too late.

    None of these are small things, and for those who thing what Snowden has done is traitorous, consider what Obama is doing. What using the ORS to go after opponents is. Not to mention, he’s more than happy to throw out his OWN leaks. When it serves his purpose, and we have no way of knowing how ‘truthful’ his leaks are (think Bin Laden).

    One brave 19 yr. old stands up and says, “No.”

  2. I agree. The Snowden matter is a distraction. The real criminality is in DC, and I exempt none of the 3 branches of gov’t.

  3. Of course Snowden is guilty of breaking the law but that is not in dispute. However, being charged with espionage does not appear to be supported by the facts. As of yet, no evidence has emerged that he was acting as a spy for a foreign power.

    That he fled to Hong Kong, then Russia and may flee to Cuba is not prima facie evidence of collusion with America’s enemies, given that fleeing to a country friendly or even neutral to America is certain to result in his imprisonment before he can release any other important materials he may have in his possession.

    That he has not already released those materials is arguably, as much evidence for his desire to do the least harm, while securing the reform needed, as evidence of nefarious motivations upon his part.

    The potential harm Snowden may have done to our National Security must, by any fair-minded assessment, be balanced by consideration of the potential for tyranny these programs present. Especially given the track record of this administration and their behavior so far in blatantly lying about the surveillance that is taking place as we speak.

  4. “I exempt none of the 3 branches of gov’t.”

    Nor do I and as much as it pains me to say, I find myself increasingly in agreement with rickl’s POV, we no longer have a legitimate federal government and increasingly, it is acting as a hostile occupying force.

    The 2014 and 2016 elections will be reflective if not determinative, of this nation’s future.

  5. When I compain about the three branches of government, I mean to emphasize the checks-and-balances has died.
    The Hoeven-Corker immigration “amendment” is 1200 pages- twelve hundred- and will be “available for reading” by the Senators for 72 hours before they vote. That’s by the “opposition” party, as contrasted with the Dems and their Obamacare Bill. Not a spitball’s worth of difference.

  6. Many readers of this blog would call our present government “lawless.” So, allowing that, how do you define treason against a lawless government?

  7. Sounds as if some of you are on the same page as China on this:

    China’s Xinhua news agency, referring to Snowden’s accusations about the hacking of Chinese targets, said they were “clearly troubling signs”.

    It added: “They demonstrate that the United States, which has long been trying to play innocent as a victim of cyber attacks, has turned out to be the biggest villain in our age.”

    Truly funny, in a very sick way.

    And it seems Snowden is on his way to Ecuador.

  8. I agree that to some extent, the checks-and-balances are no longer working. That dysfunction varies by the particular issue and the various coalitions shift per issue. When the checks-and-balances are not working, the Executive branch and a majority of both Congress and the SCOTUS are in effect acting in collusion. And doing so out of shared ideology.

    The immigration bill is a perfect example of that collusion and the number of Senators that vote against it will reflect fairly accurately, the percentage of the Senate that still places loyalty to country ahead of personal or ideological interests.

    SCOTUS is relatively limited in its ability to act as a check and balance upon the other two branches. When Congress refuses to rein in a President who is exceeding his authority and/or facilitating that unlawful behavior, then a majority of Congress are guilty of violating their oath of office.

    If a majority of the public refuses to hold them accountable, then little can legally be done and that majority has the government it deserves.

    Under such conditions, the majority are actively infringing upon the minority’s unalienable rights. Infringement is not however denial.

    When circumstance (which has not yet arrived) where that majority and its agents begin to deny the minority’s unalienable right to life and liberty, then that minority “have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.”

  9. Congress increasingly seems impotent and irrelevant.

    They create federal agencies, which then make their own regulations which are enforced as law. Congress could rein them in, deny them funding, or abolish them outright, but they don’t.

  10. Allowing eighteen-year-olds to vote was a really stupid idea. People who have not worked in higher education have no idea how far things have sunk.

  11. Geoffrey Britain:

    Snowden is not being charged with espionage, he is being charged with certain very specific violations of the Espionage Act rather than a generic “espionage” crime. The word “espionage” is not used in those charges. Nor is he charged with “acting as a spy for a foreign power.” I wrote at some length about this here. And you can read the actual provisions of the Act in question here.

    “Publishes” is enough to be considered a possible violation. And the damage to the US does not have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, either. The information can just be potentially damaging, which classified information (especially classified at the level of the information Snowden revealed) is ordinarily presumed to be. It is defined as potentially damaging if it were released, until proven otherwise. And Snowden did not have to be in the pay or employ of any foreign government nor did he have to give it to a foreign government specifically (although I believe that he in fact did give some information to Hong Kong and China while he was there that was most definitely detrimental to our interests, about our hacking into Chinese computers). So whether or not Snowden would be found guilty if he ever came to trial (I personally think he should, but I also think he will never come to trial), the elements of the charges appear to be present.

  12. Geoffrey Britain, 2:31 pm — “The 2014 and 2016 elections will be reflective if not determinative, of this nation’s future.”

    Unless something pretty unexpected happens, the 2008 and 2012 elections were both reflective and determinative of this nation’s future, the 2010 election notwithstanding.

    Even if the good guys (albeit infested/infected with RINOs) hold the House in 2014, unless something pretty unexpected happens, holding the House in 2014 merely delays what is already reflective and darn determinative of this nation’s future.

    I guess I don’t expect the good guys to prevail in 2016 and beyond, given that our side is practically giving away the game if they insist on admitting all those millions of presently undocumented Democrats. What would be unexpected is our side holding firm.

    Okay . . . stop laughing, will ya?

  13. I’m not laughing MJR. The future is never clear but the strongest 2016 candidate looks like Hilary and the Republican’s are understandably divided between the establishment types and those that take a truly different stance – like the Tea Part or Rand Paul. The problem as I see it is that those in the Republican party that are seeking to actually change the country in the face of new realities are unlikely to get into power so long as the current Keynesian ‘extend and pretend’ is holding up the old order. I don’t think Romney could have dialed back the stimulus to any significant degree had he won. Heck, the Dems may even get away with it, but I don’t think it can last. In fact as long as the stimulus is working, Tea Party policies would probably bring the old order down abruptly. I think the US will have to play out its hand of corrupt regulated capitalism to the end before American’s native abilities will be allowed to rebuild the country. That is when the Tea Party and constitutionalists will come into there own. We have been too rich, too long and our government in DC has become hopelessly corrupt.

  14. Geoffrey Britain,

    I think on this issue, libertarians just need to own that they share common cause with leftists and our international competitors. It happens. It’s not a simple issue.

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/politics/nsa-leaks-us-reaction/index.html

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/23/pelosis-defense-nsa-boos/2450751/

    Regarding the partisan contest, note the end of the USA Today story: “Her remarks criticizing the Republican majority in the House and encouraging powerful women brought applause, cheers and laughs.”

    Leftist discontent with Obama on this or any issue doesn’t mean they’ll ever do less than their best to beat down the GOP and the Right.

  15. Well, well, WELL.

    Things are getting VERY interesting in the court case about Obama’s citizenship. An attorney has come forward with this testimony about a certain Indonesian student getting aid as a foreign citizen to attend Occidental College:

    http://tinyurl.com/mbrtlqo

    Pass it on: the only way to get facts past the Praetorian Media is to flood the zone.

  16. MJR, I somewhat agree, the 2008 and 2012 elections were both reflective and indicative and may, turn out to be determinative of this nation’s future. But if the democrats take back the House in 2014 and then capture it all in 2016, it’s over. The 2014 and 2016 elections have the potential to drive the ‘final nails’ in America’s ‘coffin’.

    Eric,

    “I think on this issue, libertarians just need to own that they share common cause with leftists and our international competitors.”

    I’m sorry, what issue? I don’t follow your line of thinking at all. I can’t think of any issue with which “libertarians share common cause with leftists”. What aspect am I missing?

  17. Geoffrey Britain, 12:02 am — “MJR, I somewhat agree, the 2008 and 2012 elections were both reflective and *indicative* and may, turn out to be determinative of this nation’s future”

    I heartily accept (and approve) your substitution of “indicative” for “determinative”, as a friendly amendment to my motion.

    I like the distinction you are drawing. Good show!

    G’day, mate . . .

  18. Off topic, but Sarah A. Hoyt has written an absolutely terrific post about amnesty: How to learn to stop worrying and shrug off Amnesty.

    Seriously, it’s a must-read.

    She’s an immigrant herself so she can write from that perspective.

    She’s a better American than 3/4 of the people I know in real life.

    She also knows that a collapse is coming. Amnesty will accelerate the process, which may not be a bad thing.

    She talked me down from the ledge. Mostly.

  19. rickl,

    The Hoyt post is a good one. Thanks. There is a lot of wishing and hoping going on, but the grand correction has only been postponed. It will not be long nor soft. Short and sharp with a lost decade or 2 is a better bet.

  20. If we really wanted to punish this Snowden chap, shouldn’t we entreat Russia to keep him, not send him back? I think that would be punishment enough for his “crimes”.

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