Islam, algebra, Nobel prizes, and our PC sensibility
Richard Dawkins has created a bit of a stir by tweeting:
All the world’s Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge. They did great things in the Middle Ages, though.
And when the usual uproar ensued, and someone pointed out the invention of algebra* [see NOTE below] and alchemy by Muslims, Dawkins tweeted in reply, “Indeed, where would we be without alchemy? Dark Age achievements undoubted. But since then?”
For the record, Muslims have received 10 Nobel Prizes to Trinity grads’ 34. And there are indeed a few more Muslims in the world than Trinity grads.
I can’t say I’m familiar with Dawkins, but he’s apparently a scientist who champions Darwin, as well as a proselytizing atheist, if there be such a thing. In other words, he’s an equal-opportunity anti-religionist. Dawkins’ remarks remind me of nothing so much as the flurry caused a few years back when Larry Summers had the temerity to voice the truth that women are dramatically under-represented in the ranks of the mathematical stratosphere and that such a fact needed to be studied scientifically, and the PC feminist world excoriated him for it (see my posts on the subject here and here).
Truth is apparently no defense to such heinous slanders. In fact, truth seems to make it all worse in the eyes of the offended.
And it’s certainly true that the Muslim world has contributed little in recent centuries, other than the refinement of suicide bombing techniques. And before anyone accuse me of anti-Muslim sentiment—I’m well aware that most Muslims are fine people. And the food is fabulous. But the cultures involved (particularly those of the Arab wing) have a great deal of bad stuff in them and no longer encourage intellectual innovation of the type that would lead to Nobel prizes. That’s an incontrovertible fact.
It’s also a fact that, although most Muslims are not terrorists, the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims. That’s another inconvenient fact that happens to be true. If we can’t say it (and it’s getting harder and harder to do so) we can’t begin to do much about it.
This sort of PC reticence (although not about science) seems to have led directly to the military’s failure to call out Nidal Hasan, the Ft. Hood shooter, before he committed his violent acts. Hasan did everything but rent a skywriter to spell out for them what he was planning, and they still couldn’t bring themselves to bust a Muslim officer for fear of being considered bigoted.
The terrible results are well-known. But bad as they were, they are almost nothing compared to the possibilities if this attitude on the part of the non-Muslim West continues. And it seems it will continue. One thing Osama bin Laden got right: we are the weak horse, at least in the psychological sense.
[*NOTE: So, did the Muslims invent algebra? The answer is a bit complex, but it appears to be a modified “yes.” They certainly coined the word algebra, and Arab Muslims contributed a great deal to its development, building on Greek roots and also aided by some Indian players. Later on in the 1600’s Europeans took the ball.]
A similar imbalance has been observed in the number of patents awarded in Muslim versus non-Muslim countries. It is very hard not to draw the conclusion that there is something about modern Muslim culture that rejects modernity. I think it stems from an attitude that the Quran contains all the answers one needs in life. Why study the natural world when all can be explained as “Gods will”?
Truth is raaaaaacist!
Truth is a whitey raaaaaacist.
Here is a list of muslim nobel laureates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_Nobel_Laureates
6 for peace
2 for literature
1 for physics
1 for chemistry
I think of peace and literature as being affirmative action prizes.
Several people who have taken the time to read the “Qur’an”, told me that it does not define Good or Evil. It leaves the definitions up to the local “mullah”.
Is this true?
If it is, that would explain a lot of contradictory behavior.
If one is looking for an understanding of current Darwinian theory of evolution, one can not do better than Dawkins’s ‘The Selfish Gene” and “The Extended Phenotype”. If one is looking for an example of how irrational a scientist can be about religion, one can not do better than his “The God Delusion”.
If one is looking for a more measured discussion of evolution and atheism, I suggest Danniel Dennett’s breaking the spell, although even his account suffers from some lapses in logic.
In general, I think it is an error to think of atheism as the absence of a religion. Atheism can generate the same conviction, intensity, and irrationality as can religion.
Yasser Arafat was certainly one of the most noble of Nobel Prize winners and contributed so much to the betterment of the human condition.
“One thing Osama bin Laden got right: we are the weak horse, at least in the psychological sense.”
We are shackled by PC to our great peril.
The Ministry of Magic’s official position is that Lord Voldemort has not returned and is not responsible for the recent violence! Any student who takes a contrary stance will be subject to discipline.
Basically the Army’s stance in the Hassan case.
The disparity between Muslim scientific accomplishment and the accomplishments of other cultures are much more sensibly explained by the differences in economic systems and the stock of natural resources in most Muslim countries that consists of little more than huge gluts of oil. The development incentives in these countries are radically different than the incentives in the West.
Siding with Dawkins on anything is akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face. The man is the atheist equivalent of Fred Phelps masquerading as an intellectual, and giving a thumbs-up to his assaults on Islam while letting his assaults on Christianity slide is a horrible, horrible ideological game plan.
SGT Caz:
Who’s “siding” with Dawkins? I’m merely pointing out that he is correct about the Nobel Prize paucity among Muslims, and that the PC-crowd is on him for it. As I wrote, he’s an equal-opportunity religion-basher.
“It’s also a fact that, although most Muslims are not terrorists, the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.”
If one third of the world’s population are Muslim and terrorists are only 1% of the Muslim population, that’s about twenty million terrorists scattered around the globe. That 1% is still way too many.
Okay, so the Muslims invented Algebra. So what?
Just as the PC crowd says don’t paint ALL Muslims bad because of a few terrorists; then don’t try to paint ALL Muslims (or their culture) as good because of a few past-history achievments.
Stereotyping works both ways.
Charles:
And quite a few people would not thank them for inventing algebra.
Although I must say I loved algebra.
Churchill on Islam from “The River War”. Still true today.
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan
law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as
a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the
faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion
paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde
force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant
and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising
fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the
strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled,
the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
For Islam’s apologists:
One cannot possibly be so obtuse as to be aware of religious tenets demanding a contempt for women, Jews, Christians, and generic infidels, and believe the dogma wouldn’t result in, and not just respectively, rape, mutilation, forced conversions, and murder. The world is closed to muslims and Islam has closed it.
For Mr. Dawkins’ apologists:
Mr. Dawkins’ atheism is of the militant sort, the kind that makes of it a pretense for hating religion generally, and Christianity particularly. Why anyone should devote so much energy to the most useless of scientific theories is almost beyond me — until I realize its only utility – to this day, it is the only place to hang their theory on; the theory that there is no God because evolution explains everything.
Is Dawkins American or British – will he be charged with hate speech/blasphemy for this, as Mark Steyn and others have been?
parker: You’re being ironic when you say, “Yasser Arafat was certainly one of the most noble of Nobel Prize winners and contributed so much to the betterment of the human condition.” Right?
the Ft. Hood bomber
Umm, shooter. But the point stands.
I R A Darth Aggie:
Thanks for the correction. Will fix.
The disparity between Muslim scientific accomplishment…much more sensibly explained by the differences in economic systems
And sharia dictates that, too. Cause. Effect.
QED
Well algebra is a building block of mathematics, at approximately the same level as the alphabet ranks in the novel “Ulysses”.
But it’s kind of meaningless observation if you ask me. My vector calculus instructor was Muslim, and the engineering world is full of Muslims, so I’m not sure what the truth was he is getting at.
Let’s not forget that Obama got a Nobel Prize — does that count in the Muslim heading, or do we just classify a Nobel Prize as a worthless as a bowl of warm vomit, that’s politicized beyond all recognition? Wasn’t Al Gore also a winner? Not exactly a Mensa candidate either. Nobel Prizes aren’t what they used to be.
Recent biological subsets – chemical studies of DNA base sequences, for example – show that evolution is probably correct on a molecular scale. You can chart the order of appearance of species, estimate the time gap between various emergencies, and place in order relationship among species/genera.
So…evolution turns out to be independent of ANY religion. Which is a whole different discussion with its own pluses and minuses.
BTW, biology based on paleontology is passe…ask a paleontologist trying to land a faculty position.
Southpaw:
Classical Nobel prizes are still Gold Standard in medicine, chemistry, and physics. Literature has its moments – aside from obscure African Epic Poets – while economics is “Too Soon to State”.
Peace Prize is crap, rubbish, a laugher—take your pick.
betsybounds,
Arafat was a bag of pus infected with every plague that has ever laid waste to human life. So yes, my tongue was firmly in my cheek. 🙂
Much of the problem for Muslims and science is that they have an extreme fatalistic belief – Inshallah – Allah willing. They believe man should not try to change Allah’s plan.
Muslim pilots from the ME in training at a major airline training center found it very difficult to grasp the idea of emergency procedures. They were conditioned to believe that if an engine quit it was Allah’s will and carrying out an emergency procedure to save the airplane was against the will of Allah. (Culture matters in the use of technology.) Thus their antipathy to modernity.
On the other hand, most Christians believe that God gave us free will so that we can try, in whatever way we are able, to change our destiny. Thus our acceptance of modernity and technology.
Dawkins is a Brit and as fundamentalist and combative in his faith that there is no God as any Muslim fundamentalist. His proselytizing activities are prima facie evidence that atheism is a matter of faith just like Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc.
Thanks to Paul in Boston for the Churchill quote. I think it describes Islam perfectly.
At every turn, the Arab/ Muslim maths have turned out to be rebranded, restyled versions of earlier Hindu/ Indian insights.
At one time or another, EVERYTHING that the Arabs traded to the West, from the East, was self-accredited — particularly to include ideas.
Admission of eastern sources would’ve been an open invitation for end-runs.
You’ll still run across Muslims claiming that Arabs invented the number zero. It was launched in India.
To the extent math was advanced in Arabia, it was against the tide. Islam is, fundamentally, anti-intellectual. The exact opposite of Judaism, in fact.
}}} That’s an incontrovertible fact.
Racist.
}}} It’s also a fact that, although most Muslims are not terrorists, the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.
Racist’s racist.
}}} The
Racist sexist racist’s racist race-hating misogynist baby eater.
Charlie — I agree with you; but not sure where the global warming prize falls…
blert — who cares who invented 0? lim f(debt) as debt —> infinity = USA
We’re number 1 !!! That’s achievement
“before anyone accuses me of anti-Muslim sentiment–I’m well aware that most Muslims are fine people.”
Are they? Muslims know the truth of their religion. That many are ‘cafeteria’ Muslims, picking and choosing what tenets to practice does not logically absolve them from the condoning of the barbaric practices inherent to their religion. Where are the protests? Anywhere? Where are the articles speaking out against terrorism? Where are the Islamic reform movements in at least, Western nations?
Condoning isn’t active participation but pervasive condoning of violence does permit facilitation of violence.
How committed to our founding principles can Muslims in America actually be when nearly half of Muslim-American citizens believe parodies of Muhammad should be prosecuted criminally in the U.S., and one in eight say the offense is so serious violators should face the death penalty?
How open to assimilation can they be, when their religion unequivocally proclaims it to be their sacred duty and holy obligation to subdue the world? How much more fundamentally opposed to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” can a religious/ideological tenet be, that asserts that every non-Muslim must either be forcibly converted, made into a second class citizen/servant/slave or be killed?
Finally, consider that without exception, serious aggression increases as the Muslim population of a non-Muslim society increases.
No doubt some moderate Muslims are fine people. But most? Were that so, Muslims would not be attacking Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, and of course Jews without one word of protest from all those ‘fine people’. There would not be a 1400 year pattern of violent aggression that is increasing as we speak.
Churchill was right. There is no more retrograde force in the world than Islam.
The sooner the West realizes that the better.
A culture of losers.
They can pump oil from the ground. That’s about it.
Name a Muslim artist of note. An innovative public company. You can’t.
southpaw says, “Nobel Prizes aren’t what they used to be.”
That may turn out to be the understatement of the 21st century! 🙂
Most “Muslim” accomplishments in the sciences (lo those many centuries ago) can be traced to original ideas from Hindu Indians, Zoroastrian Persians, or Christian Byzantines, all of which had far more advanced societies than the tribal savages that came screaming out of the Arabian desert. Various Caliphs did value learning, however, and during their rule, new ideas (like proto-algebra) were adopted and developed. More common, though, were fundamentalist conquerors interested only in war and plunder.
As an aside, most of the Greek classics in geometry, physics, and philosophy were actually translated by Nestorian Christians, who had a major theological, and frequently fatal, beef with the Byzantines and as such, had no problem helping the Muslims, .
Okay, so the Muslims invented Algebra. So what?
They didn’t invent algebra either. Their propaganda ops are still going on about that, though. Bonus points for deceiving entire civilizations on this score for generations.
Algebra, or rather the concept of Zero as a numeral, was first seen in India. After India was conquered and made a slave client state of the Islamic Empire, the scientific products were imported. Just like the Hagia Sophia is now a “mosque” but was actually made by Christians. Just as airplanes and modern tech was made by Westerners, but used by jihadists as weapons.
Islam does not “create” much of anything. They only make it into weapons, claim it as theirs, and enslave the client populations so they can’t say “but you stole our stuff and our women”.
Islam is full of true believers, fanatics, and weak sauce worshippers just like the West is full of Leftist fanatics, priests, con artists, and weak sauce libertines.
If you have ever wondered why that is and why they believe in their junk, ask yourself why only a few people realize that Arabic-Indian numerals first came from India, Islam merely stole it?
If people don’t even know that… why wouldn’t they believe in Islamic Virgin Heaven or the Leftist Utopia?
Mark Steyn once remarked that the IRA and, stretching here, the American patriots, did not kill large numbers of civilians egregiously because, first, they wouldn’t do it, and, second, their support among the less motivated would evaporate at the atrocity.
Muslim terrorists, he said, don’t have to worry about that.
i went to a highschool with 8 nobel prize winners in physics and chemistry…
bet that trumps everything he attended from K to his degrees…
anyway whats happenimg now has a way of makjng converts.. “you can never really go home sgain once you are apart…its never the same comfort…
that should read up to his degrees…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_M%C5%ABs%C4%81_al-Khw%C4%81rizm%C4%AB
Arab Muslim? Not quite.
Most of the names mentioned in Neo’s wiki links are… Persian by descent, Muslim name by right of conquest through their conquerors.
Persia was never Muslim to begin with. Until Islam killed all the Zoroastrians and enslaved the people.
If Muslims can claim to have invented stuff just by conquering the people that created it, then when Islam conquers the US, we can say ISLAM CREATED THE ATOMIC BOMB.
Dawkins was right about Islam, but in a way that a stopped clock is right twice a day
“… as well as a proselytizing atheist”
True again but that’s putting it mildly. Check out some of his other tweets. He’s basically an anti-religious bigot all around.
Where there is a bigot, there’s a will.
Some people here speak of Muslims as being not good because they passively support terrorists and violence.
And yet, many of the same kind of people say their families full of Leftists and Democrats are “good people” because they don’t actively support Leftist evil….
Inconsistency much?
Perhaps it is easier for humans to condemn faceless foreigners that speak gobblegook. When it comes to condemning their own family to hell or the gallows… it’s somehow different, isn’t it.
That may be human nature. But it’s also something else. Something very ugly.
Trinity College has won more Nobels than almost anyone or anything, as someone will tell you as soon as you walk through the gate there. It is an impressive building, so it’s worth a visit in spite of that.
Richard Dawkins should be best known for inventing the term “meme”. It was not originally used to describe entertaining pictures of cats, but the basis of a theory that culture, like life, is genetic. Dawkins is that fabled philistine who thinks Hamlet is just a lot of well known quotations strung together to make a play.
I edited a hard science book not long ago, dealing with the genetics of brain defects.
Something else that never gets discussed was staggering to see: example after example, studied group after studied group, were Moslems. This is on account of their entrenched habit of marrying their first cousins — birth defects and lower IQ are rampant problems.
Inbred, in a word.
Oh, that book? was published by a FIRMLY leftwing academic press.
“At one time or another, EVERYTHING that the Arabs traded to the West, from the East, was self-accredited – particularly to include ideas.”
“The Jeep is made in Willys-Overland, USSR!”
/Kommissar out
Twitter?
Someone explain to me why I should use this?
Seems to me a mechanism to communicate with sheep; or sheep to communicate with each other? 140 characters? Wow.
i don’t facebook either.
You might find this article on the myth of the Islamic golden age interesting.
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=21117
I’ve never understood the logical point in touting historical Islamic science anyhow. Let’s be the most generous and assume a past Islamic golden age of science and culture; now tell me, why does this entitle the Muslims to colonize the whole world and install shariah everywhere in the present? That’s simply a logical fallacy.
Also, if we assume the truth of an historical Islamic golden age of science, it makes the situation now worse, not better: It means the Muslim world of today is backward not because it is incapable, but because it is unwilling, or more accurately, so obsessed with implementing its imperialistic program and blaming the outside world for their failures that they devote no effort to scientific and inventive progress.
And there’s the issue of marrying cousins over multiple generations, following the practice of their religion’s founder. That doesn’t help things either.
SGT Caz,
Dawkins is a buffoon but at least he isn’t a cowardly hypocrite like those other professional atheists who all of a sudden call for “respecting religion” when it comes to the one that doesn’t deserve any.
Neo,
As for most Muslims not being terrorists, I believe that’s true if you’re thinking of active jihadism; but the ones not active in jihad are supporters of it, under the mantle of “fighting against oppression” (“oppression” being Islamspeak for “lack of shariah rule,” much as “racism” and “fascism” are Marxspeak for “refusal to go with the Communist agenda”).
I think Islam did come up with algebraic formulas to explain the circular orbits of the planets. Mr. Newton put an end to that; however, the real question is why did Islam stop making scientific progress? I’d write more, but tomorrow I have to attend a HR meeting on why I’m a sexist, racist, and homophobic. Thank G** we don’t have this problem. (I apologize for mentioning ***).
Hell, Bronx High School of Science has more Nobel Prize winners than the whole Muslim world. (I don’t count the “Peace Prize” as a measure of anything.)