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Either/or: Ronan Farrow’s father — 24 Comments

  1. CV:

    I just added another photo above the others. The resemblance is even more striking. Take a look.

  2. HEY! leftist liberal morons…
    maybe THAT’s why people made blood distinctions

    but this is just the ‘Westermarck effect’

    The mental resistance to conceiving a desire for one’s siblings is so strong that it even extends to other persons to whom one was close during childhood. It has been shown, for instance, that children who grow up together in Israeli kibbutzim are not generally attracted to each other.33 The ‘Westermarck effect’, then, is well-established: children who grow up in close proximity are not, as a rule, sexually attracted to one another later in life.34 Hence this psychological inhibition is not a contingent fact, but a basic part of human nature. It bears
    noting that this is true not just of human beings: it has been shown conclusively to be true of many animals, from swans to apes.

    note that whenthey make policy they know these things that most dont, so most dont see the point of the policy, but the excuse given only.

    ie. he was raised NOT to make such distinctions so that he cant tell the difference between a blood taboo vs no taboo

    in fact. how is any of that taboo in the liberal sphere?

    think how contradictory he is?
    and the whole reason is that if he doesnt go after him, what happens to his career and desire to be in the public light?

    ie. he has defined himself this way…

    why not read
    Incest and Liberal Neutrality
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9760.2011.00413.x/abstract

    Yet the attempt to find universal principles originates precisely in our bewilderment in the face of the radically divergent customs of different cultures. In what follows, it will be argued that a near-universal human institution–the prohibition of incest–is incompatible with an important version of contemporary liberal thought.

    so who is wrong here?

    liberal woody allen?

    or liberal moralist who does not know what his own tenants are?

    what you haev here is a case of i am for it until i am a victim of it, then i understand, so i oppose it

    ergo ipso facto… young liberals are idiots who convert later in life from such “doctrines” of living (which they oppose if christian or others).

    The argument proceeds in four steps. First, I will briefly sketch a notion of liberal neutrality based on the (neutral) justification of policies, that is, the idea that the reasons given for legislation must not be based on comprehensive conceptions of what constitutes a good life. Second, I will consider whether possible harm to the population as a whole (for example, genetic impoverishment) would constitute a valid argument for the prohibition of incest. Third, I will ask whether possible physical harm to the immediate offspring of incestuous relationships could form the basis of such an argument. Fourth, I will consider whether the possibility of social stigmatisation could be a sufficient ground for prohibiting incestuous unions.

    notice that in the liberal doctrine, there is absolutely no consideration for the children who are not born in such, but part of such!

    by the way, i wonder if the arguments against divorce and remarraige now resonate differently with this person? and being a victim of it, do they like the ease with which it was possible, and the ideology that promotes such warped Self Actualizations?

    Leon Kass, for instance, has claimed that there are six phenomena–necrophilia, cannibalism, and incest among them–that all sound persons (a notion that needs to be discussed later) intuitively consider to be
    revolting.

    want to guess what he left out?
    why did he not list the six?

    he goes on to warp john stuart mills:
    According to the most traditional version of liberalism, for example, the harm principle enunciated by John Stuart Mill is paramount: only actions that harm others may be prohibited

    and the liberal cant see the harm when the point may block their goal. so, since the goal is to promote this, they will HAVE to ignore the ills that stem from it.

    how else did they get rid of bastardy. now with blood no longer a matter, how can incest matter?

    Nussbaum argues that this is self-evidently the case, and claims that a daughter who is a minor cannot reasonably be considered to consent (in the strict sense) to sexual intercourse with her father.

    But Nussbaum does not consider the obvious objection that the daughter may be an adult, and may give what she considers to be her informed and mature consent to the act.

    ah… see? selective points..

    Soon Yi fit that, and technically did not even fit the definition of incest as there was no blood relation closer than first cousins…

    ah. but now we are in the concept of nature. he is talking that his nature say that this is immoral.

    but he has no nature, he is a tabula rasa, a blank slate upon which society writes.

    so now, who is more progressive?
    woody or is issue?

  3. First things that crossed my mind:

    Ol’ Blue Eyes was well into his grandpa years at the time of Ronan’s birth. Just looked it up and, yep, he was 72 in 1987, the year Ronan was born.

    And, two, this will probably make many folks less sympathetic toward Mia with regard to Woody’s behavior with Soon-Yi.

  4. Considering how similar behavior by Roman Polanski and Michael Jackson has been shrugged off by Hollywood (assuming that the abuse charges by Ronan’s sister Dylan are true), I’m actually pleased that Mia and Ronan have not shied away from discussing this. It’s especially refreshing that they are so blunt and speak with such moral clarity.

  5. Steve:

    I actually read Mia Farrow’s autobiography a while ago. I was curious to learn what a woman who was married to Sinatra, Previn, and (almost) to Allen would say about her story. It actually was quite interesting, although Farrow pretty much whitewashed or ignored her own wrongdoings (for example, Previn being married when she got involved with him).

    Regrading Sinatra, though, it was pretty clear from her book, and from other details I know about Sinatra’s life, that he had a habit of continuing to be in touch with the women he’d loved and married, and even trying to help them through crises (Ava Gardner was another). So perhaps this is part of the reason Farrow said that about him. In addition, who knows what she knows about Ronan’s parentage, and perhaps if she thought he was Sinatra’s son this would also strengthen her feelings for Sinatra, as you suggest.

  6. “And, two, this will probably make many folks less sympathetic toward Mia with regard to Woody’s behavior with Soon-Yi.”

    NOTHING could make me more sympathetic to what amounted to virtual incest to me.

  7. It should be simple enough to determine. If he’s a Sinatra he will have the same Y chromosome, exactly, as Frank Sinatra Jr. Or at least close enough through the standard 64 markers that no mutation should be detected.

    Woody Allen, assuming he is “really” Jewish and Sinatra is not really, could still easily have the same broad type of Y as Sinatra, say if they were both E or J; but if they are not even roughly the same type, then there’s no chance, as in say R1b for Sinatra and J or E for Allen, or alternatively E or G for Sinatra, and say R1a for Allen.

    Obviously If Ronan doesn’t have Allen’s Y, he’s not Allen’s son, whoever’s son he might be.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

    http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/italy.pdf

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

    If however, after genetic testing he is found to be Frank Sinatra’s son beyond any reasonable doubt he might do well to ask the Sinatra family for recognition. They would probably be glad to have him.

    If he’s Woody Allen’s, then maybe he needs to give his Dad a stern talking to.

  8. Hollywood is the culture which they would like to force the US under. And from an Islamic perspective, it’s pretty bad on their end as well seeing America=Hollywood.

    Well, it’s not any better here at least.

  9. From a summary of the Vanity Fair article:

    When [the author] asks Nancy Sinatra Jr. about Ronan’s being treated as if he were a member of her family, Sinatra answers in an e-mail, “He is a big part of us, and we are blessed to have him in our lives.”

    Sure sounds as if she knows for a fact that he’s Sinatra’s son.

  10. Not knowing anything about these people, I looked it up and found that Sinatra was married to the widow of one of the Marx brothers at the time of Ronan’s birth. Barbara Sinatra is still living and is Sinatra’s widow. By public accounts they were very happy and it was his longest marriage. Farrow’s hinting seems rather cruel at this time.

  11. kit:

    Good point. I hadn’t done the math about the years of his marriage. But Mia Farrow never was one to think of the wives in her own amours with married men (Previn being the most glaring example).

    Interestingly, I just learned from Wiki that Sinatra was a political changer.

  12. “And Ronan seems to have a sense of humor; in reaction to Farrow’s news, he tweeted, “Listen, we’re all *possibly* Frank Sinatra’s son.””

    Well, considering the unknown number of the “Baby Boom” Generation who were sired while their parents listened to some Sinatra song or another (probably in the millions), Ronan may have a point…

    … which would make Sinatra the biggest “sirer” of peoples since Genghis Khan, in the metaphorical sense…

  13. Ronan looks a lot like Grandpa Farrow, I think.

    Kids often do look more like their grandparents than their parents. I know in my own family that my younger brother didn’t much resemble either of my parents, but was the spitting image of our maternal grandfather.

  14. Yeah. Hey, my dad was very “gregarious,” but none of my relatives, or anyone looking at me and photos of my dad has ever doubted where I came from.

    If the kid’s got even half the talent, or intellect, or cunning of Frank, he’ll be fine. Hope he produces something worth remembering.

    Enough. Next topic.

  15. Google “young Frank Sinatra” photos and toggle back and forth with the pics of Ronan and there’s not much doubt.

  16. Allen’s eyes are brown. Unless he has a blue-eyed parent, genetics suggests Soon-Yi is not Ronan’s stepmother.

  17. Trimegistus:

    Wrong.

    Allen’s parents could both have brown eyes and yet one or both could have a gene for blue eyes, passed to Woody, who could have passed it on to Ronan. In other words, the blue-eyed gene could be recessive in Woody Allen’s ancestors going back many generations without being expressed, and yet he could still have the gene and have passed it on to Ronan, along with a blue-eyes gene from Mia.

    I happen to think Woody Allen is not his father, though.

  18. Remember how when the little guy was born he was totally passed off as Woody’s, who famously named him “Satchel” after Satchel Paige, and what a proud father he was? And remember those accusations -which seem kind of vague and hazy- about how Woody was “obsessed” with little Satchel, how he’d disappear with him for hours at a time? And now Mia says she and Frank never really left each other.

    To me that all contextualizes it.

    Woody’s “obsession” was his growing realization that Satchel was not his, and that he had essentially been cuckholded. Running off with Soon-Yi was payback.

  19. Frank would have been in his 70s when this whelp was sired.

    In which case: my hat is off to you, Frankie. I’m 50 now, and I only fantasize about shagging an 18 y.o. And if you were still accomodating Ms Farrow when you were in your 70s – and still capable of impregnating her – wow.

    But my first thought on seeing his wikipedia photo was wow, Steve McQueen, but he was already dead.

  20. Btw, a cuckoo bird is something that lays its eggs in the nests of other birds.

    The origin of the phrase “cuckhold” made a lot more sense to me then.

    What I also found strange was that more than 50 species of birds in Europe are like that. With only 3 species in the Americas that does it. Something in the air perhaps that fights against being a parasite?

  21. What’s the matter with the Sinatra daughters and Barbara Sinatra? Ronan is a spittin’ image of Frank. Ronan looks more like Frank than any of Frank’s other children.

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